Salamence Banned in Smogon UU! Discussion w/ PokeaimMD & TonyFlygon

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Salamence has been banned from Smogon UU! What are your thoughts?
Smogon Thread: goo.gl/io1rB0
Tony: / tonyflygon
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Thanks for all the Support! - Joey!
asfgerthrrth Enjoy!

[@TheRandomThings23]

as soon as my man cutiefly drops mences ass going straight back to uu guaranteed

[@mattesses70]

yup

[@morataDL]

hahahahah

[@jadineanderson8495]

cutiefly ou confirmed?

[@legendoftytoki7222]

Blunder must be drunk talking about cutiefly having no competitive future

[@Proteus_Ridley]

Nah. Cutiefly is wrecked by Fire Blast and Stone Edge.

[@Blackguy610]

Damn salamence is gone. They can't keep banning all these broken mons. How else do they except bad players to win.

[@mattesses70]

ikr

[@minion-zt1jg]

ez use stall

[@minion-zt1jg]

ez use stall

[@EyanZ1997]

+minion6756 too bad stall is actually the worst playstyle in uu atm. Shoutouts to pokemonisfun for still being able to make it work

[@thekingbradable]

forreal lmao

[@Aslucian_]

BL is starting to become its own tier xd

[@MaahirMomtaz12]

Look at Gen 3 BL xD

[@mattr5750]

Honestly that would be nice. If it got big enough.

[@CreamFraiche]

BL 3 and BL are taking over man

[@odie9202]

Most of the stuff in BL are honestly viable in OU.

[@chocolatebunny8667]

+PlanetaryRogue BL is in a weird place. Too good for UU. Too shitty for OU

[@trevenflynn4780]

TONY FLYGON IS BIAS HE OBVIOUSLY HATES SALAMENCE JUST LOOK AT HIS NAME

[@jadineanderson8495]

#fuckflygon

[@ryudada]

he's hoping flygon will rise to UU

[@predator3099]

RIP half of my UU teams :\

[@GDKsan]

your UU team had 3 salamences in it?

[@bruv6036]

half of his teams had a salamance

[@80manjr]

He means his UU teams had a Salamence

[@jadineanderson8495]

+Ali Baghirzada calm your ass down he was just clarifying

[@aearktik6014]

+Ali Baghirzada He was clearing it up dip shit

Hey Joey. In order to improve the quality of this type of vid, could you please next time open the team builder to show us the stats of the mon you guys are talking about, by explaining its different sets, the moves it has access to as well as the stats it can reach if you invest some evs in it. Moreover, if you could also compair its stats with other mons in the UU tier or even with its counter parts in the OU tier, it would be so nice. Thanks for your awesome job guys! Big fan :)

[@TheRandomThings23]

Heracross' usage is about to bump hella hard.

[@lrba5524]

4x weak to fairy tho.

[@TheRandomThings23]

Luke Ryba 2x weak bro

[@zerovsgameing1201]

Luke Ryba you're thinking about its flying weakness

[@TheRandomThings23]

Well the only other flying mon in the tier I can think of is Mega aero who can easily be prepped for with the other potential 5 mons.

[@lrba5524]

hello? I thought you meant hydragon. how is Hera going to change?

[@KaosDarksol]

If they keep this up there may as well just not be a UU tier.

[@flygon103]

I find myself staring at the screen even though nothing is happening

[@adeliene442]

looks like Mence is in the greninja predicament

[@TheRandomThings23]

There is no way in hell regular Mence is going to Ubers.

[@manuelaguilartirado8674]

I think he means that Salamance is good at everything you want to use it for and it goes in every team

[@jackson5770]

I think he means Mence is broken in UU but sucks in OU, like how Greninja is broken in OU but sucks in Uber.

[@TheRandomThings23]

Manuel Aguilar Tirado Ah, that makes sense. Both mons could be slapped onto a team with very little consequence,

[@TheRandomThings23]

Heat Bringer I don't think mence will be garbage in OU tbh. It's as versatile as the latis with the coverage and offensive/defensive variations it gets.

[@kamer7687]

Love the video. I was upset when mence first dropped, but now I'll definitely miss it. First time I got a team to 90gxe in a tier.

[@SaintoftheHonest]

Did no-one else us HP Ice Bronzong? Resists Dragon and Steel, immune to Ground due to levitate and it had the special bulk to take Fire Blasts - unless it was Max SpA AND Life Orb, in which case you would opt to run Occa Berry. It also reliably sets up Rocks and can set up for other mons: be it dual screens, trick room, etc.

[@AuthorReborn]

I'm not certain just how much Doublade will rise, since two of the most prominent Rapid Spin users in the tier, Blastoise (mega and otherwise) and Donphan all have some form of dealing with Doublade, through Blastoise's Scald/Dark Pulse and Donphan's EQ and Knock Off, which allow both solid ways to deal with it. Forretress can't really deal with it, but it can at least Volt Switch out into something that can.

[@neored6411]

hey joey, have you thought about doing a video on the worst sets that got popular on showdown? like para, gyroball ferrothorn?

[@GoGodMedia]

Nice video Joey. Definitely like getting some high level insight. Tony is a gangsta too

[@keenmans]

Hey Joey, as much as these discussions are interesting, it's just the both of you agreeing on the same issue whilst giving your opinions on what will possibly become more viable in the future. One thing I would love to hear is that one of you guys would actually give some opposing views as to why the ban (or non-ban) is a bad thing, I would think this would give this a massive boost instead of hearing you and Tony agreeing on the same subject.

[@lucascouto4974]

what do you think about tauros staying in nu joey?

[@Midnight_Ruby]

I'm happy for that. At least a pokemon I love is staying

[@classifiedinformation8824]

Joey, I came up with a stallbreaker set for Snorlax in OU. I designed it for Clefable and Chansey mostly. You give Snorlax a Custap Berry with Gluttony and Belly Drum and Self-Destruct and it obliterates Chanseys and Clefables.

[@generalmaulage6474]

sounds fun

[@classifiedinformation8824]

+General Maulage It is.

[@legomasterliam]

They used that in Heatah Fajita.

[@classifiedinformation8824]

+frzW Wait, what?

They should make a BL ladder in which we would be able to use both mons from BL and UU. Otherwise, most of those BL won't see any plays in OU since they can't shine as well as their counter parts in OU, even though it's kind of sad that Salamence became a UU mon this gen whereas it was OU when it first released and was even top tier.

[@Caniscanemwurst]

what about ditto? with ditto in team you wouldnt have to worry about dragon dances cause you would use the boosts against your enemy. without to worry about that you can switch more comfortly into a mon that eats salamences hits.

[@geek593]

If someone sees Ditto on the opponent's team they're not going to risk setting up. Meanwhile you're sitting there in a 5v6.

[@ajbarsanti]

teal6's opinion on the salamence ban: i forgot to vote.

[@Blackguy610]

LOL

[@paulkoontz2493]

he would have voted ban anyway

[@bradmichaels5278]

You're thoughts on a Tauros analysis? You slog with many other youtubers have shown its viable in all tiers along with having limited switch ins in the tier it's currently in. I know you probably have fewer lower tier fans than OU. Thanks

[@MrXboxUser]

dang that sucks. I made a team with it a couple days ago and went like 24-3 with it. Mence was so good in that tier if you got it in correctly

[@kuandhannashino]

It can cook a meal with fire blast or cook a florges with iron tail

[@official_kden]

What does salamence have for a well played beartic? :]

[@AndreIsCooked]

boi hold this metal claw

[@dansbyhandsby]

+Andrew Tolsma Sash and Icicle Crash

[@cyrilmartin5613]

fire blast or iron tail kill beartic so whatever

[@ubyn3816]

+cyril martin bc outrage doesn't

[@cyrilmartin5613]

Yeah but when you can avoid to be locked...

[@stardustsilhouette2771]

Keep up the great work Joey! I appreciate you :]

[@pseudo4389]

Joey did you ever do an Enter Mega Mence vid?

[@thevengefulone3948]

Honestly I start to dislike UU more...

[@softpeaked9710]

Hey Aim, what's your current opinion regarding Mega Alt in OU? Thanks for all the great content :]

[@Blackguy610]

Wonder how long till Hydreigon gets suspected

[@jadineanderson8495]

I can't wait

[@mrbossdude5538]

Hydreigon is too easily countered to be banned

[@jadineanderson8495]

+Mr. Bass fuck u

[@unixexpert9295]

+Jadine Anderson in all seriousness p2 and bliss wall the fuck out of standard Hydreigon.

[@Zeta5]

Hydreigon is a way different story when compared to Salamence -Its speed tier is still really awkward and it gets checked really easily by faster pokemon. -Its typing and STAB gets countered by fairy type so ridiculously hard. Fairy type was the worst thing to happen to it. -Has a ton of moves to take on any pokemon but can't have them all at once, leaving openings to exploit. It still has niches over other dragons with the ability to use u-turn, good bulk, and extreme versatility in moves (it's an upside too!) but I don't see it leaving UU for now.

[@MagnusTB_]

Joey's chair game on point :]

[@Senor_Exotic]

Don't mind me,I'm just here for the background music

[@jaimesapoznikov7921]

the only thing is that salamence is usually ohko by most ice moves

[@Loris71734]

Offensive mons are all usually ohkod by weaknesses. 4x weakness isn't really a factor for offensive mons.

[@94gioval]

Not only for offensive mons. Heatran, ferrothorn, mega scizor, lando, among others all have 4x weakness and still are great defensive mons. It's not like you're staying in on a super effective move

[@jadineanderson8495]

tru salamence is going to get destroyed in ou. landorus is there, weavile is there, and it gets walled by a lot of things

[@Loris71734]

Giovane Caputo That's true.

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

And WHAT Pokemon with an Ice move, pray tell, is going to appreciate switching into a STAB boosted Draco Meteor or Dragon Claw and then what's supposed to keep your opponent from switching Mence out? As mentioned in the video, the only thing you can rely on for a switch-in is Porygon2. Not that that matters since Porygon2 is easier to counter/check.

[@ViniciusLuiggi]

looks like mance was uu zard dont wanna die to fire blast dont wanna give it a free dd

[@lisabtheplug5630]

How do u get these cool background pictures for showdown

[@anthonyhevia4792]

Hopefully this means that other things from lower tiers will rise up to uu

[@Sol_Calibre]

I don't even keep up with tiers anymore.

[@rimz32]

This is now confirmed. The person who drafted Salamence in the UCL now has four OU mons

[@predator3099]

Adrive....

[@Rodolphin]

Technically after season 2 of the UCL is over, Salamence will be OU but for now it's UU because they're not going to make Adrive take out salamence for another UU mon.

[@fatesoverwatch9479]

thank you salamence was broken it got so many moves and has a good ability.

[@SolarFlare]

I feel like we've skipped a ban discussion, friend *casual cough*

[@BugIncorporated]

2/3s vote is 66% which is only 16% over 50%. I don't know if it was right vite

[@christophercanadate2566]

I wonder what the next main DD user will be...Haxorus,Gyarados,Kingdra,maybe even Tyrantrum

[@dylanloew]

Tyrantrum would be awesome

[@plugwalk594]

Now they need to suspect test hydregion, tangrowth, meinshao, gastrodon and of course HOOPA-U

[@zerovsgameing1201]

Dude, hoopa-u is in Ubers

[@plugwalk594]

Zerovs Gameing i know i want him back in OU...

[@zerovsgameing1201]

Dude, specs hoopa-u 2HKO's chansey, but I'd love it to be back in ou too, like before. Because as far as I know it's Ubers trash right now

[@jokoninja124]

why does mienshao need to be suspect tested?

[@plugwalk594]

JokoNinjaman no reason... I just like it ;-)

[@WingedFish66]

If more bans involving Pokemon that too good for their tier but too bad for the next tier keeps growing like this I seriously hope they consider making proper tiers for these in-the-middle places. It's already happened in a sense with the creation of PU as the bottom of the barrel pile has kept growing, and it's inevitable that the BL lists are going to grow as well come Sun/Moon.

[@c_f0rce]

It's not inevitable. Because we never know what the Meta will be like. Things like torn were RU at one point and are now staple ou. Anything can happen. Just look at the crazy rise in Weavile and Mega Medicham usage. Anything can happen in Pokemon

[@TJskillz169]

or Amoonguss and Jellicent! RU to OU and OU to RU.

[@c_f0rce]

+TJskillz169 perfect example

[@Nightbird-67tm]

+Swagsuke Pichumura I'm definitely curious to see how Gen 7 meta will look like with so many crazy abilities being revealed.

[@Sloth7d]

Sigh, maybe we should accept that this game wasn't made to be played in a 6 v 6 singles format.

[@geek593]

Or maybe we should accept that metagames will always shift and need to ban things to stay healthy and competitive.

[@Chewbrocalli]

as someone who's been away for a while, why was salamence UU in the first place? i thought it was ubers or something?

[@kevinlyification]

it was ubers in dpp

[@chibiraptor]

Mega Salamence is ubers. So long as you don't use a mega-stone, it was UU.

[@MrPatrickbuit]

Wow why was it ever ubers though?

[@chibiraptor]

MrPatrickbuit High stats in both attack types, high speed, fairy didn't exist, self-recovery. It can do everything really well. Dragon in general was pretty overpowered until gen 6, which mean mence was the stupidest thing since sliced bread.

[@frankzheng273]

there goes one mega drill counter :) perfect

[@blazingzard1132]

Does pokeaim respond to comments?

[@pokeaimMD]

never man :[

[@ActualOzma]

Yeah, sadly he doesn't.

[@aearktik6014]

+Clorox Bleach how many Clorox bleache's r there?

[@c_f0rce]

Blunder does lol

[@elifenton4726]

+pokeaimMD bro, what was that sand team you used with stoutland....I've been dying to use that team just can't find the video for the pastebin.

[@nermalmal12]

there goes my defensive wall, great

[@patricktressler8843]

When will TonyFlygon come back to KZbin?

[@7thGenBattleSpot]

Cresselia is a hard counter to every mence set as well.

[@mutantpolarbear4626]

Oh look, one of the few viable entei checks for offense is gone. Can we please suspect entei already? We all know sacred fire is literally the most mindless move ever and it basically forces you to run a bulky water or you're screwed...

[@Nightbird-67tm]

I agree with this, it's like I always have insert a Water type on a team just cause of Entei. It's either Suicune or Milotic.

[@bireland2012]

I guess Mence will be stuck in bl for the last few months of oras, oh well it will get another chance in gen 7. To think that Salamence used to be ubers at one point, how times have changed.

[@c_f0rce]

Yeah and Genesect was ou. Sooo yeah.

[@TJskillz169]

more food for thought in 5th gen, Jellicent was OU and Amoonguss was RU. That has swapped this gen.

[@Nightbird-67tm]

+TJskillz169 I still think Jellicent should come to UU, it pretty much blocks Entei and its E-Speed shenanigans.

[@TJskillz169]

Sebastian Martinez imean, it was great because of its partners though, ferrothorn and him were unbeatable. but when dark got buffed to neutral on steel, it's stock plummeted. But who knows, i never really play RU or see it in UU

[@alexandrosstavrou4224]

+Orga777 Gen 7 better give regular mence a solid flying stab

[@nicklagoon]

Joey that squeaky chair though

[@bruv6036]

i always think it's his door

[@chocolatebunny8667]

R.I.P. Salemence. It won't find any use in OU and noes its banned from UU.

[@nehemiahstevenson3521]

Luc+sal core was amazing

[@soulofalbedo]

Saly was certainly too strong but I don't really like less answers for Conk. I hate fighting that mon.

[@jakeyflakes00]

Just fucking suspect and everything at this point. Now we won't see hardly any usage of Sally. I love Smogon, but I Hate that.

[@oneandonly8160]

atm it's just UU that want to suspect a lot of broken things now so they can have a perfect meta going into Sun/Moon at least in the UU council's minds

[@madolceportello7897]

Personally, I always thought the Defog sets were outright bad. Everything else was absolutely godly, though.

[@dannydalcantar9889]

sigh haxourus or gyrados gonna need to pick up one in my hyper offense team

[@aaroncruz1175]

Whats the point of banning pokemon?....thats stupid to me I feel like its a challenge to have powerful pokemon like Salamence or Alakazam and trying to beat them but then I havent played in yrs so idk too much anymore

[@deanmcbride7465]

going to miss choice scarf Salamance sweeping

[@Rewind888]

Jamvad shouldve been banned years ago

[@eifo2878]

So basically what the community does right now, is ban the stuff pif uses for his stall, right joey?

[@julianlanier571]

hopefully something from sun and moon will take its place

[@MrSoler]

RIP Salamence :[ Gonna spam CC Banded Mons + Pursuit Mega Aero in the ladder

[@kip00shoe]

I think mence getting banned is great I mean its so hard to deal with in uu but I feel like it wont do the best in ou and great video joey

[@jadineanderson8495]

how?

[@chocolatebunny8667]

+Jadine Anderson Because Charizard X is a better Dragon Dancer. Latios is a better Defogger. Dragonite is bulkier and Garchomp Tanks better. Salamence is useless now.

[@c_f0rce]

+Pokeaim #1 Fan exactly. If it was good in OU people would have been using it lol

[@kip00shoe]

+Pokeaim #1 Fan I couldn't have said it better myself

[@hi-qw5vp]

+Pokeaim #1 Fan Preach

[@xoxShadoww]

Sad to see my mascot go from UU to BL

[@jokoninja124]

ikr. giratina was GREAT in uu. :3

[@xoxShadoww]

+JokoNinjaman my mascot is Salamence not Giratina, Giratina is my favorite legendary

[@Psycho3418]

GG Salamence. Better luck in Gen 7 UU.

[@melancholy9806]

Oh well Hydreigon time to take Ignis' place... I'm going to miss Salamence DX

[@melancholy9806]

+Emboarium Wouldn't Tyrantrum be better off as Reptar

[@XFallen05]

I. Sorry I took a break on competitive Pokemon but when did Klefki go back to ou?

[@unixexpert9295]

I thought it was bl?

[@CKing97]

It was promoted to OU a while back because stall increased

[@XFallen05]

+CK TV don't you mean demoted xD cause it use to be ubers but now it's ou

[@Quiizzey]

+pokeblade121 maybe that was before swagger ban?

[@thornbushification]

+pokeblade121 klefki was never ubers, it just sees a ton of usage up there cause of its typing

[@riteshhasija]

Salamence got banned while mega aero's still lurking around. What are ya doin smoggers!!!!

[@riteshhasija]

+Orga777 yeah but you need certain mons in your team to check mega aero which limits creativity in team building. Mence can easily be revenge killed but mega aero will always get you momentum coz nothing that outspeeds or out prioritizes it can OHKO it barring fast scarfers. Meta would not benefit much from this ban imo

[@DRandR1productionz]

wish tony made videos regularly

[@connor5890]

part of me wishes salamence was viable in OU

[@jadineanderson8495]

+Connor Hulla (Cuberandgamer) it would be if it got galewings bravebird

[@jadineanderson8495]

+Connor Hulla (Cuberandgamer) it would be if it got galewings bravebird

[@seismichorse6488]

Do you guys think Mence will start making appearances and be a threat in OU or will it just drop to BL and never be used again?

[@thekingbradable]

It's in BL and will stay there. Its viability in OU hasn't changed. It's still not very good

[@seismichorse6488]

I agree with you, although i believe a mixed attacking shouldnt be underestimated, although mixed chomp does its job slightly better, however i like it's ability to hit fairies with iron tail doing about 80 to cm clef and the intimidate ability isnt to be toyed with especially because at -1 def lando's stone edge does the same to mence as regular def lando's eq to chomp but there is a chance for them to miss and Salamence's ability to roost. I feel like there can be some messing around done with a mixed set to make it viable but overall i agree and dont think it will make a big impact on the meta :]

[@lrba5524]

+IQGamer you are thinking of ou like uu. in uu you get mons that can do 2 things at once to cover weaknesses in your team. in ou you use mons that do what they do best. ie clef ferro, heat, chomp, t flame, Scizor (etc). mence is outclassed by the latis and chomp. (not so much dnite because dnite is ruined without rock control)

[@seismichorse6488]

Luke Ryba yes unfortunately Salamence is out-classed in OU by the other Dragons mainly due to their superior speed. The only upside of using mence could be the supprise factor, but realistically thats nothing more than a gimmick so i wont really count it as a huge benefit. The only real benefit mence has over latis is that it is able to take phys hits decently well thanks to intimidate and a slight ev investment in def so it can take on the likes of mega sciz better. and its advantage over chomp is that it gets recovery which garchomp doesnt. but these are small things and as i said earlier I agree with you and think that salamence is out-classed by the other ou dragons (bar dnite) :]

[@oneandonly8160]

+IQGamer I feel like MixMence does have a niche in OU with the right support

[@lucasr2971]

Tony is dutch right? I think I can hear that

[@MrPatrickbuit]

Don't think so. Unless he hides his accent very well. (I'm dutch myself and it's usually easy to notice.)

[@naturalhistoryx1992]

Lol, great video but the chair is beginning to get distracting. WD40 is like 2 bucks a can.

[@BobDFish]

All I see is Celebi.... Celebis everywhere. Sriously though, that mon is busted in its current state. If a move is made to ban Baton Pass, then it may be fine, but right now its a nightmare and a half.

[@oneandonly8160]

Celebi is quite easily checked dude Hydreigon and Heracross 2 mons that will now rise in usage destroy Celebi another Pokemon that is rising in usage in the form of Tornadus-I kills Celebi unless it has a CM boost also don't forget the ever present Entei that destroys Celebi

[@BobDFish]

what can they do when it just baton passes out after nabbing a WP boost?

[@masoom471]

welp mence is stuck in the shadow realm aka BL

[@sloesty]

new game gets released in like a month and they still ballance the metagame xD

[@gillman037]

why was salamence in uu in the first place? it's too overpowered. he's a monster.

[@Spectator62]

Finally my infernape can do work

[@Rodolphin]

I see mix mence and tank mence will appear more in OU due to pokemon likw Lando-T and Ferrothorn

[@Rodolphin]

Like*

[@rappidman6686]

Nope, mence is prolly not seeing more use in ou as it is not good enough. The fact that it is banned in uu doesent make it more viable in ou.

[@Midnight_Ruby]

I hope it goes back to UU. I'm going to miss it :(

[@bigjohnadams18]

Watch Hydreigon or Mega Aero are banned next.

[@HPPrintervx4p5q]

"Pool of banners" lol

[@RubenLopezL]

Why not ban every pokemon?

[@kangaroodude34]

I hate that my favorite mon now gets to rot in BL :[ I don't disagree with the ban tho

[@lucamocan8721]

Why not just make salamence BL OU?

[@cyrilmartin5613]

It doesn't have enough usage in OU to be a OU mon. So it's BL

[@julianjacobs9770]

Flygon is my favorite pokemon, I like the other dude already xD

[@tonychopper4207]

So can we make it work in OU?

[@melancholy9806]

It's possible I'm messing around with it now...

[@malickwilliamson3802]

Specs with hydro pump and fire blast for those landos and skarms

[@melancholy9806]

Malick Williamson Volcanion handles that with litttle or no effort.. I made my Mence Physically Defensive

[@soulofalbedo]

Well, nothing has changed in OU so if it didn't work very well before the ban why would it work now?

[@melancholy9806]

Max Klein Someone is going to find a way to make it work

[@TheGrandE.]

but "Wish" mance :( she needs more love also that squeaky chair hurt my ears -.-

[@freeze_electric]

Twitter notification squad

[@emmastone6838]

never did rachi in dou D:

[@LordSpinduh]

yoo I love the collesseum theme

[@LucaTheGod]

LEAVE SALAMANCE ALONE! He's been moved from ou to uu so many times.

[@Vitheeshan]

nooooooo why salamence it was one of my best mons in uu!!!

[@terrencedinnall1151]

so why is cress not ou?

[@PvtVallen]

Usage.

[@c_f0rce]

+Minitell if it was just based on usage Quag and Amoonguss wouldn't be ou. It's usage and viability.

[@kevinchen7555]

Purley usage wise, Quag and Amoonguss actually are OU due to their prevalence on stall teams

[@c_f0rce]

+Kevin Chen No they weren't though. As stall teams aren't as common as people make them out I be. The reason they were so low is because of usage. Look at smog on usage stats. It clearly proves your wrong.

[@born2cube516]

+Swagsuke Pichumura It is based purely on usage. Both Amoonguss and Quag had more than 3.4% usage in OU in May. Thats why they rose from RU and NU all the way to OU.

[@MaahirMomtaz12]

For those bitching about Salamence leaving, you still got Hydreigon

[@nermalmal12]

hydreigon isnt a defensive defogger, whats your point?

[@MaahirMomtaz12]

Nick C There are other Pokémon who can Defog. You don't have to use a Dragon type to use Defog

[@chocolatebunny8667]

Hydreigon can't defog. Doesn't have Moxie. Can't tank without Intimidate. Doesn't have dragon dance. And is way easier to wall and counter. With Scarf Meinshao OHKOing it. Conk and Inferape with Mach punch. And Sylveon able to switch and to Draco Meteor, Earth Power and Dark Pulse. And fire off a spec Hyper Voice. Hydreigon doesn't compare to Salamence.

[@jokoninja124]

where in your mind did you hydreigon was as good as salamence? WHERE?

[@nermalmal12]

Pokeaim #1 Fan thank you, this was my point but this guy clearly doesnt understand the big picture

[@makaibrown1766]

why tf was salemence even uu

[@sirskaro3581]

One less flying type in UU

[@semiaquatic6915]

Ok. Fine, its baned, but i dont agree. One reason, If your banning mence, ban lando-t! They do the exact same thing! Scarf, dance, rocky helmet, LO, and although mence has roost and defog, lando has SR, knock off, T-wave immunity, and U-turn. Also, although im not the most experienced battler ever, i make pretty nice teams, and over half of my teams fear Haxorus MUCH more than mence. SD, DD, mold breaker EQ, poison jab, outrage, dragon claw, and even flippin taunt. Yes, mence is nice, but it aint OP.

[@lrba5524]

mence is op in uu. it was used in a huge portion of teams and ruins teams with really good move coverage. lando is way more easy to deal with because in ou it dies to tons of revenge killers such as weavile, latios (ibeam), I punch users, (etc) I think blonder said it best. "Clef makes you win. Lando makes you not lose."

[@c_f0rce]

Lando t is very good. No op. It's used a lot. But so is garchomp, scizor, heatran, so is clefable. It does a few things very well but it can't do everything. It's easy to check and counter. Limited sets. If you struggle beating lando you maybe just need to work on your team building methods.

[@TheDemiGodDusk]

The thing with lando-t is that by itself it's just a great mon, but when it's paired with its fuck buddy latios they make one of the best cores in the game hands down. So I would say ban latios because the two of them does over centralize the meta game.

[@oneandonly8160]

The ban Lando-T movement with the Mence UU ban is completely flawed down to one reason UU and OU are completely different metagames and a ban in UU means nothing to OU