PLAY TO WIN vs THE FERVENT ALCHEMIST - KORVOLD vs KINNAN vs MAGDA vs RIGO

This week joined by Kai, the Fervent Alchymnist himself, as we try to figure out which one of our current PET DECKS is best in cEDH?
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[@nicklay4274]

Great game! Noticed a small optimisation at 11:18, Dylan could have sacrificed the Animate Dead to the Korvold attack trigger, which would then cause him to sac the dockside, netting him 2x Korvold triggers instead of one.

[@burnsboy101]

I noticed at small optimisation 🤓

[@joshbailey7775]

Got to me before I could 😂

[@AIMLESS-NAMELESS]

Ah I just commented this

[@Cupakabra77]

Went to make a comment about this lol 😂

[@horribleville]

Does animate dead not have a clause where if creature dies its sacrificed

[@jamesgreenwood1703]

I’ve never understood the argument of spite plays when someone is attempting to kill you. Just bc you are backed into a corner against something that will almost certainly kill you doesn’t mean lay there and take it. Feels like law of nature to fight until the end

[@maximeyer3151]

I 100% agree.

[@burningnyte]

I think of “spite plays” as long game thinking. You’ll never do something to me in a game and expect to come out unscathed.

[@jamesgreenwood1703]

@@burningnyte to me I think it comes down to how much a play can positively impact you. Maybe if you think of magic as short term game to game, using removal on something that’s still lethal may come off as a spite play but in my mind in the next game they might not attack me for lethal bc they know there are consequences meaning something that looked like a spite play originally just need a bit more context to understand.

[@burningnyte]

@@jamesgreenwood1703 that’s what I’m saying.

[@PALIGames]

Right if I'm losing, I'm making it harder for you to win

[@wyatt5450]

I'm turning into Cam and Dylan I swear. Getting cEdh Rocco and Korvold, thank you both

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Good call

[@damo9961]

I have both those decks, but I realize a Dockside ban craps on both of them. I think Korvold goes from decent Cedh deck to outdated and unplayed and people underestimate just how much Rocco relies on Dockside too.

[@jakemaxwell3810]

​@@damo9961 It would hurt, but Rocco would kind of just be fine as much as any other deck that played it. Korvold would really miss it, but would go back to playing Food Chain and would not be the end of the world. Also no shot they ban dockside. No casuals care about it at all and it's not really broken in cedh, just strong.

[@antonypistachio5476]

@@jakemaxwell3810 Not broken in CEDH? It's unanimously considered the best card in Commander lol

[@jakemaxwell3810]

@@antonypistachio5476 I respectfully don't think it's broken. It's great, but I don't think it creates bad games or play patterns.

[@ayllipkhieu8659]

I love Rigo. Just as much draw power as tymna in colors you don’t see often in cEDH. Super cool to see

[@Its-Lulu]

God damn guys that ended up being grindier than I thought it would be 😂

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Sometimes those are the best games

[@DexterityYTC]

I definitely think Cam’s choice to sac all his treasures was a spite play, but it’s the kind of spite play that doesn’t screw over a player, but rather makes the game more even for the remaining 2 players. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with doing that, I’m sure some might disagree, but making gameplay more interesting is always a positive to me.

[@Mad_Goblin_Engineer]

Then it’s not a spite play

[@ZauN91]

Lmao the filter on Tyler's death. I've quit mtg after getting alienated by their one set a month bs but your channel is as enjoyable to watch as it was in the beginning, thanks for the quality content.

[@kathleenmeyerowitz7187]

That is one of the dumbest takes i have ever heard

[@leem.9934]

Hell with it. I've subscribed. Hopefully I see what y'all can do with an Urabrask someday. Not a cEDH player myself, but this is actually fun to see.

[@yaakovkagel1015]

Loved the lists in this episode! Honestly, I love Tyler's Kinnan list. Perplexing Chimera is one of my favorite cards in casual and seeing it in CEDH is so fun! Tyler is a great deck pilot so I would really love to see him playing some other lists as well!

[@finlayfisken9817]

Yeah I wish kinnan/tyler actually did something this game lol, seemed like a slow hand to keep

[@cinosaurus]

4:09 “my time to shine” lol! Me, everytime I counter my playgroups win con

[@CosmicGiggalo]

That was a heck of a back and forth at the end to see who won!

[@MageSkeleton]

it was a very powerful matchup, and i feel like that preator's grasp pulling dockside out of magda crippled magda which tells me it needs some reworking and this is going to sound dumb but i recommend running the swords, including sword of the animist. It was satisfying that Kinnon got blown up relatively early.

[@jonathonfoster3942]

Thank you soooo much for doing good Korvold stuff! I've recently scrapped him, but won so much magic with him. (But Nooooo! You were suppose to sack Animate Dead so that yu would have gotten 2 draws).

[@jamescoulter267]

The Tyler kill animation was so good lol

[@middknight5202]

KAI WHY YOU NO BOUNCE KORVOLDYMORT AT THE END THERE, THEN E-WIT THE SNAP TO BOUNCE HIRELING DX then the next turn do it again with E-wit 2.0 to save some time? Great game went a lot longer than expected! Cedh games like these make the format much more appealing! Thanks gents!

[@ferventalchemist]

I WAS HAVING FUN BRO I FORGOT

[@void91g]

Quick Draw format: start 7 cards of choice in hand to start - standard from there - play test power combos god hands

[@Eric_theMAD_King]

Great gameplay, that's why this channel is the standard. It's organic and great charisma. Really love the team at PtW. Also love seeing Korvold 😎

[@janmelantu7490]

(You don’t lost the game if you’ve already won) -Reminder text on the Warriors’ Oath, the P3K functional reprint of Final Fortune

[@loganschwartz4790]

So korvold is my actually cedh deck that I built with minimal proxies. Only 4 in the deck. It's a food chain deck with dockside loops if I need to treasure storm.

[@Joeshoerb]

What were those mana and treasure tokens that Dylan was using? They were super sweet!

[@BiCuriousGeorge1]

The epic storm’s Bryant cook makes them

[@TheBowlingfanatic]

Korvold is incredibly strong! Been playing him in the last 5 cEDH tournaments I've gone to. Seeing him take a win here is awesome! Anyone that wants to get more involved with Korvold, the discord is always popping!

[@deathbeard8308]

Love the Korvold play, I play it with food chain combo tho and few others, its easy to tutor for goblins

[@lisaparker271]

That was an amazing game for korvold, i love how much value he produces. I am looking at more commanders that gain value from non etb sources as eleshmom has been more prevelant in my meta.

[@speljester]

Where are the mana tokens from. I looked in the mech store but to no avail. They really make it easier to follow the action, thanks for using them.

[@thatguy2781]

I don't know if you had this idea or made video about it. But what is the best Farm deck in CEDH, that'll be very cool to see

[@TheColts714]

Question were did you purchase those small treasure tokens that flip into mana there pretty cool.

[@Egovinco98]

11:15 if you sacrifice animate dead, you gain an extra korvold trigger - i see now a lot of others pointed it out too. so nvm

[@Ominous_severus]

Hey guys what are those mana and trigger and treasure tokens you used? where can i get those?

[@ryannaylor3982]

Anyone know where you can get those floating mana tokens?

[@andythomas6236]

Playing korvold in a tournament next month 1st place gets a bayou. I'd love to see your deck list!!!!

[@GrandPrimus]

This one was awesome. Love a good, decent midrange game.

[@gordypordy7379]

Absolute W Video like always. MORE KINNAN MORE MAGDA MORE ZUR MORE ZAXARA MORE URZA ETC. EVERYTHING!

[@danielpatriquin972]

Combos are fine in casual. Just notify the table before the game begins and don't cry when you get swung at. Life total is not a fair representation of your capacity to win if you combo so you should be targeted first if you play combos. Deck construction overall is the biggest issue with playing combos. If you only have interaction in your deck to protect the combo, you may upset the table. If you tutor for a combo early, you may upset the table. If you play a commander that combos with one other card and itself, you may upset the table. If your deck is nothing but staples and combos, you may upset the table. If you have a 8.5 or a CEDH shell and you combo you may upset the table. If you play fast mana and combo, you may upset the table. If you combo before turn 6 to 8 consistently, you may upset the table. That being said at the end of the day everybody should play the deck that they enjoy regardless. Build decks responsibly. Just be mindful that commander is fun because it is a group activity and other players want to enjoy the game also.

[@aHairyBaboon]

Cam, you have 5 left and the big yellow one is the sun :)

[@mitsosoftheelves]

Over-the-top game!

[@baz_wtf]

Great game! 🎉

[@mtgspanglish731]

Watching this, while 5 minutes ago was holding my korvold deck thinking to take it apart.

[@Highwang]

lmao what was that AMV-esque edit at 11:31?

[@chisatofleck2387]

Where can I find those good lookin Mana Tokens and Treasures which Dylan used in the Game? Would love to buy them.

[@wasabi521]

Quick question how does Rigo win? Maybe I’m missing something but how does one empty the library that I’m missing.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Hermit druid!

[@aidanschauer1581]

What an awesome game!

[@brentdeacon9218]

@playtowin I NEED those mana/treasure tokens, where can I get them?

[@TripsAhoy]

That was def a grindy finish! ❤❤❤

[@slappkake2953]

I wonder how the game would’ve gone if Kai cyc rifted the deathrite to guarantee the extra turn.

[@Mad_Goblin_Engineer]

Prob forgot deathrite text. There’s a lot on that card.

[@musashibriem1352]

That turned into a gd rock fight at the end 😂

[@smitchy657]

Super cool to have seen a game with a slightly varied way of winning, as compared to the standard/repetitive way your decks seem to normally win 😁

[@josecuervo3086]

i love seeing a korvold deck do korvold things 🖤

[@dasfabelwesen]

When you sac animate dead instead of dockside you get 2 draws, no?

[@ChrisWilliams-hk3wn]

Hey guys looking at the decklist. Why no hoarding broodlord lines if you don't mind me asking? Korvold was my intro to cedh and kind of want to rebuild him

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

This was filmed when spoilers where still coming out and since it was my first run through of the deck I didn’t wanna rock the boat too much at first

[@ChrisWilliams-hk3wn]

​@Play to Win understandable. Figured it was filmed then lol. How do you feel about hoarding broodlord for the deck tbo?

[@alexquinton5462]

What are those mana tokens? And where can I purchase?

[@alexquinton5462]

Don’t just heart my comment answer the question! Lol

[@jamallynch1218]

Great game

[@manadorkuk]

Ooooooph what a game

[@christianjackson6884]

Dylan could've sacrificed the animate dead instead oh the dockside itself at about 11:10 to get 2 draw triggers no? "Not trying to be mean or anything sorry if it comes off that way.

[@crackerjack_games]

Defs not King Making… cost of doing business. Also, GRV for illegal land drop😅

[@kevintiemann6875]

Can someone please explain the “spite” play to me?

[@therealax6]

Sacrificing the treasures when losing the game was guaranteed. One could say that it's a spite play because the only purpose of sacrificing those treasures, making mana that he knew would most likely go unspent as he lost the game, was to deny Dylan extra treasures. I don't think it's a spite play, but that's the argument for it.

[@jonlamoreaux1889]

I hate the term spite play. I mean it's a game, and you're threatening to take someone out, so why wouldn't that person take a few game actions before getting killed?

[@therealax6]

Spite plays definitely exist. But discouraging a player from taking you out is not one: it's a legitimate play with a direct in-game benefit. I'd say spite plays are plays whose motivation isn't any in-game benefit: for instance, countering a spell from someone who very clearly isn't a threat just to ruin their turn when someone else is threatening a win on their next untap.

[@TheHippieDrood]

where did you get those mana tokens from Dylan?

[@thekilla1234]

True spite plays are very rare to come across and I think the term is used way too loosely and incorrectly by players. Trading off resources with the player that takes you out is a cost they must consider for taking you out. If they require the other player to put their hands up, do nothing and surrender in order to win afterwards then they should not make the move on the player they are taking out. The player getting taken out has incentive to respond this way otherwise the other player knows they can get away with it. Even if you only ever play 1 game with a person you should assume both players are playing optimally and that they know you will retaliate when they take you out. If an AI learnt to play commander it would do exactly what Cam did every time. A true spite play is something like "You killed my commander so I'm gonna kill your commander" when neither player is threatening a win so the play does nothing to take steps towards a win and is simply "I didn't like what you did to my thing so I'm gonna do it to your thing". Players rarely do this of course because it is a true spite play and neither player benefits.

[@therealax6]

I'd say a spite play is a play whose motivation is not some in-game benefit. Increasing the cost of taking you out (and thus discouraging it) is clearly an in-game benefit and thus not a spite play at all.

[@tigersharktcg3971]

havnt watched the video yet but WHOOOOOO KORVOLD Gameplay

[@khazixthevoidreaver9499]

"that geen guy", 2 funny

[@ericadams2045]

How come dockside doesn’t go back to Cam after it dies?

[@therealax6]

The one that died repeatedly was Dylan's own Dockside, not the one he stole from Cam's deck. The one he stole was alive the entire game until Cam lost the game (at which point it leaves the game).

[@notjohn2774]

Late night upload, couldn't sleep so this was nice lmao

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Perfect

[@geoffreygarfein9169]

How much would it cost for me to get a play mat like Dylan’s!?!?!?!?!?!

[@Skywarp2099]

When in doubt, Jund them out.

[@timtauber5557]

I must assume Tyler kept a bad starting hand.

[@Ichtotenn]

Spite-ning bolt

[@localemocowboy5500]

JUND JUND JUND

[@whitesmith5985]

I love kinnan but feel Iike we see too much of him. Obviously for this one it's alright because it's a pet deck but just in general

[@kellyperry5009]

Hail to the Dragon King 🤴 🙌

[@deadNdivine12]

What a silly game. Good stuff fellas.

[@benjaminking3677]

Alright you saw it here first. Korvold voltron is a viable cEDH strategy lol

[@Vagrantlol]

did i have a stroke halfway through this episode?

[@timtauber5557]

Great (R) cost red entomb, Buh bye underworld breach lol. Ya win some ya lose some.

[@tonyorazio1122]

Fat Pikachu is best Pikachu

[@lomo918]

Bring back Korvold!

[@marlonlam6959]

Smooth ass wishclaw

[@TheWaffleDad]

+

[@eggsaviator1224]

Someday nath stax will return

[@MCKICKZ]

Oh look it's Kinnan😅

[@PhoenixRNH]

Korvold go brr

[@P3rvenc]

I dont think that "spite play" is ever relevant. I was playing a tournament once and before i died i removed permanents from the guy that was going to kill me with a lightning bolt before i died. Later in another game someone could have killed me or another dude, he said that he would kill the other dude because i might do something before dying, that made me go to top 4 and not top 8. So actively acting before dying make people thhink twice before killing you on later games.

[@P3rvenc]

That also aply on pods that are only between friends of course

[@DrkNinja_]

Guys I want you to know I personally have adopted your "If your dead, your dead. Don't spite play" I think it keeps the competitive integrity of the game and it doesn't piss people off. However... none of my playgroup will adopt it, they're all "well you should have to suffer for attacking me" which is stupid because you are taking actions that are not oriented to winning. I also made a tiktok about this and every single person disagreed with it and said I was being dumb... ugh.

[@jareddavenport1631]

I want to play to win in amerrrrrrrrrrrrricaaaa

[@BuleGamer96]

Gg

[@benjaminwiler8271]

Glad to see that Tyler is trying something new! Always good to step out of your comfort zone!

[@daybreak817]

Love seeing Kai on here, he rocks.

[@faperito2389]

Solid mf

[@dave7592]

The amount of things Dylan was able to pull turn 2-3 is insane.

[@Samothrace808]

“I got 6 at the sun stare!” If you thought that quote would go unacknowledged this is me acknowledging it. A classic.

[@PubStompMTG]

Just like Sheldon Menery intended commander to be! To beat each other with a huge commander!

[@damo9961]

That guy never invented EDH it was played for 10 years before he got his grubby hands on it LOL. We used to play it during Nationals and Regionals as a way to unwind.

[@Demon_of_Razgriz]

Gamble AKA Red Entomb strikes again. Also the amount of Korvold I'm seeing lately is so much fun. Fun commander

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Korvolds been getting a lot of new toys

[@wyatt5450]

Korvold always has the toys to play with

[@Flip4Crypt]

This was a really great episode! Loved the gameplay and the energy from everyone at the table! Great video as always guys! Also, I could be wrong, but I agree with Cam with that last play- I think there is a cost to killing a player- even if it's just a bolt to the face, it's not a spite play because it doesn't effect your win, but you did need to pay some kind of cost to kill Cam

[@aja582]

Dylan what the fuck it’s midnight

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Lol this one took some extra time

[@LemorasCards]

Love seeing some MAD King representation on the channel.

[@BrunoCereza]

Where can i get those mana tokens Dylan was using? 😁

[@bigscrub1875]

I was just looking for some Korvold content!! Nice timing 😂

[@christopherpatricklizares5306]

Interesting quirk: if the Animate Dead attached to the Dockside was sacrificed to Korvold, the Animate Dead would cause the Dockside to be sacrificed. This would draw an extra card. Loved the video! Thanks for all your hard work, guys!

[@raedien]

Another great video. Wife saw and loved the Skull playmat. Just ordered two.

[@maximeyer3151]

Great Match, sick decks, awesome guests and excellent entertainment 👍 I don't know how to say this, because I don't want to be disrespectful. Maybe your Patrons want/like that (if that's their whish, then I'm sorry and please forget this post), but I really don't like your "new" outro... Sometimes less is more. I'm currently not sharing your new videos with friends who don't know your channel, because the outro feels hella cringe to me. Maybe it's just me, or I'm just to old... Please don't get me wrong, I love you guys, your channel and your energy. I just wanted to offer some "constructive" criticism. Peace

[@davidmiller818]

Please please che k out my korvold list!! I has more ways to shimmer or reanimated dockside and the outlet to win outside of witherbloom and chain of smog is tied to how big korvold gets!! It's my absolute favorite deck. Very reactive and resilient!!

[@whitesmith5985]

I also think that with Cam at the end, what he did wasn't a spite play because that's a cost for killing the player. Like if you're gonna kill me, I'm not going to pick you some flowers, I'll make it clear in advanced that if they kill me, the cost of doing so is me throwing whatever I have at them. So it's not a spite play, it's a cost that I'm going to keep my word on.