Playing 78 RPM Shellac Records properly

[@davidharris1817]

WooHoo, I'm famous :) Thank you for featuring my little strobe sir, sales went a bit mad for 3 days and it took me a while to figure out why :) Cheers & keep up the good work, David Harris (Tangram Tables)

[@digitalmediafan]

How much is it ?!

[@havardstle3788]

​@@digitalmediafan20 pounds. He said it in the video.

[@SkyBlue1031]

lol! :)

[@skylined5534]

"For those of you still awake" - I love your deadpan delivery of little gems like that! I find any recording media fascinating, especially record players. I honestly think you could spend 1000s on a set up and not get significantly much better reproduction of sound than yours is capable of. Yours is absolutely superb!

[@thinkbolt]

When he said that, I looked over at the time - 5am. Yep, I'm still awake,

[@FoxWolfWorld]

I fall asleep to Techmoan videos all the time. Not because they’re boring, but because they’re super relaxing

[@GoetiaTV]

“For those of you still awake” THAT’S ME! I’M STILL AWAKE

[@toonman361]

You are right about spending too much to achieve better sound. At 62, I can tell you my own hearing is no longer excellent so no matter what equipment I buy, it is limited by my own physiology.

[@force311999]

just restore a vintage record player and record from it

[@sphinx3r]

That practical demonstration of how the groove and stylus sizes work was really good.

[@Aeduo]

The shape of the 1 mil one though was kinda amusing. :D

[@norfunk]

It reminded me of my X talking about why we split up.

[@mr.grumpygrumpy2035]

Reminded me of a Gentle Giant album.

[@tricky2385]

Glad I wasn't the only one whose mind went there 😂

[@frixyg2050]

@@Aeduo , The color was more the problem, I think. Of all the colors of paper to have on hand...

[@moodiblues2]

I’m a boomer who when a six year old, discovered that my parents had a whole collection of 78 rpm recordings and some would be very valuable today, such as very early recordings of Sinatra and Bennie Goodmen among others. I also discovered how much fun it was to use them as targets. I must have destroyed thousands of dollars worth of these things before my mother discovered the product of my fun. Of course now, in my seventh decade of life, I am quite contrite and wish I had not had quite so much fun.

[@lordsnot9540]

Exactly the same here. My folks had a pretty large collection of 78s and back when I was a kid I'd just keep on smashing them up. I don't think it was ever done deliberately, it was just my extreme 6-year-old clumsiness coming into contact on something that was brittle and fragile. I also felt very ashamed of this in later years.

[@moodiblues2]

@@lordsnot9540 I was a rotten kid and enjoyed breaking them up. 😎

[@derekheeps1244]

I'm just very glad that I still have my mother's shellac records of Sinatra , Harry James and others ; also my grandfather's Bing Crosby records and his boxed albums of complete Gilbert and Sullivan operas , each spanning several 12" shellac discs . I don't currently have anything to play them on , but they are going nowhere . My biggest regret was that when my mother's uncle passed away circa 1970 , I didn't get a chance to go to his house before it was cleared ; I remembered him having not only a set of 1950s hi-fi components and shellac records , but he also had an Edison Graphaphone complete with the cylinder recordings which he used to wind up and let me hear when I visited as a child .

[@thedustofages]

Boys can be naturally destructive as they grow up and often reverse this trend in adulthood. I recall, however, a case in Britain many decades back, of a young man being convicted in court of theft and wilful destruction of a 'priceless' 78 record collection. Apparently he developed an addiction which was satisfied by smashing the records and boiling the pieces in water to make a strong liquor. Once cooled, he would drink this and reach cloud nine. He had been servicing this lust by buying 78s in junk shops for pennies, but they had become harder to find and he turned his attention to private collectors. The mind boggles.....

[@SkyBlue1031]

I feel your pain. I keep everything, but about ten years ago I took all my albums to work and gave them out, Sargent Pepper, Motown, etc. Dummy...dummy!

[@moneyprofessional]

I remember those flip over 33/78 styles from my childhood, and decades later you've explained why they were like that. Great stuff as always.

[@scottlarson1548]

My dad had a turntable which had a "33/45" plastic tab on the tonearm. I didn't know you could flip it over. I just assumed it was warning you not to play 78s with it.

[@LiamJFord]

Ha yes, I had a really old record player from the 50s when I was a teen in the 90s, such I killed a fair few records with flipping to the wrong stylus, but I had a lot of fun along the way!

[@bostonrailfan2427]

honestly hadn’t seen one in 35 years, not since my brother broke our parents’ player

[@theanorakchannel2496]

As a matter of interest, you can fit these to the suitcase style Record Players and improve the quality of playback from them. If you then take a line out to a hi-fi system, which most of these have, you don’t get the same quality as our friend, but you can significantly improve a really cheap record player. I’ve done this with a teac all-in-one system that my wife and before I met her.

[@VintagePassion2]

Trim pots can misadjust over time, so it's normal to have to readjust them

[@Brookspirit]

Yep, i was given a record player by an old friend, he thought it was knackered, it just needed a new belt and a slight adjustment of the pots, it works well now. He bought a new one.

[@barbudoru]

Especially if the thing was dropped or bumped in transit.

[@mrnmrn1]

Not quite mechanically misadjust, but the pots themselves and other components can drift in value as they age.

[@VintagePassion2]

@@mrnmrn1 that's true

[@TheLadderman]

@@mrnmrn1 yeah, I imagine things like corrosion could affect the resistance of the pots, and therefore change the value.

[@therealthirst8099]

It's stuff like this that makes me grateful for all those people on KZbin to do good quality rips of their 78's and share with everyone. Helping preserve legitimately nice music that otherwise would never be available again and be lost to time.

[@AB0BA_69]

Lmao bro you realize youtube does compression, right? That music uploaded to youtube is better than nothing but it doesn't sound good

[@yeahreally9185]

@@AB0BA_69 they'll usually have a Dropbox/Google doc link in the description to the full files if anyone wants them. KZbin is helpful for ease of discovery. Edit: KZbin compresses music to 320kbps (highest), 256kbps (high), 128kbps (default) AAC. This is the average across all streaming services, so KZbin does not stand out for poor sound quality. Maybe it did 10 years ago and that's what you're thinking of.

[@rolandvv-360]

We try our best. Love to know there is still interest in music preservation.

[@jamesslick4790]

@@AB0BA_69 Music NOT uploaded at ALL sounds WORSE, It sounds like NOTHING. 🤷‍♂It would suck if it was lost because we are waiting for perfection. 😢 "Le mieux est le mortel ennemi du bien" 🤔

[@jamesslick4790]

@@rolandvv-360 👍😊👍

[@nbntelevision1]

You sir are spot on. I frequently fill in for hosts at a local FM radio station. Our station not only has an extensive vinyl library, but a huge shellac collection. Occasionally I’ll have a lazy afternoon where I play nothing but 78s from the library. My AT-LP120 does the job very nicely with a Grado cartridge. Thank you for making this video to properly educate people on how to get the best sound from 78s by simply using the proper stylus and equipment.

[@filanfyretracker]

yeah older stations can have amazing collections. One I listen to(WMMR Philadelphia) can sometimes dig up some really crazy stuff because its been around so long.

[@ExtendedJet8]

I'm impressed there is a radio station anywhere that still owns and plays shellac records. Does the show stream online?

[@christianelzey9703]

@@filanfyretrackerYup I love all the station IDs they regularly use from long dead rock icons

[@nbntelevision1]

@@ExtendedJet8 Oh we definitely did a show. It does stream, but I’d be more than delighted to send you one of our autumn afternoon programmes from some time ago. The show has likely expired from the streaming library, but I get the air checks from the station after I do a show (reason being my friends from Manchester and myself get in trouble often for our adverts that are less than genuine and poke fun at local frustrations).

[@Balrog-tf3bg]

That sounds like a dream job

[@CedarPark604]

That '3.0' spacer is actually a 3 gram weight. If you change it out for a metal spacer, weight you could use the counterweight to get your recommended 5.0 gram tracking weight.

[@DoubleDTVx2]

I was scratchin my head trying to figure out why a spacer would make any difference, when the tone arm isn't a fixed object!

[@JonnyFlash80]

That makes so much more sense than it being a spacer.

[@Peron1-MC]

@@DoubleDTVx2 i guess its both then since it sits in between the cartridge and the arm

[@Ylyrra]

My first thought was "just swap the spacer out for a couple extra washers and nuts on the bolts".

[@intercity125]

@@DoubleDTVx2 Stylus rake / VTA.

[@DeFi-Macrodosing]

"I'm not telling you what to do. It's your life. You get on with it." An instant classic. Thanks Mat, always a pleasure to watch!

[@AndrewBehm]

I’m a part of a 78 listening club here in New York, and it’s amazing how good they can sound when played back on the proper equipment. Especially the acoustically recorded ones, you can feel like you’re in the room!

[@madzen112]

Play them backwards!

[@psychospacecadet]

Being honest, my mother grew up with them and as far as I can remember we listened on her old GE electric 3 speed automatic turntable and she never changed the stylus for her 78s! It's amazing how long even people who grew up with the medium were oblivious to this and just how long this has been such an issue!

[@robertschnobert9090]

Shellac sounds even warmer and more attractive than vinyl. It's AWESOME! 🌈

[@thinkbolt]

"a 78 listening club" OMG

[@kcgunesq]

@@robertschnobert9090 By "warmer", I assume you mean "nostalgic".

[@sneskid78]

25:47 there is a 78rpm equalization plug-in for Audacity. You simply enter the turnover and roll off values for that particular disc, and it outputs a file that you can then import into the Audacty’s EQ filter. Since you used a RIAA preamp, you’d simply use the inverse RIAA preset first, and then apply the EQ you created with the plug-in.

[@mrnmrn1]

The process of undoing a RIAA correction adds unnecessary noise. Simpler and better to use a good quality microphone preamp instead of a phono preamp, to get a linear output.

[@StevenIngram]

@@mrnmrn1 That makes sense. Record the rawest audio that you can from the source and then filter in post. :D

[@djhrecordhound4391]

Actually I intentionally reverse the RIAA curve when digitally restoring almost any record at any speed. THEN I'll remove all scratches and reduce/remove surface noise. When I re-apply the curve, I have a very clean result.

[@sneskid78]

@@mrnmrn1 It’s not bad if you have good equipment. At the very least, the surface noise of the 78 overpowers it anyway.

[@kFY514]

@@mrnmrn1 Bear in mind that MM/MC phono cartridges output voltage that is proportional to the *speed of movement* of the stylus. The waveform that you're getting is not the "unwound" shape of the groove - it's the graph of the "stylus' speedometer", or - for the math nerds over here - the derivative function of the "unwound groove". The RIAA curve is partially undoing that, so the resulting signal from a phono preamp is actually much closer to a plot of the "unwound groove" than the cartridge's raw output. In my book, it's better to do that in the analog domain than force your audio interface into capturing an unreasonable amount of high-frequency noise from the raw cartridge input. Although preferably, you'd want to apply the EQ that is the difference between RIAA and the desired curve in one go. Not sure if the Audacity plugin can do that.

[@jamesinc87]

You sometimes might need to adjust trimpots anyway, resistors drift in value with age and use

[@robertbackhaus8911]

As do capacitors. And capacitors - especially electrolytics - have broad tolerances - standard is 20% - so if those capacitors were part of the timing circuit, you would expect to have to adjust the speed when you replaced them.

[@mateuszorlinski7334]

​@@robertbackhaus8911 capacitor made in Poland by Elwa sometimes had +100% -10% tolerances. The Big grey one in this turntable could be one of these.

[@Gold63Beast]

He takes all of those small things into consideration in high detail, just don’t think he explains that particular part in this particular video.

[@StevenIngram]

Heck, just oxidation in potentiometers could account for some of it. As they've become pitted through time, they aren't as conductive as they use to be. Or said the other way around, they produce more resistance than they did from the factory. So it's like the pots had been changed, even though they hadn't been moved.

[@kerzwhile]

That's precisely why they're there!

[@deathstrike]

Matt if this is something you truly enjoy, no matter the "cheap", then it really shows in the quality of your project. For you and many of us, even lower cost audio equipment can be a labor of love and that is really all that matters. At the end of it you and your audience learn something new, thats what it means to be passionate about something.

[@danielgower5531]

Techmoan is always an enjoyable watch. Mat, your time and effort is always appreciated.

[@tazz1669]

I was going to post exactly the same, am always delighted when another video appears

[@originalveghead]

What Daniel Gower said - top notch video as usual. Great watch.

[@nawk1222]

I don't own any 78s, and I don't have much interesting in them, yet this video had me glued to my seat as I always find the process for these projects very intriguing, and as you said the things we learn along the way are almost always valuable regardless. Thanks for sharing!

[@endresutus124]

Exactly my thought. I will never buy a 78, or a record player at all, but love to watch this stuff. What they managed to do with mechanics back in the day is mindbreaking. My sister had an Aiwa walkman that was slimmer than the cassette case. I doubt that she has it anymore.

[@MoultrieGeek]

Same here, I have no interest in very old audio formats but Mat's projects are so fascinating and so well presented those 32 minutes just fly by.

[@toonman361]

There's nothing like playing a 78 on proper, period phonographs (preferred over "record players"). I have five, three sitting and two portable. Prices on antique phonographs have dropped and 78rpm records are easy to find. SI also own a NUMARK like his with the proper stylus (needle). It sounds great.

[@budgetguitarist]

There's some historically important music that is only available on 78s, so it's good that there's high end technology available to record them to digital.

[@manFromPeterborough]

@John2E0GTU Elvis best heard spinning the record live, not some cruddy digital

[@drueckglueck9918]

😅

[@wolvesaywe1155]

You can`t beat Saturday morning with a mug of coffee and a Technoan video

[@rich_edwards79]

Right? Feels like normal service has been restored :)

[@cjc363636]

You're not wrong! (and a BIG mug of coffee, too!)

[@GDJason]

The perfect adult version of my childhood Saturday morning cartoons and cereal.

[@pHD77]

Only way to beat that is TWO mugs of coffee and TWO Techmoan videos 😏

[@just_passing_through]

For us Brits (and Aussie ex-pats), that would be a mug of tea. 👍

[@MrKevinp0]

I have to say, the difference is quite noticeable. I was actually under the impression that 78's by their very nature were inherently a noisy format, due to the limited technology of their time. Having said that, you new setup is very impressive, and I can take away a new respect for the format. Cheers from Indiana!

[@asparagusnoodle]

cheers from northern Indiana up by South bend also!🎉

[@telocho]

I guess part has to do with using schellac as base material, which meant any further improvement was not possible. Vinyl is more soft and flexible and doesn’t suffer from the hiss, pops and scratches as much as schellac.

[@CptJistuce]

​@@telocho Also, as I recall things shellac records were impregnated with an abrasive to help ensure the needle wore down rather than the recording. That seems like it would GREATLY increase surface noise.

[@peterbroad1772]

Shellac is inflexible and brittle. Vinyl is much more durable for repeated plays.

[@fohdeesha]

Indiana techmoan gang (Indianapolis here)

[@barrykochverts4149]

This video is of great service to amateur audiophiles everywhere. Thank you!

[@dcflake5645]

A lot of bigger channels hire artists to do cutting edge 3D to illustrate points that can't be shown in camera because of many technical reasons. Techmoan holds up a gatefold record and a piece of shaped paper. I love this channel

[@dustinhipskind7665]

Yep this is great. Why use CGI when practical effects can serve the same purpose.

[@NaokisRC]

To follow with other comments - Yes sometimes you need to recalibrate the board. Resistors, capacitors and oxides can all mess with the set rotation speed to make it faster or slower, so adjusting pots is needed. Thats why they are there, so they can be calibrated if it goes out of spec!

[@sonus289]

could be the trimmers may be the incorrect value or have changed over time

[@firesurfer]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was off spec right from the factory. This is a budget player.

[@BlackSmokeDMax]

@@firesurfer this was my exact thought, someone at the factory just didn't care enough to get it "right". Though the motor just being slower wouldn't shock me either.

[@Brian_Of_Melbourne]

Indeed, it will have been long term drift (AKA aging) of other components that was the most likely cause of the speed inaccuracies. Adjusting then is 100% the right thing to do, that's why they are adjustable.

[@henryokeeffe5835]

@@BlackSmokeDMax The motor shouldn't make a difference, as it has a tachometer for closed-loop speed control.

[@48Boxer]

5:00 Man I thought this was a family channel!

[@AndyFletcherX31]

I'm blown away with the quality of the 78 record. Never realised how good they could be if played properly. I'd always had visions of people gathering around hissing and crackling players trying to make out the words!

[@Cloudman572]

Mean voices not lyrics for the tv/film bit.

[@andygelsthorpe7518]

I've been playing 78rpm records since my teens when people started giving me them and I played them on an inherited gramophone (still got it). Your video was, as usual, spot on and very interesting. I started recording them in my twenties with a Garrard SP25 mk IV with a G800 cartridge playing into a Goodmans Module 80 which had a mono button. Using this got rid of a LOT of the surface noise. Eventually the 80 died and I bought new stuff, including a TD180 in 1997 which cost £175 and came with an Audio Technica cartridge. As the 78 stylus was ludicrously expensive, I bought a second headshell (£3) but of course just used the heavy G800 which I had to counterbalance with Blu Tack (TM) (other sticky stuff is available). I've fixed this recently as I bought an ATN91 stylus off ebay and fitted the A.T. cartridge after twenty odd years. I record onto Minidisc, which from the start had a mono recording function and is more than adequate for the frequency spread of 78s, and then I can fire that onto a CD if need be. Some old, stored, much played 78s benefit from a good wash- I've proved this by a before and after listening test. I use a nailbrush, soap and warm water. WRT mono playing, one could short out the outputs at the cartridge, but that would preclude playing anything in stereo. I've heard of the idea of separating the tracks and choosing the better one noise wise, but I think some of the noise is out of phase and will cancel out when combined. Perhaps someone could confirm or deny this. Please keep up the good work! Your stuff is a regular watch for me.

[@z80player]

I'm a Pro-Ject brand seller in Spain, thnks a lot for this high value information, your channel is amazing.

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

Kudos for mentioning "the experts" i.e. those that take 78 rpm shellacs much more seriously than the general public. Thanks to such people a good amount of our recorded history is still preserved rather than having ended up in a landfill somewhere.

[@Claus-CaptainPhoenixCorner]

Always interesting to watch your videos 👍 3 things you should do though: 1 - Turn the rubber mat (it's upside down) 2- Center the record properly. It's clearly off-center which causes the "wow" you can hear. When you don't have a turntable w. removeable center "tap" then widen the center hole until you can center the record properly (and the cartridge doesn't move right-left for every turn). 3 - Remove the protective foil on the front (from the speed-changer and all the way to the right) and at the base og the lift-arm. Thanks and good luck!

[@NicleT]

The way the arm wiggles go so much with the music!

[@southeastgasservices]

I never thought in a million years 78s could sound so brilliant. I'd have no problem listening to these all day long.

[@terminallygray]

My thoughts - exactly

[@lwilton]

Fresh 78s could sound wonderful on the equipment from the 1950s and 60s. Heck, they could sound wonderful on a full size console player from the 1930s. Even AM radio (back when it still played music rather than talk nonsense) could sound wonderful on a full size console radio from the 1930s. The belief that 78s sounded bad came from either incredibly worn and dirty disks, or in more recent times, from using the wrong stylus. AM these days really does sound terrible on any radio, but 2 inch tin "full range" (they are NOT) speakers sure doesn't help any.

[@Peron1-MC]

and a bit of crackling is kind of charming :)

[@stuartlief9614]

@@lwilton In the 1950s there was a short lived record label called Audiophile that released microgroove vinyl 78s which were mostly if not entirely made up of Trad Jazz but unlike most records these records were red with two tracks on each side of a 12" record. I've also seen Rivermont record with recent 78s as well as LPs in addition to CDs & MP3s so it's possible to obtain modern 78s that are suitable for playback on RIAA standard equipment.

[@manFromPeterborough]

@@stuartlief9614 The 50's MGM and HMV records had the NAB curve that sounded clear and bright on RIAA playback

[@fordfalcon85]

Thank you Techmoan. 78s are a special subject to me and a decent setup has been on my bucket list for some time. I'm leaning towards the LP120BT. Majority of my 78 collection are late 1950s rock and roll titles which are quite rare here in Australia.

[@garrypeak4277]

I’m in Australia (Sydney) as well. I’ve got the LP120. Grab yourself a Ortofon 2M 78 stylus. Not cheap the way I bought it, comes mounted in its own headshell, so all you do is just swap the whole headshell out. 5 minutes. Goes about $275 at places like Sydney Hifi. You won’t be disappointed. The records sound fantastic

[@5046dgmo]

I am from Australia as well. Have the LP120BT. I picked up a few (3) 78 recently for free but only picked up a few because I wasn't sure if I could play them. Looked at buying the 78 stylus from Audio Technica but simply too expensive for playing 3 records! Worried that I might leave the incorrect on the system and ruin my other records. Had one of those suitcase styled machine as well so played my Christmas 78 on that and was surprised how good it sounded. Now "upgraded" to a flip stylus picked up from Ebay and am more than happy with the results. Just want to find a few more 78's.

[@cartilagehead]

Audio technica has a 78 cartridge (AT-VM95SP) that can be bought pre-mounted on a headshell for easy swapping. Costs about $80-100 USD. That plus the standard VM95e that comes with the 120xbt and you’re golden, unless you decide you want to upgrade to Ortofon Blue or Bronze/etc (VM95e is good enough that I’d skip Ortofon Red as an upgrade and go straight to Blue or higher)

[@garrypeak4277]

@@cartilagehead Yes, I’m currently running the 2M bronze and I adore it. I had the Blue for probably 18 months to 2 years and the Bronze is a massive jump up. Would love to try the 2M Black, but the price is a barrier, and I’ve read it can be finicky and temperamental. I’ve had the LP120 for years, left the stock AT stylus on it for a year, then tried the 2M red, and I’ve never looked back. Been upgrading every 2 years or so.

[@acertainshape]

But in Australia, the records spin backwards, right?

[@BenvanBroekhuijsen]

i had no idea that 78 RPM records could sound that good. Of course the recordings themselves weren't as good as the later ones, but a lot better than I thought. I myself only had 33 1/3 records and 45 records as well as the 12 inch versions. Threw them all away when I switched to CD's in the 80's, but how could I have known that in 2023 there would still be a market for them :D

[@CptJistuce]

If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is NEVER THROW AWAY ANYTHING.

[@jaredwblack]

I have a Dual 1209 that works pretty good for 78's. Besides playing all 3 speeds, it has a knob on top for fine speed adjustment. In the 78 rpm era, platter speed wasn't standardized, and discs from different recording labels were recorded at slightly different speeds. The fine adjustment knob on the Dual is handy for that. I believe there are references available online that will tell you the exact RPM's for different labels in specific eras

[@theanorakchannel2496]

one thing I love about KZbin is that you can watch a video once and because you’re not directly using it, you forget about it. You then discover it again three years later as I’ve just done. I’m going to go down the audio technica AT LP120 route, I’m totally blind and I couldn’t do all the messing about that you had to do with the turntable. I need a system that will just work. Audio Tech now do a version of this turntable with Bluetooth, so as my second turntable that will give me some extra facilities for other things as well. I’d be very happy though if I ended up with the same quality you did. Well done really enjoyed that!

[@SkyBlue1031]

Me too, I think.

[@Roland314]

Another great video as always. FWIW, instead of only feeding in one channel or the other, many older receivers have a mono button which "sums" the audio. This effectively cuts the surface noise in half, as the two channels of music will combine to double the sound signal whereas the noise is random and non-identical on each side and so remains at the same output as before. Love the content as always.

[@shellac4682]

Long time 78 rpm addict here. With the exception of a proper pre-amp, a casual 78 rpm listening set up need not be expensive. Thank goodness you've challenged the frequent assertion of various you tubers that one of these awful modern portables is sufficient for 78 playback. They are not, and utterly fail at bringing you what is in the grooves.

[@andrewlittleboy8532]

I agree, some later 78's, Frank Sinatra for example sound absolutely glorious on a good setup.

[@shellac4682]

@@andrewlittleboy8532 Heck, Columbia and Okeh were producing beautifully recorded and cleanly pressed records in the late 1920's. That recording of Peck's Bad Boys is actually a very poor noisy cheap 40's pressing, like most of the stuff that came out on Asch and associated labels.....and still people here are marvelling at the sound. The song is "I Never Knew", and it was often recorded by jazz musicians. It was an older song when it was recorded for Asch. Moses Asch was an important figure in the independent recording industry of the period.

[@jhonwask]

I have the Ortofon 2M78 mono cart with the 3 mil stylus and it makes my 78's sound amazingly new. I also have the 0.7 mil stylus for microgroove records (in mono, of course). Thanks for the video. I love your channel.

[@znzp250]

Techmoan you've done it again! What an absolutly fascinating and fun video, thank you for taking the time to teach what you've learned and to bring us along your "groovy" expedition through 78s! The final result was nothing short of magnificent and sounds excellent. I love nerding out with you man, especially the vinyl stuff. Thanks again, can't wait for the next session!

[@paulharker7184]

I wanted a solution for this, and I ended up spending £10 on an old 1970s BSR deck from a junk shop. These old decks can play at 78RPM, and have cartridges with one of those flip over styluses - you can pick between Microgroove or 78. It sounds fantastic and doesn't damage the records. It's a revelation - even my finest acoustic gramophone pales in comparison to the quality of the output from the BSR deck, especially with later discs. Plus there are advantages from not having to change needles every play, and being able to adjust the volume easily. Speed is also spot-on. I expect one of these modern decks would be better, but this does a fantastic job for me. Thanks for the interesting video.

[@isaacplaysbass8568]

I really enjoyed the "journey into 78's" on this one. That said, I tend to enjoy all of your audio tech and history videos. It reminds me that I need to have a look at my late grandfathers cabinet gramophone. I used to love playing with it as a kid!

[@wa27]

I am amazed that Techmoan didn't have a turntable already that could play at 78.

[@DanJackson1977]

He said he had 9ne that could play it but not with an output that he could archive.

[@dikbozo]

As usual, I have learned something along with your usual interesting subjects entertaining me. I have learned that 78RPM is better than I thought it was. Your demonstration of the difference the stylus and EQ makes is so clear that now I get what the old timers used to tell me; it IS warmer, more inviting, a richer experience. Thanks again.

[@MichaelYates]

Excellent , Tomorrows World meets Blue Peter demostration

[@PLQ2K]

Just amazing timing for you to share this. Only two weeks ago I found a pair of vintage travel-cases full of 78rpm records at a local thrift store, 92 records total for 20 bucks, and have been looking at turntable options to play them. This was incredibly informative. Thank you for both this video and all your amazing content!

[@monkeytennis7477]

TENACITY, is the word that fits you best 😄 Thank you for the demonstration!

[@piotr433]

2:14 In this particular case you don't need to swap cartridges, it is enough to swap the stylus (both belong to the same VM95 series), which is no more complicated than swapping shells.

[@saltech3444]

@@yorkie984 What he means is that, once the cartridge is installed, you can just switch styluses between 33 and 78 rather than the whole cartridge.

[@transistortester]

15:11/17:39 I'd be very wary of that RIFA capacitor, those things are notorious for exploding in spectacular fashion! Pretty impressive what a difference the proper stylus made, didn't realize it would be that significant.

[@peterlarkin762]

Yep they certainly do. Many a magic smoke has been released from them. He replaced it with a new one which are rifa reproductions made by Kemet. Quite safe.

[@longrunner258]

It probably won't burn up here (since this is not a mains application as they were normally used in), but it'll still crack (and fail) eventually and is certainly a very *weird* choice for the kit (what does this application need a Class Y capacitor for?).

[@bloqk16]

What the RIAA did for standardizing vinyl records playback cannot be fully appreciated until the CDs came along. Here's my story: When it comes to making what I would call a "mix" collection of songs, which was done from vinyl records to audio cassettes eons ago, then graduated with CDs to audio cassettes about 20 years ago; one cannot really appreciate what the RIAA did for standardizing recorded music on vinyl, as I discovered when making a compilation 'mix' collection of songs to audio compact cassettes. In my attempts to do 'mix' collections of songs from various CDs to a single compilation recording on an audio cassette, the CDs had audio levels and EQ settings that were _all-over-the-place,_ making for an uneven sounding 'mix' compilation in audio cassettes. Whereas when doing the same from vinyl records to audio cassettes years earlier, the consistency with the audio levels and EQ of the vinyl records were nearly uniform . . . all one had to do was make some minor adjustments to the recording levels with the audio cassette deck. The playback levels from the vinyl records were uniformly consistent. With CDs? A nightmare of playback levels all-over-the-place.

[@kaitlyn__L]

All the dubs of my dad’s albums very noticeably had this problem, to the point he just started turning on auto volume control for CDs which had never been a good idea for vinyl. By the later 90s CDs were already getting over compressed anyway so some extra on top was better than having a really inconsistent tape to travel with

[@bloqk16]

@@PileOfEmptyTapes That's true about the budget compilation LPs having level variations. In the US, the 'K-tel' label in the 1970s were famous for cramming 20 songs onto a single LP platter, which lowered the gain when compared to other LPs that would have 8 to 12 songs total on sides A & B.

[@manFromPeterborough]

@@bloqk16 Thats why I have a line level booster after the phono stage, the K-tel vol 7, EP45 vol 5 on the booster

[@hughjampton7518]

Thank you. Not only did I enjoy the content, but it's particularly timely for me as I have recently become the custodian of a number of 78s and currently have no means of playing them. Now I know what to look for.

[@colinreid3544]

Well done Matt, a really informative video and loved the audio results (especially the string bass sound). I can remember as a kid, being told 'What do you want to play those for??' on my brothers home made turntable with a flip-able stylus and rubbish headphones (mid 70's) and being entranced with these then 50 yr old recordings. I went on to be a pro musician with a passion for 'old tech' 🙂

[@kugikugi8986]

The HiFi Salesman told my mother in the early 80s to use LP needle position for new discs and the 78 position for old discs. So what happened? My mother used the ‚LP‘ for new LP records which she bought recently until about 2 years and then she used always the 78 position for the older LPs…

[@graealex]

I can't imagine someone wouldn't notice the speed difference when playing an LP at 78rpm instead of 45rpm or 33rpm.

[@atomicagegamer3693]

VWestlife had a video showing that some of the current flip-over cartridges use a sapphire 1mil stylus for the 78 side. I wonder if that's just a more modern situation, since many people would rarely play a 78 and the 1mil stylus still works, even if it's not ideal. Maybe the separate stylus would still have some value, even if it's just sparing your regular stylus from dragging along the bottom of the 78 groove?

[@kugikugi8986]

@@graealex In fact it was only the stylus setting. Fun fact: Although the stylus had these two positions, the speed setting of the turntable was only 33 and 45. I don't know what make it was.

[@electronicwaves]

I think I saw a Rifa cap on the capacitor kit. Those are notorious for exploding and it should be replaced for safety reasons. If you google Rifa caps it is mentioned even on wikipedia

[@cyberwomble7524]

"A One Mil Stylus in Three Mil Groove" sounds like the title of a Beck song.

[@cyberyoyo7674]

That bit of the video with the gatefold sleeve and paper styli was worthy of “Do You Know”. Matt just needs to get a blonde wig to wear during those sections.

[@rambleon3698]

On my $20, Chinese (Ali Express) 2.1 suround sound system, i have to say that your setup actually made me think about buying 78's. This video and your commitment where well worth the effort. Well done and thank you.

[@PunkTiger]

I've used one of those Numark record players you have (mine was branded Ion) to play 78s. There are styli available for those cartridges specifically for 78s. It's just a matter of swapping out the stylus (the red bit on on those cartridges). Usually, the 78 styli have a green surround to differentiate them from the 33/45 ones.

[@mart4videos]

Nice job.. lovely music on those old 78’s too, nice to hear it all these years after it was recorded

[@SmokyPondFarm]

Mat, an added bonus of using a stereo cartridge to play 78's is that you can reverse the leads of one channel of the cartridge to play Edison vertical groove Diamond Discs.

[@jkvintageanalog8489]

The resistors that those pots use as voltage dividers can drift over time. The fix would be to replace the resistors with some new metal film resistors to make sure the values don't drift anymore over time so adjusting the pots was the quick fix but a long term fix would be a resistor swap. Or for all we know they may not drift anymore and the adjustment may be permanent.

[@scottziegler4238]

Thanks for this! I dug my old Zenith suitcase player out of storage that I had set up for 78s. These records sound really good when given a chance.

[@sneskid78]

27:45 An advantage of using that stereo cartridge, is that it can also play the Edison vertically cut Diamond Discs. You’d simply wire one side backwards and sum to mono.

[@-IE_it_yourself]

please explain further. thanks

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@-IE_it_yourself you inverse the polarity of one of the channels, doesn’t matter which, and then wire the outputs together (that’s what “sum to mono” means, because the signals add together)

[@sneskid78]

@@-IE_it_yourself When Edison saw that Berliner’s disc system was superior, he tried to make his own modifications to it which involved making it proprietary. Instead of cutting the groove laterally like everyone else, his method was to cut vertically. This way, if people wanted to buy a copy of an artist that worked with Edison, they would also have to buy a player from Edison. Attempting to play an Edison Diamond disc on a “normal” gramophone would result in no sound since the pickup is designed for lateral movements. Plus, it would also damage the record. You can however play these Edison Diamond Discs with a modern stereo cartridge and 3mil stylus, but since it is vertically cut, one side will be out of phase with the other. One way to fix this to wire one of the channels backwards on the cartridge, and then sum the outputs to mono. Another way is to record it in Audacity as a normal stereo record, but then “invert” one of the channels before summing to mono.

[@douglsmith]

I recently did this to listen to some Edison records. The other factor is the stylus size. The 3 mil for shellac 78s is too large for Edison records. For those you need a smaller size that can get down to the bottom of the groove and ride the vertically recorded hills and valleys. I'm using a .7 mil stylus and the records sound great.

[@TheWeepingCorpse]

The pots are probably connected to another fixed value resistor in series (shared by all 3 pots) and maybe that resistor has drifted.

[@mrnmrn1]

More likely that dry bearings restrain the motor, and the platter shaft also might be dry. It was the case with my very similar turntable from the same OEM (Unitra Poland), after I oiled the motor bearngs, it became a lot quiter and faster. But it still has insufficient torque, probably the commutator and brushes are oxidized. This one has enough torque, it probably just needs some oil.

[@matambale]

@@mrnmrn1 The feedback system would still correct for motor slowness (to a point where becomes uncorrectable). The drift must be in the speed measurement system itself. One should still keep the system oiled, though, as otherwise it's aging the motor rather a lot. Of course, the myriad mechanical couplings between that optical sensor and the actual motion of the disc are all subject to wear, as well. Note that the speed measurement system is receiving pulses 5% *faster* than it should be if it's locking onto a slower speed.

[@areyouserious3092]

Was thinking the very same thing.

[@bladeofzorro1932]

As always Matt, A subject and problem solved within the understanding of most of the audience. Even going one step beyond and tweaking the speed to get the absolute best out of a medium most people younger than myself would have never experienced. For its day, the quality of shellac records was excellent. (And as a point of interest, shellac is a resin excreted by the Lac bug,)

[@Bolton115]

I thought you were kidding, like the old joke of 'Do you know how many beach naugas had to give up their hydes for that car's interior?!' So I looked it up.. yep, shellac really is a product of an East Indian insect!!

[@SBXIII]

pausing at 13:49 to ask: Do people *really* buy turntables that don't have some sort of pitch control mechanism? It's basically a form of manual speed adjustment, where you set your turntable to 33, 45 or 78, and if it's not running at the precise speed you want then you can make small adjustments. Not every album is mastered the same and sometimes the music on the record itself plays back just a little too slow or a little too fast, so at one point turntable manufacturers accounted for this. But I guess people stopped noticing or caring at some point?

[@mikethetexan76]

The difference in sound was a very nice surprise. Thanks for taking us on the journey.

[@sypialnia_studio]

When you played that 78 in stereo mode one can clearly hear that most of the noises are in stereo, while the original recording, being originally mono, sits in the middle. Therefore the best way to make it mono again is to use mid-side conversion and using only mid channel.

[@grahamdunning]

I have a feeling that sending both channels into the headphone amp for the mono switch would eliminate more noise - the way that stereo is decoded from a record means that summing the L+R channels effectively cancels out any vertical movement (which would otherwise come through as simultaneous clicks/pops but inverted in one channel). Just a hunch but might be worth a test.

[@davidroyer5049]

Your suggestion actually works well.

[@PhonoDirect]

As a person who repaired tons of those Unitra Thorens tts I have to appreciate your realistic view of it and a very good repair skills. Btw, this is the older version, the newer one had a bit different electronics. There are aftermarket feet mounted on it, which are of Tesla/Pro-ject origin. And the rubber slipmat is placed upside down 🙃

[@MLampner]

I enjoyed this Matt. I was a child as the 78 era was coming to an end. My first good turn table had a different mechanism for play 78s. It had belonged to my Dad, but he had upgraded and I had inherited his old ones and the 78s as his new turn table did not play them. His was from an era where you truly bought a turn table, no arm and then chose the arm to mount with it. His had an Audax (sic) tone arm. It had a unique method for adjusting. You pushed a button down on the arm with it down you rotated it. Doing so essentially changed a pair of cartridges so that the forward one would be the one playing. I think this was possible because this was a monaural turntable so there were only two wires and they connected to the cartridge by a set of brushes. At the back it had a mechanism that made it easy to then adjust the weight. I don;'t think it was terribly precise but it was good enough.

[@dollhausenx]

"Still awake?" Jeez, I never watch videos this long and was totally fascinated the whole way through! I learned more about record playback watching this than...well ever before. Great stuff!

[@Lazerrus]

And just like that the price of 78's begin to sky rocket because Techmoan made them sound good LOL~

[@davidg5898]

Speaking of weird 78 RPM records, have you heard about X-ray records (AKA bone music)? During the height of Soviet and Eastern Bloc censorship (1950s and 60s), they were bootleg records made from discarded medical X-rays. It was among the ways people behind the Iron Curtain could get their hands on Western rock and jazz. The material could only last about 5-10 plays.

[@_innerscape_]

One important advice, don't clean 78 RPM records with any kind of alcohol: they're made of shellac (a secretion of an insect used also for violin's paint) that melts beautifully in alcohol.

[@EnigmaticLucas]

It’s also used on apples, weirdly enough

[@1234jacee]

Didn't know this. Thanks for that. Distilled water to clean?

[@_innerscape_]

@@1234jacee you're welcome. Yep, distilled water and a few drops of dish soap, brush it gently, rinse, pat dry with microfiber.

[@RCAvhstape]

@@_innerscape_ I wash shellac records in the kitchen sink same way I wash used vinyl records, using a bit of dish soap and a really soft brush, trying to keep the labels from getting soaked. After rinsing off the soap I use a rag to soak up some of the water (no aggressive wiping), then I put them in a dish rack to dry. Some used records are absolutely filthy when I receive them and they get a cleaning before I ever stick them on my record player.

[@kenheitmueller69]

I just received a set of Bartok 78s that were ruined by the seller or whomever they got them from by that treatment.

[@CamhiRichard]

Just a couple of hints from someone who has been playing records of all speeds for 72 years (!) - first, you can tape a coin onto the top of the head to get the stylus pressure right. Otherwise, if it's too light, the needle will tend to skim over the most active parts of the groove, causing distortion and wear. Second: you probably noticed that the arm was swaying a bit when playing some of your discs. This is because the hole is either too large or was not centered properly when the disc was manufactured. I've encountered this surprisingly often. It causes the pitch to go up and down. The cure is to enlarge the hole enough so that by trial and error, you can tap the side of the record while it's spinning (recommended to do this at 33 ⅓) until the sway is gone. Then you should most probably record it when it's perfectly centered, so that you don't have to do it again the next time you want to hear that disc. And one more thing: I have a (real) Thorens which of course only has 2 speeds. If I lift the inner turntable, the spindle is resting in a bed of motor oil in its slot. If the oil dried up, there would be a lot more friction, which would of course make the motor work harder, and also slow the turntable down. Don't know if this is also true of your Thorens, but you might want to check it.

[@brush3287]

I was impressed with your perseverance. I too was a purchaser of the 78 rpm shellac record of Elvis's "Teddy Bear". A very short song both audibly & the groove coverage on the disk (the flip side "Gotta a lot of livin' to do" was the exact opposite!). When I converted my disc collection to MP3 tracks a decade or so ago I'd already replaced the 78's with CDs. Toward the end of their life as a medium Pye Nixa in the UK began producing 78's on vinyl. This was an amazing difference because the quality & I suspect dynamic range & a reduction in the noise of the stylus bouncing around the much "quieter" material, was very noticeable. Thanks for your painstaking work on these projects very enjoyable & reminds me of the steps I'd take in the past to rectify shortcomings in equipment when we didn't have access to cheap methods of checking things out.

[@radiovalkyrierecords5102]

One thing to try - record them in stereo then use a M/S process to eliminate the "Side" (Difference) portion of the signal, leaving only the "Mid" (Sum) portion. Compare that to either just the left or right channel from the same stereo capture - giving you three different choices to use for the final mono file. I've personally found that the "Mid" portion usually sounds the best, and sometimes one channel or the other wins.

[@technology4617]

Are you familiar with the pspatialaudio Stereo Lab software?

[@RockyFluffyWhiskas]

Techmoan is the only expert I need to listen to 👍 I don’t have any lps, cass, cds, mini-discs anymore but it’s always interesting how Mat approach’s these formats. Back in the day I’m pretty sure we just played these formats as is, I know I did. I never had any speed apps or mats etc (as there wasn’t any) I played records slightly faster or slower, higher eq or lower - depending on what sounded better to me. “Experts” can continue talking about your power suppler being near the power plant, wires being made from virgin copper, speaker having the correct gauge coil and your room being on the moon to avoid noise pollution 🤦‍♂️

[@everlyman]

Enjoyed the video. I've a turntable that would have saved you a lot of trouble. It's a Goldring Lenco GL-75 with its variable speed drive system. Mine is paired with a Shure M78S cartridge on its own headshell for easy swapping with the 33/45 headshell and cartridge.

[@davidharris1817]

Dude has good sense :) I specialise in the GL75 with a mod kit, v blocks and the strobe of course :) GL75, a Linn LP12 beater :P

[@Vinyl4ever-Switzerland]

It is always a great pleasure to watch your very informative and humorous videos. Thanks and keep it up.

[@ogorekkiszony7236]

I notice the thorens player uses parts made by the polish company Unitra Fonica, which I believe went defunct in the early 90s. The lid in your player and also some of the mechanism is exactly the same as that in my Unitra Bernard gs-430.

[@symonbuck3911]

Another budget option, if you are just archiving recordings using Audacity, is to play the record at 45 rpm (with an appropriate 78 stylus of course) and to use the "Change Speed" option under the "Effects" tab. An increase of 173.3% will increase the speed to 78. Another important thing to note is that if you have a Mono switch, turn this on, as this will decrease the surface noise. If you are using a stereo cartridge the Left and Right positive outputs can be joined at the outputs of the cartridge.

[@sneskid78]

Since it’s going through a RIAA preamp, just make sure you run the inverse RIAA EQ filter in Audacity BEFORE the change speed feature. Then after changing the speed, apply the correct EQ for that particular 78.

[@eDoc2020]

There's no need for a mono switch since you can easily merge both channels in Audacity. I would say you should try to sample at least 96kHz when recording as otherwise you'll lose higher frequencies which would be audible if played natively at the correct speed.

[@dasreicht]

This came just in time - I just dug into my grandfather's old 78 collection last week, and there are a few, including his own recordings, I'd like to copy to another format. Never would've guessed the needle was different.

[@FatNorthernBigot]

I do love the gatefold demonstration of the needle/groove size. It took me right back to "Tomorrow's World".

[@harddriven1344]

R.I.P. Raymond Baxter

[@FatNorthernBigot]

@@harddriven1344 I was more of the Judith Hann era, but Baxter was pure class.

[@MetalJesusRocks]

I run across 78s occasionally but never really knew what to do with them. I found this video to be really interesting and educational! Great job!

[@dkoopman]

This is exactly what we need. good explanation, clear descriptions and also fun to watch. Keep it up!

[@duncanny5848]

Really interesting. I had NO IDEA about groove size differences being so large, or the effect on sound quality. I also remember those 'flip over' needles as well. And the record did sound better with the new needle as well.

[@antasosam8486]

The 78 actually may sound better with 1 mil stylus. Thing is, 78 records are usually heavy used and overused with 3 mil stylus or even steel one. So the bottom of the grove may actually be of better quality. From my own experience on legacy records.

[@DCIguy9]

My favorite game has become tracking down recordings I hear on this channel. Between Godfather Don, School Drugs, and now this cool one- off recording from 1939 you've somehow managed to cover all my musical interests.

[@naradaian]

For archiving the music/data With the right needle record at 33 or 45rpm and alter to 78 rpm on digi playback is a way of increasing quality as the needle isnt working so hard and likely rumble will be reduced as 78rpm can often be noisier mechanically

[@PenryMMJ]

Mat, that was brilliant. An absolute masterclass in how to troll an audiofool.

[@JacGoudsmit]

It measures the speed at the motor spindle, so I suspect that the speed problem was caused by a tiny bit of slippage of the belt, or by the pulley on the motor spindle getting a tiny bit smaller over the years either because of wear or because of age, because the pulley of the turntable got a fraction bigger in diameter. Either way, adjusting the speed was the right thing to do if it was off by that much (5% is almost a semitone).

[@mrnmrn1]

As I answered to several other commenters, my similar turntable from the same Polish OEM (Unitra) sped up after I oiled the motor bearings, and it also reduced mechanical noise dramatically.

[@manFromPeterborough]

2% is semitone 5% is way off

[@soepil]

Very interesting video. For playing 78s, I use my mother's 1962 Bang and Olufsen Beogram 1000 fitted with a 78 cartridge. I haven't thought about the mono button, though, but I'll try that.

[@davida1hiwaaynet]

Wow! That was such an improvement. I had no idea that there was such a difference in the stylus. As for the motor speed, I expect that gradual shifting of component values (including the trim-pots themselves) caused the speed loss. I think your adjustment was exactly the correct idea to correct it. The final demonstration with the new mono setup really sounds good. Love hearing how this should actually sound! It is so frustrating about the content matching issue. I do technical videos and have had to delete and re-do videos where I was talking and explaining something and background radio noise caused a claim. That is so frustrating!

[@fallenshallrise]

Videos like this, and my own experience, makes me question the history of recorded music and film sometimes. We are usually presented with weird cartoonish reproductions like cassette tapes that sound all warbly and tinny records with all kinds of rumbles and pops and VHS with static and bad tracking and flickery films where the sprocket holes are off the cogs but the film is still playing somehow. Knowing this you have to question all other reproductions we are shown like old paintings that are all dark browns or plain white statues and buildings that were all brightly coloured when they were created.

[@debranchelowtone]

For clicks in stereo, uses mid-side option in Adobe Audition, it removes half of the clicks from mono records.

[@thomaswilliams2273]

I was thinking that if you record in stereo then it would be possible, at least in the future, to eliminate all sounds not in both channels, reducing clicks.

[@Jako1987]

11:45 this audiophile drill gives your records woodgrain soft sound, brighter highs and deeper bass 😂 Fixing stuff Andrew Camarata style. I like.

[@filanfyretracker]

after having seen him show off a CD shaver, CD Demagnetizer, And other stuff that was clearly BS sold to audiophiles. I bet somewhere out there is audiophile drillbits for making speaker holes/ports in the box with claims of making a smoother hole for crisper bass or something. Naturally they are no different than the bits at the local hardware store.

[@leaveempty5320]

There were some 10" vinyl 78s around the transition to 7" 45s and they sound really quite good.

[@RJDA.Dakota]

I saw one of those actually played. The label was ABC Paramount, on a vinyl 78 RPM. The Sparkletones “Black Slacks”.

[@djhrecordhound4391]

There were many pressed in a vinyl-ish substance that every company had added their own name to, "...lite". MGM had "Metrolite", for example.

[@stofferrussell]

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I’d totally forgotten about the flip-over styli. I had one on my first portable record player as a kid.

[@DeLorean4]

To add even more to the complexity of 78s, not all companies, especially in the earlier years, had them spinning at 78 rpm. Regarding copyright strikes on music recorded on 78s, a lot of the time you can get away by arguing that the alleged copyright owner is trying to protect a later remaster instead of the original recording. Thanks for producing this video, 78s don't get the love they deserve.

[@kins749]

£25 + postage for 3 caps including a Rifa - someone's having a laugh!!!

[@davidwayneprins]

did not know the groove width was different on a 78. Learned something today.

[@niclaskarlin]

Technology connections has a recent video on this topic.

[@sneskid78]

Archivists have a set of different sized styli for this, as some 78s had even higher groove widths. Also, using a slightly larger stylus can help get around groove wear. I personally find quite a few of my 78s to sound better with the slightly larger 3.5mil stylus than the standard 78rpm 3mil stylus.