Plowing v. Subsoiling

Explaining the differences in deep tillage practices. #tractor #farming ‪@GeorgiaSouthernUniv‬

[@Flyanb]

Patrick, you are a fantastic educator. MN non farmer here who build’s prototype tooling for foundry castings for the OEM ag industry. Working on huge iron components for red tractors now. I like to watch this stuff exactly so I can learn about what we are building, and you sir do a FANTASTIC job. Farming needs real, hardworking, non sales ambassadors like you. I very much enjoy watching and listening to you. Keep up the good work.😀

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks for watching/commenting and keep up your work. It’s folks like you that keep farmers working

[@DB_Cooper727]

“Hard as a brickbat” You and Triple R Farms are the only KZbin farmers that would use that phrase. Glad to finally see SW Georgia and farming practices that I’m used to on here.

[@PatrickShivers]

Glad you found me. I have over 350 videos made over the last 3-4 years all detailing South Georgia farming

[@MarshallLanier]

A brick is a brick and a bat is a bat til a brick gets broke and then a broke brick is a brick bat.

[@davidsignor7931]

We have used the term brick bathroom forever because if you work some of the clay that we have and it is too wet the only thing that you will do after that is make smaller ones out of bigger ones you will never get any real ground to actually seed something in

[@davidsignor7931]

Another thing you would never pull that sub soiler in the granite clay that we have it would stop you dead in your tracks at 18 inches

[@PatrickShivers]

@@davidsignor7931 yep

[@dirtfarmer7472]

Thank you Sir for this video I’m from western Oklahoma used to be a lot of wheat not so much now. Our ground out here is more sandy than yours. The last tractor I bought was a Stiger 1980 we used a 9X18 moldboard & a 9 shank subsoiler it just kept on walking along.

[@FC-cz6zd]

Fantastic footage of the equipment at work👍

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks

[@blakelinning851]

Great explanation on the tillage. Really enjoy ur videos keep them coming!!!

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks Blake

[@ragendarkwolf2833]

I have family in MN that farms. But my father stopped farming before I could learn much as I was to young. Very informative videos always wondered the difference and reasons of each vs the other.

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks for watching. That is what I strive to do, explain why/how/what farmers are doing

[@dalemayes3854]

Thank you so much for your time and information. I appreciate it😊

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks for watching Dale

[@MarshallLanier]

Patrick I'm glad you explained how the ripper allows water to penetrate into the subsoil and also allows for root penetration as well. Not tryingtohijack yourpost, but I'd like to expand on that . When those shanks are running deep like that, they don't just rip a deep groove in the ground like many people believe, but they actually shatter the soil in between the rows. Especially in hard ground like yours. It's like throwing a baseball thru a window. It doesn't just leave a neat round hole where the ball goes through, but it shatters the entire pane. Same result with the subsoiler. And the faster you can pull it, the better job it does.

[@PatrickShivers]

You nailed it. Great explanation. Subsoilers are also typically ran at a 45 degree angle to the rows so that a row doesn’t fall right where the shank ran, or didn’t run, all the way across the field

[@MarshallLanier]

@@PatrickShivers unless you're like us and run the ripper and the planter in tandem. I will say this. A 12 row ripper/planter combo is ALL an 8430 wants. Even with a little more juice turned to it. But...we're not running quite as deep as yall are. We're usually running 14-16 max.

[@MrJoeindublin]

Patrick, enjoy your videos very much.Happy St Paddy's 🍀,greetings from Ireland.take care Joe

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks for watching from the homeland! Happy St. Patrick’s Day!

[@MrJoeindublin]

Had a pint of the black stuff for ya today Patrick, best from the old sod Joe🍀​@@PatrickShivers

[@MorganOtt-ne1qj]

Operator checks equipment and results often, and adjusts accordingly. Head swivels all the time, as near to 360° as the seat and neck allows. And nothing can't be done with 15 minutes of instruction,if you have 20+ years of experience! Great video!

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks for watching Morgan

[@MorganOtt-ne1qj]

@@PatrickShivers I enjoy watching how others do the same basic thing I do, but in different ways. You explain everything clearly, and I appreciate it. 👍

[@dennisjenkins7040]

Glad I found your channel, it's actually about farming and not just entertainment and putting on a show. The brick bat comment is a saying I thought I was the only one using lol. I sure miss farming and enjoy your channel.

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks for watching! No show here, just 400+ educational videos.

[@joeappleton9213]

Great video and explanations of the different kit and their uses , not seen a switch plough before we in the UK have reversible (flip ploughs ) or conventional ploughs which are sometimes called runaround ploughs which have just one set of bodies but don’t move , was interesting to see the switch plough in motion and the simplicity of the design compared to say a lemken reversible.. great shots of the machinery in action ..wouldn’t want to pay that diesel bill tho 🤣👍 wow 160:a day

[@PatrickShivers]

Those Limkens are impressive

[@braedenphillips3152]

Hey I’ve got a 8 bottom 995 as well. And was wondering what company makes the drag on your plow. Considering that instead of building my own. Thanks

[@tater357]

I was listening to ya talk about the red clay soil, and was thinking..."Does he not incorporate a cover crop?" Thats when you started plowing and started talking about turning the organic matter over into the soil to incorporate it...Which really got me to wondering how I was going to comment on the subject afterwards.... But to hear how much fuel you're burning a day, really makes me wonder how the old timers were able to cover such a large ground with the equipment they had. My Dad (RIP) use to tell stories about my Grandfather plowing the field with a mule and a single plow. Said he'd started before my Dad left for school and when Dad returned home, my Grandfather was still out there plowing. Just curious, how many acres are you planting this year and what all are you planting? I know in an earlier video, you mentioned growing peanuts...Is that the only crop you'll be doing this spring?

[@PatrickShivers]

I start each year by planting English peas (sweet peas) in late January/early February (I have a video up on that), I put potatoes in the ground mid February (video has been posted on that), then green beans and baby limas aka butterbeans are planted now along with field corn, followed by purple hull peas, cream peas, and zipper peas (in that order) first of April, soybeans go in the ground mid/late April, Peanuts late April early May along with popcorn. By this point the potatoes and sweet peas will have been harvested. Southern pea varieties along with Butterbean harvest begins in june. Pumpkins get planted late june. Corn gets harvested late july/early august followed by soybeans in late august/early September. Peanuts come off in October along with popcorn, Pecans are harvested in November and December. I plant or harvest a commercial crop every month of the year.

[@PatrickShivers]

I left out the wheat. It’s planted late November early December, harvested first half of June.

[@darryladams519]

I live in middle GA the last two or three miles on the southern end of my county is white sand, we used to call it sugar sand. The rest of the county is red clay. Thick soupy stuff with a lot of suction on tires when wet.

[@ronlines9380]

Patrick, LOVE your videos. Your knowledge and detail in your various videos is impressive. LOTS and LOTS of good information. In the future, would you mind 'expanding' just a little more on your excellent explanations? Example, 180 gallons of fuel a day doesn't tell me gallons consumed per hour. Also, how many acres can you cover sub-soiling burning 180 gallons? How many acres can you cover when you are plowing & gallons/hour. Also, would you mind going over the herbicides you use in corn, alfalfa, soy beans? Cost per acre for the entire year. also, wouldn't you benefit from a big-horse tractor with tracks which will provide awesome traction as well as less compaction to the soil? Do you use any aerial spray or is all your spraying does with wide-boom sprayers? How many acres do you farm? Crop percentages planted per year? What are you feelings about John Deere owning the software in your John Deere machines using proprietary Service Advisor that John Deere owns? Keep up the GREAT information. You are highly intelligent, a treasure of Georgia. Ron Lines SW Virginia

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks for watching Ron. I’m going to answer in reverse: John Deere lost the Right to Repair law suit last year and now farmers can legally obtain a JD laptop and do the repairs. Before the lawsuit you could buy those laptops if you did a little homework, but it wasn’t “legal.” In the earlier videos I am working for my dad and my brother-in-law. They farmed a few thousand acres. In the later videos I work by myself/for myself. I farm 400 acres of row crops, have a 300 tree pecan orchard, and a small herd of Brangus Cattle. I don’t grow alfalfa. I only aerial spray when it’s to wet to ground spray. I’ve heard (but not seen myself) that some midwest universities did compaction & traction studies and found out that 8 wheeled tractors (like mine) get more traction than tracks. They also supposedly create less compaction due to eight pressure points. While tracks are on the ground from front to back, the major weight points are the front and rear roller, so it’s essentially a tractor without duals. Track tractors are very rare in the south & I have no personal experience with them so I can’t back any of that up with first hand knowledge. I plant sweet peas in January or February, potatoes in February, corn, green beans, and baby lima beans in March, harvest sweet peas in March/April, plant purple hull peas, cream peas, zipper peas, & soybeans in April, plant peanuts in May, harvest potatoes, lima beans, and green beans in May. Harvest peas in june/july. Harvest corn in August, hervest soybeans in September, harvest peanuts in October, harvest pecans in November & December

[@ronlines9380]

@@PatrickShivers You sure have enough to keep you way busy Patrick. Beautiful farm and I'm sure you know every inch, every clod, every sandy area. You seem to have energy others can only hope for. I'm sure your Father was a big influence and educator in your life. I love family farms as they are a multigenerational quest. That bond from generation to generation is a sacred bond. How many acres can you sub-soil (rip) on 180 gallons of fuel? I'm thinking that number is large which makes the 180 gallon expenditure worth while. Do you need a pesticide license in Georgia to buy your farm insecticides and herbicides?

[@PatrickShivers]

@@ronlines9380 I can subsoil 100 acres in a long day and burn a tank (180 gallons) of fuel. Yes you need license in Ga to buy herbicide & pesticides

[@ronlines9380]

@@PatrickShivers I have a small farm here in VA and you also need a pesticide license. I have some pasture ground and a few Angus with a Hereford bull. This is a great combination as they produce larger blaze-face calves. I'm not sure if you rip all 600 acres in a year or not but 18 gallons/acre seems reasonable for the returns. I was born and raised in AZ and we rip a lot out there as our ground, while not red, does have a lot of clay and for cotton country, you need to rip it up for the same reasons. Your new tillage tool with independent baskets is the cats meow. It does a wonderful job. Isn't it beyond comprehension how many tools it takes to produce the wide variety of crops that you plant. That gets expensive. When you combine your time, fuel, equipment costs, repairs, herbicide/pesticide, irrigation costs, hired labor, hired harvesting, etc., your return might be in the black and it might not. We all say to ourselves, "We'll farm til we're broke"! One part of farming that is fascinating, is those folks in places like California who have the right climate is raising vegetables. The equipment and experience it takes to plant 10 different vegetables is astonishing as it is very precision work. Please, keep up the great videos, I am spellbound watching the 'R' and 4960 tractor. I have a 5075 JD and it seems to do everything I ask it to do. Of course, it has its limits.

[@PatrickShivers]

@@ronlines9380 that’s not an R, it’s a 8530……the last great tractor

[@terrytate6006]

I have some questions for a guy that doesn't know anything about farming how many times do you go over the soil after you pick your corn before you plant your next crop ? and in your video you said it was going to rain after you plowed wont the rain packed the clay back down preventing you from planting again?

[@PatrickShivers]

How many trips is determined by what crop is going to be planted. Peanuts requires the most trips. To prep for peanuts a field is usually disced, plowed, field cultivated to level, yellow chemicals applied (grass control) then twice incorporated with field cultivator at different angles. Then planted. Sometimes the field is subsoiled before plowing, sometimes not. Also sometimes farmers will subsoil but not plow. It all varies year to year depending on conditions. Every rain adds compaction (it compounds throughout the year) but fields are typically subsoiled or plowed just once per year.

[@billsauberlich7337]

When your subsoiling how many gals of fuel per acer,and is the pipe your dragging behind empty or filled with concrete or anything?

[@PatrickShivers]

@@billsauberlich7337 pipe is empty. I don’t know the gallons per acre. It takes about 8 hours to burn 180 gallons.

[@josealvarado8964]

Enjoy the video very informative thank you sir. Good job!👍🏽

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks for watching Jose

[@disamcontractors5636]

Amazing work. Watching from Nigeria (Africa

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks for watching!

[@WilliamWebb-i4f]

I totally agree we run 16 to 18 with strip till and subsoiler at 4.5 to 5 people that say they run 7 to 8 don’t run deep enough

[@boomermatheson3172]

With the clay you have why don’t you add like 6” of leaves or other ‘debris’ and other amendments in order to increase aeration and root growth ?

[@PatrickShivers]

Our crops produce significant residue each year. Cotton and peanuts both leave behind multiple tons per acre, but as with all organic materials it rots. Meaning it’s only there for a brief time. When we plow we disperse that material throughout the growing zone, it will all be decayed by next year and replaced with this year’s residue. Cotton production leaves behind about 6” of residue wall to wall, I have a video detailing that.

[@stevenmclamb7851]

I Enjoy Watching Your Videos

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks Steven

[@stevenmclamb7851]

@@PatrickShivers You're Welcome

[@johngreer8101]

Anothet great video brother. I sure do miss bottom plowing. We do strip till where i work now but all growing up my daddy always bottom plowed. He believed in turning that ground over. I do to.

[@PatrickShivers]

Almost all cotton in this area is strip till, some corn is, no peanuts are

[@johngreer8101]

We plant everything stip till. Including peanuts to. It does work well in are ground ​but i sure do miss doing the tillage.@@PatrickShivers

[@mikescaffo4850]

That's a bad ass john deere tractor love john deere

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks Mike. It’s the last pre regin model

[@blakelinning851]

And do they make those kind of attachments for smaller tractor i only see them in the bigger 1s

[@PatrickShivers]

They make them all sizes. I have a 1 bottom plow and a single shank subsoiler for my Massey Ferguson 135.

[@WilliamWebb-i4f]

You defiantly have it in the ground a lot of people say 16 to 18 in deep but if you push a probe in the ground you find people really running 6 to 8 in

[@PatrickShivers]

Anything less than 10” is just wasting fuel

[@farmingforfunandprofit940]

I have to disagree with your statement about the shallow root zone depth of no till strip-till........ But you farm different soil, so you are speaking from experience.... In these parts you can almost lose a Regular or Peanut Combine if a Drive tire slips into .....a subsoiler furrow We used an Jd 850 dozer to extract an 84oo and 6 row Amadas combine and the drivers side on the combine left a ditch almost 300 ft long, 2 ft wide and 3 ft deep

[@davidwilliamson9257]

Where are your missing coulters Patrick?

[@PatrickShivers]

They were not on it when I got it. I still haven’t replaced them.

[@tomhenderson9732]

toms kid sent that hi

[@tomhenderson9732]

hi

[@brettbrignac7591]

12 to 15 gallons an hour?, and no black smoke. That is incredible.

[@williamhales9425]

great work

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks William

[@stevenmclamb7851]

What Horsepower Is The 8530

[@PatrickShivers]

350

[@colefletcher-ox7xd]

Does that 8530 have a diff lock?

[@PatrickShivers]

Yes, and I was using it with that plow. It was a lot of moisture below the surface that was pulling the tractor off line.

[@colefletcher-ox7xd]

@@PatrickShivers ok

[@mikewalter8547]

Great info Patrick.

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks Mike!

[@jamesolson9423]

That's expansive, 180 gallons of full per day.

[@PatrickShivers]

$5.22 per acre while subsoiling. That’s the most expensive thing I do.

[@jonathanhege5029]

❤

[@PatrickShivers]

Thanks for watching Jonathan

[@jonathanhege5029]

@@PatrickShivers You're welcome!

[@tugboat2739]

Howdy Patrick

[@PatrickShivers]

Howdy Tug!

[@farmingforfunandprofit940]

Patrick, Your Tillage video keeps popping up on my to watch list, Seems like the only way to get rid of you is to watch.... Not that I REALLY have the need to know..... Up until 6 years ago, we had a NO Till under the row one pass Subsoiler- Planter rig.... Only tillage now is Punching the Hay fields with an Aeroater made by Imdustrus America

[@PatrickShivers]

I’m square bailing some straw this year.

[@farmingforfunandprofit940]

We figured we would add some straw to our list of small squares..... First, sign of trouble----- our operation is not designed to manualy handle small squares singlely.... and it contaminates the machinery, we sell primarily to Horse people and don;t want to risk them finding a single piece of straw in the Hay, Then except for decorations and gardening the market is not there, Horse folks use shavings for bedding

[@PatrickShivers]

@@farmingforfunandprofit940 “horse folks” are notorious for being the hardest to satisfy customers. I know a couple people that were in the hay business full time but got out b/c they got tired of dealing with horse folks

[@farmingforfunandprofit940]

Guess we are fortunate because we only deal with a small number directly.....most go thru the contracted stores, and the the stores call for more about every two weeks..... those that pick up at the farm know that they are free to buy from any other supplier that chances are don't have any........ OUR Animals Aren;t Hungry.......Yours Are.....

[@tommooe4524]

Do they still have peanut allotments and if so, how many acres do you do. I am from early county originally and remember back in the 1950’s my father talking about allotments held by foreigners

[@jensstroner6757]

Thats the first time i see a moldboardplough in georgia.

[@PatrickShivers]

Every farmer in Georgia has one. Most have multiple. We plow peanut ground, peanuts are the primary row crop of Georgia. Most of the plows here are John Deere or Harrell 5-7 bottom.

[@jensstroner6757]

@@PatrickShivers do you also grow cotton? I was a few times in georgia and around our company is mainly cotton

[@PatrickShivers]

@@jensstroner6757 my dad did and my brother in law does, but I do not. I grow produce instead.

[@jensstroner6757]

@@PatrickShivers in wich part of georgia is your farm? We are in perry (houston county)

[@PatrickShivers]

@@jensstroner6757 Clay County (southwest corner of the state).

[@mungogerryjnr]

That’s not a sub soiler!

[@PatrickShivers]

According to the company that makes it (KMC) it is, and according to the company that produced the wear parts (Nichols) it is, and according to the dealership that sells them (John Deere) it is.

[@mungogerryjnr]

Well according to a company over there called Great Plains isn’t I owned on once from a company over here And no sub soiler has eleven shanks,well actually with todays 830 hp maybe but it’s never been possible Sub soiler have a hydra foil on each leg and go deeper then .8mtr They are set further apart at a minimum of .8mtr What the is is a deep Tyne harrow!

[@mungogerryjnr]

@@PatrickShivers there maybe some confusion over the difference between a true sub soiler and a deep tyne ripper But if there no hydra foil(I believe you guys call them wings) then it’s not a sub soiler The hydra foil actually cracks the compacted soil BETWEEN the rows allowing for far better water penetration and retention. I have been trying to get TrippyFarmer onboard for a couple years to no avail It’s not for ever soil type It also allows deep rooted plants especially maize or corn as you call it to reach nutrients deep down No hydra foils No sub soiler

[@PatrickShivers]

@@mungogerryjnr there is a winged point available for this model, but I don’t know anyone that runs it as it is very pricey and much harder to pull in our dirt. The shanks on this machine are half the distance apart as our rows are and we get great lateral breakage with them spaced that close and running that deep. Again, the manufacturer calls it a subsoiler and if you search online farm equipment auctions for “subsoiler” you will see this exact implement.

[@SHfarms]

Gonna have to make a road trip one day and come see that thing. Dog gone that thing sounds good

[@PatrickShivers]

Put a 3” single chamber Flowmaster on that Ford 4000 and it’ll probably sound about the same

[@SHfarms]

@@PatrickShivers may have to try it I used to have one laying around here somewhere 😂