Porsche Taycan - How Did It Go So Wrong?

[@danniepushkin5849]

NUMBER ONE reason - it is MASSIVELY overpriced to begin with. By about 40-30 grand. And the market just corrects the gullible buyers' delusions.

[@TrackAttackRacing]

👆

[@MrStubbs8157]

I dont think thats the main problem, but buying a taycan with 40k miles on it with the 50k Cost in the Horizont for a battery Pack because the car is out of warranty? Noone will go for it. Youd rather buy a petrol car and exchange some parts...and even in high spec engines, these costs wont and up to those numbers usually. Yeah..of course a high spec engine has rediculous Costa as sell, if it has to be replaced...but you can foresee it or risk it? Lets be real: Those arent every persons cars and seeing KIAs for 70k is also rediculous. My wage didnt go up that much that I can suddenly talk about cars easily in 60-100k range.. thats out of scopes for most and it should be. Its an importabt Transport, but should it chew away double or triple the Costa of your nice house throughout your life? For a glorified carriage?😂 Thats my Main problem...perhaps I dont see the status symbol of it anymore. Poor people buy big cars, rich people drive low end cars.. it doesnt indicate anything anymore. 😂😂

[@peterhammer6915]

the Taycan has been worth every penny for me. If I compare to the same level prices like an M3 G80 Comp, the Taycan is in most ways the far better car. And I am a BMW fanboy to start with.

[@danniepushkin5849]

@@peterhammer6915 If you're looking for a car that's just better than BMW (mostly) , your bar isnt that high. BMW hasn't made a car worth buying since the 90s. (with couple of exceptions)

[@peterhammer6915]

@@danniepushkin5849 that is your opinion. My opinion is totally different. All my M-cars have been magnificent, also after millennium change. I tried to change to Audi, Merc, Volvo whatever but every test drive was totally disappointing. The Taycan is fantastic to drive, way better than any AMG, or Audi I have driven. The lighter RS6 drives like a boat in compared to the Taycan. So I am very very happy with it.

[@MM-xr6tz]

The greatest issue outlined by Harry Metcalfe was you don't know how the battery has been looked after. If you need a new one in a Taycan you'll be staring down the barrel of £40K+. Add enormous depreciation to this and people are simply walking away.

[@TABonTV]

No denying - it's a huge risk

[@adamuk73]

There was a recall to pressure test certain batteries. Those that failed: £55k for a new one. Thankfully Porsche footed the bill

[@oldbasted]

New Mercedes AMG V8 engine quote £65k. So £40k seems on par. And it should get cheaper …. Oh wait it’s Porsche.

[@neurojitsu]

Porsche could simply implement a free battery health check: Nissan leaf buyers can do it with an aftermarket Bluetooth plugin device and read battery health with an app, so it's not rocket science. Every second hand electric car should be sold with a battery health test: Iit would help the whole industry... unless that is, manufactures know something we don't...

[@tastypymp1287]

​@@oldbasted That's a disingenuous comparison. You're not likely to put a new engine in your used AMG. Not only because it's less likely to completely fail than a battery but also because you'll put a reconditioned used one in if you had to. You can't put a reconditioned battery in your EV. Now, I'm pretty sure we all know this so I hope you reflect and quit behaving this way.

[@BenedictMarsh-y5j]

There are a few simple reasons for the Taycan’s catastrophic depreciation (and it is only going to significantly worsen 1. Too early in the technology curve. Solid state batteries will drop the weight 400 kilos; charge more rapidly and offer far greater range with no fire risk. At this point the old tech will be literally become worthless! 2. Uncertainty: battery condition/longevity is affected by so many unknowns that neither end user nor dealer has any faith in them. To add to the joys, Porsche’s battery warranty is a scam offering no security whatsoever (when you read the small print.) 3. Reliability: I have owned 11 Porsches (and currently have 3) and I have had significant problems with 40% of them. Porsches (lovely though they are ) are simply not that reliable . This is only exacerbated by the shift to EV. 4. Range: 186 miles at 85% at 18 degrees in a Turbo S (20% less in winter) is a joke. 5. Packaging. 5 meters long with limited space/storage in the saloon. 6. Lifeless drive. Neck snapping acceleration and very relaxing. But a tyre shredding 2.3 soulless tons, terrible brakes (either underpowered or - with the carbon ceramics - a terrifying dead spot before they bite do not result in pleasant experience. 6. Environment: Ihave run at least one electric car for the past 7 years and they are great for certain things… the environmental argument is largely bogus (unfortunately); particularly when applied to an incredibly heavy, inefficient car with terrible range. The public are voting with their feet.

[@TABonTV]

Some good points, the brake issue on 6 is a known fix. Shouldn't be like that.

[@yellow1one]

Supply and demand! These car’s will become a good value used car price proposition. The only people who are complaining are some of the new car buyers, but not all, or most. I purchased a near new in (2k on the clock) from BMW in 2017. Its value is a fraction of what I paid for it. The car still works. I am happy with it, and the plan was to drive it until the battery capacity degraded to point It became unusable, or it becomes uneconomical to repair. This hasn’t happened yet. iam still enjoying it with no plans to sell. I believe the only reason why some YTubers and are whining is because their speculative investment has gone bad.

[@CRAZYCR1T1C]

Last year when I was about to order a Taycan the dealer told me there was along wait list. But then I see them everywhere… very common car . This was because like me, company car buyers were taking advantage of the tax breaks. Immediately I realised that values were going to be a nightmare in future. I was right to wait.

[@mikewallace1723]

Both the employer and employee benefit buying EV. Tax benefits are significant. These are the buyers when new. These people didn’t buy Panemeras! The tax benefits were so high! Now they flood the second hand market and private buyers don’t buy!

[@mikewallace1723]

Nearly bought one. And they now have stock. Offer discounts! But the facelift is coming and depressing current model value. The range on the current one didn’t work for me. Facelift much better , on paper. As mentioned the APR on finance is crazy. People are feeling the pain. All cars are expensive today. Look at other brands! Madness.

[@peterhammer6915]

I have had my Taycan for 3 years now. I will probably keep it for at least 5 years more. Dont care about depreciation, its enjoying every time I sit into the car.

[@MrDead1975]

EV cars are white goods, mobile phones on wheels. great leased when new for the tax incentives but the private 2nd hand market is dead.

[@993mike]

Buying a Porsche is mostly based on emotion, and without a Porsche IC engine it’s just another soulless EV with poor range and in my opinion ugly styling (why does the Audi version look so much better?). High dollar EV’s are crazy bad investments which can ONLY be leased to shield you from the depreciation. Porsche HQ is probably having sleepless nights with their decision to go full EV with the new Macan and upcoming Boxster/Cayman. I’ve owned 10 Porsches, but will never buy an EV version.

[@Nord_Mann]

⁠@@993mikeI’ve owned 14 Porsches, one of them a Taycan, a 2020 4S, and I loved it, to the point of being evangelical about it. It’s hands down the best Porsche to drive and most comfortable, when you don’t have to get anywhere far away and you could just floor it, guzzling through its battery like no tomorrow. But after a while I realized the car had corrupted me. I wasn’t really enjoying its capabilities anymore. I had become a cheap, soulless bastard only caring about how much I could save on road tolls, parking and charging the bloody thing. I stressed around plugging it in when tariffs were low and I really hated myself for it. I even stopped using my other 2 911’s because petrol was much more expensive. So driving the 991 Carrera T or god forbid the 964Turbo, became like something of a luxury I denied myself, because I always measured it up against taking the Taycan. Then COVID happened and I got scared as I thought everything would come crashing down and sold my 964Turbo in March 2020.

[@drovid008]

I hate battery tech so much…. Nobody treats batteries well, and when a second owner gets a bill to replace the battery it’s a shitshow

[@drstevej2527]

The prices say otherwise. Did you watch the video?

[@dpie4859]

Tesla Model 3 and Y are holding up fairly well.

[@docminiway2595]

I have a 4s 2020 model , and already had costs of warranty repairs extending over 40k Swiss francs ! It has been in repair for over 3 months in the last 2 years ! The service is great , I get a rental for no expenses , but I am mainly sitting not in my car ! I am glad I didn’t buy it new , still I paid 115k , worth now 2 years later under 75k ! That’s crazy

[@TABonTV]

Some people have had poor luck with these cars, sorry to hear that!

[@Nathan-Higgers_13]

Wilsch en mir verkaufe?

[@derLenus]

40 k, how?

[@Thereal1-Me]

Worth under 48k now would be more accurate

[@wizzyno1566]

​@@Thereal1-Meyes

[@SISTIC1]

I think you’ve missed a crucial factor why vehicles aren’t selling: high interest rates! The uk is currently in a recession with record inflation, coupled with future energy cost uncertainty.

[@umirza]

This is literally the main reason….and not mentioned at all lol.

[@andrewbarber3696]

the average uk interest rate over the last 100 years is 8.3% , inflation in nowhere near record highs .

[@willielarsson9651]

I don't think recession affects the wealthy, the rich and poor gap is getting bigger, and they're getting wealthier.

[@TABonTV]

The market which I covered, is a consequence of these factors

[@drunvert]

People still don't want cars that depreciate quickly, even if interest rates are zero. And part of the problem with the Porsche is that when a battery cell fails, the car ends up in the shop for two or three or four months

[@mogsyman]

My GTS is on contract hire and the payments over 36 months are less than the massive depreciation. Regardless of cost etc, still an utterly brilliant car.

[@TABonTV]

And that's what it's all about - the drive 👍🏻

[@danniepushkin5849]

the market will correct your delusions in the near future.

[@TylerNelson-y1w]

GTS is the right choice!

[@thesaint8400]

So the solution is to waste your money renting a car like a muppet?

[@mogsyman]

@@thesaint8400muppet 🤔 Company pays for the car, offset against VAT and corporation tax, 2% benefit in kind. Hardly the decision of a muppet but each to their own.

[@adambodhi431]

Owning an electric car is a bit like a reverse game of pass the parcel. Everyone is slowly coming to understand that when the battery fails and needs replacing, as it ultimately will, whoever is unfortunate enough to own the car at that time, will either have a bill for tens of thousands of pounds or end up with a car worth less than the price of a replacement battery. So basically no one wants to be left holding the parcel when the music stops

[@dpie4859]

You get 180.000km or 8 years full warranty on battery and motors on a Tesla. My model 3 has only 3.5% degradation after 4y and 45.000km. I am not worrying at all. When warranty runs out and the car for whatever reason needs a new battery it will cost about 16.000k with labour. Given almost zero maintenance cost and extremely low running cost, no road tax it's actually still very low cost of ownership. Compared to a normal car with service, taxes, petrol and something is bound to break. Not cheap.

[@adambodhi431]

@@dpie4859 So what you've just described is the music still playing. It doesn't change my point. I've had cars that were from the 60's and were still running fine and when I decided to rebuild the engine it cost me 1k. How much will new electric motors cost for a tesla? Or any of the other components that haven't been in existence long enough know their lifespan. Also if the petrol tank ever needs replacing it won't cost me 16k. What do you think a Tesla will be worth in 56 years time? My car is still worth about 30k...... 24k more than I paid for it

[@beastieboy3926]

@@dpie4859 You sound desperate to mitigate you poor choice

[@beastieboy3926]

@@adambodhi431 You are so right. There wont be any ev that lasts 20 yrs,.It just wont happen.

[@huggyuk]

@@dpie4859What you’re saying makes perfect sense. Unfortunately however, the EV-naysayers don’t want to hear the facts, which is a real shame.

[@capn_shawn]

I bought a used Panamera two years ago and it is still worth what I paid for it. As long as people are willing to throw away money, the car companies will continue to pick it up.

[@eddherring4972]

Bought a new Nissan Leaf Tekna in 2014. With government discount and family working for Nissan, £3000 family discount the total discount of £8000 off the car the price was £27000. We moved approximately 10 months later and the range which was borderline became impossible by around 5 miles (each way). In late 2015 the car was valued at £6000 so a £35000 car lost £29000 value in that time or £2900 per month. That value dropped like a stone fired downwards from a catapult.

[@TABonTV]

That's brutal depreciation!

[@Gazza-zg2tr]

Electric cars are a big con ,Porsche Taycan .£120,000 new a year later £45000 lol

[@jimpydj]

I took one for a spin at the Porsche experience center Silverstone. It was amazing, but to me it was obvious these would flop. With a range of around 200 miles, (on a good day) which would only get worse over the coming years, a terrible charging network and high cost of charging, (unless at home) they just don't stack up. The tech is great, they look great, but the battery and charging experience is what has hammered them. At least with a Tesla you can be getting closer to 300 miles and more and use the extensive charging network, for less than half the money. And yes I am a Porsche fan, had Boxsters, 911 and Panamera. But the Tesla just wins in this department.

[@craigburgess2237]

My point was going to be range. I have one and you really only have 200 miles. Sure you can get 220 but who tries to get home on zero. So 220 means in the real world, leaving some margin in case you burn more juice for what ever reason means 200 is as far you ever would really go. And 200 now, is less in years to come and so many cheaper cars are up closer to 300. I think charging issues are irrelevant. Most Taycan owners will be home owners with home charging and a charge card given to you when you buy a Taycan, will get 3 years charging for only 30p per kWh at Ionity superchargers which I have managed to use maybe 75% of the time on longer runs. So with every new EV driving up the range, Taycan range is too low.

[@alextsukanov3536]

You do realize that Porsche can use the Tesla charging network too, right?

[@jimpydj]

@@alextsukanov3536yes and Tesla can revoke that if they wish and may well do if it starts to compromise their own vehicles. But more so, the Tacan with barely 200 miles of range on a good day, (when brand new) is not a vehicle I would choose to spend around 100k+ on. The range is just to short.

[@oldbasted]

Tesla is a great ev but doesn’t last or drive like a Porsche. I see no reason why Taycan battery won’t last 200,000 miles with minimal degradation. And that will last me 15 years or more and I’ll live with an utterly brilliant vehicle.

[@wizzyno1566]

​@@oldbastedyou don't know it will last that long. Nobody does.

[@JK-NOT-JK]

Yes please to a company car tax special. From what I understand, a lot of people misunderstand the tax benefits and implications for a company buying and selling an electric car. If you purchase a brand new fully electric car through your limited company, you can claim a First Year Allowance of 100% against your corporation tax bill. (Corporation tax is 25%.) This capital allowance can be claimed if the vehicle is purchased outright by the company or via a hire purchase agreement, but not if the vehicle is leased under an agreement whereby the company doesn’t actually own the vehicle. When calculating man-maths, people often forget when the vehicle is sold the company will pay corporation tax on any sale proceeds. Traditionally, cars do not qualify for 100% allowances, and instead qualify for a writing down allowance each year. A new electric car is therefore a tax advantage. Purchasing a second-hand fully electric vehicle through a company can still be beneficial because capital allowance are still available but at a lower rate of 18% per year. So, 7% lower than a new car, but a 2 year old Taycan CT 4s is perhaps £50k less now than 8 months’ ago! So, second-hand electric Porsche still makes sense. Almost no companies can claim back the VAT on a car purchase, electric or otherwise. This is because to reclaim the full VAT, it needs to be used exclusively for business, such as a pool car. Other benefits / no BiK charge: • If your company provides an employee with a an electric company car (leased or purchased), the business can pay for the installation of a home charging point. • Company will pay the insurance. • Company will pay the maintenance. • Electric vehicle drivers do not have to pay fuel benefit tax for any electricity paid for by their employer, even if it's for personal use. (This needs checking because I’m not sure how old the article was that I read.)

[@mikewallace1723]

Sure you are correct about the free “fuel” at work. See it all over the country. Cars being charged at work place, for free! This should end. It is a BIK. can’t get petrol for free! At some point the taxation on EVs will change. The government needs the money!

[@TABonTV]

Exactly - some great insight there!

[@paulcampbell114]

You are spot on

[@joetrojan2568]

This is just spending money to save on tax, plus someone is footing the bill be it your employer or taxpayer. The car itself being good value is separate to all the perks and subsidies on the backend. No doubt warm fuzzy feelings from paying less tax, but I'd argue on a far over inflated purchase price to begin with.

[@terryd8692]

When you think youre saving 40% off the price of a Taycan by getting it through salary sacrifice and then seeing the price plummet by 30% in the first year ☹️

[@TABonTV]

30% depreciation in year 1 isn't totally unheard of with cars in that kind of class. The unfortunate thing with the Taycan is it carries on 😆

[@terryd8692]

@@TABonTV on the plus side, when you come to the end of your 3 year lease, it's as cheap as chips for you to buy it outright 😄

[@simonfisher836]

Protect yourself by not buying one. New car prices have gone completely silly, totally out of touch with reality. So many nice second hand buys right now.

[@NotJanine777]

Just having a play on the car leasing company websites and something that makes the Porsche Taycan even a bad buy for companies is the lease cost. I priced a Taycan 4S on the Porsche website with a few extras and it came to £103,000. The cost to lease this exact car over 36 months with 3 months down and 12k miles per year is £1,689.00 + VAT per month. The BMW i5 M60 with a few extras on the BMW website also came to £103,000. However, that is where the similarities ended. The lease on the BMW with the same payment terms and mileage is only £903.00 + VAT per month. Same price car with virtually the same performance and features - £786 per month cheaper. I’m not surprised Porsche is struggling to sell the Taycan and the second-hand market has tanked - they are just MASSIVELY over priced.

[@adventureswithsci]

I kind of knew that I was going to take a massive hit on depreciation when I bought my CT4S last year - at nearly new it had already lost 24% off list when I got it and 6 months on, I daren't guess how much I'd get for it now! The only car I have ever had that didn't depreciate was a 911 GTS (quite the opposite), so you can't let it bother you - but I guess it's hard when the motoring media is currently giving a lot of air time to the depreciation on Taycans and the glut of them on the secondhand market. I guess like many Taycans, mine was bought through my company, we paid a large deposit, a good proportion of which would have gone to HMRC anyway. But.... I love the car, it looks and drives fabulously, I can charge at home at 7p/kWh which means I'm paying 25% of the cost of the diesel I was buying for the previous car, zero road tax (yes, I know that will no doubt change soon) and crucially, I look forward to driving it. Yes, I could have bought an electric golf for a fraction of the price - but I definitely wouldn't be watching KZbin videos about the joys of owning one....

[@TABonTV]

Some great points! The Taycan does have a lot of very good things going for it - if you can just open your eyes a bit!

[@oldbasted]

It’s really no different to owning any other high end luxury car. They all depreciate horribly. The difference is with the tax breaks you can afford to run a Taycan and enjoy the best luxury car very cheaply. A few people thought they could by a Porsche and it wouldn’t depreciate - I have no idea why. There are now hundreds of fast chargers in excess of 150kw that you can use to charge on long journeys, sure you have to plan a little but it’s no big deal and once accepted it’s just part of a road trip.

[@dwboston1]

Why is anyone surprised by this? This was all predicted by people who had an ounce of common sense, and rejected out of hand at the time by EV enthusiasts. -High cost of battery replacement -Little secondary/used car market demand for EVs -Lack of tax incentives for used EV purchasers -Uncertainty of battery pack lifespan and decreasing range as vehicle ages -Higher interest rates -Inflation -All the standard caveats of EV ownership (range, recharging, etc.) Nothing like spending $100K on a glorified golf cart and losing half your money in two years. Couldn't happen to a nicer group of virtue signalers.

[@eingast7798]

Love mine today, just like yesterday. (Bought it used with huge discount)

[@TABonTV]

Good to hear it!

[@pete6705]

I’m not getting an EV until there are no more combustion engine cars left

[@TABonTV]

Lots of petrolheads taking that approach.

[@cbotten106]

An associate from the proper government agency will be over to pry your fingers from the steering wheel...shortly.

[@robsmith1a]

I think the oversupply in the used market is the main thing. The enthusiast market wanting to spend £50k on a used sports car is very limited and the self justification that it is some kind of investment no longer exists. I also think enthusiasts tend to want something with an engine. I think car enthusiasm in the future will be a bit like railway enthusiasts loving steam. Electric trains are so much better but no real appeal and I see the same happening with EVs. Company car tax breaks really do distort the market for EVs as you say.

[@TABonTV]

Great observations there 👍🏻

[@simonbarnes9600]

As soon as you got excited about the Isuzu Piazza Turbo.... I subscribed lol, only a real fanatic would know about these!!

[@TABonTV]

Ha! Thanks, wish I'd got some footage! Very rare!

[@gordondocherty6061]

Owned one. Loved it ❤

[@cuauhtemocjeronimo]

Do you know that if you move the passenger seat all the way forward the headrest will crack the glass roof? That happens to me and Porsche is in total denial of this situation negating a warranty claim. It’s not a manufacturing defect they say, it’s the customer’s fault, unbelievable. Legal battle coming up…Will keep you posted

[@eddherring4972]

What? Headrest is nowhere near the roof

[@MtTaylorPaul]

Good luck, it sounds like a you problem.

[@paulreilly5987]

If Porsche did a smaller ev it would be good. The Taycan is big. However, I like the quality of Porsche interiors. I like their high end leather. I have a couple of Porsches (bought new to my own spec) but not bothered with the taycan due to size. A smaller EV car would be a great little runaround to go into town with. Luxury small EV cars a big segment in my view. My wife wants something she can park in the tiny British car park spaces.

[@richardn2832]

I agree, they are way to big. Almost 6ft wide!!

[@TABonTV]

Yes, agree. We'll see more and more in this sector. EV boxster on the way and there'll be more competition just round the corner!

[@cbotten106]

The problem is the battery size to get a range long enough to be practical ends up dictating a larger vehicle. Just the battery footprint necessitates a larger sized automobile. All current subcompact EVs have crap range.

[@donaldduck5731]

They're in the £40k's used on Autotrader, however battery tech. and ranges are moving so fast so quickly, if it's not possible or financially viable to upgrade the battery I'd still how on.

[@SamKyosho]

Do you think prices will continue to drop?. Right now in the US they are almost 60% off for a used turbo S that is 3-4 years old

[@jimsteinway695]

60% off on a USED Taycan, is a complete ripoff

[@SamKyosho]

@@jimsteinway695 Are you suggesting it should be even more off?

[@TABonTV]

As long as used supply continues to increase, prices will struggle to level out

[@lowbirds90]

In the UK, it's more like 80%

[@wizzyno1566]

​@@lowbirds90no its not

[@Paris__]

Excellent sum up!......I purchased my Taycan Turbo S here in the UK (sticker price of £169k) for £120k cash. The Porsche dealer had a car park full of every colour and spec. I got 10k of extras (not worth the money) thrown in. Unless you can afford it and pay cash.....DON'T BUY ONE! You are paying just for that Porsche badge. No where near as good (or as quick) as my Tesla Model S Plaid that I keep in Monaco.....that is, unless you don't mind driving something that looks like a giant suppository 😂🎉

[@TABonTV]

Thanks for the feedback! I don't think the plaid looks quite that bad 😆

[@SA-uk2ov]

The S doesn’t look bad but it drives like a .Chevy impala. The Taycan drives well but boring.

[@nabilfarah7817]

Another reason is that Luxury Chinese cars are starting to appear in Europe at very reasonable prices and the quality they have are very very good .

[@TABonTV]

They are getting very good, very quickly!

[@cbotten106]

Good, let's hope they can get into all markets worldwide and inject some real competition into the EV game. Especially, the sub $30K range which should exist but doesn't .

[@rebelranter]

General technology advances will continually hit the values of second hand EVs. Also, the majority of EVs have no end user facing method of showing the health of the battery. A battery that has been constantly charged on a fast charger, or in an EV that has been constantly driven hard will have more wear than one in a car home charged and not ragged.

[@TheNifster]

Guy at the local dealership told me the other day that the asking price on these cars is above reach for even those who would stretch to reach. They didn't have one car on the lot under 90k.

[@TABonTV]

Which country we talking here? US?

[@tonyhilliarduk]

I’m delighted the depreciation is so severe! My Taycan 4S CT was £126,000 5 months ago when new. I just picked it up for £67,000. That’s over £10k per month depreciation!

[@TABonTV]

As a used car - it's a bargain

[@ViralRivers]

Simple. Government subsidizes EVs, the charging infrastructure, and on average manufactures lost money in every EV sold. Let the market demand dictate itself instead of forcing it on everyone

[@fydstar]

10 Isuzu Piazza Turbo’s on the road in the Uk according to howmanyleft. There is only one Talbot Tagora on the road though, not even any sorned!!

[@parvinkukar1259]

Great insight. Regardless of list price, when the secondhand market price reflects similar price to the competition then it will bottom out. China byd is also a threat not to taycan but Tesla as they start to build quality cars at a more affordable price.

[@CraigAdams-s9i]

They need to adjust the design to make battery replacement a lot easier.

[@TABonTV]

Expensive and good value are 2 different things.

[@DavidBrown-bs7gg]

Doesn’t matter how easy they are to replace - it’s simply the cost of the batteries that is so high

[@josiahng6452]

Nio is the only manufacturer who has battery swap technology and infrastructure. Check them out.

[@Japplesnap]

EVs will have terrible resale value simply because it's newer technology and it's improving rapidly. Nobody is going to want the old version when the new version is so much better.

[@cbotten106]

That's not really true if somebody could lay hands on a cheap reliable vehicle with very low ownership costs, which ultimately is where used EVs should end up, the market would be nearly perpetual for them. The ability to source replacement batteries for all the orphaned early adopter battery configurations (the current models) is an absolute deal breaker. You won't be able to get a usable, reasonably-priced replacement battery for most current EVs: EVER! Not now, not in a couple of years and certainly not in a decade or more. That is the dirty little secret that used EV buyers need to hold in the back of their minds when shopping in the used EV "bargain bin", assuming long term ownership is desired. The old cliche about cars being a depreciating asset not an investment is exponentially true for the EV battery pack.

[@SWR112]

Did he just say a £140k Car is good price 😂 What world do these clowns think we live in. They produced too many and now have done a major upgrade. It’s like an iPhone 13 when the iPhone 15 has just landed. Taycans to me look great and I’d have one in a minute but as shown sticker prices of £160k then a year later same Car is £70k is madness. Who wants to take a £90k hit more or less pissing it up a wall. Porsche are simply so up themselves. Didn’t know the reliability was a problem with the Taycans, you’d think they would be bulletproof. And don’t count that ice ban holding at 2035 after the election anything can happen. Dear Porsche if a Taycan is taking up lot space I’ll take one and look after it and use it and give it back when you need it 😁

[@johnnyboy1586]

I also wonder when the solid state batteries come in which is not far away wil cars like the porsche be obsolete or will you be able to swap with newer better tec?

[@mikewallace1723]

Current EVs will be the Betamax of the video world😂

[@CRAZYCR1T1C]

Solid state is still very far away. Don’t believe all the hype. It’s basic physics they have to reinvent .

[@simonconran241]

You'll be able to change over to solid state battery, but you'll also have to change the battery management system. Goodness knows what the cost will be.

[@robertwoodhouse-bm7kt]

Biggest car battery manufacturer is CATL, their owner and chairman says over the last 10 years he´s spent $1bn on R&D on solid state batteries. He said you can build them but only under high pressure and they start to go bad after 20 charges. You cannot make them commercially. Toyota keeps promising solid state in 2 years time, been saying that for the past 6 years.

[@tommyc922]

The biggest problem is that there is no tax incentive passed on to the used EV market. !00% tax relief when buying new and zero when used. Add high interest rates, high charging prices, range....

[@michaellaforte6964]

I’m reminded of Sun Microsystems and Silicon Graphics, they were the premium power work stations BITD and cost an absolute premium and fell victim to Moore’s law, continuous faster better cheaper. Seems like it might be a nice car at 40k, but 120k is luxury market. If Apple came out with their watch at a price-point to compete in the 10k watch market, it would be DOA, at 500 its even a bit questionable due to planned obsolescence. Anyway, a battery replacement at 40k is a non-starter for most folks

[@TABonTV]

Yes! I was in awe of SGI products back in the day. $500k for an Onyx! 🤯 Now you have more power in your phone. Prices do need to come down...

[@TheCarlbrian]

reason 4 is the biggest, if you can by a car for whatever the cost is and then offset the cost against your profits to reduce tax, then people will flood to by the most expensive cars on cheap business leases.

[@justinsymonds8470]

I hope this comment section can help me understand two things. 1. does anyone really “BUYS’ EVs? as far as I’m aware most people lease them. I’ve leased two so far i love them as daily drivers because so cheap to run and maintain (if you get one with specs of a performance car). My second question is, when you lease a car why does depreciation matter? you hand it back at the end of your lease and even if the cars in negative equity, as long as not too bad you can either clear that with a deposit or add the negative equity to your new finance.

[@paulpercival6581]

Great insights into what to think about before buying one of these awesome cars! I have had a deposit on hold with Porsche for 18 months now whilst watching the market drop like a lead balloon! My main concern is what will happen in 10 years when the batteries need replacing and what people will think when buying one once it's 6 years old plus, surly this will be an issue.

[@obieWanmotivation]

In my opinion, batteries will be less of an issue due to expected increase of economies of scale and improvement in technology which generally results in fairly lower prices. The prices are dropping due to the unknown (EVs are newbies compared to 100yr record of ICE cars) and less to due with battery quality.

[@TABonTV]

There's no escaping - batteries will need replaced at some point.

[@chiganuggoo9929]

just short of 40k to replace on a GTS currently. Good luck with that.

[@lauriedixon9397]

Batteries meant to last the lifetime of car. My Lexus RX hybrid batteries seemed to have the same output up to 10 yrs old and with its new owner now 17 years old and battery range still holding out.

[@mrmoneyhacks5480]

The only reason is: Those headlights with the droopy bits are an abomination unto God. That is not a Porsche design. I oppose censorship laws, but we should make an exception so that we can scrub this atrocity of a car from the history books, lest our grandchildren be ashamed and disgusted with us.

[@ComeJesusChrist]

For the price of a new Taycan, you could get a used 996 generation 911 for each day of the week and left some money for fuel. Keep it for a year or two and you only have money for a bargain 911 for Monday and Tuesday.

[@systemx4]

Evs only work when they cost the same as normal cars. They are far too expensive to make

[@TABonTV]

Hope is they'll get a lot cheaper!

[@jbisham8986]

I think the replacement battery being between £40,000 and £50,000 might also be an issue . Will effectively make these worthless once the warranty has expired

[@Rampage1Rules]

Wouldn't even buy the car for a £1 knowing I had to replace the battery

[@alanwayte432]

In U.K. for a second car, mostly required for school runs, and local 60 mile commute, we Purchased a 2023 Jaguar I Pace HSE for £39.000 ten months ago it was retailed for £69.000 and has done 8500 miles, it comes with balance off Jaguar Warranty, Depreciation for once working in used buyers favour..❤

[@TABonTV]

Exactly this, personally I think it's good, and opens doors for a lot of buyers.

[@ILoveGreatThings]

I’ve decided at the start of the ev craze to wait a couple generations and I think I was right if not too optimistic. There’s still a lot of long term issues to work out. Short leases who cares, but if you are buying to keep, better not be an EV

[@TABonTV]

Seems like a sensible approach. I think (hope) everyone buying an EV knows it's not going to be a forever car.

[@andrewhurstcars]

I think Porsche are trying to keep it as a premium product. Although the more Porsche put up prices, the more pressure dealers are under to discount new EV cars to sell stock. That number of precious gen Taycans for sale will only increase when the new model starts being delivered to customers.

[@David-fj5lz]

Especially now with those scrap hunting cablers!How many can they scrap in a night??

[@morten_hannesbo]

For sure unusual for Porsche but happens occasionally for many manufacturers (look at Maserati, Range Rover etc). Tesla Model S pre 2020 took huge residual hits, too.

[@jeanbaptistelabelle]

I had a S75D from 2017. Cost me 600€ monthly leasing (20k of down payment) from which I saved 350€ between electricity vs diesel. Then sold it at 180000km with a 10k gain on the leasing purchases price. It had still 44% of its new value. At this number of km, this is unheard off in ICE car.

[@morten_hannesbo]

@@jeanbaptistelabelle You did well here. Today would be another picture because of the price reductions Tesla made in 2023.

[@axiomic]

My mate bought a Taycan Cross and sold it after about 5 months.. it wasn't a comfortable ride and made him feel nauseous and his family uncomfortable, and worst of all it had a high pitched electronic noise that drove him mad.. so after a 6+month wait to receive it, after 5 months sold it back to the dealership for a $9k loss on a $200k purchase. Could have been worse.

[@SISTIC1]

Increased prices of new taycans will only serve to increase prices of second hand taycans, which is positive news for current taycan owners! It will be more expensive purchasing brand new, subsequently compelling some to buy second hand, therefore propping up used taycan prices-positive news for current taycan owners. This has been Porsche policy for many years.

[@TABonTV]

I hope so, but too much uncertainty - and the way new Taycans are purchased doesn't help at all.

[@SA-uk2ov]

I doubt it. The 40% range gap between old and new Taycans will only drive the first gen lower. Let’s keep in mind the Taycan already launched with low range for 92kw pack. Lots of people ordered the Gen 1 Taycan sight unseen. If we are being honest, for such a large car it’s cramped inside. Way more options now on the market and I think a lot of people who prefer a higher ride hide will migrate to the Macan ev if anything - which is cheaper. Yet again driving the Gen 1 Taycan market down further.

[@stableianF1oracle]

My heart bleeds for people so desperate to survive day to day they can only afford a Porsche. What’s the next video subject ? How hard it’s become to run a 400ft private yacht. 🤪🤪🤪🤪

[@OcOg1]

This is a car channel💡If you want to save the world, go find another channel or charity.

[@stableianF1oracle]

@@OcOg1 Ooooo touchy. Someone’s not had their breast milk today have they 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪

[@morten_hannesbo]

Thank you for an interesting video. I drive a Taycan 4S 2021MY - a great car! Why is this happening? I see a few reasons: Firstly, the early Porsche EV-adopters have already bought their Taycan and are moving on, dropping their Taycan after the lease has expired. Secondly, as you mentioned, the prices of the new Porsche EVs are just too high from begin with. The Macan continues along this path and will have a residual value problem later on. Thirdly, the many problems with the Taycan software and several recalls of this new premium - and expensive - EVs have shattered customers’ faith in the new technology and this has further added to the pressure on used EV-car prices in general and Taycan in particular (yet, Tesla Model S pre-2021 are hit just as bad). Finally, the Porsche dealers in general have not embraced the EVs and have failed to develop used car programmes with extended warranties and attractive financing, often leaving existing owners with negative equity and fear of expensive repairs, and thus failing to attract new customers. The result? You can pick up a young low mileage Taycan at incredibly low prices.

[@TABonTV]

Thanks for the comment, some great points there!

[@davidpayne3938]

I think the electric car market has been caught in a perfect storm in regards to depreciation especially with the extension of selling vehicles with a combustion engine which will get extended in my opinion beyond the already extended period of 2035 because firstly we in the UK aren't ready for them and also the decision to buy one and going green should be left to the individual because the government are having to build more gas burning stations in order to generate the extra electricity which defeats the whole object of going green? If for example the government had an grant of combining solar panels and battery storage with buying of a new electric car then the electric car market and our environment would be on to a winner. Electric car's do have their disadvantages but they have the potential to be the future but are sadly not at the moment.🇬🇧👍

[@TABonTV]

Absolutely, there's lots stacked against them right now and government not doing enough to incentivise

[@cbotten106]

Well, you'd rather your (natural) gas get burned in a high-tech power plant with some opportunity to mitigate emissions before dumping into our air. So EVs offer that, for whatever it's worth. I agree that the electric grids globally are nowhere near ready for total EVs by 2035, nor will they be.

[@OlavAlexanderMjelde]

Hey everyone, just a heads up! Expect the prices to drop even more when Porsche releases their new models. I've been warning about this 'flipping EVs' trend for a while now, not just with Porsche but with all electric vehicles. Before July 2022, you could basically buy any EV and make a quick profit, thanks to high demand and low supply. People were eager to hop on the EV bandwagon, especially with low interest rates and extra savings from staying home during the pandemic boredom. But now, with more cars flooding the market, the EV resale value is taking a hit. It's kinda like how traditional cars depreciate. Keep in mind, those who buy EVs when they're brand new are often early adopters, willing to pay extra for the latest tech. They're also the ones likely to sell these cars after a while. Just some food for thought! 😊🚗

[@masmainster]

Too expensive, sitting around in queues waiting to charge the thing, abysmal range, virtually as expensive to charge on a trip as filling a petrol car, depreciation unbelievable.

[@Midg-td3ty]

Electric Cars will undergo rapid improvements. In performance/range/charge times. So they will devalue more. As the successors will be substantially better.

[@christo123]

Your right about not being bothered with an EV. Coming from Australia where infrastructure is lacking to say the least but mostly our massive distances we have to travel , EVs just don't make sense

[@ak1ranger]

After owning an absolute dumpster fire (lemon?) Cayenne for six years and finally almost giving it away for $9000 at 88K miles trade for a 2021 Dodge Durango SRT 392 I sincerely hope that Porsche falls of a cliff. Everything from the dreadful dealer, the total of 11 months it was out of service, my 11 months driving Enterprise rentals that consisted of Camrys, Malibus, Altimas and a Ford Ranger for a staggering 5 months. Porsche is awful and they treated me as if I was an teenage idiot (Im 54) the entire time. I'm sure the Taycan is garbage!

[@dagnut]

Well presented video surprised you've not had more subscribers.

[@TABonTV]

Thanks, YT is a long game, esp in automotive.

[@markholroyd8021]

Agree with all of what you said. Also enjoyed watching you drive from “Death Roundabout” to North Camp.

[@TABonTV]

Appreciated, yep, one of the most scenic routes the world has to offer.

[@markholroyd8021]

Indeed. Hand't realised we were neighbours either. @@TABonTV

[@liang8255]

EVs are good, but not those overpriced ones like the German models. If you are paying 100k for EV you are stupid, if you pay under 50k you get the point.

[@mattblake8701]

In summary, the secondary market valuation is a function of i) purchase price less ii) tax incentives. This is compounded by higher borrowing costs (interest rates) impacting affordability. The EV tax incentives made the Taycan accessible to non-Porsche drivers, who do not exist in the secondary market. Supply and demand economics. Factoring in general EV uncertainty puts increased downward pressure on demand. This is not an isolated Taycan dynamic but common to the EV market. For example, see Audi Etron.

[@nabilfarah7817]

Thanks to this video analysis….While reading through the comments I was put off buying a second hand 2022 Taycan 4s from California for only $40K US …. Though the pictures look great I am pretty sure that the battery is in its last 50 miles 😅….

[@TABonTV]

That's the thing. You never know how the battery is unless you can get it on diagnostics...

[@abrakadavra3193]

But there should be a warranty on the battery?

[@asphalthedgehog6580]

Would I buy a second hand Taycan looking at insurance and possible service costs? Maybe for the price of a second hand e-UP yes. I like cars, always did, but this Taycan does not occur on my wishlist, which must be about 109 cars long.

[@tonyadeney1245]

from watching reviews its a very good (electric car) but the original prices from 80k to 160k - ///// thats a lot ----- years ago bought a four year old boxster 3.2 spent quite some time looking but full p history - for that you got a bargain - it was well under 10k and drove like a brand new car - even looked like brand new it was well made and looked after .. owner had new 911 on order for the wife ... yes .. - fairly low mileage like for a porshe run in .. anyone who paid 100 - 160k for a taycan must have been drunk or silly rich ... now do now have full electric - personally advise go hybrid until charging network sorted out its patchy often busy often doesnt work -- getting stranded waiting hours ... both has happened in 1 year .. and without your own garage , they would be completely impratical

[@Judith-c6r]

The Taycan? Tax reasons only in the UK. A big car and asMercedes new SL, too wide for the UK roads. I think your second hand SL deserves more space on your channel. A really nice car.

[@TABonTV]

More content on the SL inbound 👍🏻

[@rolffuchs2737]

And the new Hyundai Ionic 5 N. 641 bhp for under 70.000 bp. And it has gear shifting and sportscar sound.

[@TABonTV]

It is good value, just not sure about fake engine noises... I like the fact that Porsche just went for a spaceship kinda vibe.

[@rolffuchs2737]

You can turn it of if you want. Personally il like it but I don`t need it all the time.@@TABonTV

[@DSC800]

I think a better formula for a successful Porsche EV would be the Boxster version. Make it fun but basic and justify keeping it well under $100k. Something like the performance of a lightened Tesla M3 but can truely handle. Someone needs to come out with the "Mazda Miata" of fun EV's.

[@titus5486]

Wonderful depreciation. Like with investing or trading, it's never good to buy the top. 😊

[@pumaadidas]

leasing this mobile phone on wheels

[@jeanbaptistelabelle]

Is your car a chain saw on wheel?

[@scottbonnes3992]

The basic model has gone up considerably since its release here in Ireland. Since last year another €14k. In general with all electric brands, the second hand market is very weak. I think customers are nervous picking up one. Garages are also offering 0% finance on new and 10.9% with second hand…garages are selling like crazy the new cars. Like you said when you go to trade in you are in for a shock!! -60% after 2 years… you will see less newer cars coming however , when pcp contracts end, customers will have lost their deposit and be forced to hand back or refinance…again, this will only make them switch back to the old way…

[@TABonTV]

Yeah, the pricing strategy doesn't seem to make any sense!

[@bobdrago69657]

I didn’t buy my Taycan as an investment. I enjoy it. I wanted to liberate myself from Big Oil and I wanted a sports EV with a prestige label. 3 years ownership and not a single major blip.

[@TABonTV]

Great to read this! So many folk can't get over the EV thing. I'm a huge fan of the way the Taycan drives on the road.

[@cbotten106]

Wish more owners with your experience would chime in! Great to hear.

[@NotJanine777]

Nice to see you driving around Farnborough 😊

[@murraywilkinson4794]

Great Video, these are on Auto trader from around £43000. The ONLY way to get a Taycan is to put it on a Business Lease, zero benefit in kind (or now 2%) full deductible and (providing you don't go over mileage) you just hand it back to the finance company. DON'T USE YOUR OWN CASH...THATS SUICIDE!

[@TABonTV]

Thanks! Exactly - seems the right way to go at the moment.

[@nerdbikes3841]

Original buyer’s misery is 2nd owner’s joy. Here is the other side of the coin- keeping gasoline or diesel vehicles on the road at least in the US is getting very expensive as mechanic shops greatly increase their rates, parts become scarce and bookings and waiting times out for months. EVs do not need nearly as much service on average. Not to mention young techs do not want to deal with ICE vehicles and just want to learn EV tech.

[@TABonTV]

A positive comment about the EV situation! Great points there 👍🏻

[@jerdonsbabbler3515]

I've had 6 Porsche's over thirty years. I am devoted. I find the Taycan to be deeply depressing; a harbinger of doom!

[@nattcharles]

When the new model comes out next year the pre facelift Turbo S will drop to around £50k if not less.

[@ethansalimabean419]

This is what I’m waiting for! 😊

[@caillongouarnemansau]

Maybe the infrastructure makes the value of the cars? Here in France infrastructures and costs are more interesting and the cheapest used Taycan we can afford is around 60000 £ and 32000 miles

[@TABonTV]

For sure - it will have an impact. Much like a boat in the middle of a sandy desert isn't going to be worth much...

[@shingnosis]

On the second hand market you can still get a low mileage BMW diesel with +700NM and +600 mile range for like 1/3-1/4 the price of a new Taycan 4S. Buy one of those before they're gone would be my suggestion. I like EV's but battery tech still have some ways to go. No charging to 100% everyday, bad winter performance, expensive public chargers, shouldn't leave with less than 40% in the battery when it's below freezing etc etc. The pitfalls of the modern EV are still many.

[@TABonTV]

I do love a BMW 6 pot diesel, owned one previously. Currently have a Merc V6 diesel which seems a bit lazier.

[@shingnosis]

@@TABonTV Doesn't matter too much, the merc v6 diesel are great too imho!

[@doctorj7112]

I had a 2020 S and I kept it for 9 months. I didn't lose a penny. I thought this car would do WELL but looks like I was wrong! I really liked the car. The only thing I didn't like were the BRAKES; they were HORRIBLE!

[@TABonTV]

I guess you had it from new and sold before the big📉? Yep, the brakes do need more work

[@DickyChap]

“Go so wrong?” What on earth are you talking about? The Taycan has been a huge success and the next version is even more incredible. News cars depreciate quickly…oh dear, let me get my violin out. EV sales are going ballistic no matter what clickbait articles say. All this says to me is the Taycan can be had for bargain prices for people who couldn’t afford the new sticker price. It’s fantastic.

[@TABonTV]

They're really not going ballistic, in fact, right now they're declining. I can't hear your tiny violin.

[@benjamabbey6002]

Can you do more SL55 content please 👌

[@TABonTV]

I'll take that order! 😆 More on the way shortly - take a break from the Taycan content!

[@distreall]

I think for the first Taycan is quite simple. It's a very expensive EV with very bad range. New model is much better in that matter. But as long as new EV models will have much better technology, current ones will loose value quickly. I think newer model will be as bad, because we gonna have solid state battery EVs before they will make another refresh.

[@distreall]

People forget that all EVs are still in the early adoption phase, and all current EVs will be worthless in a few years. Their battery will degrade and technology will be ancient in no time.

[@C2B1303]

@@distreall drinking the ICE kool aid

[@distreall]

I drive a Tesla, and I ordered a Macan 4 as soon as they launched the configurator. ICE cars feel like old technology once you jump into EVs. But I have them on a lease, so I don't need to care if they will depreciate quickly.

[@johnvale295]

Yes, yes, yes, but...the ACCELERATION! 😺

[@TABonTV]

Yes! 🔥

[@ortiz2161996]

Because during the chip shortage all cars had mkt adjustments that were ridiculous. Not to mention the amount of these people had to buy to get an gt3 rs. This should be in the same price range as the tesla s plaid.

[@marianatrench7323]

Let's all pretend to ignore the elephant in the room (because it offends too many): The Plaid S has better accleration and top speed, much better range, and battery tech, with a pack that lasts over 1 million km without the Taycan issues, more advanced, one speed carbon-wrapped motor, light years better software, FSD, a working, reliable charging network, lower maintenance cost, and on and on...For half the price...

[@Stealth86651]

Turns out people don't want to spend 30% extra on a less capable/compatible vehicle that takes a lot more money and labor to fix. Not to mention being useless if you rent and charging stations are always a long wait like here. On top of that you have to pay 1/5-1/4 of the car's value to replace the battery pack when that inevitably goes bad as well. All in all, don't buy an EV or cars in general as an investment, really not a difficult concept.

[@MrStubbs8157]

I am just worried, if I buy one and the battery gets problematic. It is a potential cost in the horizon, which is more than 2/3 of the used taycan price. Thats the main problem: I always thought, that all Musk fanboys told us, that degradation is minor...so you can put several 100k on them before changing. As thats not the case, those cars are throwaway cars.

[@s111nps]

Porsche put the price up to try and prop up the used values. Wrong move, imo.Also,there’s never been so many used Porsches in the market We are 5:37 in a recession. 100k plus vehicles will suffer. Now you have more choice in the used EV market, and better availability, the market will adjust. Don’t agree that the private buyers aren’t turning to electric. They are reluctant to buy anything,across the board. What is selling,is sensibly priced used cars. The leasing companies are now putting more cars into the used market,and also supplying more new EV,s to private buyers, on pcp,etc.When interest rates settle, and we begin to recover, the used car market will level out, and there will be more buying activity later this year, or early next year. It’s a buyers market,and there’s some seriously good value to be had,for those prepared to spend.

[@dingbell5498]

Ok for tax deductions but government subsidies have to come from somewhere. Nothing for the private buyer except potential massive costs in maintenance, and range worries, but great if you don’t go far.

[@tonybirdwood7652]

The cost of tooling to produce a pressed metal car bodyshell is large. Recovering this investment on a low volume product results in a high retail cost unless the manufacturer treats it as a halo model (AKA "loss leader"). Taycan and Taycan Cross = two different body types, compounding the problem. Perhaps Porsche have a better plan for the e Macan?

[@TABonTV]

Will be interesting to see how the EV Macan plays out in this market. Frankly right now the odds are stacked against it...

[@andyjarvisio5337]

Prices have stabilised, unfortunately.. hopefully the new model will force prices lower.

[@TABonTV]

I don't think they can really get much lower! 😆

[@rocketron9]

We bought a Model 3 and lease a Model Y through our business,absolutely rinsed the tax man.