Polish folk song "Oj chmielu" ("Oh, Hop")

[@fotticelli]

This was a wedding reception folk song from 11th century. It's the oldest Polish folk song documented with a musical score much later I assume. It's still sung at weddings in certain parts of Poland.

[@Msciwoj-j4x]

Doesn't matter about music. Folk songs are passed down by generations , so the lyrics and way it is sung could very well be accurate. Also it is older than 10th century*

[@FerenczAttila]

In which written medieval source can we find this song? Variants of the song had been recorded by folklorists from Hungary, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic. In Hungary it was also sung at weddings, usually at the part when the bride and the bridesman performed the candle dance at midnight. The variants include songs mostly with 2/4, 3/4 or 3/8 meters which often followed each other, in an order which increased the tempo. In Hungary our folklorists suggested that it reflects the system of musical proportions - which we can hear even in this video- of the late medieval and renaissance era, the kind of candle dances which were performed became popular only in the 17th-18th century in this part of Europe, so they dated the song to a later time than the 10th or 11th century, and assumed it developed under Western-European musical influences. So I'm really interested to learn more about the history and origins of this song, i find it fascinating.

[@corpseinthesky6111]

@@FerenczAttila folk songs weren’t recorded until early modern times in Poland, but there’s multiple reasons why folklorists believe this song to be very old: this song has many variations and has been sung during Oszczepiny (an old slavic wedding tradition) on all of ethnically Polish lands up until ~20th century (it stopped being sung once weddings started focusing on happier celebrations - traditionally oszczepiny were a sad time for the bride as she was wed against her will, which you can also hear in this song). The folklorist who made this observation is called Oskar Kolberg, who in 19th c. was travelling across all of Polish lands and noting down all traditional songs he heard. Later folklorists like Zygmunt Gloger confirmed this. The reason to believe this song dates 10th c is because it’s using a pentatonic scale, a very old traditional scale in many civilizations, Christianity replaced it with a heptatonic scale (Poland was Christianized in 966). It also has a form of invocation towards the Hops (as in, the Hops are treated as an alive being), invocations like this are commonly attributed to pagan customs. By the way, I’m not a folklorist, and haven’t read any proper research, I just wrote what I could find after a quick search, so sorry if that’s not going in depth. Can I ask the name of the Hungarian song? I tried looking it up but couldn’t find it.

[@FerenczAttila]

@@corpseinthesky6111 Thank you Marta. The related hungarian songs are "hopp ide tisztán", or its proportion pair in a different tempo called "mikor a menyasszonyt fektetni viszik". But it's not as well known here as chmielu in Poland, so it might be difficult to find it online. Anyway, you can check "Szvorák Katalin - Hopp ide tisztán" because that one is a nice performance, and she sings the polish version after the hungarian one. And i'm sure you have plenty of different variants of this song in Poland, sometimes it's quite it difficult to recognize that they essentially evolved from the same core. But if you check "Chorea Sponsa", which is a dance tune preserved by a 17th century manuscript, written in the northern part of the Kingdom of Hungary, present day Slovakia, you can hear it's also a variant of chmielu. And chorea sponsa literally means wedding dance, so it had the same function even back then. What you've written about the pentatonic scale in polish music is quite interesting, considering that one of the oldest stratas of hungarian folk music is also dominated by pentatonic songs. But our folklorists suggested that the pentatonic scale must had been widely used even the medieval era, and probably in the renaissance too, because plenty of these pentatonic songs are unmistakably renaissance dance tunes. It likely wasn't just wiped off after the christianization, even the local gregorian chants were pentatonic. So who knows, maybe the core of this song can be dated earlier than the renaissance but it was certainly influenced by renaissance music. And it's just my opinion that this song probably started to spread further in this region around that time. Many people don't recognize that Poland was really one of the major cultural centers of Europe in the renaissance era, it had a significant influence on the surrounding regions. And for example many hungarian songs from the period, or old hungarian folk songs reflect this polish influence. In Hungary most of the variants of this song were collected in the hungarian-slovakian contact zone or in regions which were populated by slovak settlers from the north. So i think it was mediated here by the slovaks, who had direct contact with the polish.

[@teodorkaskiewicz8423]

Oj chmielu, chmielu, ty bujne ziele, nie będzie bez cię żadne wesele! Oj chmielu, oj nieboże niech ci Pan Bóg dopomoże! Chmielu nieboże! Żebyśty chmielu na tyczki nie lazł, nie robił byś ty z panienek niewiast. Oj chmielu, oj nieboże niech ci Pan Bóg dopomoże! Chmielu nieboże! Ale ty chmielu na tyczki włazisz nie jedną panienkę wianeczka zbawisz. Oj chmielu, oj nieboże niech ci Pan Bóg dopomoże! Chmielu nieboże! Oj, chmielu, chmielu, szerokie liście! Już Marysienkę oczepiliście. Oj chmielu, oj nieboże niech ci Pan Bóg dopomoże! Chmielu nieboże!

[@eddiepacer]

Love Poland. My Polish wife and all the poles from Morocco 🇵🇱❤️🇲🇦

[@polishtargaryen5973]

Poles in Morocco?

[@hase3280]

Your wife is no more polish

[@eddiepacer]

@@hase3280 that's why she's happier

[@hase3280]

@@eddiepacer so why you dont live in shithole marroco ? 👌🏻😅

[@OlafKeller]

@@hase3280 BURN!

[@dusky7611]

Bardzo fajna ta wersja 😊 jak ja lubię folk..

[@grzegorzkuderski8940]

super wersja

[@Mi-bi6ez]

Gwara przepiekna, wiejski akcent ktorego wiejscy ludze w panice sie wyzbili.

[@vito4984]

W jakiej dokładnie panice?

[@bridgetking4553]

Not sure if they sing this exact song in those parts, but my moms side were from Wierzbiszki, in Suwałki. The folk music there sounds similar. I was born in America so idk.

[@central_scrutinizr]

Wonderful

[@central_scrutinizr]

The frenzied vitality of the instrumental outro brings a tear to my eye. I can envision folk weddings over the past 1,000 years, starting out solemnly but eventually leading to the people dancing with wild abandon and joy…I am a sentimental woman and that is very beautiful to me

[@maksimivanov5417]

Who's here because Frédéric Chopin is known to have improvised on the folk song "Chmiel" in his debut concert in Vienna?

[@sergiociomei1197]

I am here exactly for this reason!! I just read on a biography that Chopin had to improvise a "free fantasy" that night in Vienna. The audience gave him a theme to improvise on,an aria from the opera "La Dame Blanche" by Boieldieu,and Chopin masterfully improvised on it...but the hall really exploded when Chopin mixed that aria with the polish song "Chmiel"!! I am trying to locate which aria from the opera has been chosen that night...then I will have a lot of fun trying to combine the two things together at the piano,in order to discover how the hell Chopin managed this!! I love so much this aspect of my activity as a musician,trying to virtually enter in the composer's workshop,it's highly fascinating for me!!! Greetings from Genova!! Sergio

[@maksimivanov5417]

@@sergiociomei1197 That's really great! Good luck in your findings - unfortunately I couldn't find any source regarding the specific theme from "La Dame Blanche" that Chopin used. But as a musician you can try to make an educated guess!

[@sergiociomei1197]

@@maksimivanov5417 Thank you very much,dear Maxim,for your kind answer!! What you say is absolutely true,nobody knows anymore which aria from La Dame Blanche Chopin used for his "Freie Fantasie",as they say in Vienna! I guess I'll have to go through the whole opera,and then select the most "catchy" arias,the ones that the audience could arguably have loved (and remembered) already at the first listen! Then I'll try to combine those pieces with the old Polish folk song...let's see if it will make any sense!! Kindest regards. Sergio

[@hopbear]

In his letter to his family August 12, 1829, "I improvised on a theme from the White Lady... I should also take a Polish theme, I chose Chmiel, which electrified the public."

[@hopbear]

I just looked up the White Lady. It could be the three part opera by Boieldieu, first performed in Paris in 1825.

[@miriamsarz]

Who is responsible for the production of this version? It's my favourite that I've found, I would love to look into the musicians!!

[@pklosow]

Kapela Maliszów

[@bushcraftpopolsku4107]

W moich stronach się spiewa trochę inne słowa. Ôj chmielu chmielu, ôskôsne źéle...

[@dyladyla436]

jaki region? można dalej tekst?

[@teodorkaskiewicz8423]

@@dyladyla436 być może, to Kaszuby?

[@banaabekwegirl5731]

love it. could you post lyrics?

[@janpiotrgolen8068]

I love it too. The song is sung in the folk dialect that is rarely written. The lyrics in standard Polish spelling looks more or less like that: Oj chmielu, chmielu, szerokie liście, naszą Kasieńkę zaczepiałyście, Oj chmielu, oj niebożę, niech ci Pan Bóg dopomoże, chmielu-niebożę, Oj chmielu, oj niebożę, niech ci Pan Bóg dopomoże, chmielu-niebożę, Żebyś Ty chmielu na tyczki nie lazł, nie robiłbyś ty z panienek niewiast, Oj chmielu, oj niebożę, niech ci Pan Bóg dopomoże, chmielu-niebożę, Oj chmielu, oj niebożę, niech ci Pan Bóg dopomoże, chmielu-niebożę, Żebyś Ty chmielu na tyczki nie lazł, nie robiłbyś ty z panienek niewiast, Oj chmielu, oj niebożę, niech ci Pan Bóg dopomoże, chmielu-niebożę, Oj chmielu, oj niebożę, niech ci Pan Bóg dopomoże, chmielu-niebożę (rough) translation: Oh, hop, hop, wide leaves, you bothered (?) our Kasieńka, Oh hop, oh poor thing, God help you, hop-poor thing, Oh hop, oh poor thing, God help you, hop-poor thing, Lest you hop on the poles, you wouldn't make ladies out of girls, Oh hop, oh poor thing, God help you, hop-poor thing, Oh hop, oh poor thing, God help you, hop-poor thing. Lest you hop on the poles, you wouldn't make ladies out of girls, Oh hop, oh poor thing, God help you, hop-poor thing, Oh hop, oh poor thing, God help you, hop-poor thing. Under the link below you can find several other vesions of lyrics. The 4th version (wariant 4) represents dialect that has the most similar phonetic properties to the version form the video. bibliotekapiosenki.pl/utwory/Piesn_o_chmielu/tekst

[@harangviraag666]

@@janpiotrgolen8068 Thank you for your comment! Could you help me with lyrics and translation of this version also sung by Kapela Maliszów? From 2:42 there's a third verse. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q32TgYaCnppkh80

[@janpiotrgolen8068]

@@harangviraag666 "A że ty, chmielu, na tyczki leziesz, naszej Kasience wianek odbierzesz" This is standard spelling, not matching her dialectal (but wonderful in my opinion) pronunciation. "And because you, hop, are claimbing on the poles, you will take the wreath from our Kasienka" The wreath (wianek) is a symbol of virginity in Polish folk culture. Hop (chmiel) is a plant en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humulus_lupulus I hope it helps. All the best!

[@piotrkrynski5929]

Jeszcze Ziemia nie zginela kiedy my żyjemy , Co nam obca przemoc wzieła my milością z Niebios od bierzemy , nigdy wiecej narkotyków nigdy wiecej nigdy ...

[@piotrkrynski5929]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqvCeZ6Cor5lj6c

[@wolfensniper4012]

How can all of the Polish medieval song so slow while other Eastern European countries (Russia, Baltic, Bulgaria, Hungary.etc) having faster and happier songs of theirs

[@sandrazietek9928]

Try "W moim ogródeczku" This song is supposed to be slow because with it was certain rite at wedding Usually polish song's are faster, but we have slow ones as well

[@wolfensniper4012]

@@sandrazietek9928 thanks！

[@patrycjalamczyk3295]

marriages in those times weren't dictated by love, and this is strictly a wedding song. Singing this song during wedding made brides realise that they are no longer free - that's why it is so slow and overally sad

[@novislavdajic983]

It's a modern interpretation and depending on who performs it tempo varies. We also don't really know what was the original tempo sung in medieval times, so even in oral tradition it could have changed over the time. Same goes for songs from countries you mentioned

[@alh6255]

@@patrycjalamczyk3295 Exactly. In a very old Polish rural ritual tradition, a wedding was somewhat associated with a funeral. With the end of a free, pleasant life as an unmarried girl. There were changes in clothing, but above all in life: the death of independence, joining the husband's family, hard work on the farm and giving birth to children. Many such sad, but unusually poetic and beautiful songs were sung in choir by women at weddings.

[@wojtekapkiewicz8488]

Malisze!!

[@nocturnalamnesia3062]

I wonder if hungarian recordings from XIX ceuntry exists for southern poland folk songs.