Ported vs Passive Radiators - Which Wins?

[@MitchellBlackmon]

keep up with the content love it !!

[@johnmoreno5965]

Man i missed out! Please keep this up! This channel is very educational and informative

[@SocialClubSound]

Thanks, will do! I plan on doing another giveaway when I hit 5k

[@jeffsloane8628]

Love the idea of this video and that you place in laymen's terms, but you mist a few things. 1) It's all about mass. Wether it is the mass of the air in the port or the mass of the passive radiator, it is the back wave of the driver interacting with this tuned mass that produces the "extra" frequency amplitude over a sealed enclosure design. 2) The air in the port is not "pushed out" of the enclosure or port. The mass of air is oscillating in and out of the port. While flares can help, it is the speed of the air in the port that causes chuffing. 3) The passive radiator is not releiving pressure from within the cabinet. It is reacting to the back wave of the active driver and the mass of the air volume within the cabinet. 4) In my experience the volume of the enclosure taken up by a passive radiator is less than that taken up by the port of equal frequency tuning. Niggles I know, but to those who want to really understand these are critical. Thumbs up!

[@jessicaembers924]

What i like about ported enclosures is the cooling effect on the woofer, and dual ports to be specific. One above the woofer, and one below, or a side loaded slot port. That can SAVE You from a total burn out! Musician vs Audiophile take #2

[@TeaklyOfficial]

Wish you had a similar sealed cabinet of the same size to show the comparison.

[@SocialClubSound]

If I was made of money or had a sponsor sending me parts I'd love to. It's hard to do it all when it's all out of pocket.

[@emmet7208]

@@SocialClubSound I suppose you could just plug the port on the vented speaker to turn it into a sealed box!

[@ConorHanley]

@@SocialClubSound That's nice for someone if not me as I live in the UK and can't think you'll be shipping free speakers outside the US. Such is life.

[@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS]

It was my opinion also that there's no need necessarily to double the surface area with passives. If say you have a 7-in woofer with 7 mm x-max and you have a passive that can do 15 mm x-max. Or maybe you have a 5-in woofer and you put a 6 and 1/2-in passive that has more x-max. The reason why I would prefer less passive weed eaters is less holes in the box to lose structural rigidity and the passive radiators can be more easily hidden if you can put one in the back versus one on each side where they're vulnerable

[@SocialClubSound]

Right! Same page. Thanks for watching and for your comment

[@frankklemm1471]

Both a port and a passive radiator move, roughly speaking, four times the air volume of the main loudspeaker. With double the stroke, this still means twice the surface area.

[@upitshak]

Hi, for a bookshlef speaker with 6.5" woofer which passive radiator fits?

[@SocialClubSound]

If you have a 6.5" woofer, the general rule is related to xmax. For instance if your passive radiator has the same xmax as the woofer, then you need two 6.5" passive radiators. But if the xmax on the passive is double the xmax on the woofer, then you only need one 6.5" passive radiator. Hope that helps!

[@emmet7208]

I would like a listening impressions video, I've heard some say Passive Radiators can have a latency because of the mass of the PR, wondering if that is your experience! I would love to play with PR's but they are soo expensive where I live! I can port a speaker for orders of magnitude less money!

[@SocialClubSound]

Someone else just asked for the time domain waterfall plots for each so I uploaded them and put links in the description of this video. The passive radiator plays cleaner and you can see the effect of some port overhang at the resonant frequency. Check the description and let me know what you see in the graphs.

[@emmet7208]

@@SocialClubSound Down at 40 Hz it does have a slower decay, but with a 28 foot long bass wave, is it audible in room?

[@PaoloPiovesan]

any chance you can show the time domain charts, that is the most interesting one, the frequency respose alone is not enough to judge the bass behaviour in the room

[@SocialClubSound]

I just added links in the description to the time domain charts for each speakers' in-room response. Hope that helps! You can see some port overhang on the ported design at the resonant frequency and it seems to be cleaner with the passive radiator.

[@frankklemm1471]

The frequency response of a passive radiator is worse than that of a ported speaker. The reason for this is the stiffness of the passive radiator. This leads to a zero point in the frequency response and a steeper drop-off in the lower range. This effect can be reduced by using extremely softly suspended passive diaphragms, preferably without a spider (as the spider provides most of the stiffness). Apart from the cost of a good passive diaphragm, this is the main disadvantage of a passive diaphragm.

[@ferdinandsanchez7040]

say i have a single 8" sub, and two 8" passive radiators, sub spec says 0.50~0.75 ft3 for ported, what would be your recommended net internal volume?

[@SocialClubSound]

You can follow the same internal recommendations as for ported but remember to account for the displacement from the Passives. So the same range of enclosure would work for both ported and passive radiators. So you can get away with a bit smaller volume since he passives won't likely displace as much space as a port would. The lower the tuning the bigger the box is traditionally the rule of thumb but you can get away with slightly smaller since the displacement is typically less. Hope that helps clarify

[@klegz1]

Love your channel, great videos and fantastic builds

[@SocialClubSound]

Thank you! Glad you're enjoying them. Please make sure to enter the contest for the VC-7S if you didn't already. Thanks!

[@JeanBernal]

Thanks for the information, love your videos!

[@SocialClubSound]

Thanks for watching!

[@johnhoffman2355]

I just purchased a "vintage " yamaha yhb-a8 speaker box. I was disappointed that it appeared to be missing the downward firing sub. After further research it actually is missing a 10" passive radiator. It has 2 8 in drivers and two 5 in horns, rated at 400w. The orginal radiator resonse was between 40-20khz. I ordered the earthquake slaps mv10-v2 to replace the missing radiator. Do you think the will bring this 30 yr old box back to life? Will that low wattage move that cone? Or should i have gone something cheaper/thinner and easier to move?

[@dtwistrewind7361]

You don't need twice the cone area of the passive, that is misinformation what you need is twice the xmax of the active driver if you have an 8 inch active with 4mm xmax you can use and 8 inch passive with a 8mm xmax.

[@Alkatross]

He already said the xmax thing in the video.

[@dtwistrewind7361]

@@Alkatross yeah I should have watched the whole thing first👍

[@SocialClubSound]

I thought I mentioned that in the video

[@kevinhamlett1400]

I went 8 inch Descend DN8 it sounds great has two 8 inch passive radiators and is very small. The sub and two passive radiators barely fit in the box with the amp.

[@SocialClubSound]

Nice! I bet the bass is nice and tight!

[@rawux1228]

Maybe smaller cabinet for passive would have worked even better as more pressure builds up in the box to move passive radiator

[@SocialClubSound]

Yeah you can play with the size of the box to help control the woofer better just make sure you have the room in your passive radiator's X-Max! Thanks for your comment

[@johndough8115]

I know that these Sound Graphs, are supposed to tell you a lot about the accuracy of the drivers.. BUT... Ive also felt that its not giving the whole picture. For example... its easy for a speaker to play a single instrument / soundwave... with almost zero micro-distortions. However... if you play something very complex and dynamic... with a lot of instruments and vocals all playing at the same time... the speaker / drivers can struggle to keep up the Musical Signals Demands. Something like Disco.. like Earth Wind and Fire, is a very good test... to see just how well your speakers can handle so many layers of sounds... to see if they can still maintain SEPERATION of all of the instruments and vocals. With mid to poor quality drivers... the sounds often blend into each other... and create a flatter / muddied sound. You end up losing a lot of detail, clarity, and separation... as well as alter the originally intended 3d Soundstage. As far as Bass Goes (which is ultimately what I was leading up too) ... its again, hard to convey the differences, with a mere Frequency Sweep. If you played some decently loud and dynamic music... then the differences would likely be much more Apparent to the Listener. Especially, if they heard some Port Chuff, heh. Some of the most Incredibly powerful, and clean bass that Ive every heard, came from a Phillips Boom Box, that had a very UNIQUE passive radiator, called a "WOOX". If you look up photos of the WOOX taken out of the speaker... you will see that there are actually 2 of these special woox "cones", spaced apart about 1 inch from each other... mounted to a hollow frame (allowing air to pass between them). Unlike standard Passives.. which only have one Surround Ring for movement / expansion... The woox has like, two or three expansion rings. This allows it to expand much further than a typical passive, without ever distorting (due to over-extension issues). I had bought the Phillips boom box.. and was amazed at the Bass performance of it (the other drivers... not so much. They are decent, but nowhere near Audiophile level... and can be a little hot/harsh). The system used 6.5" woofers. When they developed Foam Rot... I tried to test a few other boom box woofers into them... but NONE of them sounded good at all (including a sony woofer). It wasnt even close. The originals were leagues better, in every way... So I researched the Original Woofers, via Part numbers, and other details. I learned that they came from a high end audio company, in Taiwan, called Easttech, I believe. I believe I read that Phillips specifically had them designed and build... to have greater "Travel" than most typical woofers... to prevent over-excursion distortions. This greater excursion abilities, also likely helped move this Woox units much easier / better. Even at the max volume that the Boom Box was able to put out, I couldnt get those speakers to show any bass distortions at all. I even hooked them up to my Large Surround Amp... and even at volumes threatening to blow them... the Bass was powerful and Clean as a whistle. Unfortunately, my particular woox devices, were made with foam surrounds (I believe they also made a clear plastic version... but I didnt get lucky enough to find those)... and they eventually rotted out. Since they were so custom, there was no way to repair them. I had thought about trying to make my own woox, using different surround kits.. but I never got the chance... and had to leave them behind, when I moved + downsized. According to what Ive seen / heard... a lot of speakers that use Passives, use one size up, compared to the woofers. Meaning... if you were using 8 inch woofers.. I believe they used either a 10" passive, or a 12" passive. That said.. Ive also seen speakers that used the same size woofer as the passive. I can only assume that they may have some special things going on, internally.. to prevent over-extension. And or, that the passive is unique... with a greater travel ability, than most. Anyway... Ive always wanted to see someone try to record a part a section of a high-dynamic song, at a decent volume level.. and compare the frequency readings between... one speaker, and the Other. I feel like this would give a whole other level of performance data, that goes far beyond a simple frequency sweep. Also, Id LOVE too see someone replicate the WOOX device, but on a larger scale... for larger speakers. I was considering buying surround rings for 12", and rings that would fit inside of them... and using some sort of material to connect them. But I never got the chance to try. I will add, that I have two sets of speakers, from the same Company... where one has 6.5" woofers... and the other has 8" woofers... and while the 6.5" woofer speakers sound decent... they cant compare to the 8" woofers. Ive always wondered why companies choose to use such small diameter woofers on their tower speakers. I know that they can be "Faster" theoretically... but.. if you are using very high powered (very strong magnets) drivers, then you probably dont have to worry about them keeping up the pace/acceleration.

[@HighlandStudio91]

Well....Adam Audio just brought resolve to the expense factor of passive radiator designs. Their new D3V monitors have a dual passive radiator design and they sound i-n-c-r-e-d-i-b-l-e!! Their LF drivers are only 3.5" and yet, they have the low end of a speaker twice the size and they are only $300 for the pair! That said...there are no disadvantages to speak of, with regard to passive radiator monitors(as Adam Audio have cut the cost of such a design, so beautifully.) I've been monitor-crazy for the last 17 years(since I've transitioned into PC recording) and I've owned too many different brands of monitors to mention here and I have NEVER heard anything like the D3V's(particularly at this low price point.) I could just go on & on with my high praise of these magnificent monitors and I implore every bedroom studio producer out there to check these puppies out!

[@SocialClubSound]

I'll try and listen to a pair when I get a chance! Thanks for your comment

[@nimagenelec-pq7to]

what is your recommendation for speaker cable brand with tight banana plug?

[@SocialClubSound]

I really like Amphion's hand made cables. They're silver-coated hand-braided-copper cable with top-shelf banana tips. They were always very snug for me!

[@nimagenelec-pq7to]

@@SocialClubSound 🙏👍

[@nimagenelec-pq7to]

@@SocialClubSound 🙏👍

[@nimagenelec-pq7to]

@@SocialClubSound 🙏👍

[@nicolaihalby]

Don't understand how anybody can claim that passive radiators have a tighter more accurate response. You literally have a heavy slow cone, that is being pushed by the air inside the cabinet. Air can compress. A proper sealed enclosure with the right woofer can definitely give a tighter response, but the passive radiators are mucking things up, and also out of phase. There are applications where a passive is the way to go. For instance if you design a smallish subwoofer, and need to push it really low, there are restrictions that makes a long port impossible, and also just adding more active woofers since the motor structure takes a lot of space. One other advantage of port is the cooling of the drivers voicecoil. If you have the size and ability, you can go with a transmission line design for a really deeeep bass. Another possibility, but maybe not the most used is an isobaric design. Oh and the correct way (which most manufacturers ignore) to build with passive radiators is to have twice the cone area of the active. Also when a manufacturer use passives where they actually could have just used more active, the 1 save a lot of money, since it's really really cheap to make a passive radiator compared to a similar active, and 2 they save on making another frequency cut in the crossover. So if they made a 2 way crossover, but wanted to have the speaker go lower, and instead of 2 active bass/midrange drivers + 4 passive, they could just put 6 active in there, they would need to make it at least a 2½ way crossover design for more linear frequency response/dB output. That can be expensive, and you would actually be surprised how even high end speakers have corners cut, when it's parts that the customer doesn't see. Like having a 3000 USD subwoofer where they saved 50 cent on a part in the amp, that eventually makes it die. But if it just last for a few years past the warranty, it's fine, and also they think in quantity. So 50 cent saved per unit, but 100.000 units sold ads up. You can often see how manufacturers save on things you don't see, if you search online for the drivers for said speaker/subwoofer. Even REL use cheap stamped metal drivers in their 2000 USD subwoofers. But when you look at it screwed into the subwoofer, it looks like high quality. And when they claim a subwoofer or active speaker has x amount of power amplification, it's often measured in 4 ohms and a THD (distortion) that is 20-200x higher than what Hi-Fi amps usually is measured at. And then there's a speakers specs. Frequency response is sometimes +- 6 or 10 dB where it should be +- 3 dB. Sometimes it is even just the total, so how low in frequency can the speaker play while just barely making a sound. Sometimes they use in room response. And also sensitivity is often measured 2.83V instead of 1W/1M. And the 2.83V is a fantasy world measurement that assumes that the speaker is a constant 8 ohm, which it is not. So you'll get a higher rating than 1W/1M especially if it is a speaker that is rated to be 4 ohm to begin with. And also manufacturers can claim anything, and doesn't get any penalty for lying. Piega has a pair of line-source speakers that cost about 20k a pair. The measured 10 sensitivity lower than what they claim, meaning you need over 10x the power to drive them to the same volume

[@tomerikstokness276]

You forgot to mention the pipe-resonance.. Problably whats hapening at about 600hz… Do a nearfield measurement of the port to see what i mean..

[@headkase11]

Great info! If you want a crazier example of using passive radiators and a car check out my video of my 6 12s with a earthquake slaps radiator for each pair of 12's. Its only getting half of the rms but its the cleanest, loudest set-up ive ever had. Plus im getting very high db on a wider frequency response.

[@SocialClubSound]

Thanks, will do! Sounds bonkers!

[@headkase11]

@@SocialClubSound my next build in the next couple weeks is going to be even more bonkers lol. By Monday my 1200rms 10" is being delivered. I'm building what I call the "Deaf cube" it's going to be a 1.4 cubic foot box with my 10-in sub inverted on top with three of the outside panels holding a earthquake passive radiator. Then eventually I'm going to buy two more and build a 4-in gap panel on the bottom so all four corners of the box are going to have a speaker. 🤯. This is what happens when a bass head needs to add a baby seat in the back of my truck 😂

[@MegaBigbizz]

To bad you didn't let us hear it

[@SocialClubSound]

I've yet to find a stereo microphone system that accurately captures that I'm hearing. I'm looking tho to try and find one so I can do listening tests.