Plato's Republic with Pierre Grimes

Pierre Grimes, PhD, is a specialist in classical Greek philosophy. He is the founder of the American Philosophical Practitioners Association. He is also founder of the Noetic Society in the Los Angeles area. He is author of Philosophical Midwifery: A New Paradigm for Understanding Human Problems, Socrates and Jesus: A Dialogue in Heaven, and Unblocking: Removing Blocks to Understanding. He is also a decorated veteran of the second world war.
Here he maintains that Plato's great work, The Republic, is primarily about the soul and philosophy and only secondarily about politics. He describes the Allegory of the Cave in detail and how it depicts the imprisonment of the soul. He suggests that Plato's emphasis on the Self has been misinterpreted, and this has amounted to a betrayal of philosophy. He also emphasizes the Greek interest in dreams. Philosopher-Kings, he maintains, were the watchers of dreams.
New Thinking Allowed host, Jeffrey Mishlove, PhD, is author of The Roots of Consciousness, Psi Development Systems, and The PK Man. Between 1986 and 2002 he hosted and co-produced the original Thinking Allowed public television series. He is also past-president of the non-profit Intuition Network, an organization dedicated to creating a world in which all people are encouraged to cultivate and apply their inner, intuitive abilities.
(Recorded on October 3, 2017. Special Thanks to Adina Bezerita for facilitating the connection for this interview.)
For a complete, updated list with links to all of our videos -- as well as many other opportunities to engage with and support the New Thinking Allowed video channel -- please visit the New Thinking Allowed Foundation at www.newthinkingallowed.org.

[@Xscott1000]

I am now 46 and have been exposed to bare bones Greek Philosophy since childhood and this is the first time I realized that Plato's republic is an analogy between the inner life and the civilized concepts of truth and Justice in it's most immediate terms. Also the quote given about the analogy of the light of the Sun and the Sun being the reality of divinity and it's projection was really cool. Thank you.

[@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858]

i know what its really about. read the Ra Material. its the densities, plain & simple. no one knows what that is tho... unless they've read "the handbook". i should be on the show, jesus, i'm like the only one in the world who actually understands it as plato did. you can too tho ...

[@anonb4632]

@@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858 How do you know you know what Plato intended? Did you ask him personally?

[@mcneilohara1463]

you couldnt have read the book then, its obvious in the book and he states many times that they are approximating the soul to the state so that justice can be better identified.

[@neuralvibes]

92 years young and still going strong...

[@GoldJacketLuke]

Woah! Insanely sharp for a 92 year old. I was gonna guess early 80s or maybe even late 70s.

[@anonb4632]

Funnily enough, he does look like the stereotypical ancient Greek philosopher (maybe less tanned!).

[@metafisicacibernetica]

nhami nhami nhami, he is a genius of the wisdom.

[@carpenoctem4428]

That fella looks exactly like how I'd imagine a philosopher to look

[@mnemonyss]

Absolutely love Pierre, he's a gem

[@adamblock2577]

Please, more with Pierre!! Thank you!

[@metafisicacibernetica]

(This is the Best "Gandalf, the White" cosplay i haven see in all my Self life.)

[@jagger2259]

Is amazing how Jeffrey Mishlove structures the questions to get beautiful answers.

[@rogeliosoto4074]

jagger WOW! Dialect thought 👍

[@pinecone9045]

I love it when Jeffrey goes 'oh' gets me every time.

[@pingukutepro]

FYI, this video is an advanced study for people who really read, research, and try to really understand the Republic. For me, I should read the book again.

[@billthorne1]

Your shows are sublime! Thank you.Thank you. Thank you.

[@TheBigBumpinPartyPad]

Gave this one a rewatch. GEM OF AN INTERVIEW!!!

[@neroresurrected]

Amazing how little we really know about Plato and his work. This guy interviewing Dr. Grimes represents an entire academic perspective on Plato that has ruled ideas and expert opinions on Plato for decades. Dr. Grimes’ take on Plato and his works on the subject would completely leave the utmost distinguished Ivy League professor baffled, dazed and confused in the sense of how little they really understand about Plato. His take on Plato is 1000% original, fresh, and is more logically in tuned with what Plato was really saying in his dialogues than simply the idea of forms and the idea of justice that we here in western postmodern society are traditionally taught. To understand Plato truly I would recommend anyone to look up Dr. Grimes video lectures on here on KZbin by just typing his name, this subject and all of his lecture on Plato, Plotinus, Jesus etc.

[@Robb3348]

there's very little analogy between those two things. There was no authoritarian institution which banned Plato; it's simply that western philosophy kept changing and arrived at a very non-platonic place, over thousands of years, for better or worse. Plato's works were never destroyed or burned. Plato thought that the human mind was capable of knowing Reality, which to Plato's mind meant the Forms. The whole 2000-year trend of western philosophy, culminating in deconstruction and postmodernism, is towards more and more relativization of human knowledge. The idea of Plato's Forms is laughable to all but a few fringe characters in contemporary philosophy.

[@lybardhoppe6961]

@@Robb3348 Did you listen to Pierre reject the use of the term "forms" in this conversation?

[@anonb4632]

@Kip Tucker The library of Alexandria wasn't destroyed by the Christians, it was destroyed by the Romans. A common misconception. The major destruction of books in there took place in BC/BCE. By the time Christians came along, most of the library was already gone.

[@anonb4632]

@Kip Tucker Julius Caesar destroyed a large section of the library in 48 BCE. Look it up.

[@MoyaMorrisEnneagram]

A delightful interview, thank you both very much

[@jameslong5871]

Thanks so much for posting this!

[@metafisicacibernetica]

4:40 imagine the person who edited the video seeing Pierre's face right now. xP Mishlove is a good writer and this reflects in his interview in an elegant mental-handling way

[@adamslowikowski3085]

Pierre Grimes is a wonderful contemporary interpreter of Plato's political philosophy! Plato's Republic is not some ancient dead treatise! No! It is still very inspiring! In fact, it inspired Nicholas of Cusa, William Shakespeare, Baruch Spinoza, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, Frederick Schiller, among others! And in more modern times it inspired the late political economist Lyndon Larouche! 🙂🌞🌻💛🙏

[@adamblock2577]

This is the best episode

[@rogeliosoto4074]

Philosophy keeps you young!

[@anonb4632]

Another fascinating person that you've introduced me to. Thank you Dr Mishlove. I will be looking up more of Grimes' work.

[@Mx25a]

Thank you very, very much!

[@thefullmonte1902]

What a wonderfull man! With such great insight.

[@Steviemn1]

I remember him when he did the lectures on Plato and Plotinus back in 1990s in the philosophical society.

[@davidsanford9701]

What an amazing conversation. Plato was explaining the nature of the illusion... AND that there is an ultimate REALITY.

[@pravgulati]

Just fascinating conversation!

[@Plobia]

To say this is your best show is unfair to the others but I think this will be my favorite.

[@nunosousa9462]

Fantastic lesson!

[@Silvertestrun]

Ty

[@chaseriddick3058]

Wow, what a tantalizing interpretation ! I wish I was literate enough in Greek to visit the original texts myself. There's quite a bit distance between view of Dr. Grime's and the mainstream scholars (some of which are very respectable), and that makes one wonder. But in absence of getting to those texts myself, it'd be great to see Dr. Grimes and a few other Plato experts sit together and (un-contentiously) hash out of some kind of consensus.

[@anonb4632]

Grimes' interpretation is certainly plausible. However, it goes so much against the consensus that I think it would end up as just a nasty and unnecessary personal attack on him alone.

[@tarhunta2111]

The mainstream are full of shite.

[@tewtravelers9586]

The first time I heard Plato's Allegory of the Cave, I decided it was time to leave a very cult-like religion I once belonged to. It's a long story, but I've alway been fan of Plato for that reason. Great video!

[@sandyghazalansari2617]

which religion?

[@tewtravelers9586]

G. Ansari I was a card carrying member of the Mormon church for around 10 years.

[@goofinhiemer1153]

Everybody serves someone. The Holy books outline how to thrive. The social pressures that used to help maintain clean living has been adopted by the replacement Religion now called political correctness. The State has stepped in to fill the God sized hole created by moral relativism. Cultural Marxism is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[@anonb4632]

@@tewtravelers9586Ironically, I think this video here provides a key to LDS scripture. The most practical interpretation of the Book of Mormon is that it is about oneself, rather than two ancient civilisations. If you go down the literalist route with that, or indeed the Book of Abraham, or the endowment, then you will derive less. It is a shame in a way that current Mormon leadership plays down some of the most intriguing aspects of LDS theology - the gods in embryo thing for example. Even if that isn't taken literally, it involves a process of personal refinement. Some people end up as bigoted or arrogant through the doctrine of eternal progression, whereas they should in fact be humble and helpful to others. There are definitely all kinds of esoteric meanings to Mormon doctrine which aren't picked up by most people. I know opponents have tried to claim it's Luciferianism, but I don't believe that.

[@kosherwhitewine5879]

Prof Grimes is a great interviewer!

[@thefinnishbolshevik2404]

This was great

[@zackmartinelli4200]

Who knew Willy Nelson was so philosophical.

[@GoldJacketLuke]

Really cool talk!

[@retrogore420]

This dude rules.

[@Paddyllfixit]

From what I can gather although Pierre didn't conclusively confirm what he was saying, is that Plato's theory of Forms and Ideas came about as a mistranslation or misinterpretation of the original text. Did I hear that correctly? And @15:50 "...the echoes that you take to be reality..." and then what sounds like laughter can be heard. Was that a jolly laudable crew member, Jeff,......or a spooky evp? Infact, background sounds can be heard in several places during this interview with some of the loudest in the final four minutes.

[@chrisparker2118]

RIP Pierre.

[@jeffreyjensen621]

i want to attend the noetic society

[@abohnad]

Jeffry is rocking that pink/purple shirt

[@followthefleet1]

Aristotle would say that the ideal of justice, brought down-to-earth, is simply a system of mutual obligation we feel towards ourselves, our communities, and those to whom we cede governmental powers. Justice is part of the Greek virtue ethics, governed by the prudence of objective evaluation. Can't really grasp Plato's ideal world, without Aristotle.

[@leontorywalker8374]

12:15 The Allegory of the Cave

[@solidgravycomputing6969]

Why am I here? To understand why Plato promote censorship and restriction of free will? I seemed to understand that this Socratic dialogue more serves the idea of the self, than it does a nation (where the nation is a metaphor). I'm curious. Is the idea to that we censor ourselves (I.e. make art and choices that a confinded to our morality)?

[@bobrowland7851]

10:00 13:00

[@Jacob011]

I feel like I'm listening to Socrates himself. 🙂

[@pingukutepro]

11:06 Since LSD came along :D

[@tigerhunter8878]

10:20

[@FornAxlRose]

Don't worry guys, you're both invited to Solipsisysium! " the reward waiting for those living a righteous life" ;)...

[@richrockefeller3331]

So Macedonians are not really Greeks, right?

[@anonb4632]

They were a border people, put it that way. Border people tend to take influences from both sides, and fight both.

[@Andy-B1984]

I think Plato's Allegory of the Cave perfectly describes cognitive dissonance.

[@Andy-B1984]

Dont think they had a term for it back then. But when challenged with new information that goes against what information we have about reality causes a disturbance and mental anguish and cognitive dissonance and like he says the prisoners want to run back into the cave. To the reality they are familiar with. It is the equivalent of burying the head in the sand 😅

[@mackenzieperrault7382]

Insta -subscribe.

[@ferdwenen4892]

An idea of God.. Wow..

[@PFR1930]

The Republic is a satirical book...

[@anonb4632]

There is often a lot of truth in satire. I've been watching a lot of the Onion's videos from ten years ago or so... And the incredible thing is how close to the truth a lot of them are! In fact, the Onion handles certain subjects head on that many "genuine" news channels wouldn't. A lot of the jokes are in bad taste or "close to the bone", but I'm amazed at what they've either got right or what they seem to have predicted. Short version: Just because the Republic might be satire, doesn't make it untruthful.

[@shanejohns7901]

@13:24 Terrible. The man is talking about the analogue of Plato's Cave, and you interrupt/sidetrack him to go back to intro to philosophy. What a waste.