PnP Vision Boost: Keep the Camera, Upgrade Performance | Simple hardware enhancement

[@Rafaelguitarplayer]

Show the other mods, dude. Your openPNP content is the best on youtube. 🤘

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Thanks Rafael! That's the kind of comment that makes me want to just drop client projects and get back to making vids :D I've got a few stacked already but so much to say, so little time. Anyhow, working on it, have a few good ones in line, but I think @UndernetSystems up in the comments there has convinced me that the sort order will be some openpnp stuff first and then more physical mods.

[@V3T9]

The shenzen scene was very funny 😄

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

I thought so too -- laughed rewatching it, twice -- but you're the first to mention it, hah! Thanks for the feedback :) Cheers

[@FriendlyIntentions]

The shenzen scene had me rolling man. Damn, thats good. This pnp looks pretty damn good.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

haha, yeah I had fun! And I jest about the company in this vid, but I have to say I'm very happy with the machine. It's true my use of it is light: I do *not* use it for industrial production, and all my runs are prototypes so usually between 5 and 25 or so of any one board, and I don't think I've ever done more than 60 of any one thing. But, at least for my needs, the thing is fast and fun to use.

[@pirateradio1926]

Please give us more updates on your modifications when you can. This stuff is extremely motivating

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

I kinda left the PnP coverage behind, uncertain how much interest there'd be--but I've had one in the queue about the feeders (often a huge pain point for me), so will try to at least get that one out.

[@johnmccardle]

More PnP content, please. I bought a LumenPNP because I was intimidated by liteplacer / the stuff you had to get up to. I got it assembled but I'm still insufficiently skilled with OpenPNP to make it a routine part of my workflow.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Yes! I'm on it. I'm a little feeder-obsessed, when it comes to PnP stuff, and it's something I want to talk about more... been such a big topic, and am still learning new things, kinda stopped me from going much deeper so far. But I'll just chunk it and go step by step, so the topic isn't so massive, and prob have the next pnp-focused vid related to that. I don't know the Lumen well, but it certainly looks like a more straightforward build, and the feeder support looks pretty great. Have you done runs with it? What are you impressions of the machine, re: ease, speed, reliability?

[@spehropefhany]

Very interesting videos, look forward to more! I see some nascent support for OpenPNP-compatible hardware, hopefully it can follow a trajectory similar to 3D printers (though the market isn't as big). BTW, there's usually a capacitor across the output of the PSU (470uF on one of mine) so if you just slap it across the output you'll discharge the 5V charged cap through the LED before the current limit takes control. Not ideal.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Yeah, I think you're correct about the discharge--that, and the non-zero delay for things to happen--as the LEDs always have a burst on first contact... maybe not an LED I want to include on a board, but I've yet to actually blow one this way (over-cooking, tho... ugh the WS2812's were so sensitive). So yeah, I'll sometimes sacrifice one when in a rush but it's mostly been when in a pinch. Still think it's cool ;-)

[@maciejwierzbowski4511]

i think am the only one working as pnp operator and watching these machines on my free time

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

hah! You probably get called obsessive or workaholic or ubergeek or something: lemme tell ya, I know the feeling. Seems it's not easy being interested in what you do, or easy to understand anyway. What kind of machines are they? Must be monsters compared to this thing.

[@BuzZ.]

i love this channel, I hope you'll grow quickly

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Thanks a lot! I also hope my stuff makes it to the people who can enjoy and use it--I just need to get more of it out! In any case, I'm happy with steadily reaching the makers and the curious, rather than getting an explosion of short attention-span viral type deals :)

[@SomeTechGuy666]

Really cool you used Octave ! Well done.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Hi! Oh Octave? Yeah, I use it for some heavyduty stuff but for a long time now--because I always have a terminal handy anyway and because it's faster than using a mouse--I turn to it whenever I need to do any basic calculation. Why load some "calculator" application when you can do so much right there, with your keyboard? Plus the persistent history and reverse search are just so useful. Actually, I also use python for this, especially when I need to play with bits (no idea how I'd do "bin( (10 | 22)

[@redcracklp9592]

Love these "small" videos!

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Thanks! Yeah, I've been doing fatter ones, lately, but would do have a few focused mini-tip type things I'd like to put out. Sorry it took me a month to answer--been a bit nuts, as happens around here a bit too often, hah.

[@electrodacus]

Looking to upgrade form the old CHMT28 (will love a bit more feeders). There are constant current limiting devices just two pins if you want a more constant current with variable voltage. This as an example is 10mA NSI50010YT1G and it requires a minimum below 2V drop to start limiting at 10mA I was looking at the CHMT48VA as do deal with an external computer it just need to work. I subscribed as maybe if I ever get time I modify the old CHMT28 adding vision. The red wire was funny and reminds me of the EVE and CATL large format LiFePO4 cells that use black to denote the positive terminal (at least negative is not red but also not black).

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Your comment had me back on the charmhigh site and I finally realized why there was such a nice port in that front panel, under the fat sticker--it's to add a screen... hah, I might think about a home-rolled version of the 48. Will add that to the stack of copious-free-time projects. But really, I like having openpnp on an external system that I can manage and upgrade without touching the machine. They came out with the T36VB, while I was sitting on this machine in its box. From what I gather, it's the same system as mine with a *whole lot* of feeders, as in double, so that might be worth looking at. With the space I have for it, I'm ok with the T36VA but I did have a tinge of regret when I saw it. That CCR is a very cool solution that would guarantee consistent lighting regardless of the V provided by the pnp... for 50 cents. Nice. And yeah, the wiring bit me. Often I just measure stuff without paying attention to the MM leads and sticking them in there however is most convenient, caring about the value but not the sign. I also have a little mental note about double checking lithium batteries, especially those from ebay/aliexpress/alibaba as I've seen both flipped wiring colours and, more often, flipped JST connectors. Just didn't expect it inside this machine. Hah, lesson learned.

[@electrodacus]

@@PsychogenicTechnologies Yes space is also a problem form me that is why I initially went with the CHMT28 and is also why now I'm looking at the 48VA instead of 48VB. I was also looking at NeoDen YY1 but that has way to many drawbacks compared to the Charmhigh models. On the YY1 the peeler mechanism is way worse and the placement speed is basically half.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

@@electrodacus Ah, yeah, 48VA seems a good compromise then. Have worked out--though am still perfecting--some ways to increase the feeder capacity a bit without taking up more physical footprint. NeoDen: not exactly a stellar sales pitch, there, hah! What would the upside be, form factor? So far, I'm really happy with the CHM. And I'm not even pushing it to its limits (suboptimal support stand, still).

[@electrodacus]

@@PsychogenicTechnologies As you noticed this Charmhigh CHMT's are fairly heavy so the YY1 being a bit more compact and almost half the weight is a positive. Neoden YY1 is 64 x 55 x 60 cm and 35kg Charmhigh CHMT48VB is 132 x 70 x 34 cm and 68kg Fairly hard to get parts for the Charmhigh. I had the resistive touch fail on my CHMT28 5" screen and was unable to contact them to get a replacement. Luckily I had an old 5" GPS device that had basically the same screen and was able to replace it with that one that works fine for the past few years.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Ooof, the parts thing isn't something I've had to deal with yet. It was one of the major upsides of the liteplacer, everything was basically COTS. As for the weight--had no idea it was so different, but I think I like the inertia of this beast--something of a counterbalance to the speed of the head moving around.

[@UndernetSystems]

Great video. Please show the other mods.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Thank you! This is perfect: I used to basically randomly make vids based on whatever caught my fancy, and though I'll still be focused on stuff that interests me, I figure if you can let me know what's actually interesting then I can spend more time on content that's useful to you. So, thanks again and happy you liked. My stack of stuff to say about this machine and openpnp is deep, but I'm already working on it :)

[@UndernetSystems]

@@PsychogenicTechnologies No, thank you. Your openpnp content is probably close to the best on youtube. I designed and built this pick and place machine that I have some small videos on my channel about, and to me the most daunting part of the design has been getting openpnp working with it.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

@@UndernetSystems :-D Thanks! Ok, well I was hesitating between a mod and an openpnp-specific focus for the next one, but I've learnt a lot about the feeders using this machine and maybe that'd be the best next-pnp vid to do.

[@norm1124]

Thanks for all the nice insights.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

And thank you for taking the time to share your comment! Glad it was useful/enjoyable :)

[@zdenkostanec1622]

Cheers Pat, nice work!

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Many thanks, and cheers back at ya :) Funny, I mentioned the idea of using a granite stand for the PnP in another comment and think I was inspired by your setup. How goes the dev on that?

[@zdenkostanec1622]

@@PsychogenicTechnologies Hey, It is going well, X, Y, Z1, Z2, and 4 nozzles are alive along with all other valves and LEDs. I made a small custom PCBA to control two pumps so that on longer jobs one pump does not overheat (on every OpenPnP pump trigger different pump is activated). Currently, I am finishing the conveyor design which OpenPnP does not support still, but it can be done via some Scripting and adding Head2 alongside Head1 in the OpenPnP machine config. Btw, I know who to contact for scripting support! Wink Wink! 😅

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

@@zdenkostanec1622 Awesome. Ya, *do* ping me if you want to do some neat extending, either as scripts or into openpnp proper if it's widely usable--would be fun to play with such a capable machine, and one _you_ built at that!

[@zdenkostanec1622]

@@PsychogenicTechnologies Cheers Pat, will keep in touch!

[@MrAbrVal1]

Awesome video,and so entertaining so cooool :)

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Hi Val, thanks so much! I still have more mods and PnP related stuff to say, it's just been pushed back repeatedly by ASIC and FPGA and trips and ... but, boy, do I want to show some of the neat stuff I've done with this cool machine. Soon? Eventually, anyway :) Cheers

[@robingilham]

Love you video thanks. I have a QiHe TVM802 which I am in the middle of upgrading to OpenPnP myself. I've paired it with a Rapidboard running Smoothie and I've got to the point where I am needing some time to calibrate it. I've upgraded the camera's too. I was wondering on how you configured the drag feeders with the friction wheels for removing the tape.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Nice! The feeders: that's supposed to be my very next video--keep getting distracted by kicad--but it's already recorded, dammit, just need the time to edit. Short version is you've got two actuators to play with and after some tweaking (and some breakage, lol) I found some good recipes. Shouldn't be long to come out.

[@sandsack123]

In brightest day, in blackest night, no fiducial shall escape my sight...

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

That's from Macbeth, right? hahahawesome :)

[@ergindemir7366]

You could shine the leds with 45 degree angle from 2 sides, have you tried that?

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Hi! No, haven't tried that. Could improve things but on one hand they are working pretty well now and on the other I've always been sub-par in terms of mechanicals--could always 3d print stuff to accomplish this, but it's probably more fiddling than it's worth... but, dunno until I try it. Thanks!

[@_-martin-_]

Buddy, you need to get a heavy duty table for that monster! :D

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

hahah, I knoooow. What I need is a proper alter, something made from granite painstakingly transported from Aswan to appease the PCBgods, but alas. Just setting it lower would help... the pnp, not mah back, tho! Keeping fingers crossed in the meantime, it's been ok *knocks on the old ikea horror used prior*

[@ProtonOne11]

@@PsychogenicTechnologies Maybe add some canisters filled with sand/water to the bottom of the table, to make it heavier? You just need some mass in there so that the accelerating tool head has some counterweight to work against. Having the weight in portable canisters makes it easier to move around piece by piece, and you can even tune out resonance issues if you want to go deeper in to the rabbit hole... 😬

[@SONUAGGARWAL]

Where can I find info to convert my 36VA to same fiducial finder as you did..

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Do you mean the little LED ring? The link for that is in the description above... otherwise, it's just a matter of splicing it into the power that comes in on the crossbar for the LED strip. If I didn't actually answer your question: let me know! :)

[@criznach]

Does it have a bottom camera? I'm curious how you set up the part recognition pipelines. Those have always been a pain.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Yes indeed, it does have a bottom camera. In addition: I have also found bottom part alignment something of a real pain. Getting it working isn't so hard, it's getting it working reliably... maybe if I installed these things in rooms with no windows/steady lighting, things would be better. And if I conceded to give the head one of those sombreros type screens to even things out a bit for the vision... Still, I have yet to play with it much with the CHM machine mostly because I've got a pattern where I definitely use the bottom cam for nozzle calibration, but hardly ever for part alignment: 0402s, ICs... the precision of these things and the reflow process seem to handle a whole lot of the alignment for me. But, it can be improved and it is something I want to look into further, especially as it seems I may have a larger-than-usual batch to do this summer.

[@ProtonOne11]

@@PsychogenicTechnologies I agree, consistent light helps a lot to get the vision more reliable. I have been thinking to just hack up a cardboard box that goes over the pnp machine to block out most light sources. If that works as a proof of concept, I can always make a nicer box/frame out of wood or metal with a hinge to fold it away. What would be really cool is if there was some kind of "background light calibration script" that would look at a known part (or the nozzle), adjust the camera settings and try some parameter sweeps to get the best possible vision detection. Machine vision and our perception of an image with our eyes and brain are not the same, so maybe this would actually help to find the best settings for MV and not just give us humans a pretty preview image in OpenPnP.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Yeah, you're right that are eyes have insane dynamic range and don't act like cmos sensors... Hm, that calib script idea seems pretty good. Like a gray card for photo/cinematography. I don't know how much this would improve things compared to the auto exposure on the cam, but at least some of my problems in the past were due to rapid changes in light due to moving around and that adjustment being slow/imperfect. So the "black box", or some form of steady lighting at least (I really don't want to get in my own way when doing runs--sometimes I need to see and touch this machine), and a single shot calibration might help. Some experimentation is warranted.

[@criznach]

@@PsychogenicTechnologies I had similar issues with my attempts. I blocked off the windows and built a super-bright LED housing for the bottom cam. But I never found a bulletproof pipeline that could reliably recognize more than rectangular parts. I was hoping to get better failure detection and rotation detection, but no luck so far. I'll be dusting off the machine again soon, and updating OpenPNP. I don't think I've used it in a year, so there are probably improvements made.

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Yeah, am concluding this is an area worthy of further investigation... maybe not for the next vid, tho, hah.

[@alfiz9943]

Best!

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Thanks!

[@flashpackets9900]

Did you abandon the Lite Placer?

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Not completely? Fact is it has been gathering dust in a corner. The CHM is fast and easier to feed, but boy oh boy does it not have much vertical clearance. This will be a problem with some connectors, even electrolytic caps. So, I'm waiting to see how much trouble that causes, and if I have batches that would benefit from a 2 machine system.

[@flashpackets9900]

@@PsychogenicTechnologies Interesting. The feeder turns out to be the reason my Lite Placer is still a virgin. Organizing parts seems to be a major issue for me. For small builds it seems like the optimal solution would be to just dump the components into a little dish and let the P&P locate and orient the part. That would also require flipping components... complicated. The goal is to make PCBs not design and build the latest state of the art in P&P robotics. So, if your Lite Placer had some sort of smart feeder that you could load up with parts and forget about until it's empty, would that machine be dusted off?

[@tuqe]

Work on your clickbait, im shocked you dont have more subs with the quality of your content!

[@PsychogenicTechnologies]

Thank you for that! :D The fact is I realized pretty recently that "The Algorithm" wasn't a meritocracy based solely on the informational _content_, that I should maybe put a bit more juice in the *container* as well. I've been trying to up my game there, because if I make something cool and useful, but no one actually knows about it, so can't use it and have to then re-invent the wheel, then it was all for naught. Don't think I'll be able to bring myself to "You'll never believe what my pick & place did!!1!" or the big oh-face-of-flabbergast, but I am working on presenting things so the people who might benefit will actually give the video a chance. It's a slow process, 'cause what I really love to do is... you know... tech, hah. Thanks again, cheers.