Podcast Episode #2: Conquer Aging or Die Trying ^ Crissman Loomis (@Unaging.com)

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Apologies for the screen share being cut off-we'll have to sort that out for future videos... Timestamps, Paper Links, and Glyphosate in Oats Links: 0:00 Introduction 0:47 Diet Quality Impacts Life Expectancy 24:10 Glucosamine 26:20 Bryan Johnson 29:20 NAD: Nicotinic acid vs NMN 32:31 Trigonelline 35:50 Methyl Donors Besides Trimethylglycine (TMG) 38:15 Proline Betaine 41:20 Sauna 50:52 Oral Health 54:45 Alcohol Previous discussion, Podcast #1: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4etdJVvoNSbaKM Glyphosate tests in oat cereals and snacks: www.ewg.org/sites/default/files/u352/EWG_Glyphosate-2_Table_Full_C02.pdf Healthy diet reduces premature death by 4-5 years: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207481/ Adjusting for many variables reduces premature death by 10 years: www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00868-w High pesticide fruits and vegetables effect on cancer: Intake of fruits and vegetables according to pesticide residue status in relation to all-cause and disease-specific mortality: Results from three prospective cohort studies www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412021006498# Glucosamine supplement effect on premature death: Associations of regular glucosamine use with all-cause and cause-specific mortality: a large prospective cohort study | Annals of the Rheumatic Diseases ard.bmj.com/content/79/6/829.abstract Sauna bathing effects on premature death: Association Between Sauna Bathing and Fatal Cardiovascular and All-Cause Mortality Events jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2130724 Sauna bathing effects on VO2max: Effects of regular sauna bathing in conjunction with exercise on cardiovascular function: a multi-arm, randomized controlled trial journals.physiology.org/doi/epdf/10.1152/ajpregu.00076.2022 Sauna suits or hot bath effects on VO2max: Post-Exercise Passive Heating Strategies with Hot Water Immersion and Sauna Suits Improve VO2max, Running Economy, and Lactate Threshold ijrep.org/wp-content/uploads/lana-downloads/2020/01/dalleck.et_.al_.fall_.2019.pdf Hot bath effects on CVD: Habitual tub bathing and risks of incident coronary heart disease and stroke heart.bmj.com/content/heartjnl/106/10/732.full.pdf Dental care effects on premature death: Dental Health Behaviors, Dentition, and Mortality in the Elderly: The Leisure World Cohort Study www.hindawi.com/journals/jar/2011/156061/ Alcohol low or high consumption effect on premature death: The Impact of Healthy Lifestyle Factors on Life Expectancies in the US population www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6207481/ Alcohol effect on premature death by daily amount: Association Between Daily Alcohol Intake and Risk of All-Cause Mortality pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37000449/

[@jobyyboj]

Finnish sauna study: "After adjustment for established CVD risk factors, potential confounders including physical activity, socioeconomic status, and incident coronary heart disease, the corresponding HRs (95% CIs) were 0.75 (0.52 to 1.08) and 0.23 (0.08 to 0.65), respectively. The duration of sauna use (minutes per week) was inversely associated with CVD mortality in a continuous manner. Addition of information on sauna bathing frequency to a CVD mortality risk prediction model containing established risk factors was associated with a C-index change (0.0091; P = 0.010), difference in − 2 log likelihood (P = 0.019), and categorical net reclassification improvement (4.14%; P = 0.004)."

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks @jobyyboj. They included adjustment for a lot of factors (see below), but I'd like to see all adjustment for co-morbidities (liver, kidney, and lung diseases, as examples), not just CVD- and metabolic health related. "Hazard ratios of the associations of frequency and duration of sauna bathing with CVD mortality were progressively adjusted for age and gender (model 1); BMI, smoking, systolic blood pressure (SBP), serum low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C), alcohol consumption, previous myocardial infarction, and type 2 diabetes (model 2); total duration of physical activity per week and SES (model 3); and incident CHD events as a time-varying covariate (model 4), as it is a known factor in the pathway for development of CVD mortality."

[@sooooooooDark]

something nice about alcohol is like its a depressant so it sorta works like adaptogens (not like i noticed anything from supposedly "actual" adaptogenic plants but yea) the effect is similar to when eating a very low (

[@helenbroadfoot8511]

Always such a pleasure to listen to you, Mike. I learn so much! ❤

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks Helen!

[@helenbroadfoot8511]

P.S. Would love your recipe for home made snack bars😊

[@benssasiyacine]

Thanks doctor Michael verry interessting vidéo 😊😊😊

[@MaxwellPietsch]

This is an awesome video. It was great to get some different info, like teeth brushing and sauna, which I'd never heard before, and to hear Michael's thoughts on these new topics! Learned a few super useful things. Thanks guys!

[@ChessMasterNate]

Dr. Lustgarten chose a graph in the UK study that may have paid a price for including just one more correction (for energy). That may not have been a good trade. When they corrected for everything else, they still had 367,501 people (p.55 supplemental material). After correcting for energy (calories, I assume) it was down to 162,112. Adjustment for body mass index, age, sex, socio-demographic area, smoking, alcohol consumption, and activity level was already in there. We get the odd white meat result only after that energy adjustment. But other things move as well. The red meat becomes less logical. I am also starting to wonder if those in the 5th quintile of legume and nuts consumption might have had a high probability of being vegetarians or vegans. Maybe that would have been the better adjustment. Or just break it into two groups, veggies and omnivores. I don't think veggie is optimal, but the way people do omnivore is often very unhealthy. Also, looking at that "b" graph instead suggests one should have high diversity of diet, maybe that is why the best level was second quintile for several categories. It suggests: "everything in moderation" except more vegetables, fruits, milk and white meat, and drop refined grains entirely. And where it is not second quintile, it is very close in value. One of the reasons I think milk is good is because the calcium in it helps remove lead. It is hard to get good sources of calcium, because they are often already tainted by lead. If it is the lead, I would expect the same result for a US population. Probably even stronger. In the "b" graph, they only needed a little more milk. Which makes sense. You can only make use of so much calcium. Taking this hypothesis to extreme of moderation and diversity of diet, one could try eating as many different things as feasible, that don't have refined grains. Maybe eat 50 or 100 different vegetables and fruits in a month, a dozen or more kinds of raw nuts and seeds. Maybe a bunch of different spices too? Different edible mushrooms, seafood, etc. This would also make sense if there are a lot of toxins in foods, naturally or otherwise. You would be less likely to get a concentration of any of them. It would be a pain to try to document your diet, though.

[@peterz53]

On diet, two things - I recently listened to 2 long time researchers on diet and health/longevity, Walter Willet and Gary Fraser, and consider their information to be very credible and supportive of a plant dominant/no junk food diet. Recommend them. Fraser does a good job of explaining the fine points of the Adventist studies. I consider Attia to have about zero credibility on diet especially as he discounts it as being on par with exercise, which he is a bit anal about.

[@InquilineKea]

Amen

[@javadhashtroudian5740]

At 77 I get much of my calories from raw nuts. Peanuts are legumes and peanut butter is full of sugar. Also most people eat salty roasted nuts which ruin the fats. I intermitten fast 4 days a week and have green vegetables each day. My physiologial age is 10 years younger than my chronological age.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Maybe cheap PB is full of sugar, but there is plenty of store-bought PB that has no sugar, just roasted peanuts and salt as ingredients.

[@michael-qp9xd]

Great video. You mention only supplement take is glucosamine type. I’m runner at 70 and back 5 years ago at my yearly eye check up my glaucoma check my number up near 25 so bit high. Was taking glucosamine more for prevention of joint issues. I checked more and saw that glucosamine side effect can increase eye pressure. So stopped and now number around 17 so is now normal. Maybe not related though. Thinking maybe to try again for 2 to 3 months leading up to next eye exam and see if back high. Any thinking on this from you guys would be great. Thanks for video and all your time/efforts.

[@CrissmanLoomis]

One of the other posters mentioned the increased ocular pressure. If borderline, I would stop the glucosamine supplementation.

[@michael-qp9xd]

Guys - on sauna- heard interview of Bryan Johnson and he was asked why not sauna. He said his big team of doctors and researchers examined and found evidence not there for benefits so then not in his longevity regime. Maybe as you mention here Michael the benefits of sauna for only overweight people. Any comments more on sauna great if you look more into this and maybe do a video. Thanks

[@CrissmanLoomis]

Thanks for the comment, @michael-qp9xd. I was wondering why Bryan Johnson wasn't throwing some of his money at building a personal sauna. I would have thought it was worth it for him even if only for the VO2max gains.

[@sooooooooDark]

with alc id say its better to stay on the safe side and rather underconsume than overconsume 1 glas of wine is like 145ml or so and 100ml wine contain like 12.5ml alcohol usually, which (the 12ml) is the absolute maximum id consider to be in the range of being healthy from all the studies ive looked thru, everything above my intuition goes on red alert 😂 most certainly our organisms have developed eating a bit over overripe fruit here and there thruout the last 6+ million years (yea i know weak ad naturam fallacy but i dont care, the data seems reasonable to assume that low dose anything natural that occurs commonly in nature (such as fermented fruits) is highly unlikely to be poisonous with very few exceptions...except like certain mushrooms and the odd deadly herb)

[@neilquinn]

Interesting takes on homocysteine. I use b12 also but haven't retested homocysteine yet since I started. Might look at some of the food options as well. I'm still not sure if reducing homocysteine actually will improve anything or if it's just a byproduct of other issues. (Kind of like vitamin D levels)

[@jskweres2]

Which rolled oats do you use to limit pesticides? If you don't use any, what would you buy? I looked online but didn't see an alternative. Maybe it is something else in place of it?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Right, apologies for the omission, and I'll put this in the pinned comment: www.ewg.org/sites/default/files/u352/EWG_Glyphosate-2_Table_Full_C02.pdf

[@peterz53]

2008 Thermal Immersion study by U of Ottawa Heart Institute showed consistent major improvements in various cardiac parameter for heart failure patients using sauna or hot water therapy. I wonder though whether there is benefit for people who exercise already and have good blood pressure. Maybe an added effect on heat shock proteins?

[@CrissmanLoomis]

I favor looking at the final impact (all-cause mortality, VO2max improvement, etc.) over mechanisms like heat shock proteins. You're correct that the VO2max improvement studies appear to have been on untrained people, but I'd expect benefits would apply to trained as well. I've upped my sauna time to over three hours weekly for my marathon training.

[@yzilber]

igg good sensitivity test is useful il your view? you mentioned using it. I want sure if we have good evidence for idea reliability....

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Hey Jazi, yep, as it correlates with objective symptoms in my case for most beans, and other foods like kiwi.

[@geoffwhite3385]

glucosamine is fine, but don't claim it's zero risk. A multitude of studies have shown that in a large proportion of users glucosamine increases Intra-ocular pressure. For anyone taking glucosamine it's vital to get tonometry (intra-ocular pressure measured) before starting glucosamine & afterwards, and then regular testing every couple of years. Also the glucosamine data on longevity is hopelessly confounded by healthy user bias... Just think of the type of person who is likely to take glucosamine

[@jackbuaer3828]

In at least one study, the researchers attempted to account for healthy user bias with these covariates: "After controlling for various factors -- such as participants' age, sex, smoking status and activity level -- the researchers found that taking glucosamine/chondroitin every day for a year or longer was associated with a 39 percent reduction in all-cause mortality. West Virginia University. "Glucosamine may reduce overall death rates as effectively as regular exercise, study suggests." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 1 December 2020.

[@CrissmanLoomis]

@geoffwhite3385 Good point about the non-zero risk for glucosamine. My IOP is often borderline at my regular checkups, so it's essential to monitor. Healthy user bias is addressed by models that address confounders. The glucosamine study accounted for the standard confounders (age, sex, education, income, BMI, FV intake, and other supplements...) for 28 different confounders.

[@avoycendeether8869]

The problem with the Sandoval-Insausti paper mentioned @ ~21:00 are two fold. #1, they are comparing what are most likely two different populations of people. The group of people who always make sure to buy FVs that qualify as low-pesticide-residue according to the paper's methodology are different from the group of people who don't in many other ways that would impact all-cause mortality. #2, the paper makes no attempt to actually assess real, actual pesticide residues. Just because a veggie isn't labeled 'organic' doesn't mean it has high pesticide residue. We don't actually know how much residue any study participant was exposed to. The most likely cause for difference in all-cause mortality in that paper is the aggregate difference in lifestyles of the two groups, not consumption of pesticide residues which may or may not have happened. But, probably because these two commentators would expect a certain outcome from such a study (they already believed the hypothesis) they find this paper to be compelling evidence.

[@jonathonmills3563]

5 methyl folate. I understand your methionine argument, add glycine. It blocks the pathway . Elevated homocysteine is proven to be deleterious, slightly higher methionine is only negative in one mouse study.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Already tried glycine, no effect on homocysteine: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hX2TeGVnfNCbZqs

[@xscale]

There's actually negligible trigonelline in coffee. Best dietary sources are clover and giant radish.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Hey @xscale. see the chart at 4:20 for the top trigonelline-containing foods, where we can see coffee atop the list. If you have published data for red clover and radish, please post them.

[@xscale]

Sure. Here's radish: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7353243/ And here's clover: journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1934578X0800300906 @@conqueragingordietrying123

[@xscale]

And kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHu0Xo2KZa2fb6c

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Thanks Peter for posting this paper on FB! "ingestion of 170 g/day of Sakurajima radish for ten days increased blood trigonelline concentrations and significantly improved flow-mediated dilation, which is a measure of vascular endothelial function" pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32585930/

[@LVArturs]

​@@conqueragingordietrying123so is the first poster correct in that coffee is a poor source? Or is the radish just another good addition to the list?

[@InquilineKea]

Wait i thought high pesticide residue means no mortality reduction, not increased mortality (it's not J shaped.. it's more mirror-image-J-shaped)

[@CrissmanLoomis]

You're correct on both accounts. It's a reverse J-shape, and there isn't a statistically significant increase in cancer deaths over the baseline for the amounts given in the study. Given the effect trend, it's better for someone with big fruit/vegetable consumption, like Micheal, to go organic, especially for the high pesticide residue foods.

[@LeoShoSilva]

I think eating certain stuff on an empty stomach is probably not satiating.Although if I were going to eat a granola bar it would be after a meal ...It's called a pudding 😊

[@jskweres2]

How do you make your own granola bars?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Oats + Medjool dates is a good start...

[@jskweres2]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 please create a vid on it!

[@ATT935]

FINALLY! I ALSO USE THE ACTUAL WHOLE COCOA BEANS! everyone high on these supposed "high flavonol coco powders" nonsense... literally just bought 1Kg of whole cooca beans for 9 euros... i feel like people have no idea you can just buy the beans and eat them. Hope you share this info more!

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Nice, I agree-I've been on the whole cacao beans kick for about 10y: michaellustgarten.com/2014/09/21/homemade-chocolate-in-2-minutes/

[@ATT935]

lmao! that's literally how i eat them too 1 date + a handful of cocoa beans does the trick @@conqueragingordietrying123

[@vedransimic86]

Hmm, didn't know. Does cocoa powder have disadvatages compared to whole cocaoa beans?

[@ATT935]

by the time it is processed hits the shelf and reach your home is probably more oxidised being in powder form and this is given for granteed that is whole cocoa which is rare since most is dutched or goes to some other process where something is removed may be the husk of the bean or whatever... also is more expensive @@vedransimic86

[@assadk88]

Doesn’t cacao leach heavy metals from soil? You need to be careful of the source

[@tommyortiz6623]

Another note I seen: Amazon shows prop 65 on nicotinic acid from seller bulksupplements for high amounts of arsenic cadmium and cadmium compounds. What are your thoughts on this?

[@sooooooooDark]

33:57 same xD thats why i do coffee extract, one of the rare cases where the whole food is yikes hopefully it got some goodies still left in there other than the chlorogenic acid but who knows 😂

[@imtryinghere1]

How is meat, white 0.44 and not colored green. This coloring makes no sense. Egg is colored red, but refined grains aren't with a worse HR?

[@christiancrafoord]

interesting video, when can we expect u to experiment with red wine or alcohol? i think everyone would appreciate some data to elucidate the confusion in this manner😂?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Ha, I'm not sure-if I do, it will be in very small doses, like 30 mL/d or less, as alcohol intake may raise DHEAS. However, I have a different experiment in progress to try to raise DHEAS...

[@InquilineKea]

Intermediate legume consumption with higher HR doesn't make sense

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

It's not significant, as the 95%CI overlaps with a HR of 1, so I wouldn't read anything into it

[@GaiasFleas]

Sorry I didn't understand why you would want to increase cholesterol. Why add saturated fat if you don't need to (it's just extra calories + you stress the intima of the arteries)?

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

What's the timestamp?

[@GaiasFleas]

@@conqueragingordietrying123 12:05 but now that I rewatch it, you were talking about a hypothetical there I think. I don't know if you are actually trying to raise cholesterol. Though you did mention in a prior video that centenarians don't have low cholesterol.

[@timh-c7186]

Apologies..Michael, your guest lost me for a while when he said a slice of whole wheat bread was healthy ....I hung in there as a fan of your logic and balance

[@hereforthememes2351]

Timestamps anyone? 😬

[@ATT935]

bro update ur chrome... also yeah the color scheme and the table etc is a complete disaster is making me go insane while watching... and i am not a scientist... P.S. stop being pro cholesterol is weird and the data is against it.

[@conqueragingordietrying123]

Will do, thanks @ATT935. I'm not pro or anti-cholesterol, I follow the published data.

[@ATT935]

I understand but i want to point out this to you: You mentioned that despite increasing your egg consumption and, more broadly, your dietary cholesterol intake, there was no significant impact on your LDL or total cholesterol levels. This is intriguing because there's established evidence suggesting dietary cholesterol does affect these levels, while the belief that it doesn't has been debunked (as you mentioned). You speculate that perhaps your fiber intake might be mitigating the cholesterol effects. However, I would recommend assessing your "fed state cholesterol." Research indicates that dietary cholesterol can cause an extremely sharp increase in serum cholesterol levels post-meal, with these heightened levels persisting for up to six hours. Since blood tests typically require fasting, this post-meal cholesterol spike often goes undetected. Yet, considering most people spend their day in a fed state, consuming cholesterol at various meals could keep their levels consistently elevated (ex: an egg at breakfast, a steak at lunch and some cheese at dinner). It's crucial to understand that this elevation might be just as harmful as that caused by other factors since we do not have any data to suggest is different in the possible damages. To observe this effect firsthand, try measuring your cholesterol after eating a dietary cholesterol containing food; the results might offer more insight so you can see for yourself. @@conqueragingordietrying123

[@jonathonmills3563]

Listening to the guest’s commentary on supplements was painful. He should stick to what he’s knowledgeable about