John Ralston Saul - The end of globalism: citizenship vs. populism

[@ddicin7759]

Saul's not saying there should be high levels of immigration, only that immigration policies should be effective in converting arrivals into fully integrated citizens as quickly as possible so that they feel a sense of belonging in their new country. He explicitly stated in the lecture that if a country decides to reduce the numbers of immigrants then that's their right to do so. Immigration levels should be drastically in most western countries. We don't want to feel like a stranger in our own countries, don't want the familiar and comfortable to always be swept away in an effort to adapt to the new arrivals. Don't care if that's perceived as an atavistic attitude by high brow set; it's deeply felt by me and many others.

[@klubsvetnikov8290]

Great contribution by a great thinker. Not enough emphasis on cause and consequence. Migration today, millions of refugees is not a positive social phenomenon! It causes should be identified, and they are, and the emphasis should be on people having a chance to stay where they were born and have a chance of developing full potential of their deveplopment there.

[@Brianbeesandbikes]

Agreed and that'd mean western nations making colonial reparations and reversing climate catastrophe... in the meantime.. establish policy that makes of immigrants model engaged citizens

[@ronaldjanert7456]

Well, I guess that depends on what the purpose of his lecture was. It seems to me his goal was to expound on what it means to be a citizen, and how public engagement and comprehension have declined in modern society. Cause, consequence, and migration seem to me like a topic for another lecture for which there was no time here because it would have made this lecture 3+ hours long.

[@klubsvetnikov8290]

@@ronaldjanert7456 Interesting, you found the 3 years old comment. You might be right. Good thinking, anyway. And I have really enjoyed Saul's Bastards.

[@ronaldjanert7456]

Klub Svetnikov LOL. Yeah, it took me that long to find this video. After listening to him, I ordered Voltaire’s Bastards myself. Looking forward to it. ;)

[@johnstewart7025]

None of the top business school execs have read Adam Smith! And those schools have not changed anything they taught in the 40 years before 2008.

[@vladanlausevic7971]

Yes, one can be EU-citizen and critical about bureaucracy in same was as being a local citizen and critical about bureaucracy

[@vladanlausevic7971]

As a country becomes richer or poorer with larger or smaller numbers of PhD individuals per see? The thing is that in EU there is an "overproduction" of well educated individuals.

[@LiamPorterFilms]

I wish Saul would make it clear how he squares his critique of technocratic rule with his support of the EU.

[@davidwright8432]

He does. It has to do with layers of organization within a society, and the functions of different layers - and their interplay. some, but not all, technocrats see this. On the UK side, practically nobody does.

[@LiamPorterFilms]

It’d be interesting to hear Saul and Roger Scruton talk about de Gaulle and the sixties.

[@vladanlausevic7971]

True that even free markets as regulated. Because there is no 100% free market, not even in Hong Kong and Singapore. But there are less regulated than very regulated markets

[@mikesoussan]

Greek Solon was not the first ruler to systematically forgive debts ... Sumerian kings, thousands of years prior, did the same and they did it every 49 years ... what come to be know as Jubilee ...

[@talisikid1618]

Spot on about “stakeholder” bs as well.

[@vladanlausevic7971]

But Westfalian idea was not an idea of nation-state, it was an idea of territorial and sovereign state

[@talisikid1618]

Spot on about efficiency.

[@vladanlausevic7971]

I can agree on celeberations, but they can also be done locally as well.

[@talisikid1618]

Nailed the manager is not a leader part too.

[@vladanlausevic7971]

I think that a better solution would be that everybody has a global citizenship and freedom of movement as long as one can respect natural human rights to liberty, property and life.

[@stevem815]

My god, I'm sure there's a point there somewhere.... 20 minutes in and I'm still not sure where though. I think that's about as much time as is reasonable to listen to a lecture before you should have a pretty good idea of the basic thesis.

[@vladanlausevic7971]

One problem with referendums in large numbers is that people in general become very pressured to choose sides, as if everything was an existential crisis. They are to complex processes.

[@BELA_NUS]

he is one of kinney man?

[@vladanlausevic7971]

I do not understand Saul. There are different and similar integration policies in across the EU. But saying that there is not functioning policy is simply not truth.

[@vladanlausevic7971]

Basically "looser of globalization" are in many cases low-educated and low income earners but in many cases richer individuals with authoritarian values

[@vladanlausevic7971]

de Gaulle was quite much against UK joining the EEC because of UK being a more liberalized and free market while de Gaulle was in favor of state-capitalism and government control.

[@vladanlausevic7971]

Commission is elected by those who are democratically elected - PM:s

[@onceamusician5408]

the thing about Ralston Saul's book "Voltaire's B*stards" which i read about 20 years ago, is that he falls in love with an idea and pushes it too far this diminishes his credibility, IMO alas i cannot remember enough to demonstrate this point but this is my opinion even if no one else's

[@Dan-zz4jb]

I think it's relatively clear from this lecture too, but the initial idea is interesting to consider

[@williamtrakas3142]

Curious to hear your opinion on which ideas he presented that are incorrect or at the very least unworthy of exploration? Not disagreeing, just curious.

[@vladanlausevic7971]

I wonder what Saul thinks about Quebec. Is for Canadian federation "undermining" Qubecian citizenship ?

[@vladanlausevic7971]

But which "people". Both Brexit and Trump are right-wing collecitivsts processes. A median Trump voter is not a poor person but earns around 70k USD per year. It is often about individuals with steady income, job and education but who are collectivist and authoritarian.

[@vladanlausevic7971]

Most people during the Westfalian time were born, living and died in the same local area

[@vladanlausevic7971]

Niether citizenship nor democracy should be presented in statecentric terms. Because, today one can act as EU-citizen and as global citizen regarding activism and demoracy on supra-national and global levels

[@vladanlausevic7971]

Yes citizens are the source, but it is not that we have to have our citizenship limited to a state

[@vladanlausevic7971]

But which "lack of leadership". Government should be limited and people can solve more problems with interactions and civil society

[@reazonuk2362]

Vladan I've been browsing your comments. Its nice to finally hear somebody, at long last who has reached pretty much the same conclusions/sees the world in a similar way . 👏

[@vladanlausevic1733]

@@reazonuk2362 Thanks mate :)

[@vladanlausevic7971]

"Undermining British citizenship". How? As citizenship is excluding global trade and European integration

[@vladanlausevic7971]

Yes, he wrote that in 2005 with quite wrong conclusions and arguments

[@vladanlausevic7971]

"We have a housing crisis". Well, solve the housing market situation regardless of immigration

[@vladanlausevic7971]

But banks were "saved" by government and central banks. It was public failure in the first place , not a market failure

[@vladanlausevic7971]

The thing with "Brexit and Trump" is that they are less of populist reactions and more of right-wing collectivist developments which are anti-freedom, human rights and the individual

[@vladanlausevic7971]

There is not good or positive nationalism as when it comes to Europe. Reducing nationalism was important specially for European integration both in econmic and political sense, as well as for promoting globalization and global governance

[@SexDrugsFinance]

Hmmmm ... Indoubitably! Orange Man, indeed, bad!

[@vladanlausevic7971]

Globalization was never against citizenship. In fact, globalism went hand in hand with cosmopolitan ideas of people becoming more globally minded as citizens

[@smithinator5687]

Says the bald man 11:00

[@Blackdragon1331]

What if the people dont want any more immigration?

[@grb1969]

Immigration is proportional to disenfranchisement (labor alienation and exploitation) and migration is proportional to economic dislocation (warfare on the people and their Commons). Moral corruption drives populations from areas of gross economic inequity towards labor markets where hope is possible. To reduce the magnitude of population transfers from economically inequitable and socially unequal nations, we would have to construct a global economy that didn't reward the host/parasite dynamic that plagues colonial empires as the civilization collapses. Easier said than done.

[@bluehand9631]

If this academic spent more time living within the populations instead of reading books and traveling around the world giving talks and advice, he might well learn how far off his opinion of citizenship is as defined by himself. His reliance on statistics is part of his problem. I also found many contradictions in his thinking. Forgive mortgage debt? How is that ethical? Some benefit, others not. And that will increase spending, or more likely more borrowing? Immigrants are good for the economies because they start corporations? Without putting someone else out of work? More capitalism. And where is the environmental factor in all of this. There are many on the mark criticisms in the comments here that I'm sure would annoy this speaker as much as his obvious annoyance of some of his questioners. But the proof is in the pudding. What change for the betterment of mankind has he created? What one of his "policies" were ever implemented and resulted in a major improvement in peoples lives? Or is he just to modest to mention that? Well this waste of time will undoubtedly impress those of his ilk.

[@Brianbeesandbikes]

He's describing Canada's history, which is unique due to it's 500 year long departure from all other (Westfalian) monolithic nationalism. Get to know his lectures and books, and why EU cutting edge thinkers are eager to work with him on the growing issues of migration. Engaged citizens vs alienated consumer units. Innate mutual respect vs accepted/rejected humans.