Portable EME moon bounce setup

Today on HamRadioComms I show my portable EME setup that I setup each time I want to make a contact. I made my 1st moon bounce EME contact today (June 17, 2018) using a single M2 12 element Yagi and 100W with station DL7APV in Germany he was using 750W and 128x11 el yagis!
EQUIPMENT LIST:
ICOM IC-910H Satellite Transceiver with TCXO
MFJ-4230MV 30Amp power supply
Tigertronics Signalink USB sound card interface
Gateway Netbook with JT-65 software
TE Systems 4410G UHF Linear 100W Amp 430-450 Mhz CW/SSB/FM GasFet Pre-amp
RadioShack 25A continuous power supply
Powerwerx 12vdc digital meter
M2 432-12EME 432mhz beam 12 elements, 16dbi gain 9.7ft boom Yagi antenna
Manfrotto Tripod

[@johnwilson3918]

Brilliant. I love the fact that you're using really cheap bits which anyone can buy from a hardware store.

[@loueckert4970]

That's very cool 73 de KT1R

[@jddr.jkindle9708]

We like the portable, simple set-up. Your an inspiration.

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you! I appreciate it.. Ed

[@darylw-m9549]

Thanks for the video. I like that you explained and showed us how to try it.

[@rotortrek9531]

Great job! You convinced me to pull the trigger on EME. Don't have a lot of space for antennas, and have to set up every time, so now I see it can be done. 73!

[@hamradiocomms]

Thanks! I just downsized my house, and I have a small yard but I'm still going to be able to give it a try here. I have a clearer shot of the sky, and can work closer to the horizon, but I'm in an HOA that allows vertical antennas and wire antennas are fine but no yagis on the roof. But since I'm portable I can just set up my yagi at night and no one will know! Yes, give it a try, there's no better time, with JT65 mode and big guns at the other end it's possible now with a small station. On 432 there are probably about 20 - 25 stations in the world that can work me. With those who want to use 2m it's many more, maybe 100? not sure. This is one of the most fun things I've done in amateur radio. Thanks for watching and for the comment, Ed N1UHF

[@Mark300win]

Why jt65? Why not wspr? Any particular reason?

[@Dan-qp1el]

I've been looking for a video like this! Thanks

[@hamradiocomms]

I"m glad you found it useful! Good luck and have fun if you try it.

[@storskegg]

i keep coming back to this vid, and want to like it each time. the trouble is YT doesn't let me like it more than once ;-)

[@hamradiocomms]

Sorry for the late reply... Thank you very much for the thumbs up and watching it, I'm glad you're enjoying it!

[@thomasbrooks8401]

Ed - Congrats on your first EME contact! That basic portable station intrigues me as I was thinking of creating something similar here and wondered if it would work. You've shown it can so I may get started assembling my own. I have the radio, a preamp, and a tripod, and even a home brew friction PVC swivel mount which I use with my Arrow antenna for working satellites on Field Day. Once I decide on a suitable antenna my goal will be first just to hear some EME, then I'll think about the TX side. Thanks for the inspiration. - Tom, K4TB

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you! I found out about moonbounce about 12 years ago, and wanted to do it since then. In the past year I've been getting all the parts I need, and finally got the TCXO a few weeks ago and installed it. On June 17 was my first attempt, I wasn't able to decode anything... so tried on Sunday and figured out the gain on the waterfall display wasn't high enough, after I fixed that the decodes popped right up and made the contact. After I made the video and looked at my video, the screen showed a Russian station was calling me, so I missed that one, but conditions are right for me this weekend so I'm going to try more. My property is surrounded by 80 ft trees so I can't get ground gain on horizon, so very restrictive, but when the moon is up high I can have a shot at the moon. Definitely give it a try, having a txt exchange with someone bouncing off the moon is quite a thrill. Thanks for watching!

[@paultemple5566]

Excellent and inspirational

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you!!

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you!

[@UndernetSystems]

Very nice, seems pretty cool.

[@Greyline77]

Cool idea! This is hamradio 👌

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you! It's a lot of fun.

[@tianminglushang2307]

Very cool!!

[@davidkerl1431]

Congrats on your first EME contact! Just be careful, its very addictive. Dave N9HF

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you! I’ve done satellites and APRS thru the space station, but the moon comms is pretty incredible. Ed N1UHF

[@williampeacock9473]

Great job on putting everything together . Alot of good ideas . Thank you for doing the video of your station. 73 AE4OY WILLIAM EM-81UF

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you! 73, Ed N1UHF

[@CharlesMartel676]

NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE!!!!

[@michaelmichael8406]

This was exactly what I needed to see to get me started on my own EME station. Thank you. Are there any sites that people use for setting up a sched?

[@hamradiocomms]

I use HB9Q logger, put HB9Q into google to find his website, I'd send you a link but he often changes the link and it won't work. Click on EME QRP and it will bring you to the logger / chat so you can set up skeds. thanks for the comment and for watching! Good luck, it's a very rewarding part of the hobby!

[@michaelmichael8406]

@@hamradiocomms Excellent, thank you.

[@JohnDuncan0347]

Gives hope to us little guys.

[@cinescopefilms]

excellent!

[@hamradiocomms]

thank you, and thanks for watching!

[@Stuff_happens]

Have you made anymore QSOs since this? Like the setup. I am impressed you can use a yagi that close to the ground without issues.

[@hamradiocomms]

Hello.... I made one to Russia unscheduled and sched one to MA.. Between the little sky window i have, space and earth weather, time of night etc.. it's only about 1 or less days a month I have to try. I recently moved to a smaller lot and putting up antennas here. My 440 Yagi is unassembled, and I'm scoping out the moon movements. It looks like I have more moon time here, so I'm looking forward to getting the EME started again. As far as the distance off the ground, this is one of the reasons I chose 430mhz because the wavelength is so short, most of the antenna is 2 to 3 wavelengths from the ground. 2 or 6 meters would have to be much higher and each is well over 22" long so to aim it up it would have to be really higher anyway. .. so for portable i think 430 or 1.2g is the way to go..

[@qzorn4440]

nice video. I am starting out on a 21cm 1420 MHz radio telescope with a Nooelec GOES Weather Satellite Mesh Antenna - 21dBi Parabolic Antenna w/ 1.7GHz Center Frequency, 200MHz+ Bandwidth, LMR400 Feed Cable with Male SMA Connector 😎 The learning curve is exciting with a mixture of astronomy and HAM radio devices. 🥳 thanks.

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you! Sounds like a really nice station you are setting up. I always wanted to do moonbounce with 23cm so can use a satellite dish, so much gain!! I have books on radio astronomy, it's extremely interesting.... Good luck on your venture.

[@qzorn4440]

@@hamradiocomms thank you.

[@Tay-ky3fi]

subscribed! what would you need for half duplex voice? what about simple data transfer like winlink? thank you!

[@hamradiocomms]

Great question. It was always a dream of mine to do SSB EME when I heard a German station hearing his own echos on 1.2g crystal clear like a repeater.. he was using 1000 watts and a 30ft diameter dish in his backyard.. probably a $ 35K setup.. the amp came from a tv station. It depends on the band 2m vs 70cm vs 23cm etc.. but an educated guess would be 16 yagis 25ft each and 1000 watts might be able to hear your own echos and work other 2m stations same size.. maybe. Of course working bigger stations like i'm doing here, less would work, but still I'd say the cost would be extremely high compared to this portable station for JT-65.. probably in the $ 15 to 20K range to set it up.. that's why JT-65 is the normal mode now. CW requires a lot less than than SSB but 10 times or more power or antenna than JT-65. Winlink uses HF and the moon only works on VHF and above.

[@philnyc]

Great overall system setup indeed :) Did you ever echo your voice in SSB off the moon back to your station with this single antenna ? I quite wonder if would be possible or maybe with a stack of 4 it can be done ?

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you! Great question. No I wouldn't be able to, nor would 99% of the worlds EME operators! If I had to guess I'd say there are only about 30 or 40 stations if that, that can hear SSB voice echo back. Heres sort of a capability progression: My station now: me to largest stations in the world only, maybe 25 in the world, JT65 only. If i had 4 M2 antennas, and up the power to 400W instead of 100, then I can probably communicate with another station the same on JT-65. If we both upgraded to 8 antennas and 400W maybe CW. and this would be only about 1 or 2 day opportunities per month depending on space and earth weather. Only the largest stations on earth with tremendous power can do SSB.. a German station I made a contact with has I think 148 M2 antennas and KWatts of power as his station. He can do SSB, There is another German station on youtube that has a 1.2g 30ft diameter dish as big as a house in his backyard and a 1000W TV amplifier and has great SSB echos!! it sounds like he's on a repeater! Crazy.. and his echo comes back crystal clear about 2.6 seconds later.. amazing.

[@philnyc]

@@hamradiocomms Thank you very much for your indpeth reply. Very educational information for many of the viewers of ur channel who will read this. I was hopeful that a stack of 4 M2's for uhf and a 400W could do the job, let it even be twice a month. Something simpler and more convenient, just like your fantastic set up is. Do you plan to extend your setup into the stack of 4 and 400 Whiskey or othewise ? We'd love to see it :). For eme ssb theres hope in 23 cm ,but you have got to deal with atleast a 3.7m dish and a buncha other stuff. But 4 x M2 x 400W formula and installed portably (just you have),would a perfect recepie for eme ssb voice ops. There is another youtuber who went out to some gov't monster dish station,which is located out in the middle of nowhere in Colorado and they tried doing the voice echo on that station. The mission doesn't seem like it worked, even though it seems that it doesn't at all. So if they couldn't do it on that huge 100% govt style antenna ,then IDK. But on the other hand those fellas ,quite honestly did not seem very knowledgeble of what they were doing at all. At the hand of an experienced eme operator thing could off look very different in a very positive way. Link to that video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rquxqmydh9hsq6M

[@tonybalm1513]

Amateur radio at its very best great stuff....

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you for the nice comment and for watching!

[@R2DMD]

Awesome video and setup! I thought EME required more power. Thanks!

[@hamradiocomms]

Thank you! Yes only 75W min... JT-65 enables that, if CW probably 300W or so would be minimum... necessary equip would be: Sensitive transceiver, able to turn off AGC, external sound card device, pre-amp at antenna, linear amp (100W in radio won't work), low loss cable, 10ft min UHF antenna, 20ft min 2m antenna and a way to steer it, laptop with WSJT installed and setup. thanks for watching!

[@aurtisanminer2827]

hamradiocomms why wont a 100 watt amp that is built into a radio work?

[@KREllis-vr1ix]

@@aurtisanminer2827 my guess is that for a small setup like this, every db counts and there are going to be losses in the coax. Having an amp/preamp at the mast helps minimize these losses....and it means your transceiver doesn't have to work as hard. That's just my guess.

[@aurtisanminer2827]

K. R. Ellis usually the linear amp is right next to the radio. He only says the pre-amp is mounted at antenna. I think you have a point about the radio amp working so hard, though. Digital usually uses max power at a higher duty cycle than voice.

[@KREllis-vr1ix]

@@aurtisanminer2827 I agree about the linear amp location...if we are talking a normal EME setup. In this case, and one other I have seen on YT, the operators placed the amp as close to the antenna as possible. The other guy used a separate preamp. This OP had a preamp / amp combo unit. Another point, which may answer your original comment, is necessary power to complete a QSO via EME. The more the better, obviously...but 70 to 100 watts is generally considered QRP for moonbounce. You'll probably only be able to work the biggest stations with a single yagi at 70 or so watts.

[@Stuff_happens]

Maybe dumb questions, but here it goes. 1. You are only running 100w? 2. What software/method did you use to make the yagi? I’m having a hard time finding anything that will bring me past 5 elements.

[@hamradiocomms]

Hi, not a dumb question at all. I usually try to put an equipment list in my video notes, so I just added in the video notes. I was using 100W at the antenna. I didn't make the antenna, I'm using an M2 12 element yagi. From all of the videos and reading on EME antennas, most are purchased though a few are not. If I remember correctly, I read that it is extremely difficult to build EME antennas at 432 because of the extremely tight tolerances on all the dimensions necessary to get the max gain and 50ohm impedance for full power out. HRO was discontinuing this M2 recently for $170 I think not sure if there are more left. I did look at building one at first but like you I couldn't find one with enough gain, and the longest were for meteor and aurora, etc with 12db or so of gain. Good luck, it's so rewarding. Thanks for the question and for watching!

[@jeffgrey1566]

What are your coax specs? Maybe you can upgrade to some 1/2” superflex to minimize your losses.

[@aurtisanminer2827]

Looks like he was using LMR400 or something similar in size.

[@ferocious_r]

Would it be possible to listen in on people doing moon bounces, with a simple UV-K5(8), if I built myself an antenna setup like you show in this video? I don't have a license yet, so am not allowed to send, but I love t o search for signals. Something that came in via the moon would be amazing!

[@hamradiocomms]

It is pretty amazing to do.. yes and no amp needed to pick up signals. No the UV-K5 wouldn't be able to hear anything because 1. not sensitive enough 2. It doesn't have capabilities to do digital which is necessary for moonbounce at the power levels what is needed is a so called All Mode radio for 2m or 70cm that can do SSB or CW so you can hear those. However, to hear CW or SSB on that small antenna in my video the other station would have to have about 50 of my antennas together or bigger for CW or SSB. When the radio telescope at Aracebo gets on the air small antennas smaller than mine can hear them.

[@IgotQuestions.]

I didnt see on the vídeo the time of bouncing back Signal from the Moon But anyway , how much can cost in Europe allá the equipment for doing this experiment ? Thnx

[@hamradiocomms]

The contact i made was already changed by a new signal from Russia, I went to get my camera.. i didn't see him calling until i saw the video on my computer so I missed that contact. Now I stick around to see if anyone is calling after a contact. Not sure in Euros with VAT etc.. but in US about $1000 for a radio, $350 for antenna, $600 for amplifier, $150 cable, tripod or mounting for antenna $100, external sound card $125.. plus a laptop or computer.

[@discedoce1827]

hi, great setup. you said you need a big station at the other end for QSO. can you hear your own echo?

[@hamradiocomms]

Hello, thank you.. .. I'm not able to hear my own echo, a much larger station would be needed to do that, even on JT65 like I'm doing here. With optimal moon conditions, maybe a total of 4 antennas the size I'm using here and maybe 400 Watts, maybe more I'm not sure. There are calculators out there that take into account antenna gain, power, and mode, and earth and space weather, moon factors, etc to come up with a setup that would allow hearing echos. An even bigger station would be needed for CW, and massive in size for SSB. Thanks for the question and for watching.

[@discedoce1827]

hamradiocomms tnx fer info and again for sharing ur great station. maybe cu on eme. 73

[@kingb8943]

Cool but ytf did I get recommended this 4 years later

[@hamradiocomms]

You probably watched something the AI thought was related somehow and thereby aren’t many portable EME videos at all. , it happens to me all the time.

[@Dennis-nd5em]

How have you bbeen doing with this setup? Very inspiring, looking to do something very similiar to you, just create something i can roll out in the yard and play with here and there. I cant put a big old yagi up in my neighborhood the neighbors already think im a loon with my 160m dipole. Was going to start off on 2 tho (just because i already have a 2m amp). Please give us updates! your awesome. thanks.

[@hamradiocomms]

HI, thanks for the comments.. so far I made just the one contact, however after filming this video I looked at the screen and a station in Russia was trying to contact me.. so I missed that one! I'll soon make another contact or 2 before winter sets in and it becomes difficult with the cold and snow here in Maine. Adding to the normal challenges of a small station I'm surrounded by trees so my antenna can only "see" the moon when it's over 45 deg elevation on a pass. With all the variables there is only a day or so each month where it is possible to do it, then if it's a cloudy day it won't work because of the particles and moisture in the clouds blocks the small signal. This happened to me the past 3 times! I use a few online calendars to see how the moon conditions are for the coming weekend, and get ready to move the truck out of the garage, setup station in the garage and put the antenna out. Besides the conditions, there are about 20 things to get right in all the devices in the chain from setting up JT65 to radio parameters, and the cabling and antenna.. but it's all worth it! I initially was going to do 2m since it's easier for various reasons and more people on it, but I just couldn't store the 20ft or longer antenna required inside and I didn't want to leave it outside, so I went with 432mhz. There are probably 20 or so stations that I can work me on UHF, so that's one of the challenges too that one of them is available when all my conditions are met! whew 2m would be much easier in that respect since there would be many more stations around. Good luck on your quest it is quite an experience, and quite a thrill to txt someone from the moon. check out my website if you want to read more about it: www.n1uhf.com thanks for watching!

[@CharlesFockaert]

how do you know the waves are bouncing off the moon? why can't they bounch off the firmament? Ps. 19:1

[@hamradiocomms]

There are many ways to determine this… one way is if a person is in Europe and another in the US, the moon is the only object far enough to see the waves on both sides of the earth… also any echos a station hears of itself takes about 2.5 seconds… radio waves travel same as speed of light about 186,000 miles per second moon is average 226000 miles away, there and back 452000 miles or 2.43 seconds same as the moon bounce signal returning. Anything else in space like satellites or space station reflection can’t see both parties at once to communicate

[@CharlesFockaert]

@@hamradiocomms there is no space. It's all fake. EMWaves bounce off the firmament. Prove me wrong.

[@Cheeseoverdose]

Wow I thought you would need to have a lot more gain to do that

[@hamradiocomms]

With JT-65 and super stations out there very small stations are possible to use on moon-bounce. For Voice or CW no way, you'd need a lot more. Thanks for watching.

[@views-re2om]

I don't have any fucking clue what all these 🤪🤷🤷🤷🙄🙄