Plectrums for classical mandolin

[@amundtranvag3557]

I made some timestamps for my own sake and figured I could just as well share them with everyone: How the shape and thickness of the plectrum affects sound: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27:28 & 38:58 2:03 - Roman tortiose shell plectrums: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4:29 - Plectrum No.1 : Roman plectrum 0.7 mm thick. Little rounded point(Sound test at 5:29) 6:10 - Plectrum No.2 : Roman plectrum 1.7 mm thick. Similair to previous(No. 1), but much ticker. Makes a much more rounded sound than the previous one 7:15 - Plectrum No.3 : Roman plectrum 1.7 mm. As thick as previous (No. 2), but a much more pointier point. Clearer and brighter sound than the previous one 8:04 - Plectrum No.4 : Roman plectrum. Smaller than previous one. A little bit too rounded and wide. Okay on normal playing, but makes a side noise on tremolo 9:40 - Plectrum No.5 : Roman plectrum. Smaller in size but similair point/end as No. 1. The end/point determines most of the sound, not the size of the plectrum 11:18 - Plectrum No.6 : Roman plectrum 1 mm thick in the middle. Quite thick for a small plectrum, quite warm sound because of its thickness 12:38 - Oud Plectrum: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12:38 - Plectrum No.7 : Oud plectrum in tortoise shell. Used on the oud instrument, but produces a quite good sound on mandolin as well 14:28 - Neapolitan tortoise shell plectrums -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15:40 - Plectrum No.8 : Neapolitan plectrum. Old tortoise shell. Bad shape, but good for shaping your own plectrum 16:00 - Plectrum No.9 Neapolitan plectrum 12:17 - Plectrum No.10 : Neapolitan plectrum. A little too wide, makes too much plectrum noise during tremolo 17:23 - Plectrum No.11 : Neapolitan plectrum 0.6 - 0.65 mm thick. Interesting, has almost the same shape as roman plectrum. Quite bright sound if you prefer that 18:27 - Plectrum No.12 : Neapolitan plectrum. Quite similair to the previous one(No. 11), but little smaller and thinner. Good for practising tremolo, but too thin and makes a lot of plectrum noise 18:52 - Plectrum No.13 : Neapolitan plectrum. Quite similair to previous one(No. 12). Too thin, creates scratching sound on the strings 19:21 - Interesting plectrum shaped by French mandolin virtuoso -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19:21 - Plectrum No.14: Very small, less flexibility because of its size. Makes a fuller sound even though it is quite thin 21:17 - Guitar plectrum (Shape more suitable for guitars) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21:17 - Plectrum No.15 : Guitar Tortoise shell. Meant for guitar, not bad with normal playing, but much plectrum noise during tremolo 21:57 - Plectrum No.16 : Guitar Celluoid. Similair ar previous(No. 15), but made out of celluoid. A little bit more rouded sound 22:17 - Roman Celluoid plectrums: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22:26 - Plectrum No.17 : Roman plectrum. Not good, too thick and the edges are not rounded. Not sure if it is celloid 22:46 - Plectrum No.18 : Roman celloid plectrum. Much better than the previous one(No. 17). A little bit too thin, good for tremolo practise. "Side noises quite remarkable" 23:16 - Plectrum No.19 : Roman celloid plectrum. Quite similair to previous one, but thicker. 23:56 - Neapolitan celloid plectrums -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23:58 - Galli plectrums: Light 0.6 mm, medium 0.8 mm, heavy 1 mm. (Modern avaiable to buy) 24:22 - Plectrum No.20 : Neapolitan plectrum. Galli Light 0.6mm. Really flexible, good for practising tremolo (Modern avaiable to buy) 24:40 - Plectrum No.21 : Neapolitan plectrum. Galli Medium 0.7mm. Better sound than the previous one, quite bright sound if your prefer that (Modern avaiable to buy) 25:30 - Plectrum No.22 : Neapolitan plectrum. Galli Heavy 1 mm. If your prefer a more rounded sound (Modern avaiable to buy) 26:28 - Plectrum No.23 : Neapolitan plectrum. Old Celloid neapolitan. Too thin, good for tremolo practise, but not good sound 27:02 - Plectrum No.24 : Neapolitan plectrum. Quite rounded and thin 28:22 - Plectrum No.25 : Neapolitan plectrum. Something similar but with a cork grip 29:11 - Plectrum No.26 : Neapolitan plectrum. Dunlop celloid. Very interesting, very good sound out of the box. Comparable to galli plectrums, but have smoother sound (Modern avaiable to buy) 31:28 - Plectrum No.27 : Neapolitan plectrum. Modfied Galli. Narrower shape, which makes it more flexible 32:17 - Japanese Plectrums -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32:31 - Plectrum No.28 : Japanese celloid plectrum. 0.7 - 0.8 mm in thickness. Similair point to a roman plectrum, good sound 33:40 - Plectrum No.29 : Japanese Nylon plectrum. Nylon -> hearing the texture of the material. A scratching sound 34:16 - Nylon Dunlop Plectrums(0.73, 0.88, 1mm) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34:24 - Plectrum No.30 : Nylon Dunlop 0.73 mm. 34:35 - Plectrum No.31 : Nylon Dunlop 0.88 mm. 34:54 - Plectrum No.32 : Nylon Dunlop 1 mm. 35:47 - Ivory imitation plectrums -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35:56 - Plectrum No.33 : Howart Ivory Imitation. Too thin, very flexible 36:13 - Plectrum No.34 Ivory imitation. A little bit less flexible compared to the previous one(No. 33), but still too flexible 36:26 - Plectrum No.35 : Ivory Imitation. 0.6 - 0.7 mm thick. Quite good 37:19 - Clayton plectrums -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37:35 - Plectrum No.36 : Clayton plectrum. Quite okay 38:07 - Horn plectrums -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38:07 - Plectrum No.37 : Horn plectrum. Good on guitar, and not on mandolin 38:40 - Plectrum No.38 : Horn plectrum. Way too thick and no flexibility 39:37 - Django button plectrum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39:37 - Plectrum No.39 : Django button plectrum. Way too wide 40:16 - German Nylon/Rubber plectrum(Wolle) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 40:40 - Plectrum No.40 : German plectrum. Takes away the high harmonics, makes the mandolin sound really different 41:27 - German Curiosity -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 41:27 - Plectrum No.41 : Germancuriosity. Imitate pizzicato

[@ralfleenen]

Thanks, very interesting, even for me! :-)

[@amundtranvag3557]

@@ralfleenen I am glad that it was of use/interest for you as well :-)

[@ralfleenen]

@@amundtranvag3557 I put this comment on top so everyone can easily find it! Many thanks again! 👍

[@Gamvrelis]

A very important and thorough presentation - thank you! Please consider following up with a tutorial video about shaping and polishing various plectrums.

[@elba9066]

Thank you for an informative, comprehensive, and player-focused introduction, review and demonstration giving pitfalls and hints. I am glad you are going to show how to reshape a plectrum

[@davidmolloy126]

Thank you so much for a wonderful video.

[@zampo5709]

Wonderful sound this mandolin !!! Thanks very much !!! i try always, me too, different plectrums !!! GOOD !!!

[@ralfleenen]

Thanks! Yes indeed, it is best to try many different things and trust your ears to decide what you want to use :-)

[@zekehutchison5672]

Excellent topic! I am looking forward to the video dealing with reshaping and polishing.To my ear real tortoise around 1 mm is superior. Thanks for doing this video series. This will be a reference for years.

[@edg3491]

Fascinating analysis!! And very helpful! I now use a Dunlop 1.3mm sculpted, a Galli heavy and found one that I also like, a Trekel, from I think, Hamburg. Thank you for your detailed very well presented study of classical plectrums. Educational, and enjoyable!

[@mccypr]

Great stuff! Thanks! 🌞😎✌️🎻

[@Dwoed]

Great playing, midievel styl. Grt.

[@joebartl4617]

Another masterful presentation of an incredible amount of information. As someone earlier remarked, this will be a lasting reference for mandolin plectrum information, especially for the variation in sound/tone created by various materials. Wonderful. Thanks.

[@ovidenov]

Excellent topic for which there are not so much detailed information. Thanks for sharing your knowledge Ralf !.

[@张文君-x1v]

That was a very good work, thank you!

[@mir9302]

Your playing is so beautiful! Can you by any chance give a model number on that Dunlop plectrum?

[@ralfleenen]

Thanks! The Dunlop is a medium teardrop 485 in celluloid. You can also get a medium Fender 347, which is exactly the same as far as I can tell. They're both excellent!

[@jeremyhoyland3229]

Thanks for the video, I don't think I have found my ideal one yet, so there's a few ideas to try here. I am keen to see the video on plectrum shaping and smoothing, I have tried reshaping some but am sure it could be done better.

[@amundtranvag3557]

Thanks for a very interesting and thorough video about an important but often neglected topic! I would love to see a video where you make a roman plectrum from scratch from a plate of celluoid, as sadly there isn't many options out there in acquiring newly made roman plectrums, in my knowledge there is only Redbear who makes them, but limited to one thickness and shape. I use the Redbear plectrum, and is quite satisfied with it, but this video inspired me to want to make my own and experiment in regards to thicknesses and sound to find what suits my own preferances. I must also say that you have been a huge inspiration for me starting with classical mandolin, and I have now almost played a year. And this week I am getting a better instrument, I am getting an original Embergher No. 2 from 1919, which I tried a week ago and I am really excited about!

[@ralfleenen]

Thanks for your very nice comments! Regarding the Roman plectrums, I would love to help you, but could you send me an e-mail, that will be easier to exchange some information. :-) A N°2 from 1919 should be a very good instrument, I'd love to see some photos when you have it!

[@amundtranvag3557]

@@ralfleenen I have now sent you an email :-) I have used the Embergher a few weeks now, and I am in love with it. Really enjoy the narrower neck, as well as its sound. I sent with some photoes of it

[@fabiocalzavara6493]

Hello Ralf. Quite interesting indeed!... Have you ever tried those massive "Blue Chip" picks, mostly enjoyed by the Blue Grass enthusiasts? ( just for fun. What a crazy thing to do on the classical mandolin!)

[@ralfleenen]

Hi Fabio, No in fact I didn't know those picks ... just looked them up, and they appear to be brown! (I expected blue :-). They look like interesting material, but probably too thick for my taste. The one that might work well on (classical) mandolin (or rather mandola) is the TD35 (0.89mm). They're expensive too ... probably because they're hand made/finished.

[@RobMacKillop1]

A timely video, as I have been experimenting with various plectra for the last two weeks. I don't have any original tortoiseshell plectra, but have found the Galli to be excellent. The best guitar plectrum I have found suitable is the Dunlop Ultex. But the main comment I wish to make is how magnificent your mandolin sounds, and how wonderful your playing is! Another fine video, Ralf. Keep them coming!

[@ralfleenen]

Thanks Rob, I should try the Dunlop ultra on guitar. Over the years I've found that the sound of a mandolin greatly depends on the strings and the plectrum. It's remarkable how a cheap set of traditional round wound strings and a simple celluloid plectrum can provide an excellent sound on most well made mandolins.

[@luigidambra2523]

Thank you to show all these plectrums. I've tried the Galli ones. For me they have a good shape, sound, and material. They lasts very long time. Re-thinking i've used and sometimes use plectrum in nylon, as Dunlop you showed there, but i find them not too consistent the light ones, and with not right flexibility the harder... i used also Clayton, but i don't like materials under the fingers. I liked to use something about Pickboy. Not easy to find, the right ones coming from a mine old buying for guitar

[@mandolin-george-uk]

A very comprehensive video. Probably one of the best on the internet. I am struggling to find a solution as I move from Classical, Bowlback , Bluegrass F shape and Celtic A shaped mandolin . I prefer the tone of thicker gauge (1 to 1.5) unless strumming at speed (.7 to 1 ) . I need to improve my pick selection. Any views on optimum gauges for the various genres and mandolin types. I am considering the Dunlop Jazz III prime tones range. I am impressed with the warmth of the tone you can get from the mandolin on this video - ps What is the make / model ?

[@paganiniarts7731]

I had ordered three Roman plectrums from REDBEAR in the USA. With import tax and VAT and shipping at the end they costed me 120.-€ :-) But they are good and they are made of Galalith! Thank you for your fundamental advice!

[@ralfleenen]

I've actually never tried these Redbear plectrums. They seem very thick, but if they work well for you, that's excellent!

[@paganiniarts7731]

@@ralfleenen My wife says: " But they don't play by themselves... " (means = I should practice more).

[@ralfleenen]

@@paganiniarts7731 that really is the best possible advice for everyone! 👍

[@jorisArt]

Fantastic video. Thank you. I am playing classical mandolin on an Eastman MD604 and I think the sound is not loud enough and not round enough. Can you recommend a mid-price instrument (1000 eur or so) that might be a step up?

[@criaturaimaginaria5230]

well.... it will take years to find the one I like, I'll take it as a challenge jaja. Great video! sometimes this subjet does not have the importance it deserves

[@ralfleenen]

Thanks! It shouldn't take years though to find a plectrum that you like. I'll show in one of the next videos how you can modify one to your taste by reshaping and polishing it.

[@criaturaimaginaria5230]

@@ralfleenen thanks Ralf, that will be amazing :)

[@baroqueguitarist5673]

I really love your channel. I'm glad I found it. I've always loved the sound of harpsichords but not a piano type instrument person. Is there a way to use a quill or a soft plectrum like the one used on harpsichords to get as close to a harpsichord tone as possible on mandolin ? Harpsichords I think use bird quill or leather plectrums very soft. Have you ever come across anything that would get me as close as possible ? Thanks subscribed. Again love your channel. Learning so much and truely enjoying your playing. Wishing you the best in your career

[@ralfleenen]

Thanks for your appreciation! I think you can indeed get close to a harpsichord sound by using a thin plectrum, but the exact same material and thickness as is used in a harpsichord would not be ideal for a mandolin for a few reasons: the plectrums on a harpsichord are extremely short and therefore have more resistance and are less flexible than a longer version of the same thing. In order to get the same result with a longer plectrum, it should be somewhat thicker in order to get the same resistance and not too much of a "clicking" noise. Buto a standard "thin" celluloid plectrum should be a good starting point. What is at least as important as the plectrum is the kind of strings you use. What kind of mandolin are you playing? I'm happy to help you find a good combination, but maybe easier by email if you could send me a message at [e-mail]. Thanks!

[@baroqueguitarist5673]

@@ralfleenen I sent you an email to the email address you gave me. Not sure if I got the email address correct and you successfully got the email. All The Best Happy Holidays

[@sandee71]

Brother , can u please , kindly explain how play b major sale ( 3rd fret on g string , is 1st note ) and similarly f major scale ( 3rd fret on d string). I practice it with left hand middle finger on 1st note.

[@tadedeina443]

Dear Ralf, Thank you so much for these videos! It is not often that one can listen to such detailed information from such knowledgeable people. I like very much your calmness and composure; also hope that a speck of sadness stems only from the lack of musical happenings. And thank you for sharing your passion of the Roman mandolin tradition with us! It is amazing to hear your experiences, the historical facts, the different mandolins, your playing... Compliments also on the great sound and video quality! In topic - have you ever tried shaping a plectrum from POM plastic? I sometimes mess around with shapes and materials and lately I like this one a lot for its ease of sliding across the strings (I am rather averagely skilled). It will produce a mellower and softer sound than celluloid I believe, quite less bright though. p.s. 1 If we can in turn contribute to your efforts - I'm in. :) p.s. 2 Do you have in your possession or knowledge or played any roman mandolins from other historical makers? I was lucky to find a G.Tartaglia (Devenuti?) mandolin and a G.Gallesi (he might have been less faithful to the general roman design); they are so interesting. p.s. 3 Listening to your Bach G minor sonata and remembering a Händel recording you had on your site, would you know if there is a recording of Halvorsen's Passacaglia -or even the original Händel one- on the mandolin?

[@ralfleenen]

Thanks for your kind comments. Regarding the video quality, I do my best to make it acceptable. For the sound recording I do know what I'm doing in order to get fine quality:-) I think someone made me some POM plastic Roman plectrums years ago. They are either white or black, is that possible? The sound is indeed a bit mellow, and they feel rather slippery, except the black ones, strangely. I do prefer celluloid for the sound though, but if you like a more mellow sound, they can be a good alternative. PS1 : your support and appreciation here on KZbin are more than fine, thanks! PS2 : I'm an Embergher/Cerrone/Pecoraro/... addict, but there certainly are many other excellent (Roman and other) mandolin makers. Tartaglia, although I haven't played any, the ones I've seen were really high quality, so I expect them to be very fine mandolins. I haven't really seen or played any Gallesi mandolin. PS3 : That is really nice music and I haven't recorded it (yet), but if you want to listen to my favourite recordings: - Heifetz & Piatigorsky, violin&cello : kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIPJiHqrn9R2nJo - Heifetz & Primrose, violin & viola : kzbin.info/www/bejne/foapaqGberNrZ6s

[@OneHalfR]

@@ralfleenen Yes, indeed, these are the two colors that POM is typically manufactured. Not sure about the sound qualities of the Tartaglia, since unfortunately the soundboard needed extensive repairs and cannot tell if this is its original voice. The Gallesi is surprisingly clear and loud, but - I think - less profound and delicate than the Emberghers... -- though all this taken with a grain of salt. Thank you for the Passacaglia suggestions. These are my favourites too! (Irrelevant, but I really hope there can be a chance of republishing the Embergher book in the future... I also wish there was a luthier talking about the technical details of their construction and high performance, but I understand that there are people making their living out of these constructions, so ... )

[@sandee71]

Thanks for nice important information.I use on my mandolin ,for scale practices , sarod plectrum of thickness 5 mm(approx). it's very much difficult to play with such beefy plectrum.whats your opinion , shall I continue practice with this plectrum

[@ralfleenen]

Thank you for your kind comment. In my opinion 5mm is too thick for playing mandolin, because of the high tension of the strings. A thick plectrum is more suitable for larger instruments with lower string tension, like guitar size instruments and instruments with nylon or gut strings. However, if it works well for you and you like the sound, you should of course use it. For mandolin I would recommend thickness between 0,6 and 1,2mm, depending on the shape of the point and the material of the plectrum. I mostly use plectrums around 0.8mm. As you are used to a thick plectrum, I would recommend to try classic celluloid Fender heavy 351, 354 or 358 (I prefer medium instead of heavy, but heavy gives a more round sound). Also Jim Dunlop celluloid 485 medium or heavy are very good. Can you find Fender or Dunlop plectrums in India? Let me know if I can help ...

[@sandee71]

@@ralfleenen Sir , many thanks for important and quick reply.In mumbai ,I will try to find the fender plectrums u mentioned. I am using a local cheap mandolin with Alice strings. If I practice with 3 mm plectrum for a week then playing with thin plectrums turns easy.

[@arijitdey2574]

Sir, pls kindly tell us dunlop(12piece packaging ) celluloid, that one you said pretty impressive, which mm thickness that is? 1.3or 0.75? Kindly plz informed us?

[@ralfleenen]

Hello Sir, The Dunlop I tried in this video is the "485" teardrop shape medium thickness in celluloid. I measured it and it is 0.75mm. In the meanwhile, I also tried Fender "354" shape (which is not in this video), and it is also excellent and for me at least as good as the Dunlop. It is also celluloid (imitation tortoiseshell) and medium thickness. It is slightly smaller than the Dunlop 485. If you have difficulty finding it or other questions, please send me an email : [e-mail]

[@arijitdey2574]

@@ralfleenen Thank you so much for your kind reply !... With my best regards from India!🙏🙏❤️

[@T.J]

@@ralfleenen thanks from France :)

[@krishnaprema108]

Grazie Ralf, io ti auguro tutto il Bene :-) Hare Krishna .-) !

[@ralfleenen]

Ciao Marco, scusami per la risposta tardiva, ma ho visto il tuo messaggio solo oggi ... non so perchè... Spero che tutto vada bene e ti auguro anche tutto il meglio, salute e amicizia!

[@DocRossi]

Thanks for this extensive review. What do you think of Tortex?

[@ralfleenen]

I don't have any Tortex plectrums, but I have tried some quite a few years ago. If I remember right I had the same feeling as with nylon: the texture of the material is not as smooth as celluloid or tortoiseshell, so you feel (and hear) that slightly. That's why I've never been tempted to buy them, but it's not necessarily a huge problem. It's quite possible that this is far less noticeable to an audience than to the player. If it sounds good on your mandolin and you like the feeling and sound, by all means use it!

[@DocRossi]

@@ralfleenen Thanks

[@paolobattista4145]

Hi, would you tell me an online shop where you can buy mandolin picks. Thanks.

[@ralfleenen]

Hello, The Galli plectrums can be ordered from their website www.gallistrings.com/accessori/plettri , the other Dunlop and Fender are available on many webshops worldwide. You just have to choose depending on your location in order to have reasonable shipping costs. Are you located in Italy/Europe or US?

[@paolobattista4145]

@@ralfleenen Thanks so mach. I live in Italy.

[@paolobattista4145]

@@ralfleenen I use the Dogal plectrums.

[@ralfleenen]

Excellent, so there is no problem to get plectrums from Galli :-) Or is it not Galli you are looking for but something else?

[@ralfleenen]

I haven't tried dogal plectrums since many years. If I remember right their surface has some texture which makes them less smooth than tortoiseshell or celluloid. Which type do you use, thin medium or heavy? They don't seem to be available on their webshop right now : www.dogalstrings.it/en/plettri

[@kevinwalsh1400]

nobody said ...take your pick!