Planer EXTRACTION HACK + Extraction Upgrades

I installed a new 2hp HVLP extractor recently but the results for clearing chips at the planer thicknesser were very disappointing! In this video I run a few experiments to improve things significantly! Also I compare if ducting an extractor to outside really makes a difference to airflow! And I explain how further changes could affect performance of the system.
Setting Up Two Stage Extraction: • Two Stage Dust Extract...
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[@RagnBoneBrown]

Setting Up Two Stage Extraction: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5_cqYKgmcl3qpY 10mm Weather Stripping amzn.to/3t4qQ1z (Amazon UK) geni.us/qDH9k (Amazon Worldwide) Anemometer Airflow Metre amzn.to/3uzCeCR (Amazon UK) geni.us/zmzrYg (Amazon Worldwide) Air Quality Monitor amzn.to/483qWFp (Amazon UK) geni.us/uvLVe (Amazon Worldwide) 🔨 MY TOOLS 🔨 For links to the tools I use, plus some of my favourite consumables, finishes and more see links below. As an Amazon associate I may earn from qualifying purchases UK affiliate store: www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ragnbonebrown US affiliate store: www.amazon.com/shop/ragnbonebrown 🤝 HELP SUPPORT THE CHANNEL 🤝 Support with KZbin channel membership: kzbin.info/door/VyE_6jEtVZGmYGXtUOL5FQjoin Support with Patreon: www.patreon.com/ragnbonebrown Support with PayPal paypal.me/ragnbonebrown Shop With Amazon using my affiliate link: geni.us/iWD3K 💰 SHOP 💰 Etsy: www.etsy.com/uk/shop/KeithBrownMaker teespring.com/stores/rag-n-bone-brown-merch 🎧 WORKSHOP BANTER PODCAST 🎧 kzbin.info Also available on Spotify, Apple, Google and most other podcast platforms 🔗 LINKS: 🔗 Website: www.ragnbonebrown.com Facebook: facebook.com/ragnbonebrown Instagram: @ragnbonebrown Twitter: twitter.com/ragnbonebrown Email: [e-mail] Second KZbin Channel (non woodwork videos): kzbin.info

[@henriaaltonen6870]

Nice to see you got extraction issue resolved. Seems to me that plainer machine was probably originally designed to use normal planer knives. Then it was later adapted to use spiral head which caused the fundamental issue. Shame that manufacturer did not fix this. It would have been very easy to them. It is sad that even when we buy expressive machines they sometimes have flaws right from the factory :(

[@RagnBoneBrown]

That's a good point, you could be right 👍

[@rickmerina3045]

One thing I’ve noticed is that the rotation of your cyclone is opposite that of your fan/blower which creates a bunch of turbulence for the air to change direction 180deg. I just went through this with my own very similar setup to yours and it made a huge difference.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thanks I see what you mean, but I don't see a way of resolving it?

[@rickmerina3045]

The most cost effective way would be to get a different cyclone separator like the Oneida that has the cyclone inlet on the opposite side of what you currently have. I actually had to go from the Oneida style to the style you have due to my motor rotation. You might also try lengthening the distance between the cyclone and the motor and switching to solid pipe.

[@Jez-m2d]

I have the same model and experienced the same chip problem when planing. Will definitely try this out. Thanks

[@francoisfouche2568]

Nice upgrades to your shop !! The only insight I can give is based on what I found on my planer extraction, obviously not the same planer as I am based in New Zealand. Towards the end of the video I see the grey 4" pipe along the wall to which the flex hose connects. I would consider shortening that pipe to alleviate the two very sharp bends (S-shape) of your flex hose. I found a big improvement on airflow along straighter pipes. Keep up the good work !! F

[@RagnBoneBrown]

It's a good idea but the dust hood pivots in to thicknesser mode so it needs the extra length 👍

[@andyc972]

Glad you managed to find a solution that works well enough for you Keith, what a rabbit hole that turned out to be, but you got there in the end, I'm sure others will find this useful ! I've been trying to encourage my Dog to exhaust outside, but that's a whole different problem ! 😷😉

[@RagnBoneBrown]

😂

[@BischBaschBosch]

Nicely done mate. I'll give it a try on mine. Weird that, although I get a build up when planing, I'd have to do like 10 large boards to get what you were getting from one. And my extraction is shite by comparison. Strange. Would still benefit from your fix I think. I've used some fairly fancy planers over the years, with industrial extraction and all would create some level of debris still. Reckon you've got it about as good as can be expected mate.👍

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thanks Stew that's really good to know. Yeah definitely give it a try and let me know how you get on? It's got me thinking that I might start weather stripping some of the gaps around my table saw cabinet too!!

[@BischBaschBosch]

@@RagnBoneBrown I used a similar stuff as a seal on the shroud/box cover for my tablesaw funny enough. I used the foam rubber floor strip stuff - the stuff that goes on top of joists receiving concrete fibre slabs.

[@paulvickers1796]

Merry Christmas Keith and family from Down Under mate, hope you had a nice first enjoyable family Christmas. We look forward to your 2024 videos.

[@davidcolin6519]

I think that the bigger ducting would probably help a lot, but one thing you may not have thought about is the drag caused by the angles and flexihose. I really know very little about aerodynamics, most of my experiences have been with filtration systems for aquaria and pools, but the basic theory must be applicable. I would aim to have any ducting following much more gently curves and keep the flexihose to the minimum possible. I sduspect that having a separate connection for the two positions on the planer/thicknesser would also result in s significant reduction in losses. Obviously, all of these things also depend on how and where you position the machinery involved.

[@EvanDunville]

Very interesting results! Your solution to the planer issue was excellent. I like to hear the testing results too. I exhaust outside but it's very interesting to see how little that affects the performance.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thank you very much! I would like to duct outside just to free up more space on the wall but I worry I'd upset my neighbours 👍

[@PabloBD]

Congratulations on the improvement! looks like a good hack that can be translated to many similar cases

[@HamishScottWilson]

Nice have same planer and although I don’t get as much build up, as I have a shorter run and no cyclone, I reckon this will be a nice addition. Thanks for experimenting.

[@MCsCreations]

Well done, Keith! 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊 And happy holidays!

[@MCmozzie0610]

Wouldn't have thought to use weatherstripping - great idea! Would be interested to see if rerunning the ducting to the planer helps at all - at the moment the flexi pipe is kind of in a 'z' shape because of where the ducting runs to, but if you shortened that run then it would have fewer/no bends in, though that might not be possible because of layout etc!

[@RagnBoneBrown]

The Flexi needs to pivot over for when the machine is in thicknesser mode so not much can be done about the flexi

[@elchimpo9590]

Extracted useful information 🐵 also that timber with wood worm has character, maybe a foot stool or picture frame ?

[@howardadams4072]

I used to have that cyclone and I always believed the input should have been higher and angled slightly downwards as otherwise the incoming air disrupts the circulating air. So I added an internal spiral baffle using a disk of aluminium to deflect the incoming air after one revolution to pass below the input. I also increased the exhaust ducting to 6” as I had a twenty foot run to vent to atmosphere. I never saw any evidence of dust or chips escaping outside. I did measure the power draw of the Axminster 1HP fan at 385W so only about half of what it should have been (746W = 1HP) so not surprised at its poor performance.

[@Derek_Lark]

I had to do a similar mod to my lunch box thicknesser seems like dust collection is an afterthought in many of these designs.

[@Kosh42EFG]

Good video and I'll be weather stripping my Axminster. One improvement would be a bit more compression/levelling on the voice over vs on camera voice. Was a bit loud, quiet, loud. Very Pixies.

[@loomko]

it would be pretty cool if you could combine the blastgates so one action opens one and closes the other

[@gavreid94]

Hi Keith , I have the same planner but with the itech version of the 2hp filter and have none of the issues you have/had

[@_J.F_]

They say that you get what you pay for but to be perfectly honest I think you end up paying more than it is worth when you have to make your own seals for dust collectors and machine dust collecting systems. I know that neither are top of the range in the world of tools/machines but they are not the cheapest either and it is only reasonable to expect that simple things like those shown in this video are fixed at the production line and not by the end user.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I completely agree. Unfortunately tool manufacturers just don't seem to take things like effective extraction seriously - it always seems to be an after thought. I think there's a distinct lack of innovation with regard machines at a lower price point, and things could be so much better if they just listened to the people that use them and made some simple changes

[@_J.F_]

@@RagnBoneBrown I suppose the real problem is that people buy them either way so why bother putting a little extra effort into it. And yes, I agree that there are tons of good reasons to put that little extra effort into it, but the manufacturers seem not to look at it the same way. For me personally having to tape the filter to get a tight seal on a brand new dust extractor would be enough for me to not buy it, thinking if they haven't done this right then what else haven't they done right that I will find out when the warranty has run out.

[@johndoe6032]

I only wish that combo jointer planer were available in the states. All of the combo machines here are pretty terrible. Maybe there is one like that here but we’ll out of my price range.

[@dougsaunders8109]

The extraction rabbit 🕳️. Very dark very deep

[@RagnBoneBrown]

So true

[@keiththompson8289]

Dust extraction is quite simple when you understand the physics, but there are many potential pitfalls for the unwary.

[@soylentgreen326]

IMHO R’n’BB, why not put 5” or 6” ducting above your current set up and reduce down just before the cyclone inlet. Not too expensive and it’s there if you do upgrade later❤

[@talltimberswoodshop7552]

Do the sharp bends in the flex hose for the thicknesser planer reduce air flow? Perhaps a straighter line to a shorter PVC pipe on the wall would help.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Yes but the dust hood pivots over 180 degrees in to thicknesser mode so there's really not much that can be done about it

[@tomcordey5692]

Nice one Keith. I’ve got the Charnwood version and I get exactly the same! It always annoy me to sweep up the chips out the back of the thicknesser bed. 🙌🙌👏

[@elvisbeavis]

same here. I keep a large bucket under the end of the thicknesser table and regularly clear the chips.

[@woodworkingandepoxy643]

Great video as always. Gave me some ideas I didn't know I needed too lol

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@miguelangelsucrelares5009]

One would think that the manufacturer, a multinational company with presumably a whole team of engineers and designers, would have realised long ago that more gaps equals poorer performance.

[@TheWardagh]

Annoying that the manufacturer hadn’t done that for you but a great fix. Would that weather seal stuff stand up to heat if you had prolonged use? Glad it’s all working for you 👍🏼

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thanks. Time will tell I guess 👍

[@dermotpeacock2015]

I noticed that you changed the flex tubing from the machine to the grey pipe on the wall. I think you would get better air flow if you removed that grey pipe and if you have to just run a straighter run of flex tubing to the junction where the cut offs are. your current set up has the tubing in an s shape out of the machine which is cutting down your air flow.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I agree but the way the dust hood pivots over in thicknesser mode would mean a really long Flexi tube would be required and it would be cumbersome to position without the rigid pipe there

[@michaelblackmore883]

Did you use the 10x25 foam?

[@jordanveverica6696]

I did a ton of research on dust extraction and airflow when building my system. I have a similar setup as you (2hp fan, aftermarket cyclone, cartridge filter, 4” pipe) and I get fantastic results. In my research, I learned that it is ideal to run the inlet as straight as possible for as long as possible - a minimum of a few feet (🇺🇸). I can see that you have not only an immediate bend, but also a junction. If you think it’s worth the trouble, try bringing that grey pipe for the planer up about a foot so you can maintain a straight inlet to the cyclone. For what it’s worth, I also read that flex hose has about 9x the resistance as smooth pipe due to the coiled shape. If you find this comment helpful, I will allow you to give me your Milwaukee track saw 😂

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thanks. I may try that but it's difficult because I still want to retain a shorter run of ducting to the table saw which is the opposite direction. Interestingly though the Flexi pipe doesn't seem to effect things as much as people make out, based on my own testing....

[@Jacob___Kozak]

Hey! I'm compleate novice aand I dont work witht his kind of equipment but I got theory. Your extractor whose is mounted on the left of plainer and blade ( upper side ) is spinning thourds right side cutting wood and dumping chips on the right side. Can you moun extraction on the right side?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thanks. The planer thicknesser is a combination machine, so in thicknesser mode it throws chips out the opposite direction 👍

[@worstuserever]

Now watch iTech scramble to add these strips and proudly market their improved dust extraction. They should pay you for the R&D!

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I may drop them an email to let them know about it but I'd be surprised if anything changes. Tool manufacturers just don't seem to be interested in adding features or Innovations to machines at the lower end of the budget

[@keiththompson8289]

This P/T was designed by JET in Taiwan and originally used 3 HSS knives, which produced longer strands rather than the small chips that spiral cutter blocks produce. What you have done is to direct the air flow in a more targeted fashion to make the air grab the small chips. 20m/sec air flow is more than adequate for the volume of waste being produced. I think that your machine has a 6 row cutter block,? In my experience a 4 row is a better all round choice. As far as getting feedback to the maker, I'm afraid that the company that runs iTech in Taiwan is just a wholesaler, not really open nor understanding the concept of customer feedback. I'm sure that S and S will show a sympathetic ear though.

[@ice4142]

I'm sure you want to be done with this but from my own research one of the most important things is to a straight run of at least 4ft right out of the cyclone. You have an immediate bend and then spilt. This seems less than ideal.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

If I lengthen the duct from the cyclone I would also have to lengthen the duct to my table saw so doesn't seem like a good option to me

[@scottskelton1991]

Something so simple, can't believe it. Going to check mine out over the weekend and do the same. Did you have any further thoughts on the cyclone after the motor housing, be interesting to see if that works and stops the 30% reduction in airflow.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Cheers Scott. The cyclone after the motor is something I really want to try, but based on the idea that the extractor fan only suck in as well as it can push out, I'm assuming that it might work but probably won't result in any increase of airflow... It'd be interesting to try but I'm kind of burned out on the whole extraction stuff right now and I'd like to get back to some other projects 👍

[@scottskelton1991]

@@RagnBoneBrown yeah I agree, the science behind it surely has an explanation, but in my head it also seems the same. It can still only push out as much air as will go through the 4" in the cyclone. It's a lot of work for potentially not a lot of gain, I know only too well how long it takes moving stuff around , so added ontop filming ,I don't know how you keep doing it ❤️ Keep it up though, untill some science boffin comes along and explains it all in layman's terms we all just have to keep trying new things. Iv got a silent box ato build for my camvac this Xmas, which involves all new cabinets, mitre bench and drawers. I'm not looking forward to it at all 🤣🤣

[@mattparker8304]

What about a Thien Baffle?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I think I'm right in saying they affect airflow worse than cyclones, but that the separation is slightly better - is that your understanding too? If that is the case, it's not for me... Although it would be a way of increasing to 5" ducts so still something to ponder!

[@mattparker8304]

I made one out of a trash can, I think it worked pretty well. I never had any issues with suction running a 2hp extractor with a canister filter. I ran 6 inch ducting though, just the cheap sheet metal stuff we can get at the big box store, not sure if it’s something that available locally for you.

[@michaelwillson6847]

U certainly seem to have solved that problem Keith. I have a question hopefully you might be able to answer or help with. I have a jet bag extractor. I run it to the plainer thicknesser combo (lumberjack little brother of the one u looked at)it has a dust shroud for plainer and thicknesser mode which is changed between but lately since I had the knives sharpened it seems to blocking in the shroud with these really massive shavings gets clogged. Not sure if it's the shroud or the extractor that's the issue. Problem is the shroud has a safety feature which means u have to have it on and it has like a sensor pin it clips into on the side the machine to allow it to start?? Any ideas on how to stop it clogging. Seems be worse in plainer mode but only slightly it's pretty bad in both. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👍

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Hmmm, not sure... Worth asking the lumberjack people about it I reckon!

[@michaelwillson6847]

@@RagnBoneBrown yea a may have to go down that route. Am deffo considering upgrading the extractor at the turn the year in January sales hopefully wondering if it's just not pulling enough force through it. Any others other than the one you've just upgraded to you'd recommend?

[@jiidee]

Whatever it is that briefly appears in the window at 6:09 is driving me mad.

[@geoffreycoan]

It’s awful that you’ve paid significant money for the planer and extractor and they both have out of the box design flaws in them. You shouldn’t be having to use gaffer tape and weather strip (potentially even risking impacting the warranty) to get the machines to operate fairly dust free. Glad you got it sorted though. BUT you said there were no further improvements you could make in the workshop dust system, you could paint a lot more of it green! 😂

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thanks, yeah I totally agree. It's very disappointing. But I have little faith that feeding this stuff back to the manufacturers would result in any changes unfortunately, based on past experiences! Haha yes, more green would improve things for sure

[@virtualfather]

I think the flow restriction is between the cyclone and the blower

[@RagnBoneBrown]

How?

[@3dmazter]

the pipe going into the cyclone should be straigt. Not with all the bends you made. Try it with a 1 mtr long straight pipe into the cyclone. and then al the bends and gates.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Then the ducting length to my table saw would be way way longer than it needs to be

[@deelirious]

It is so frustrating to see so many design flaws

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Yes!!

[@paulhodgson4790]

Good to see it working well, but it's butt ugly in that corner! 😂😂

[@DeafMaker]

Can't you build your own cyclone to accommodate the 6inch pipe? It doesn't have to be a perfect circle, just circular or octagonal.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I don't really fancy having a go at that

[@DeafMaker]

@@RagnBoneBrown fair enough

[@Back2Brick-Ben]

What about Dead from Wood work journey, can you not get him to 3d print you a cyclone?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I'm not sure his printer would be big enough for that...!

[@upturnedkangaroo]

Get. Rid. Of. The. Cyclone. It offers no real benefits whatsoever,

[@ot9180]

Everything??. So all you did before were bad decisions. Can’t believe that.

[@Jon-g5k]

I do enjoy your videos and learning from your content BUT KZbin is ruining the experience for me by ramming unwanted adverts in which seem to have proliferated over the past couple of months. If you can please tell KZbin to stop and no I'm not going to pay to avoid them I will just stop watching.

[@tekviper9]

What a terrible design. You should not have to do BO-BO jury rigs for an expensive tool.

[@vs77mail]

Hi, what if you put the cyclone 🌀 between filter and blower? Just a thought. It may solve your air flow issue.

[@RFC3514]

5:27 - Did you try adding weather stripping to the outside of the metal ring as well (so there would effectively be two layers, pressing against each other? Or would take make it too thick? It seems like there might be enough slack in the filter lock ring.

[@smc_scooper]

Thanks for this video! I picked up the axminster 2260s recently and it has the exact same issue in planer mode. Hoping replicating this will fix things.

[@JoeGP]

400 pounds definitely sounds like a lot, can't you make your own ?

[@mandyleeson1]

Well done Keith, persistence won out in the end.

[@MadHatter764]

Indeed Inwas wondering why you were using up that piece of nice looking timber...

[@RagnBoneBrown]

👌 I would have been too, hence why I thought I should explain 😁

[@Pete.Ty1]

👍👍👍