Ploopy Adept vs SlimBlade & Expert

[@TheLazyJAK]

Thanks for the great video. The Adept actually has a mod that allows you to use ball bearings instead of the roller ones, although I've tried neither I imagine they're quieter, and allow more freedom.

[@purplelord8531]

"I'm lucky that way" what a way to look at the glass half full! thanks for doing these reviews!

[@lefnire]

Love it, I didn't think of the positive spin!

[@glyph6757]

This is one of the best reviews of anything that I've seen on youtube. It's great to see a review from someone in the enthusiast community cover every pro and con of the device, with detailed explanations of real-world use cases and why someone might want this or that feature, along with point-by-point comparisons of every detail of the three devices. Fantastic job! I have the X-Keys L-Trac myself, and while I do like it from an ergonomic standpoint and have no complains about smoothness of the ball motion, I do find myself sometimes missing exact placement on just the right pixel (which sounds like what you were talking about at around the 15 minute mark in your video). My main complaint about the L-Trac, however, is the scrollwheel, which is very imprecise and unreliable. I often find myself shooting way past the point I want to scroll to unless I scroll really slow, which is very frustrating. The trackball case is really big too, and wired-only, which makes it a hassle to use while travelling. Having a small, portable, wireless trackball are the main reasons I'm considering getting a Ploopy Adept even though I'm mostly satisfied with the L-Trac.

[@lefnire]

I didn't know about those complaints about the L-Trac, that's good to know! I haven't gotten to try it yet, and I feel like the lack of complaints is due to the underdog aspect; people who own it likely have for a good long while, and it was the best at the time. I can't recommend the Adept enough; I've switched to it entirely since this video, SlimBlade is my backup. I almost never have to clean the Adept, the scrolling is best-in-class, the polling and precision are incredible.

[@animoney1]

I feel like there is so much room for innovation in the trackball space. People are starting to care a lot more about ergonomics. I'd love to see options with more buttons, even if some are not as convenient. Like shortcut buttons or a macro pad built in. Also better sensors, polling rates, etc. If someone can solve the issue of having to clean bearings that would be a big improvement. I used to have a logitech thumb trackball, and want to try one of these hand balls now. Leaning towards slimblade pro as it's on amazon for returns.

[@lefnire]

Yes indeed! I feel like they're getting more popular though, and if that happens companies will iterate / innovate. I wish Logitech would explore more around fingerballs, they clearly tossed in the towel there since thumballs sold more

[@Kevin-jp4rb]

Make a video of you gaming with the Ploopy Adept

[@diuran1919]

it's very easy task to change bearings on elecom. After swap bearings, elecom for me is the best trackball mouse. Second device I'm use when I'm in bed is Kensington wireless expert . Wish to buttons be wider/bigger and ball much smaller but its very comfy after learn how to use.

[@lefnire]

I watched the Huge bearing-replacement videos and thought "above my pay-grade." I need to just accept that I'm more weenie when it comes to DIY than the average person, and stop making it sound systemic. From your Expert complaints, it sounds like Adept would be perfect if it had wireless / Bluetooth.

[@ExtremeSquared]

Been using an elecom huge for a few years. Just got a slimblade (thanks to your videos), plugged it into a laptop, and left a huge on the workstation. Within a day, I found myself trying to use the slimblade ball scroll on the huge. It's just genius. And having the sensors at the ball equator versus the south pole means falling gunk won't block the slimblade sensor. Using vim, the mouse becomes secondary, and the ambidexterity is appreciated too.

[@animoney1]

I am debating between the elecom huge and slimblade myself, do you think the slimblade wins out? I do like that the huge has more buttons, but a lot of people report issues with the wireless connection

[@ExtremeSquared]

​@@animoney1 I absolutely think so. I'm giving my wired elecom to a friend after using the wired slimblade for a week. But... 1. I am 6'6" and can palm a basketball. The shape of the huge matches small hands best. 2. Ergonomics are an extremely personal choice.

[@jeffj2688]

When a roller bearing gets gunked up - and they do - way more PITA to clean.

[@lefnire]

I am learning that lesson at this very moment. I have no idea how to remove these

[@flutescope]

You can save your setting profiles for the Kensington trackballs. It makes a file, then you just load the file. A little crude but it's there.

[@AeroPR]

Love the detailed input. Thank you so much. Will research more about the ploopy. My rsi prefers my fingers to stay in more of a claw shape so it seems perfect.

[@lefnire]

Update 2 months later, I've switched exclusively to Ploopy Adept (despite the "could go either way" in the video). So IMO you can't go wrong.

[@milohoffman274]

I find the scroll ring to be fantastic myself, especially once it is broken in.

[@lefnire]

@@milohoffman274 on the expert? I wonder if I got a dud, I hear others love it as well. I should order another sometime, and if it's better make an updated vid

[@penguinsushi8442]

Generally like to call them wedge finger ball trackballs. With the Slimblade, having a wrist rest that covers some of the bottom buttons helps prevent accidental clicks and feels more comfortable IMO. There's some videos about how the switches fail quicker than they are designed to due to low-voltage driving the switches. The X-Keys LTrac is another wedge finger ball, but the scroll wheel can be hard for some to use. I use a Kensington gel wrist-rest cut-up so it fits on the slope, required since I use a keyboard tray with next to no depth. Also the X-Keys has a 1000 Hz polling rate. I've got the roller bearing kit from tekhedd2006, and it's really smooth, but feels off-axis at times compared to the Ploopy Adept due to the old bearing mount layout (optical encoder 90 degree layout bleh). With roller bearings, you have to fight against them a bit if you want precise 360 movement all the time, annoys me too. Love the sound of roller bearings (as long as they're greased). If the Adept was about the same size as the Slimblade, that would be *chef kiss*. The MX Ergo gave me thumb pain, didn't help that mine went rough/scratchy, and I worked it too hard. X-Mouse button control lets you have profiles for each application, and is more lightweight than Kensington Works. Takes a bit to set up, but worth it.

[@lefnire]

"Wedge". I think I've seen that elsewhere too, I'll adopt it. Interesting about the low-voltage, I didn't realize there was something more behind the malfunctions; figured it was the rare case of hulk button-mashing. I believe the Ploopies are 1000Hz as well - I forgot to mention that in the video, big "forget" as it pertains to gaming (with GameBall, L-Trac, and Ploopy Classic being the main gaming contenders). L-Trac was definitely high on my list, and I'd love to try it sometime. Glad to see we've had similar experiences with axes, Ergo, etc - validates some of my trackball journey. Noted on X-Mouse. I gave it a whirl once, and thought "woa... maybe tomorrow" - GTK it's worth it.

[@penguinsushi8442]

@@lefnireIf you are up for another peripheral, a separate trackpad that can go on the left or right of your keyboard might be useful for you. However, you don't get the curved shape of the Slimblade with your palm (ball being high point of tent). With the L-Trac, you can connect additional buttons via the rear jacks, people have 3D printed side mounts for wedges that house key switches etc. I do wish the L-Trac was as level and tented/curved as the Slimblade, the main reason why I can't use it without a wrist rest. Your other trackball videos have brought important clarifications to my trackball journey, thank you! Also, your channel is a diamond in the rough, covering any and all complaints a user could have ergonomically and just general usage. Subscribed! :D

[@lordvalen8133]

99 CAD is equivalent to 72 USD today. So, quite a bit cheaper than $90!

[@lefnire]

Yes indeed! Shipping makes the difference. Nonetheless, it's cheaper than the competition for a better price. I'm leaning ploopy these days

[@u2bst1nks]

I had the old CST trackball with steel rollers, and I thought it was the least smooth trackball I ever used. A lot of people on old trackball/ergonomic forums would wax poetic on how good steel rollers felt, but I think they were wrong. Since then many people have talked about how bad the CST was. I absolutely hated the roughness of moving bearings, to the point that I'm cautious about spending so much on a ploopy, in case people are just mass hallucinating about the smoothness again.

[@lefnire]

This is really good to know. Since posting a few of these videos, I've gotten a lot of complaints against L-Trac similar to yours. Having never tried it myself, I was going off all the reviews, debates on Reddit, rages against myself, etc and it the sentiment was unanimous, so I took it at face value. What I can say personally is that I switched from Slimblade to Adept exclusively, having used a ton of these mice, and I find the Adept smoother, even with the roller bearings. I started using it for gaming (for the smoothness, lack of stiction); then wondered why I was using Slimblade for productivity, and consolidated.

[@u2bst1nks]

@@lefnire I've got the Elecom thumball with the rollers. I find it better than the L-trac, but I have a similar gripe. The rolling resistance is much lower than any static bearing trackball I have. However, the resistance isn't the same in every direction, since there are 3 rollers facing different directions. This gives it a 'gritty' type of feeling that I dislike. It can also make the resistance feel unpredictable. I think I might prefer the higher rolling resistance that is much more consistent and predictable.

[@gabbodj95]

Got the Expert wireless today pre owned for 40 euros (here in Italy it costs something around 140 new). It's basically in mint conditions, and I'm loving it a lot. I have to adapt more about the hovering Saruman hand, but I'm not experiencing it as badly as for a lot of people for the first times using a trackball mouse. Having rheumatoid arthritis I hope it will do its job on lowering the load on my wirst and articulations

[@PierreJohnsonOnline]

Thanks for the review. It seems quite convincing, though I am used to larger balls. But 50$ claimed to ship it to France is too much for me.

[@slayyew1846]

The different types of trackballs are basically Thumb ball (Thumb operated), Fingertip ball (Index/middle finger operated), and Hand ball (Hand operated) and I have a fourth that I call Cabinet ball (Thumb/Finger/Hand operated but with Metal wheel bearings). For people that live in a humid area I would only EVER recommend a Cabinet ball save yourself from everyday gunk cleaning that just happens no matter what you do due to humidity, its fluid consistent ball movement and the sensor but only Ploopy(High grade 3360 sensor) and x-key l-trac(Average grade Laser sensor) make this type of ball which is why the company is so loved and that they are eligible to charge so much.

[@penguinsushi8442]

If you think the X-Keys L-Trac is an average sensor, then the Expert and Slimblade are slop. Or am I mistaken?

[@slayyew1846]

@@penguinsushi8442 In comparison to a PMW 3360 sensor it is Average. Average is not a bad thing though. So, I'm not sure how you're trying to approach this... I guess I'll approach it as a debate.. So, Just on a scale of the last "x amount of years the first slimblade first launched" of the internet.. How many people use the slimblade for games like FPS Shooters? How many videos could you find even demonstrating players using the slimblade for fast movement, fast but super controlled fps shooters at even a decent skilled level? That answer is none. I have not made that decision, people have.. Anyways, down to the technical science of the sensor I will also say yes, the PMW 3360 sensor is better and superior in precision and polling rate(response time) then a slimblades PAW 3220. That being said, I use both X-Keys L-Trac and the Ploopy Adept for both gaming and work. While only using the slimblade for work and to dink with.. It's not responsive enough with polling rate(sensor related), not the best shape for quick ergonomic fast button presses, and the static bearings which can hinder pin point accuracy at any given time make other Trackballs (Ploopy, X-keys L-Trac, and Gameball) a far better choice especially in the gaming world.

[@penguinsushi8442]

@@slayyew1846 Valid points. The buttons on the Slimblade aren't easy (or consistent) to press according to some, but I haven't had the opportunity to use one so I can't comment.

[@jammies701]

You ought to try holding the adept from the side, with your hypothenar eminence resting on the table and side of the device. It's almost like going in with a handshake angle on your wrist and then pronating until your fingers hit the ball. Works a lot better than going from the front and over like you're used to with the Kensington

[@lefnire]

Just tried it and having trouble functionally while it's flat; I'm assuming you'd need tenting for it to work? I'll fiddle with this style a bit more and see if it sticks.

[@jammies701]

@@lefnire you shouldn't, at least I don't, and I have slightly larger than average hands, so in the same ballpark as yours. It's almost the same angle as you would approach for a vertical mouse, with the medial pinky (i.e., the side that isn't next to another finger,; maybe some people call it "outside") more or less resting on the table Maybe you're pronating more than I'm trying to describe? with this grip you're mostly pressing with the sides of the fingers, not the pads/traditional pressing surface of the fingers Just trying to help. May not work or be comfortable for everyone, but it works well for me with the adept. Makes the top inner 2-3 buttons a little less accessible without moving the arms a little, but it's really comfortable for regular use. The ball is rolled mostly within the MCP to PIP joints' area. So approximately upper palm to first half of the fingers

[@lefnire]

@@jammies701 thanks for all the details! I'll give that a shot for a while

[@jammies701]

@@lefnire hope I'm not over explaining, but after seeing this recommendation on the ploopy subreddit or discord, it started working for me a lot better. I tried it out and found another way to describe it. For your left hand, if you hold your hand flat (palm down) and line your middle finger up to the left of the ball, you should have some of your pinky side palm resting kind of to the left of the device. Then, supinate 25-35°, holding that wrist position, you can adjust a little forward back and side to side so your thumb hits mouse button 1, and your middle finger is touching mouse button 2, which should be the left top in this scenario if using default mapping. Also, I tend to prefer using a palm rest for this device

[@varshard0]

I read on the ploopy subreddit that they find it more comfortable to control yhe the ball with their fingers than fingertips.

[@nathanfranck5822]

You really sell it, talking about those roller bearings... I'm buying an 8BitDo Keyboard and the matte black-on-red style of that ploopy is looking real good right now. Would be fun to get the build-it-yourself kit and make an evening out of assembling it! I'm really intrigued by the gaming angle, since the 'sticky' issue of most trackballs is a huge bummer for me inside and outside of games - battling the stickiness was just added stress, when ergonomics should have your hands as relaxed as possible...

[@lefnire]

If you're down with this form factor, then it's wonderful for gaming. GameBall & Ploopy Classic are typically used for gaming due to polling rate & dynamic bearings. Adept less-so due to form-factor, but it's got the bearings and polling rate, and same size ball as Classic (bigger I believe than GameBall); so in theory, this could be top-3 gaming trackball mouse

[@nathanfranck5822]

@@lefnire I just run with the theory that "what's good for gaming is good for the office" since at least with mice, I can go way longer if my pointing device is fast and accurate - less backtracking and extra movements to fix screwups - I like the idea of the form factor since it looks like it would fit perfectly beside a keyboard so the travel distance between the two is minimized compared to an ergo shape or a standard mouse, though I haven't tried this shape yet

[@lefnire]

@@nathanfranck5822 very true on the travel distance. Since it's sort of flush against the keyboard, you just slide on over. I personally prefer this form factor all around. I bought into it for ambidextrous ergo, to heal my right hand but also not rule the right hand out, but accepted it as a compromise. But now when I try other form factors I prefer this one. So it's all about "what you're used to."

[@jerneo11]

Did you try a Apple Trackpad? I think this is also a real good thing (even for Windows, with a github addon!) I also am amazed about not resting your arms at all... For me this it crazy. I can type without it but it just doesn't feel ergonomic. Love the video's! (Y)

[@lefnire]

Apple Trackpad is one that I haven't done justice to in my ergonomics exploration. I indeed HAVE tried it (and I agree, you should get Apple's even for Windows, as I've tried others); but I haven't really given it a fair shot after the RSI came on, so I can't speak to its ergonomics. But it comes up often, so I need to give it another go. Only reason I haven't is that I prefer trackballs mechanically; I just like using them better than I like using trackpads. For arm rests, I'm pretty staunch on my "no wrist rests" take; but what I would recommend are chair arms high enough as elbow rests to keep the arms raised at the proper level for 90deg mouse/keyboard.

[@MaximumPayine]

What's your opinion on these mice when it comes to video editing? Because click and dragging is done a lot in video editing and I'm a little skeptical how well it would work for that.

[@lefnire]

So you're right, trackballs in general are worse for gaming and media editing. But remember that the primary purpose is ergonomics - help with RSI / CTS. So there's a camp for whom they don't get a choice (me); but for everyone else, it's a trade-off consideration. What I can say though is that I edited this very video with the Ploopy. It's not crazy editing, but it's still a helluva lot of click-and-dragging (I use Descript).

[@MrSwordstroker]

not all RSI is the same though

[@gressier]

Excellent video, thanks a lot. Do you have any idea where I can find this brush/rubber cleaning pen, please?

[@lefnire]

amzn.to/3yifCt2

[@gressier]

@@lefnire Thanks a lot!!

[@varshard0]

How do you reaching those 4 top buttons? It look like it's not possible to use those buttons with the ball at the same time.

[@jammies701]

Nice vid mate

[@nilsonbarbaro]

Does Ploopy Adept has a Wireless BlueTooth and/or WiFi model ?

[@lefnire]

I'm 99% the answer is no. I've seen it mentioned around, in Discord or such, but I think it may be people building it into the device DIY (since Ploopy is first and foremost an open source device). But yeah, if you order from their website pre-built, there's no option for that.

[@w500nm]

Have you tried the xkeys l-trac?

[@lefnire]

Not yet. It's highly lauded, same or better sensor and bearings. I likely won't get to it, the main reason is it has too few keys for my taste, and a less ergonomic design. I only review mice I plan to use (or hand-me-down), and I use the heck out of middle-click and back. I know it has an jack for expanded buttonry, but that's a bit rabbit-hole for my taste. From what I understand, the two king-of-kings are Ploopy Classic (which I *do* plan to review) and X-Keys L-Trac. L-Trac with a 57mm ball and mega-ultra sensor + bearings is as good as it gets, if you don't mind the form factor and few buttons.

[@harryvendryes]

@@lefnire I found the settings for a 3D printed, angled, X-Keys L-Trac base. You can print either a right or left handed model. Came with two cutouts for two extra keyboard switches of your choosing. I've never held a soldering iron before, but after buying two mono cables for next to nothing on eBay, I was able to solder everything in place. For anyone who's never seen this trackball, it comes with two small sockets at the rear for two extra external switches. By default, without any tinkering, those two switches will provide 'forward' and 'back' on the Brave browser. I must look into getting them configured for Emacs too. There's a YT video that explains everything. Best thing is that it's impossible to get the wiring wrong. Just two soldering points for each switch, and it matters not which way round you do it. There's even recesses on the bottom to attach rubber bumpons. My only complaint: I can never remember the name of it. X-Keys L-Trac does not roll off the tongue.

[@SirStylez99]

hellow. i just got the adept. do u know if theres some drivers for this thing so i can config it? for the life of me, i cant find it anything? i went to their webpage and a virtual keyboard popped up but nothing bout the actual mouse. help!!!

[@lefnire]

You configure it via usevia.app/ . If you need more configuration, you configure firmware via QMK github.com/ploopyco/adept-trackball/wiki/Appendix-D%3A-QMK-Firmware-Programming

[@SirStylez99]

@@lefnire thanks for the reply. yep. i have been to that site. when click on "authorize device" it doesnt do anything. ill read the info on github and hopfully i can get somwhere..