Polar Alignment Using The Hand Controller Method - Polaris is not needed for this method!

[@stephencox3446]

Hi Kurt, as a newcomer this video gives me another option to set polar alignment. Thanks for sharing your experiences as it very much appreciated.

[@AstroQuest1]

You're very welcome Stephen. Cheers

[@KJRitch]

12:48 I’ve been watching all the KZbin videos I can find about how to use hand controllers to polar align. After they show the procedure they never test it. When you finally slew to an object is it centered? I recently purchased a Celestron C8 with an AVX mount and have been trying the Celestron alignment procedure including the polar alignment that follows. When I finish and select a GOTO object such as Andromeda it’s not in the eyepiece field of view. It’s showing off center in my finder (9x50). My finder is always a little out of adjustment when I first start since I have to take apart the telescope to store inside. I usually sync the finder with the eyepiece on the first alignment star. But even after that star the finder is still not quite in sync with the eyepiece. Celestron allows up to 4 calibration stars after the first two stars. Then you move to the polar alignment procedure. Maybe I need more practice. Saturn is up in the early evening and after two attempts at a two star align, 4 calibration stars and the final polar align on a completely different star when I choose Saturn it’s not in the field of view. I’ve double checked time, latitude longitude time zone, DST. Frustrating

[@AstroQuest1]

Hey Ritch, Yeah it can be frustrating. The C8 and other long Focal Length scopes with the small FOV are tough as everything has to be more precise. After you polar align you still have to do a final "normal" star alignment. Cheers Kurt

[@robertbrowning4888]

Good video Kurt. I use this method, or at least it is similar to this, because I have no view of Polaris at my house. I have Celestron mounts and I believe the hand controller does both Alt-Az adjusts at the same time and not one at a time, but I could be wrong. I haven't used the hand controller in ages. Since I have Celestron I use the CPWI software which requires a 5-star alignment in order to use ASPA (all star polar alignment) feature, which does the same as what you show essentially. It asks you to go to a star and align. Then the mount moves off the star by how much the mount is off polar, and you adjust both Alt-Az knobs in conjunction to get centered. I find it is pretty accurate compared to what I get with Sharpcap (when I can see Polaris). Cheers -Robert

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks Robert, I did not know there was an ASPA software. I don't use this too often but when I do I get really good alignment. It is good know there are options if Polaris is not available. I am glad you mention that you use it or something similar because hardly anyone else does. - Cheers Kurt

[@davidaylsworth8964]

Good work. With the Celestron ASPA you have to adjust both Az and Alt during the same iteration and then you need to do a two star alignment again. On my CGEM-DX mount I’ll adjust both Az & Alt for the first iteration, then I’ll adjust the one with the greatest conical error on the second and third iterations. Using this method I’ve found that my polar alignment error is typically under 2 arcminutes. With my permanent observatory setup I’ll do a PA setup once a month and I haven’t had to make any adjustments in a couple of months now. I do like the method of adjust one axis then adjust the other. I think this is a better approach overall. Thanks Kurt!

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks for the additional info David. I was wondering about the ASPA. - Cheers Kurt

[@jonrobinson1026]

Great tutorial. Thanks for the time taken and can't wait to try it when my gear arrives from China. Slow boat from 🙄 .

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks Jon, Good luck with it!

[@SquidwardTentacles-]

As a person who lives in bottle 8-9, thank you :3

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks. Good luck in those Bortle 8-9 skies.

[@AstroQuest1]

@Lucas Gossart Hey Lucas, I do not use this method regularly since I have a permanent mount setup or I shoot at my other location where Polaris is visible. If the camera or sky conditions make it difficult to see the stars, do it using an eyepiece, it is much easier because you have a wider field (that is how I do it when I use this method). - Good Luck

[@AstroQuest1]

@Lucas Gossart Good Luck

[@southernexposure123]

@Lucas Gossart I have a similar problem finding / even seeing stars in my Canon live view, especially using a long focal length lens / telescope (f5 - f6 etc). I have olden eyes so I need all the help I can get. Maybe the first thing I should say is that before even putting my camera on the EQ mount I put the camera on a normal photograph tripod and hunt the brightest star I can find to get me started seeing in the live view screen. A good place to start is to try to get polaris to show up in my live view screen when I do my polar alignment. It could be that I'm cheating, but this helps so this is what I do. I use an actual camera lens at the very start of hunting my targets. I put a short focal length lens on the camera with as wide of a f ratio as I have. I use an f2 or bigger aperture lens if I have it Then I set the shutter speed long (5 seconds or longer) and turn the ISO up higher than normal for taking subs to12,800 or maybe higher. There's potential problem with my method. If I turn the shutter speed too long there's an annoying delay for targets to show up after I move the camera trying to center the star better and get better focus. Also, I've noticed that sometimes if I set the ISO too high I get as much noise on my live view screen as I have stars. When I find a target in that short lens I adjust things to center the target as good as I can in the live view screen, and then focus ithe target as good as I can. Every time I move the camera position and every time I go to a longer focal length I refocus using the camera's 5X and 10X magnification. Stars very far out of focus are sometimes impossible to see in my live view screen even if I know that star is centered there. While making those shutter speed and star centering changes I experiment with shortening the shutter speed because at times faster shutter speeds allow me to make quicker progress because the delay between moving the camera to center up targets gets shorter and my targets show up quicker in the live view screen after I move the camera. After that's done I carefully exchange the lens ( gently so I don't move the mount) and put on a longer a focal length lens until I ultimately get the lens mounted that I intend to use during the sub taking session. You might develop a modicication of that procedure that will finally get you where you can see targets through your telescope in the live view screen. It's a long way around and is tedious, but it helps me get targets focused and centered. Each time I change focal length I refocus with the 5X and then with the 10X camera magnification. Many times the result of starting out that way "still" is not exactly "easy" to see targets on the live view screen, but they show up a lot better when they're focused as good as I can get them. There's another thing I've noticed since I started using that process. I have a mirrorless camera (micro 4/3) and it's live view shows stars "much" easier and "much" brighter than my mirrored cameras. Clear and dark skies to you.

[@sebastianpainsi53]

Thank you AstroQuest1. Really helpful tutorial. Gonna try this tonight :)

[@AstroQuest1]

- Good luck! - Cheers

[@philleng480]

Excellent video Kurt, thanks. I have a regular rig at home all bells and whistles, but I am taking off to South Africa on holiday and want to do some imaging. Thus I have to take a portable rig (AZGti - no polarscope but SWSynscan) and won't have polaris to align. This might might just save me going down the heavier, more complex ASiAir route for PA (also more £££ in a location not known for its security!). Cheers.

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks Phil. Good luck with it. Don't know if you are bringing a laptop and use NINA, but NINA has a new PA routine as well. - Cheers Kurt

[@philleng480]

@@AstroQuest1 the laptop is what I don't want to take, heavy, bulky, and South Africa is crime central so that will be staying at home. Thus the exploration of mobile device solutions. I don't think my phone would like a windows 10 emulator to run APT.

[@enqueir]

Great Kurt! Many thanks for sharing !!!

[@AstroQuest1]

Many thanks Enrico! - Cheers

[@JoesAstrophoto]

Very informative Kurt! I like how you said if Dylan does it, it must be good. I say the same thing about you when doing things with astrophotography lol

[@AstroQuest1]

Ha Ha - Thanks for the praise Joe, but I am just stumbling through. You are becoming quit an 'Oracle of knowledge' yourself. - Cheers

[@keivanhamidi]

My man just saved me. Thann you so much, well done

[@AstroQuest1]

You're very welcome Keivan! - Good Luck!

[@taurus7228]

Thank you 🙏

[@AstroQuest1]

You’re welcome 😊

[@oq17]

Can you please comment on the initial mount setup . Does the mount need to be leveled and pointing north ? If so ? How accurately and how do you get it setup pointing north and the latitude set Thank you

[@AstroQuest1]

The mount should be leveled and the mount should be pointed north to as best as you can with a compass or iPhone and latitude should also be set. It is ok if they are not perfect because alignment will make it 'perfect'. Basically, the better you have it before the alignment, the easier it is to get the optimal alignment with the hand controller. Cheers

[@oq17]

@@AstroQuest1 got it ! Thank you so much .

[@randallpatrickc]

Very good. I tried this but don’t think my tripod was level. I’ll redo 😊

[@AstroQuest1]

Good luck with it!

[@andysPARK]

Thanks buddy

[@AstroQuest1]

Happy to help! Cheers

[@piotr4415]

Awsome, thank you!

[@AstroQuest1]

You bet Piotr! - Cheers Kurt

[@janelubenskyi1177]

Having problems with the Nina 3 Point Polar align…according to Guiding Assistant in PHD2 to test accuracy I am way off of Polaris….is your method accurate enough for guiding with PHD2?

[@AstroQuest1]

Yes this should be quite accurate. Wonder why the NINA 3-point is not working? Might want to post it to their FB page or the Discord. Good Luck

[@douglasfleming1]

Very useful! Thx

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks Douglas, it does have its uses. - Cheers Kurt

[@astronomynotebook]

Thank you….how come no one had previously come up with this before?

[@AstroQuest1]

For some reason they just don't publicize it. Probably because you can get pretty close with the Polar Scope and Sharpcap and Polemaster do it well as long as polaris is visible. - Cheers

[@scottrk4930]

Hi Kurt , In your Video you didn't mention what the Polar Alignment Error , PAE , was after you did the Alignment ? What kind of number would you be looking for and likely to accept ? /SRK

[@andamd1983]

Good questions

[@AstroQuest1]

Yeah, it is always something that I forget when I do these videos, but to answer your question you can expect to get 1-arcminute (or better) which is where I call it good.

[@captaincook6666]

Any advice on location of PA star? I read it's best to be near the pole. I tried last night on my azgti and got 2 min unguided at 200mm whereas I've only had 40s when chosing a star further away.

[@AstroQuest1]

Interesting. If you are doing a normal PA then yes you want to be on Polaris. If you are doing the hand controller method it should not matter but the two stars should be 60 degrees away from each other. Cheers

[@GrundleStiltSkin]

ASPA is only as good as your goto's, a suggestion is to not unlock clutches between alignments completions. Usually after a polar alignment routine , a new alignment is needed. SLEW the telescope back to the index marks, and do not use clutches.

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks for the info!

[@Mistr_A]

Thanks Kurt just one question does the mount have to be tracking ?

[@AstroQuest1]

Not sure, I believe it does as it was already set to be tracking in my case.

[@deeber35]

Can polar alignment and tracking be done on a laptop if I have no handheld?

[@AstroQuest1]

Sure can if you have a cable to connect to the computer. Sharpcap is a good program that can do it. Also NINA can do it. Cheers

[@fadofado56]

i am very confused i do my latitude and longitude correctly everything else correctly but once i want to do the 3 start alignment i select a star (vega) and it just points at the floor or in the completely wrong direction and i don't know what's wrong

[@AstroQuest1]

That really sounds like the starting point is not right, Are you absolutely sure the lat and long are correct, including the signs. For example, my coordinates are 73 05' 56" W, 41 23' 04 N. A simple E-W or N-S mixup will do that. When I use my ZWO AM3 in the field, on more than one occasion, It had the starting values correct except somehow the signs were reversed: +73 05' 56", +41 23' 04; it should have been -73 05' 56", +41 23' 04. Does the hand controller normally work?

[@Monstermaiik]

Guy´s with older firmware, maybe need to uptade the controller. So far i remember, it wasn´t there in 2012. I guess it came (back) with firmware 3.35. With this function, i did a polar aligment, out of my room, trough the window, without any view to North. It was possible to guide, and i belief if you do it propper, it will be good enough to do some exposure. Maybe to test you equipment ore else. Cheers Freddy Oh i forgot to mention, when you do the star aligment first, to unlock the polar aligment, just move to the two stars, don´t move the mount by the hand controller and just press enter, and then start the polar aligment. I create a list with all possible stars the SyncScan will give you. Just check witch one is visible for you. Basicly you don´t even need a Star aligment, if you start from your home position, with correct date, time and position and leveled mount, It should be enough at least for a rough polar alignment, or even better.

[@AstroQuest1]

Cool, thanks for the info! Skipping the star alignment would speed things up.

[@paulmckay8054]

@@AstroQuest1 The question from Scott Kuchma is very important and I was amazed you did not give the initial polar alignment error and then again after the 2nd star alignment to show the improvement. Then viewers could have made their own judgement on its worth. I have an HEQ5 with handset with version 04.39.04 firmware and this method is described in section 11.3 of the manual and have used it many times using just a reticule eyepiece. However, the manual says to use intermediate values of PA error to decide whether to continue. This is false, because the handset computes new PA errors ONLY after 2 or 3 star alignment. Overall though your video is accurate and will encourage owners to exploit this useful feature of the handset without using cameras and laptops.

[@AstroQuest1]

@@paulmckay8054 Thanks for the info Paul. I spaced it out with regard to the initial value. Whenever I do these videos where I am live in the dark trying to show what is going on inevitably I miss something. - Cheers Kurt