What happens when an electric car breaks down? RAC interview | Plug Life Television episode 41

[@bigbadthesailor5173]

Brilliant video; thanks! Great to listen to voices of sanity. This channel deserves many many more viewers. It is interesting how some features of EV tech are being driven by demand for things that - in most use cases - simply won't be needed. My favorite example of this is the range vs speed of charging issue. Before I had an EV I simply didn't understand that a car with a lower range but faster charging capability was superior to a slightly higher range with slower charging. 30 minutes to go from 20 - 90% every 3 hours or so, is all any safe driver will ever need. As ever one is left reflecting than an actual Government - should we ever have one again - and a print media committed to factual accuracy - which I suspect we'll never have again - could really make a difference.

[@marvinsamuels1237]

I could listen to Dr McTurk all day. Great video, and loving the new production style 👍🏾

[@NicolasRaimo]

Great fimling and editing Mark! Nice interviewing Euan!

[@PlugLifeTelevision]

Absolutely - Mark's the MVP here!

[@jasonbarnett8911]

We recently purchased a Nissan Leaf from our local dealership, it came with RAC membership. Great to see RAC are up to speed with EV's, which in turn gives us peace of mind should anything happen to our car when out on the road.

[@solentbum]

In ten years of LEAF ownership, over 100k miles, I have only needed the RAC once. That was for a flat tyre caused by road debris, not an EV problem at all. Enjoy your LEAF and ignore the Daily Mail, etc.

[@simonyapp]

Same, I have a 11 year old leaf and only used recovery for a tyre. Enjoy it.

[@davidsonkeith8465]

Very useful video, reassuring that the RAC (and the other breakdown services?) have got some necessary equipment. Re pre-purchase education, glad there were these KZbinrs who published EV topics for me to 'research' on before I bought my EV. Appreciate you were one of them I got most info from.

[@EverydayLife621]

Very reassuring that the RAC are on the ball with this. Agree MFG are the superstars with their vision for the future.

[@decimal1815]

The next UK government need to talk to people like Euan and HEVRA about how a new domestic repair economy could be created on the back of EV rollout.

[@grahamwhiting6567]

Enjoyable and I learnt quite a few things. Thanks for a good presentation and professional video.

[@kinross24]

Great episode Euan! Shared!

[@DevAnubis]

Definitely good to see how engaged they are with EVs and aware of the broader steps necessary and their place in it. I agree, it'd be cool to see a Munro EV come along as a recovery vehicle. About the only justified on-road use for a tank like that 😅

[@TimGillott]

Excellent video. Share it widely folks.

[@modscotsman]

We have a converted ev landrover at work, and I had a rac van look it up on there system and its still classified as diesel even though its correctly changed on the v5 and online database?

[@PlugLifeTelevision]

That's a whole saga with the DVLA that lots of industry stakeholders are working to sort as we speak.

[@mbak7801]

My first ever EV had a 12V battery go flat (Renault software bug). The RAC took over 24 hours to arrive but apart from that they were great and are the goto company for breakdown cover. It looks like they have their heads in the right space for EV support.

[@NissanEVOwnersUK]

Excellent work! Will share to group.

[@blobstrom]

Great video. Regarding national grid and the DNO upgrading the network. I know Gridserve are waiting for that to happen at Uckfield, East Sussex for about a year now. However I know the existing network is very old and the money the government has offered is not enough to pay for the necessary upgrade.

[@simonyapp]

Is that why Uckfield is delayed? I thought GS had just changed their mind about the site.

[@blobstrom]

@simonyapp I spoke to Gridserve folk as part of Sussex EV event

[@MrWobling]

What if we made it law that everywhere that sells petrol has to have at least one working 7kw charger, vending electrons

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"Everyone who sells petrol" *and is smart* should *already* have some form of charging solution on their premises. (Especially since there are grants available)

[@adyg236]

Biggest thing is destination chargers, so even people without driveways can slow charge when parked at work or when visitiing a shoping centre etc.

[@SimonHollandfilms]

fabulous..

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Can they fit a tyre to a wheel rim at the side of the road ?. I keep a spare tyre for our Tesla MY just in case we shed one. Not needed it yet but interesting to know if the RAC can tyre fit when mobile

[@martyndyer4444]

Great episode.

[@solentbum]

It's not just EVs that need a 'four wheel carry' if they break down. many older 4x4s have to be flat bedded also. (The very ones most likely to break down).

[@rogerstephens9032]

Great video, love to see more content

[@PJWey]

Thanks for the update

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

Good to see another video from PlugLife - must be the AA next

[@malcym3394]

Good one. On the topic of not being able to charge from home without off-road parking, I struggle to find any regulations which state this. The Highways Act 1980 is often cited as banning laying a cable across a pavement, but this isn't an absolute. It's only an offence if you don't consider the risks, use mitigating measures, and give warning to pedestrians. I can't see any regulations which give local authorities the power to impose a blanket ban on, eg, cable protectors. Plus, all EV motor insurance now has to provide cover for third parties injured as a result of charging your EV. All the above is meant to be constructive, and leads to another question that appears to have no answer - why can't I have a home charger installed just because I have no off-road parking? I know that the regs say you can't put a charger on a wall beside a pavement (obviously that would be daft), but fitting one more than the required one metre away from the pavement (eg on my gable) and feeding it through a "proper" cable protector shouldn't present a problem. Anyone able to fill in the gaps in my knowledge & understanding? Or is it simply a case of someone once said it, and everyone thereafter takes it as fact?

[@blackjockofmangertonpele]

I don't think most people would be happy with you laying a cable across the pavement.

[@recreationalrunning]

@@blackjockofmangertonpele It depends whether you just drop the cable across, creating a trip hazard, or take measures to remove the hazard. If you put the cable in, for example, a cable protector which doesn't impede passage by a wheelchair, I can't see that there can be an objection. Otherwise, nobody would be able to place anything on a pavement. Say the pavement has been dug up - contractors place a big yellow plate across the affected area. So there are no 'absolutes' - if contractors can use this to protect users from works, surely individuals can use one to protect users from a cable? As the legislation says,; "A person who for any purpose places any rope, wire or other apparatus across a highway in such a manner as to be likely to cause danger to persons using the highway is, unless he proves that he had taken all necessary means to give adequate warning of the danger, guilty of an offence and liable to a fine" (Highways Act 1980, section 162). But this is why the essence of my comment was NOT to say that there's nothing wrong with the practice. It was to ask if anyone knows the reason why some local authorities ban it, and if anyone knows the regulations upon which authorities base their policy decision.

[@SebastianFleischhacker]

Amazing video Euan. Hope Munro picks up your idea 💡

[@CrashUK28]

default rapid should be 80% for new cars. Let the owner change the setting

[@wobby1516]

The idea that one has to charge to 100% is for most a nonsense I’ve worked in petrol stations and a large proportion of customers don’t fill to 100% rather they put an amount in £s. It seems to me that most car manufacturers are way behind when it comes to charge points. Tesla chose to build their own hubs worldwide and that’s the reason they’re so far ahead.

[@brianbarcroft9167]

On charging to 100%, don't batteries have a buffer that prevents that even if the car is saying 100%? I also see that, for example for my Mégane, Renault describe the battery as 60kw "useable" capacity, implying that there is a certain % of "unuseable" capacity.

[@matthewbaynham6286]

The guy from the RAC was very interesting, but the interviewer wasn't actually interviewing the RAC guy, the interviewer was just giving his own points and not asking the RAC guy questions.

[@cbromley562]

Very good.

[@VerticalBlank]

Great video but as someone who has no driveway, even the cheapest lamppost charger at 45p/kWh is massively more expensive than a night rate of just 7p/kWh.

[@MrBinabanana]

Whilst you're correct, it's also worth appreciating that in order to take advantage of a ~7p/kWh rate at home, there needs to be an investment of ~£1000 on a charger installation. I agree more needs to be done to level the costs though - perhaps through loyalty schemes or proof of local residency for those with no alternative other than on-street parking.

[@aperitifs]

Could you retrfit a 200kw battery to fit on the back of a RAC van or vehicle.. that could fast charge a car at 50-100kw or more.. super capacitors hybrid battery..

[@aperitifs]

Similar to the 5lt Jerry can

[@salibaba]

You COULD. But, it would be extremlely expensive and overly complicated. It’s like saying why have a house when you could have a house built into a lorry trailer. We could all have mobile lorry homes like caravans and never need to have a bricks and mortar house. Lugging around that massive (expensive) battery to be used not very often is uneconomical. It is far easier to simply tow the vehicle in question to a rapid charger or tow it home. Bi-directional charging from the recovery van could be a solution though as suggested by Euan in the video.

[@aperitifs]

@@salibabaCost would not be a issue for a Roadside Assistance Vehicle.. it's a worthwhile investment especially if they spend less time waiting to give someone enough charge to get them back on the road ....

[@salibaba]

@@aperitifs I disagree. Cost is everything for a business. The cheapest and simplest solution is usually they’ll best. A massive investment like that in many vehicles would be difficult to quantify a Return on Investment. A dolly though gets the client to safety quickly and isn’t restricted to just EVs, any vehicle can be used with one. Some new high end cars with fancy gearboxes which shouldn’t be towed wheels down. 4x4s with broken gearboxes/differentials.

[@rwkh10]

50% of the UK public can't charge at home. And at the moment public charges are charging way too much. Eventually it might change but it can't be pushed by the government. ( HS2 )

[@moragkerr9577]

Maybe not the place to ask, but I'm interested in the capabilities of the "Munro" off-roader that Euan mentioned. "Drag a Land Rover Defender into a dark alley and duff it up" is quite a claim. I've seen a video where a Defender actually drags a BIN LORRY out of a deep ford, after the idiot driver hydrolocked it by trying to take it like he was a hovercraft. It's seriously impressive. Can the Munro measure up to that?

[@moragkerr9577]

It's nice to see a new video on the channel! I tend to ignore EV videos more than a year old as no longer being relevant, so come on, we need new stuff. If you want some ideas, how about something specifically about the care and feeding of LFP batteries? We're drowning in advice relating to NMC batteries, and sometimes that same advice gets punted for LFP as well although it may not be applicable. For example, what about "shallow cycles" where you habitually recharge to 100% when you've only gone down to about 70%? Is rapid charging really harmful? How much degradation is normal in the first year?

[@NicolasRaimo]

Video with Euan over on my channel about just this

[@moragkerr9577]

@@NicolasRaimo I think that's the one I swear by and keep punting, but it's still mainly about NMC with some almost throw-away lines about the LFP. I'd love to hear him give 20 minutes or so just to the LFP, in the light of what I think (but am not certain) is misleading advice given on other channels - including the ubiquitous Dave Takes It On.

[@NicolasRaimo]

@@moragkerr9577 I’ll get Euan for a LfP special on my channel

[@snodgee]

You said that Electric vehicles brake down less than Ice vehicles but according to Hertz they make down more than their Ice vehicles , that is why they have cancelled their purchases of Teslas and polestars

[@moragkerr9577]

Citation required. I have heard a number of reasons why Herz got rid of a lot of Teslas, but that is not one of them.

[@snodgee]

Well you haven’t seen the video of the Hertz CEO talking about it

[@paulshaw1912]

My BMW i3 locked in park and had to be transported to BMW to be repaired at a cost of £800 But otherwise has been reliable

[@markparker5585]

Mine cost £11,000 after its 12v battery charging issues. If your i3 is out of warranty, I would strongly advise you to get a third party warranty. Change the 12v battery at the first signs of it not holding its charge, and regardless, every 4 years. They are smaller, motorcycle sized batteries, whereas just about every other EV uses a full size car battery.

[@andrewwaller5913]

So about as reliable as a 20 year old Range Rover then 😂

[@rogerstarkey5390]

​@@andrewwaller5913 You haven't seen the 2 year old Range Rovers with DPF issues then?

[@rogerstarkey5390]

​@@markparker5585 Sounds like a misdiagnosis at least in the first instance. I'd be interested to know how the issue progressed from a 13v battery issue to "£11,000"

[@andrewwaller5913]

@@rogerstarkey5390 I dread to think 🤣

[@colinwiseman]

I am hoping for a future where charging as it is being described doesn't need to happen as often as we all fear. Lots of drip feeding daily for the vast majority of needs. Large batteries that cover the most distant of drivers so they only need to charge at the end of the day of driving at a hotel or wherever. I know it's a lofty thought, but strive for cars that don't need plugged in, that gain back the 20-30 miles you drove on that day just by "being" in a place - solar panels and conductive charging drip feeding your car daily, should be the goal instead of massive charging stations with enough bays for people to stop for 15 mins each... ...although that said, if service stations just added smaller charging posts at each parking bay for drip feeding, that'd do the trick to. Charge while you pee, tea and KFC :D

[@rogerstarkey5390]

It's a mindset issue. You don't need "A rapid charger that "fills up" like a petrol pump" . You "need" 1) A vehicle which depending on the circumstances can be sufficiently charged "when the driver is doing what they travelled to the location to do" 2) A vehicle which outranges either the journey distance , or the typical driver of that vehicle type, then can be charged during a "desired or required stop" to do so again. . So, for example 1) You live in an urban environment. You commute by public transport. You drive maybe 3 evenings plus on the weekend, a total of... 3 x 20 + 80 = 140 miles. (The UK National average) During the weekday trips you travel to the gym, a local bar (designated driver?) A restaurant. 2 of these have a 7kW charger within 50m. You spend ±2 hours at each. That's "potentially" (😉) ± 28kWh. If your car has a 60kWh pack, that's 48% range, you easily exceeded the 60 miles you drove. The weekend? The weekly shop? Maybe an 11kW charger at your local superstore? (They're ALL starting to install chargers now) 45 minutes? That's another 8 kWh. A high street/ shopping centre shop? 2-3 hours) 11kWh? . You've added 47kWh (80%) without thinking about it. ..... 2) You're on a journey. In the UK you're going to "average" 60-65 mph allowing for traffic at either end, or en-route (that's even if you're "enthusiastic" on clear roads) 3 hours, 180-195 miles. 60kWh pack? You should have 60 miles left? 20- minute lunch/ comfort/ social media check break. That should give you at least 150 miles, plus what's left over. 3+ hours. . Rinse, repeat.

[@colinwiseman]

@@rogerstarkey5390 unarguable logic. Well said.

[@moragkerr9577]

I agree we need a lot more AC chargers all over the place. Every damn car park should have AC chargers on a reasonable proportion of its parking spaces so that anyone who wants to charge while their car is parked there can do so. And no time limits either, so people have to run back to their cars like they were on a parking meter. But nobody needs a car with a battery that will let them drive all day and not stop till they get to their hotel. There is a place for DC chargers for long trips. Nobody should be driving for that length of time, and when they stop to have a meal and go to the bathroom, the car can charge. That does need to be a rapid charge though.

[@colinwiseman]

@@moragkerr9577 the point about large batteries and destination charging, doesn't mean you don't stop for a pee and KFC... It's just we don't need a massive infrastructure on the road as we are all going somewhere 👍

[@moragkerr9577]

@@colinwiseman It's a trade-off. Most journeys are less than 20 miles. Most people can manage with a 50-70 KWh battery - often even less, if they live in a city - for 95% of the time. However, they probably don't want to keep a second car for the relatively few occasions when they go on a long trip. But they probably also don't want to be lugging around a 150 KWh battery 100% of the time when they're only going to be using a maximum of maybe 30-40 KWh per day in their normal lives. So what to do? Hire a long-distance car for the long trips to the holiday destination, or to visit the relatives, or to go motor-touring? Or simply use the car they have, and recharge it on a DC charger while they're taking their normal breaks in these journeys? The latter is much more flexible, allows people to use their own cars for long trips, and to take off at an hour's notice if they feel like it without having to arrange a hire car and so on. There are three options. Everyone lugs around a huge battery they're only going to need on a handful of days in the year, or they go to the trouble of hiring a car for these handful of days, or we just have some DC chargers on trunk roads and at motorway service stations. I agree that the emphasis with the provision of public charging needs to shift radically to AC chargers that people can sit on overnight. But I don't see the point in doing away with DC charging completely. The knowledge that there's a 50 Kw rapid charger five minutes walk from my house gives me a great deal of comfort that if I'm caught low on charge and need the car suddenly, I can do something about it. I doubt many people would want to do away with this.

[@stephengreen8986]

Before the dinosaur fuel critics crow at diesel rescuing electric we will soon see the reverse happening as Electric vans come on to the market.

[@hcw199]

Funny that the rescue vehicles are diesel vans.... 😂😂😂

[@stephentemple1558]

It took the RAC 8 days to recover my Tesla with a flood damaged battery, so they are not my favourite organisation.

[@moragkerr9577]

How did a flood damage your battery in the first place? These things are supposed to be sealed.

[@stephentemple1558]

@@moragkerr9577 Failed breather vents

[@stevehayward1854]

I have Tesla so if it broke down, Tesla would do a free recovery, as I once experienced when I damaged a tyre hitting a pot hole, all very fast and efficient

[@decimal1815]

Inductive charging on pavements outside homes or in car parks. No fuss with cables. Just park and the car charges itself. But.. the real social equality will come when public transport is upgraded and improved as a viable alternative to the car. I'd happily use my car less if public transport was cheaper, more frequent, and more reliable.

[@PlugLifeTelevision]

Agreed with you on public transport. Inductive charging will be more expensive to install, and given our inability to keep on top of potholes, it could be more prone to damage than we'd originally thought. It has uses for taxi ranks and people with limited mobility who may struggle with cables, though.

[@decimal1815]

@@PlugLifeTelevision maybe they could start with inductive charging in multi storey car parks?

[@johnmightymole2284]

Good, but more of a lecture than an interview.

[@andrewwaller5913]

The owner gives up and buys a proper car.😂

[@patterdalezipsuzilil]

Electic cars are finished in the water 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@moragkerr9577]

Have you seen the "Vehicles vs Floods" videos? There isn't a single case of an EV failing to get through, and there are plenty of EVs in the clips. An MG4 more or less swam the Buttsbury wash and lived to tell the tale. There's a whole compendium of Teslas going through Rufford ford like they were submarines, one up to its windscreen. The drivers are doing it for fun. The Nissan Leaf is certified for a wading depth of 700 mm (2' 8"). There are promotional videos of EV manufacturers lowering the cars into tanks of water and driving away afterwards. My own car's electrics are certified for 30 minutes at 1 metre depth, although they point out that the door seals are only 1' 8" above the road, so presumably you could get wet carpets if you weren't careful. If you have to drive through a flood, you're far more likely to make it to the other side in an EV than in an ICE car.

[@niceboy60]

The main issue is Charging is not Profitable, a 150kwh charger costs 60k they won't get their money back regardless there for no incentive to keep wasting money on it A fuel Station Serves 50 cars in hour If its cold ❄️ A charging station serves one & often connections fail

[@PlugLifeTelevision]

Norway has very cold winters and the highest EV uptake in the world - 80% of new car sales in Norway are electric. They wouldn't be if chargers failed in the cold. Incidentally, petrol pumps have been known to fail in freezing cold weather.

[@salibaba]

One pesky thing with liquid fuel at service stations, it doesn’t actually have a high margin for the retailers. That’s why at the services it more expensive as well as having lots of high margin opportunities to sell food, refreshments and snacks. EV charging hubs will fit the same model, use only when needed. They’ll make money from coffees cakes and sausage rolls just like they do now with petrol drivers. Some sites like Gridserve are also using grid batteries on sites now to provide grid services. They overspecced and pre-installed a very large connection ready for higher future loads from high power chargers. They make money from it now by offering balancing services to the local grid.

[@niceboy60]

@@PlugLifeTelevision it's called Government subsides & incentives once they install the Chargers, they don't care about mataining it

[@niceboy60]

@@salibaba you could get away with low margins of you can serve 50 people in 1 hour

[@robertedge6326]

If an EV fails at a charger this is not the same as ICE issues if their battery fails. The RAC needs a diesel generator to charge an EV, not exactly a green solution. Buy an ICE vehicle as EVs are not the way as their pollution from build out ways any other motor vehicle

[@PlugLifeTelevision]

EV embodied carbon is paid back swiftly vs a petrol or diesel car. Even Volvo's overly pessimistic report concluded that an EV breaks even with a petrol car's CO2 emissions within at most 16% of its lifespan, and proceeds to deliver huge savings beyond this. Ways to give emergency charges to EVs without diesel generators are covered in the video. EVs regularly use renewable energy to charge, but diesel cars always use diesel as fuel.

[@seantaylor9758]

I've still go my Morris traveller and over 60 years old but can still start it on the handle if needed.