Portal 2's paradoxical self-powering setups

[@ldidok]

Enabling a laser once the laser hits its own receiver is cool, but disabling the laser on the other hand...

[@kip258]

Block the laser with a cube

[@nerdlington7655]

obviously what the other guy said

[@kip258]

Oh do you mean a laser receiver disables the laser that is hitting it? That would create an infinite loop of the laser consantly turning on and off and would make a really annoying noise. I don't know if it would even be useful for any puzzles... 🤔

[@fishydids]

@@kip258 I mean the stasis level in the video is an example of how something that constantly alternates between off and on can be useful to solve a level, so a self-disabling laser could work as well.

[@antonliakhovitch8306]

@@kip258 Yep, you've just made an oscillator! Add a slight delay to the signal, and you can control exactly how frequently the laser turns itself on and off again. Circuits like this (without lasers though) are used in a LOT of electronics

[@ARockRaider]

If I'm not mistaken, in electronics this is known as a "latch" and it's very common to have a relay hold itself on, in this way a momentary button can be used to activate a system, then another button can be used to shutdown that system. Lore wise in the game, a laser pointing at the receiver isn't "powering itself" it's just triggering the sensor that tells the facility to turn it on.

[@Minecraftgnom]

That's what I was thinking about. It seems more like a latch than anything. And I was extremely confused at first by the implications of perpetual motion... xD

[@comet.x]

we have successfully created a bit. now to create a cpu architecture using portal lasers

[@CrazyPlayer-pf2hv]

Latching relay, mrmattandmrchay

[@anchorbubba]

YES i am studying this and this was covered a while ago

[@anchorbubba]

@@comet.x lol yeah the foundation of logic

[@daskampffredchen]

I think calling it Self Activating is better then call it self powering I could hook up a laser diode to a phototransistor but the power would still be from somewhere else

[@17Beastmode17]

I always thought the laser receiver and relays were just switches, with the laser being powered elsewhere, so it's not powering itself, but just keeping itself turned on

[@TheBaldrickk]

Indeed, they are just logic components. And anyone who has done electronics knows that logic chips require a power supply, not just the logic input.

[@scottyyay]

just pretend hes saying activating instead of powering

[@Mikeastro]

I was just going for some nice alliteration in the video title :|

[@tateparker7782]

@@Mikeastro but you also said the laser was powering itself and generating extra power in the video itself

[@vyor8837]

@@tateparker7782 repeatedly

[@dolphiner7003]

7:31 wow it me. Fantastic video as always, I'm quite jealous at how intuitively and concisely you can explain these kinds of concepts in your videos, and your enthusiasm makes it all the more entertaining to watch, even as someone who knows all of this already! Looking forward to more :D

[@mikechu01]

I've always seen it as just a simple emitter/ detector instead of it powering itself, like how a light detector would keep a lightbulb lit from its own light. It's not powering the bulb, but its the detector that's saying to give the bulb power

[@brendensmith3083]

Excellent vid! It's called bootstrapping because of the bootstrap paradox, coined from an old time travel novel where a man gave his past self a bootstrap. Where did the future self get it? From himself, of course. This is the same paradox as the Song of Storms in Ocarina of Time.

[@ZizzleTheKakapo]

A scene like this happens in milo murpheys law: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4qbfpiwiauLZtU

[@isabellev9576]

The use of bootstrap also refers to the expression "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps,” which essentially means an impossible task since it requires one to lift their whole body weight into the air completely unaided. That’s where the term comes from in the sci-fi story you’re referencing.

[@LineOfThy]

so... where did it come from? that is the question

[@Quantum_Physician]

i thought it was from pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, another impossible feat

[@ThePenisMan]

@@Quantum_Physician more like impossible feet amirite ahahaha please laugh I need this

[@protoborg]

Actually, the power for the laser is coming form the main reactor that powers the entire facility. The laser catcher is just allowing the laser to activate. Think of the connection to the laser as a transistor. The laser catcher is in essence holding the switch open that is inline with the laser. When the catcher is activated, it closes the switch allowing the current to flow into the laser powering it. If the catcher is blocked, it breaks the circuit and the laser shuts off. Thus, this "device" does NOT violate an laws of physics.

[@decb.7959]

This reminds me of some of the puzzles in the talos principle, which are also about carefully managing elements' dependencies on each other.

[@V13STOP]

Wow! Even with 200 hours on portal 2 I'm still learning new things. This mechanic just shows how many things you can do in this game. For a long time I didn't feel that satisfaction of learning something new! My favourite one was the one with the funnel and the cube holding the gel in place.

[@AzoraeSpeedruns]

Very cool video! Glad that my maps are still providing a fun challenge after all this time. Thanks for the spotlight.

[@Portal2Player]

Thank you for making these videos. I've just recently got back into playing Portal 2 a lot and have been playing a lot of Community chambers, designing puzzles, and watching your videos to get some ideas of what to use in my puzzles.

[@Pixelhurricane]

I have a completely original thought that *no one else* in the comments has figured out or copied endlessly! The laser isn't powering itself, it's just a switch keeping it turned on!

[@Mikeastro]

No way! Thanks for telling me about this o_O I never knew

[@mika_tastrophe]

Great video as always! It's always cool to see so many unique examples for these mechanics. I went into this video being fairly familiar with laser bootstrapping and having heard of funnel bootstrapping before, but never thinking about all the other creative variations (although most of those also included a laser, but hey, still cool). I really appreciate how that makes these videos interesting to puzzle designers of basically all levels of experience, because it's explained clearly enough to make complete novices understand while still being detailed and interesting for experts too. Neat intro too, leads nicely into the video topic!

[@santiagosenoran1217]

the lasers not making damage is such a good change that I didn't know I would like that much. also I love this video because it reminds me of veritasium explaining physics but in a fictional world with it's own rules, and it's very interesting to consider the implication of this excersices applied to hypotetical real world portals

[@icaro8264]

cool

[@SpielSatzFail]

10:12 someone once called this the "Indiana Jones switcheroo", and I love it 🥰

[@MrPointness]

Yes!!

[@baroncosmos6545]

Your test chambers are so cool and I love using them to inspire myself to make new tests.

[@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606]

Glad0s is pleased with your contributions.

[@Maxwell_Twist]

The bootstrap paradox has nothing to do with the phrase "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps." It was named after the book "By his bootstraps," where the main character gives their past self a book that they think is important because someone gave it to them, leading to the character thinking it's important and eventually leading them giving it to their past self because they think it's important. The paradox is about where the book came from and why the character thought it was important. The only answer we have is that the book came from their future self and that's also why it's important. So, we're stuck in an infinite loop, but we have no clue how the infinite loop started.

[@Mikeastro]

You are right, that's probably the true reason it's called like that. For some reason I had always thought it came from the expression in the sense that the act of successfully ''pulling yourself up by your bootstraps'' would imply some sort of impossible energy loop as we see with for example the lasers, but the connection with the causal paradox from the book is much more likely to have been the true source. My bad D:

[@Maxwell_Twist]

@@Mikeastro No worries, mate. Just an honest mistake. I doubt many people like looking into paradoxes in the first place.

[@MichaelDarrow-tr1mn]

but isn't the book named after the phrase

[@OrlandoTiquim]

It's love how with each video we learn new obscure and genius ways to explore the mechanics of this game, and tysm for covering them!! 7:01 doesn't P2 Coop have something like that? 🤔

[@teamspen210]

It does indeed, Art Therapy Chamber 6 is focused around a light bridge + laser cube bootstrap.

[@NinF37]

Incredibly well made and love your explanations!! ❤

[@MartinHindenes]

Imagine a water power plant. At the bottom, just after the power turbine, you place a portal on the floor to flush the water. On the wall of the water dam at the top, you place the other portal. Infinite energy.

[@woodengalaxy4476]

I've just realised I've used a version of a bootstrap in my map "the laser platform test", so thank you for making this video and helping people like me understand more on how to use these elements!

[@camerson1313]

Many a puzzler has bootstrapped a bootstrap. Lasers, bridges, and funnels galore. But of all bootstraps, there is one yet unknown. A treasurous bootstrap more shiny than all: Ye old golden Energy Pellet Bootstrap, the holy grail of all bootstraps. One day I shall find you, my precious.

[@shawermus]

If we had map editor for portal 1 we could do that easily without having to make a whole mod

[@gamertypeawesome]

@@shawermus hammer

[@shawermus]

@@gamertypeawesome I mean, hammer it's tedious to use and especially to share maps. So there will be less experiments and custom maps

[@mariobot128]

@@shawermus i mean, most of the maps showcased in this video were probably made using hammer anyway

[@shawermus]

@@mariobot128 yes but again, people barely make custom maps for portal 1

[@reddcube]

Definitely need to mention 'The Talos Principle'

[@solutionchanneliguess2899]

I know you've already heard this but I'll leave it here for other players to read: The bootstraps in this video are very well-described, and are very helpful to understand; it's great that you spent time on all kinds of different bootstraps, (especially the cube-dropper one) given that we often see a passive association with lasers. One 'sub-genre' of bootstraps that's lightly referenced in this video are mechanical ones that involve a longer autonomous sequence; e.g. see Mevious' Stasis at ~5:28. If bootstraps are read as circular logic, there's no limit on how many steps that logic can include, which can lead to long, self-perpetuating machines that cycle through a variety of connections/movements. One of Mevious' most recent three maps (as of writing) contains a shorter version of one of these that's a little more complicated than Stasis, but I won't spoil which one it is, and I encourage players to go find it!

[@wufarino]

Just want to point out that portals don't create perpetual motion machines but only allow us to continuously harvest the effect of gravity for continuous acceleration until terminal velocity

[@TChapman500Gaming]

Love this series. And bootstrapping was one of the first laser mechanics that I became familiar with wile watching KZbinrs like LB and Nock. I can't say that I've ever used this in any serious attempt at making a puzzle though. Probably because I dislike the mechanic. But bootstrapping does make latches very easy to implement when using Puzzle Maker, especially when using lasers. But when creating logic blocks that are supposed to be behind the scenes, bootstrapping a laser to its own receiver is a good way to not be able to turn off something that needs to be turned off.

[@Doctor_Hyde]

I have a level called Gel Storage that uses the funnel polarity technique. cool to see it here too

[@theliopleurodon]

I'm pretty sure theres a chamber in Portal Stories Mel which uses this concept but only slightly. Theres one where it powers itself and you need to block it with a cube in order for a portalable panel to open from the wall so you can then move the lazer with portals

[@Timmytimmy123123]

6:58 That's some really great puzzle design

[@shadowblood95]

This is the strangest Redstone video I've ever seen.

[@joezephyr]

Excellent thank you! As a result of this video, I just solved a Mike Astro map!

[@sciencekat4874]

this is so cool! portal map makers never fail to surprise me!!!

[@LordBakon]

The light bridge example is actually in the co op courses

[@cassandradawn780]

the receiver doesn't power the laser, it acts like a transistor/switch.

[@hansdietrich83]

That's basically how a self holding relay works in real life electronics

[@zport1853]

To solve the map shoot the laser through you portal to the end back at the relay so all you have to do is move portals to close the circuit

[@ten0re0re]

This is used a lot in Talos Principle, I actually devised the bootstrap concept just by playing the game and gave it the same name.

[@username5155]

Hey, I was playing a Portal 2 community chamber set (one of the really nice ones made in Hammer), and I came across a button next to a portalable that powers an inverted funnel which is aimed at another portalable wall, and my brain went “haha funny bootstrap” so I aimed the funnel at the button and stepped onto it, activating the funnel, picking me up, unpressing the button, deactivating the funnel, putting me down, etc., and it was a funny little experience. But then after a little bit of oscillation, I began to float directly upwards for a good 2 seconds. I did some more testing, and it seemed like stepping fully off the button/getting pulled fully off the button whilst bootstrapping myself would cause this to happen. I made a quicksave whilst in the air from this because I thought it would be funny if I picked up the game later and was confused at what was happening. However, about a minute later I messed up the puzzle and, not wanting to restart, reloaded my quicksave from when I was floating, and then I found out I had somehow just done a glitch that feels like it’s somehow related to the crouch fly glitch yet not the same glitch because I kept going up and up and up. It might just be community maps being weird, but it might be replicatable in other chambers unless Valve patches it. I haven’t seen anyone online specifically mention inverted funnels at all, so if this isn’t just a map glitch (which, if it is, it’s a very odd one), that may explain its obscurity. Update: Just tested on a test map, and it works, although the exact trigger isn’t what I first thought, so just kinda try a few times until it happens. It might just be my install being weird, because I’ve never heard about this before. Update 2: Hypothesis proven: it does not seem to work with non-inverted funnels. Update 3: Whilst testing, I also found a bug where you can quickload a save from a community map after having exited it and entered the level builder. Quite odd. (Also, no, you can’t quicksave in the level builder, so you can’t use it to cheat) Update 4: It doesn’t work when the inverted funnel is above you or far away horizontally, so I think it’s an interaction with portals.

[@Mikeastro]

Fascinating find!

[@username5155]

@@Mikeastro Thank you! It could be a very interesting use for inverted funnels so long as it’s not just an issue with my install.

[@sethseth6ify]

The Talos Principle has quite a few puzzles that are based on bootstrapping from what I remember

[@Epic_747]

aperture then created... the bootstrap device

[@gJonii]

This video made me think if portal needs more redstone components, or minecraft needs more aperture equipment.

[@nerdlington7655]

Cool video. I thought the demo map for this one was especially sleek as well. Thanks for taking the time to make these and help untangle some of the madness that is puzzle design for a wider audience.

[@mcbaws21]

cool video, just came up in my recommended. im def gonna check out some of those maps

[@spookyfrogs1874]

my brain is too small to solve any of these puzzles but wow this was so interesting, great video

[@CoolDudeClem]

I wish I had the ability to think outside of the box like this.

[@Math4e]

I used a similar idea to the light bridge bootstrapping in my map "3. Thinking with Light Bridges" (around I believe when I bought Portal 2). It had some nice moves to it but the design was terrible. Were you one of the people who I tortured by asking them to play it? :)

[@Mikeastro]

Hmmhmm I cannot remember! Was I perhaps?

[@Math4e]

@@Mikeastro I'm not sure. I remember I was excited and asked everyone in my friends list. God bless any poor soul who was in my friends list at that time! By the way thanks for the great content! I really like that you mention several good maps in each video like a home work but an exciting one :)

[@opliz2383]

I saw this kind of thing in minecraft too By putting a lantern under gravel, they support eachother, the gravel is not falling because the lantern is under the gravel (which would fall) Anyways i wrote this whole essay because i can't remember how a relationship like this is called (tell me)

[@jakeread9668]

Have you tried any Talos principle community maps? There are some genius uses of this concept in a lot of the more complicated ones

[@Mikeastro]

Only a few, but I should definitely play more!

[@slyceth]

I bootstrapped my shoes before leaving this morning

[@itsgeegra]

I cannot get over 5:00, just perfect, such an elegant hing

[@TheAmazingHerosquad]

One time I found out that you can glitch a laser cube into not falling from a dropper if you aim a laser via a portal before it falls

[@one_for_one]

This video inspired me to make a bunch of maps using bootstapping to program elements in the vanilla editor. If you want to check them out, or improve apon them with mod tools, my name on the workshop is the same as my comment name without the underscores

[@whyiwakeup6460]

this makes my brain hurt a lot

[@BlueKeyAnimations]

I don't like the "um actually"s from some commenters. It's a thought experiment. It's fun. Fuck the lore for just one video.

[@MrGermandeutsch]

I wouldn't say that some or most of them can be considered "paradoxical" as the title claims them to be, but I do get the gist of the concept, which even some of the original Portal 2 Tests have applied as well.

[@slyceth]

10:18 actually my map "Highway Test Chamber" does EXACTLY this, cube bootstrap swap button thing. Did you not play it or put it in the video?

[@klaus.sfc01official30]

Ok i rarely use bootsstraps but my next map might be an exception i am not sure yet though (working on a no portal sendificator map)

[@NoahGooder]

bootstrapping is used in compiling the c++ and c compilers.

[@Azure_Gust931]

5:59 The game doesn't break when you do that? wow😂

[@darkrozen4110]

How about a turret bootstrap? It would be funny if you showed a picture of your pet badger and named it mike das. Also BOOT STRAP in PING PORTAL 2 cool video

[@hearteyedgirl]

now can we have a video talk about excursion funnel centralize all things contacted and help staking a perfect tower of reflective cubes or drag cube Perpendicularly to the funnel by using this mechanic

[@admiralrhino4049]

Reminds me of a ridiculous scene from totally spies 🤣

[@Mikeastro]

I think I remember that scene hahaha >_< Man that brings back memories

[@admiralrhino4049]

@@Mikeastro found it! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJO3h2eDZbKIpas

[@Mikeastro]

@@admiralrhino4049 Yep, that was it haha. Beautiful :'D

[@donutstand]

this video is like when you watched math videos in high school that used the topic you learned and explained how that topic is used in quantum mechanics

[@jakebocaj]

Is the black cube special in any way or it simply a color change to make it easy tell the difference

[@Mikeastro]

Just a colour change so that you don't accidentally forget which cube came from which dropper :]

[@klaus.sfc01official30]

Another good video (the cursed laser screenshot returned lol) next video about cube swaps ? lol

[@leroytrailer2]

Can you trap a lightbridge/laser beam between two portals, away from its source?

[@Mikeastro]

Good question! You can't, sadly, but it would have allowed for some interesting logic :]

[@TS_Mind_Swept]

Not exactly "powering themselves", but neat concepts nonetheless

[@denifnaf5874]

The bootstrap device epistle

[@nhaedzwero43]

I definitely did Mevious' map wrong...

[@machinerin151]

The thumbnail is clickbait. You never showed what happens if you aim 3 cubes at each other in a closed loop and try to bootstrap them to light each other up with a laser, and then take away the laser

[@Mikeastro]

Because it doesn't work, sadly, but still I think it conveys the idea quite clearly

[@buttersddragon]

ok but uh ... why couldn't you have just used the black cube for the other button? is that just something in the level editor or like a modded thing?

[@Mikeastro]

Exactly which situation in the video are you referring to?

[@Guhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh]

I feel like youtubers with a non American accent are so much better at commentary is it just me

[@podiacider]

How did that laser not hurt him at 2:55

[@SiIIy_]

A lot of mappers disable that simply because it’s annoying

[@sagetarus1]

5:50 omg, they made alternating current in portal lmfao

[@rogercheetoofficial]

I thought the bootstrap analogy was a reference to the bootstrap paradox, wherein an object or person travels back in time to cause its own presence in the future, essentially existing without an origin or ending point

[@matthewkeen6281]

nice,

[@yndranth]

great video! Honestly watching your videos makes me want to make my own chambers. Although I doubt it'd go well :/ Not being able to use BEE would make it go even worse.

[@Mikeastro]

Thanks for watching! You don't need BEE to make great chambers, but it does help. Why can't you use BEE?

[@yndranth]

@@Mikeastro linux

[@notimportant768]

The laser bootstraps can be explained in universe as the laser simply activating a contactor or something instead of being a full on power source.

[@drumman22]

How is this anything like a perpetual machine though. The laser isn't powering itself, it's just turning on a switch that turns itself on, the power likely comes from somewhere else. Pretty sure this is useful in electronics somewhere

[@MannFace51]

Boot strap in ping portal 2

[@cheesepop7175]

its like repeaters in minecraft

[@ivanstepanov6301]

wait, did they patch the cube one?

[@bomberpalmer6917]

I am confused as to the point of the video. None of these machanics are powering themselves, they are all just switches that turn on the device that has an external power source. Like if you have a light sensor connected to a light bulb circuit the light turns on the circuit but the power is supplied by the grid.

[@_Funtime60]

The laser emitter is wall mounted. Unless lore states otherwise, the power is likely coming from an external source. The "receiver" could also just be a detector as well.

[@Retrad_]

these aren't "infinite energy" tho, like the thumbnail is, it's like flicking a switch and going "oh my, this little thing can power an entire steel mill" while it's actually powered by the local powerplant, and, these are signals not power

[@draa0gon]

BOOT STRAP in PING PORTAL 2

[@cordellsmith1523]

All of these things gave something in common, they come from the wall, a wall that is attached to a power room that has enough juice to power a 30’ robot that hangs from the ceiling and formulates advanced puzzle scenarios in a real life testing facility. If I’m not mistaken, that would be where the energy comes from.

[@chadyways8750]

Here's a question, is the laser receiver a power generator or just a switch

[@AmalgamJiena]

They dont power the things, they just activate them; the test chambers already have power supplied

[@xdarin_]

Why does your laser cube look like it's made in SRC2? Also, how do you enable the laser cube direction indicator?

[@Mikeastro]

I use a mod called BEEMod that allows you to do these kinds of things; I would recommend you look at it!

[@xdarin_]

@@Mikeastro Interesting. I should really check out the Portal 2 mod community.

[@kreuner11]

I was able to use the portal map maker and lasers to create simple logic circuits

[@andre_601]

I think people misunderstand the lasers a bit here... From what I know are they not considered a "power source". Otherwise, how do you explain a button being enough to power them initially? It's much more likely that there is an external power source that is connected through the laser receiver(s) with the laser itself, meaning that a closed circuit is created once the receivers detect a laser. Like imagine a battery. It is connected to a switch which is enabled once a light detector receives a light. The output of that switch goes to a lightbulb and then back to the battery to have a closed circuit. Initially, the bulb isn't glowing because the circuit is cut, but if we briefly make a closed circuit (i.e. by sending energy from the battery through a button to the bulb) will it light up, activate the light detector, which closes the loop and therefore creates an infinite cycle for as long as the switch is active and the battery has power. The laser being a source of energy makes no real sense here.

[@GemsZone]

Is there deference between self-powering and self-activating?

[@Mikeastro]

I've kind of blurred the difference between the two to allow me to get some nice alliteration going in the video title :]

[@ComfyCherry]

this is just a relay that loops back on itself keeping it active, this is not perpetual motion or self powered. if I get a light sensor that turns on a light when triggered then it would not turn off unless I broke that loop but the power doesn't come from the light or the sensor..

[@theendofthestart8179]

am i too late to submit my map?

[@Mikeastro]

Sadly yes, but you can still join the discord to get feedback on your work!

[@nicogeronimo3442]

Finally thx ????????

[@Mikeastro]

You're welcome ????????

[@smileyp4535]

Ah yes, Bootstrapping, that thing scientists joke about because of how impossible it is and also the thing you have to do in order to succeed under capitalism, good thing we don't use capitalism as an economic system and tell people it's not only viable long term but the best system possible, because that would be horrifying 🙃

[@ThenamesC]

Yeah uh, idk if you're being sarcastic, but this is a videogame, and "bootstrapping" is being used as an example.

[@smileyp4535]

@@ThenamesC yes I'm making a joke lol