Plagiarism and misinformation on YouTube

[@Danny.Hatcher]

Thank you for watching. Comments are welcomed and encouraged - what do you think? I heart comments I have seen, and reply to those KZbin notifies me off. FEEDBACK: - No clear 'stakes' or 'story' @Mattman993 @FrancoDFernando - Too many creator quotes. Not 'original' @agenerichuman - 1:18:06 Citation error: Should be 77: Answers in Progress (2023) what school didn't teach you about money. @generalshrooms KEY COMMENTS: - Professional codes of conduct of ethics, codes should be added. @shayan-et-al

[@tatsuuuuuu]

you're asking him to provide a url to videos that were taken down after or sometimes in the process of him making his own video. he had to download them knowing and anticipating they had a short shelf life so that he could later edit his video. I don't think the onus is on him to re-upload. at worst a internet archive link but videos are often culled from those snapshots.

[@couch9416]

1. You can still provide a title and stuff even when it's deleted 2. The videos he mentioned often were still online

[@tatsuuuuuu]

@@couch9416 fair enough but I really do think hbomber isn't the villain here. he did an alright job sourcing. could it be better, yes it always can. but perfection is the enemy of good and Educational Science isn't scoring any points here I think.

[@Danny.Hatcher]

I tried not to paint him as the victim. The intention was to point out areas for improvement.

[@Retri51]

When referencing something in the internet (video, blog, etc) I believe it should be also made explicit date of access, because they are more and more open to changes

[@panconqueso9195]

A lot of people also use internet archive/archive today screenshots

[@gabrielmarciu69]

18:40 What Hbomber said *is* accurate. Fifa 16 and 18 have women's national teams in them, there are no football clubs, part of any national league in the game. Case in point, you cannot play as a manager of a women's football club in the game because there are no women's football clubs in the game and no leagues to play in. The bing search you show on screen itself proves this because, while the assistant answers "yes" it goes on to speak only about how you can play with 12 national teams. Quote taken from EA Sports' official website: "Play as women’s club teams for the *first time* in EA SPORTS FIFA history as the Barclays Women’s Super League, Division 1 Arkema, National" Women's Soccer League, and UEFA Women's Champions League come to FIFA 23" No women's leagues prior to fifa 23.

[@Danny.Hatcher]

Thank you. It was my misunderstanding 😁

[@dannydonnelly8027]

@@Danny.Hatcher​​⁠​⁠I think your video was mostly very good, especially when you talk about how things are currently handled on KZbin and ways it could be better. The Fifa comment and you calling Harry’s comment misinformation stood out to me, and I wanted to comment on it, but I knew someone else must have. I am glad that you acknowledged that you had misunderstood things, but in this very video you talk about how the right thing to do when you make mistakes if fully retract them so that they do not continue to spread. I am a bit disappointed then that I had to scroll as far down as I did to find you acknowledge this mistake, instead of putting something in the description, or pinned comment. I don’t necessarily think this is a big enough deal to necessitate editing the video itself, but I do think that more visible acknowledgement of this accidental misinformation would be nice. Not so much because this specific issue is a huge deal, but because it is easy to spot and clear acknowledgement of this mistake will go a long way to demonstrating that you take seriously the very thing this video is about.

[@electricVGC]

I think there's a weird tension between how the internet feels about copyright and plagiarism and the baseline of educating. Most teaching by teachers in schools would just be plagiarism under the internet standard.

[@FrancoDFernando]

Hi hi, just as a reference from where I’m coming from, in my line of work I’m constantly having to source and package things up in a concise story where C-suite would understand what my point is immediately. Just a few criticisms: I think you should start off your video with the point you’re trying to make (note: not your actual idea that you presented at the end). Without a proper intro, your style of conveying information by constantly cutting to other videos to quote them may seem jarring. ‘Although hbomberguy’s video is about plagiarism, it is also about misinformation.” I think you should have led with this because I think it’s the point of the video? It kind of just makes splitting your first sections prior to the misinformation section rather confusing given the title of the video. Which leads me to my second point, while it’s commendable that you’re very rigorous with your sources and you make it very explicit that you’re quoting someone by almost always showing the video, I really think you should fill in more of your video essays with your own opinions. You do this a little better in your other videos, but this video was made up mostly of other videos. I get that is part of the point of the video, but it perhaps wouldn’t be so jarring if you 1) didn’t use so many examples to make your point in each section and/or 2) hint at your recommendation in each section (but that can get repetitive). Let us see more of your perspective, you make good points! Next, since there are so many sections, each section would be best started up by summarizing the point of the section, potentially sprinkling in how it has to do with the larger point of the video. This could also help with my previous criticism. Also, I recommend that you call back to your overall point prior to your recommendation, which leads me to my next point. I think your recommendation needs to call back to your previous sections more. How would it solve some of the specific issues you brought up throughout your video? You could potentially put your recommendation right before the misinformation section right after you say that hbomberguy’s video being also about misinformation and then talk about how it would help minimize or solve the issues you bring up in each section (again, it could be repetitive, but I’m sure there’s a way around that). If I had to sum everything up, I think your video is lacking in a clear overarching narrative that is consistent through every section. I believe what you’re maybe trying to say is plagiarism can lead to misinformation? Again, it’s not very clear. The way the video is currently laid out, it isn’t clear how your recommendation would actually solve the larger issue of misinformation. I was taught that you should tell people what you’re going to tell them, tell them, then tell them what you just told them lol. I’m saying it in a cheeky way, but you get the idea. Let me know your thoughts!

[@Danny.Hatcher]

Thank you. My intention wasn't to 'tell people' things rather 'round up' points in the discussion exposing opportunities for thought. An overarching narrative will be something I use in future.

[@interferingpanda]

complaining that you can't find a deleted video is absurd. the video IS the evidence. it has the person himself with his own face and words. youtubers delete content all the time. once someone downloads the video and the creator has deleted it there's no way to show you where it is. What good would a screenshot showing that a video was deleted do you ? This video is absolute nonsense.

[@Danny.Hatcher]

I am not sure what part you are referring to. If a video is deleted I agree showing a screenshot saying it was deleted isn't that useful, but sourcing the date, title, and author still helps add context. On screen notification of deleted content would also help for interpreting what is said. Videos can be manufactured quite well now, so transparency of used content is something I think will help address misinformation.

[@ordinarryalien]

Your comment is absolute nonsense.

[@icedcat4021]

This video lacks a point that justifies the length. I'm 27 minutes in, and you've only repeated hbomber's points and said that he should've had a quote doc. You jump from point to point based on what videos you have. It reminds me of Daily Dose of Internet. Tangentially related videos strung together with a few sentences of commentary. Except it's just people saying plagiarism bad over and over again.

[@acreativename2781]

He made this vid to farm views with hbombers name, not because he actually wants to combat "mIsInFoRmAtIoN" lol

[@dogeboithedoomslayer]

I like how you say this as if hbomberguy’s video being 4 hours long is fine lol. He could have cut at least three examples no one cares about.

[@acreativename2781]

@@dogeboithedoomslayer The whole 4 hours were interesting and entertaining. This isn't, sorry :)

[@elor1e]

The quoted statement at 11:10 is interesting and should be viewed carefully because it might be true for some disciplines, but most certainly not for all, e.g. in humanities or math a lot of old sources might still be very relevant.

[@generalshrooms]

Minor mistake on the clip at 1:18:06, the source text went back to (66), colion's video

[@Danny.Hatcher]

Ah good catch! Thank you.

[@Mattman993]

Interesting. Your title definitely hit the clickbait spot for me, as I enjoyed hbomb’s video. I’m actually watching though (not too far in, no spoilers) and it seems like you’ve got some legitimate questions and things to say. One real issue that I’ve had (and other commentators, evidently) is that your lack of a clear thesis statement or introduction leaves the reader with the task of interpreting you POV early on. I’ll be honest, I was primed to believe that this was some contrarian nonsense cashing in on the sudden community fascination with this topic (not naming names, just an observation that this topic is suddenly everywhere). Not a criticism per se, just describing my experience with your video early on. Will probably reply under this when I have more things to say.

[@Danny.Hatcher]

Yes. Many videos have 'stakes' or a 'story' to tell. My intention here was more of a 'round up' of things I have seen which potential solutions. Thanks for the feedback!

[@Demonreached]

New subscriber here! Would you mind putting your youtube video sources for this video into a playlist for easy viewing?

[@Danny.Hatcher]

Not all sources are KZbin videos. There are blogs and academic articles which KZbin doesn't accept in playlists.

[@Demonreached]

@@Danny.Hatcher lol I am aware not all your sources are youtube videos, and that you can't add outside sources to a playlist. That is why I requested only the KZbin videos be compiled into a playlist.

[@Shayan-et-al]

I think an important part of this conversation is how these issues are approached in different sectors. What I felt not discussed much here, is the mention of professional codes of ethics, codes of conduct, professional associations, and regulatory and licensing bodies, both governmental and independent institutions with regards to, well, professionals; educators, journalists, physicians, academics, and others. Many professions are treated as self-regulating bodies without much governmental involvement. Malicious behaviors and destructive practices carry professional consequences, disciplinary hearings, license suspensions, rebuttals, public denouncement, etc. At least in medical school now, students are reminded a lot about what they say online, how it reflects the profession, the consequences of irresponsible behavior online while being a professional vs private behavior, etc. In our program it included spreading misinformation as unprofessional conduct, too. So far it seems the "self-regulatory" function on this platform and other content-creator spaces is perhaps just dramatube? and callouts? which come to think of it, is kind of the same as the regulatory bodies do, in a way. Jest aside, these are pretty much parts of a maturing guild and platform. I think there is value in discussing these in your video. And maybe a little less emphasis on johnny harris and veritasium. a bit more on tom nicholas, but that's my opinion. Also, I appreciate the effort you put into including a pretty decent collection of sources here. Having regulatory bodies or professional associations for a broad platform, while balancing individual liberties and creative choices is definitely challenging.

[@elor1e]

I am wondering: How many sources would be an appropriate amount to be put into the video description instead of a source doc before it gets too much?

[@elor1e]

as in short reference in the video, to pinpoint the context and a longer reference list in the description.

[@Danny.Hatcher]

Ooh good question! Maybe 'pillar' sources could be included in the description...

[@realgouravverma]

You have definitely put a lot of effort into this video. Appreciate that. But I think you just started the video abruptly with fast pace. You should have taken 5min to set the context in detail about the story behind this video, why it is matter and something like that so that it will be more easier for people to have good start in understanding. In short your content is high quality. You need to work on storytelling a little more so that what is in your mind and research could reach to the audience's mind as well with the right context.

[@zer0harts]

i understood the context and the beginning just fine, not every video needs a 10 minute loredump, infact i'd say most dont need them, so thats more a personal preference for you and not an actual critism just so you understand the differance if you watched the hbomberguy video you'll understand what this guy is talking about right away this isnt some storytime video or something, its pointing out the hypocrisies and problems hbomberguy laid in the video for everyone else to follow, and his own issues with sourcing, which is what he harps on about for 4 hours

[@Danny.Hatcher]

What would you want to see at the start of the video that wasn't there? The topic/story is hbomberguy's plagiarism video and sourcing which relates to misinformation later on... If you are looking for an overview in the introduction, do the chapters not say enough?

[@realgouravverma]

@@zer0harts Actually it is the opposite. People who are going through this topic already don't need the actual context and can continue the video but not everyone. And by story I didn't mean the bed time story. It is a way of presentation and necessary part of every content which make things memorable for long term. We humans drive through stories and that's why we able to remember even childhood memories. And context plays an important role in stories because it gives ideas to our brain or mind that how we want to organise the upcoming information into our mind. So yes for 2hr video spending 5-10min for context setting is not a big amount of time. It will clearly help people to understand, organise and use the information in better way.

[@realgouravverma]

@@Danny.Hatcher Firstly I don't know why the person who commented above talking to me in a way that I did that comment to target you at personal level. I gave a point that I felt would make your video better. I like your content that's why I watch your videos (also obsidian videos). To answer your question I want you to setup the stakes of the topic of your video so that audience will also value and concern with the topic the same way you do and then start the real content so that audience will follow the information with better attention.

[@zer0harts]

@@realgouravverma don't think you understood what i'm actually trying to tell you and are taking it as a personal attack instead this video has all the context it needs and literally doesnt need him spending 5-10 minutes explaining what he is about to explain, thats what im telling you that's it

[@pan2aja]

1 hour 56 minute ? I will wait for comment section to give a clue what this video is all about

[@Danny.Hatcher]

The timestamps should help give you an overview 😁

[@cartilagehead]

@@Danny.Hatcherthose tell us nothing, really. What is your thesis?

[@crackyyrules5]

I find this video interesting, and I'm still working through it. I think it's good to try and aim for higher-quality citations, but really, the problem is people don't enjoy reading anymore. This is the result of overschooling replacing education. You can improve citations all you want, but it'll still just allow people to not read the sources and be content that the things they're hearing are accurate. I don't know the solution myself, although it is something I'm working on, but the problem is connected to the education system killing passion for learning and reading.

[@MeButOnTheInternet]

theres quite a lot of negativity in this comment section so i do want to say that you do a good job as a presenter, and the editing and presentation of the whole video is nice for such a small creator. small tweaks to the presentation of the content would make the world of difference to its understandability

[@Danny.Hatcher]

🙏 I am learning with each video. Thank you!

[@SmarkAngel]

I LOVE Hbomberguy and the most frustrating thing about the source stuff is it looked like he was going to start using stronger sourcing in the Vaccine video.

[@triforce42]

This is a great video. I hope it performs well. If it doesn't, you should experiment with breaking it up into several parts.

[@communistcommissar]

Lets go! We got ge rat!

[@aweirdwombat]

This video is weird. From what I've seen, it's mostly clips of other people, people you don't even bother to name when speaking, like your churning this out too quickly to have them ready. You barely add any original ideas and you jump from topic to topic with very little through line, like you've got a lot of clips you want to use and you are trying to fit them all in. Citing them doesn't make this better, nor does introducing the erroneous idea that everything is plagiarized. Real essays and scientific papers are not like this. I know. I've worked in academia. You're supposed to cite the minimum to make your point, usually putting things in your own words to show you understand the topic. But most importantly you add your own thoughts and your thoughts should be driving the content, not other people's words. Your channel name also screams scam. There's nothing educational or scientific about this content.

[@Danny.Hatcher]

Thanks for your thoughts. The idea was to quote creators rather than paraphrase them in this video. I am curious why 'educational science' screams scam.

[@dogeboithedoomslayer]

I like how you just slander him in your comment based on his name. Average hbomberguy fan.

[@interferingpanda]

you complain about lack of sources to videos but then you yourself don't give sources. you give some vague video name but no urls and you just put a question mark near the citation. these are videos you are using in your content and you aren't providing any proper citations or urls and then you spend most of the video complaining that he doesn't do it when you didn't do it yourself. You literally provide a video about proper URLS as citations for youtube videos .. and don't provide a citation. You don't even show a screenshot of the title. You just stick some words over it but you have two titles. Which is the correct one ? Which is even a title ? Where's the URL ? You complain about lack of URLs and citations in descriptions but then you don't provide any either. What an absolute hypocrite

[@zer0harts]

he literally has the sources linked in the description, it's the first one calm down buddy you'd think this guy shot your dog or something with how you're coming at him, what are you even mad about?

[@pissyellow614]

He actually included the full links to all the referenced sources in the description, like he stated in the video. It's on the first line of the description.. You shouldn't have any trouble finding them as well because they're organized.

[@Somebodyherefornow]

and they use...bing AI????

[@ordinarryalien]

Jesse, what the hell are you talking about?

[@Danny.Hatcher]

Sorry if the citation number, author, year, and title on screen doesn't suit your preference. I hope you have found the source doc linked at the top of the description as other commenters have mentioned so you can explore my research. Have a great day 😁

[@Lordgrayson]

Glad to see someone challenging Hbomberguy on his video, he has always struck me as selectively lazy when it comes to video research, especially when he has some kind of bias

[@rtrslimjim]

I respect all the work it took you to make this video, but your complaints are dumb and useless