Possible Hydro Power Solutions for our Off Grid Cabin? A BIG THANKS TO YOU!!

[@davidjondoh8671]

Find an engineer that would be interested in a "working" vacation. Have them get your power system working while vacationing at your place free in exchange for the work.

[@florihae]

I would LOVE that. Systems like that are my passion. Spending a week there and work on it for free would be amazing!!!

[@KrisHarbour]

Its really a shame i cant come and do a survey. I am 100% sure that there is a small hydro electric system there. But some accurate measurements of head and flow over a period of time need to be taken in order to decide if a low head turbine would be worth while or is it would make more sense to get the wheel working better. The wheel will never be efficient though. Even if you make the best waterwheel in the world it will not come close to the performance of a turbine. If you could set up a water level or borrow a laser and find out exactly what the elevation is from the water level to the pipe that would be a very big help to anyone advising. At the 150gpm flow you stated you have at the moment you would get approximately 100w at your batteries if you had a low head turbine installed. It wont ever be a big system that is for sure, but there is power there to be had. But the system needs to be very efficient to really be worthwhile. From what i can see a low head turbine on that pipe would be the way to go. Most likely a small kaplan turbine, That way you can keep the wheel in place and it will just run as the overflow.

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thanks again for your input! I plan on figuring things out in the next few months. We are currently in a cold snap with 10” of snow and the waterwheel is frozen. I did get solar panels delivered last week so I’ll have that too.

[@nanouekonzo5581]

Hi Kris, good to see you here.

[@o_ra1572]

Would kaplan work with that slow waterflow? How about tighten the 6" pipe to 1 or 2 inch pipe at the end and use peltonwheel?

[@enginerd1776]

I threw this in another video, but just to make sure somebody who has his ear gets it- the fill line for his future pond would be a great start to a small turbine, utilizes his current reservoir and from the very few shots I have seen there's more available drop on that 6 inch discharge.

[@kletusbobby7029]

YES your 2000w generator is TOO BIG. As Kris, I and others said on your last video, your electrical system is far too big. I would start with testing the wire going to the cabin to ensure they are not broken of shorted together Then I would replace the enormous generator with a 500w PMA permanent magnet alternater, set up to produce high voltage that will be transmitted to the cabin where it will be rectified and reduced to usable voltage levels.

[@trentgay3437]

Ok for the flume. a box end with a hole in the bottom straight above where you want the water to drop. It's the drop in height that generates the power not flow of stream on this type of wheel.

[@se8214]

You be right!!

[@clippersncurls]

Just a thought, by modifying the dam to a more controllable adjustable feed allowing an increase in the flow speed in conjunction with Trent's suggestion would be an inexpensive option and easy way to abort if necessary.

[@windsunh2o]

Even if you wind up not using the wheel to power the house, this is still one of the most valuable series of hydro power videos on KZbin because of the discussion you got going. So much information in the videos and comments. Keep us posted if anything new happens with it.

[@Yarrney]

I agree. Very interesting and informative😊

[@gregwarne3252]

kriss harbour on yuotube does water turbines with better videos and explinations

[@ARLGD]

That's a great point! The discussion and information in the videos and comments are indeed valuable. It's always helpful to have a community where we can learn and exchange ideas. By the way, have you heard about the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series? It's a versatile and powerful backup power solution that could be useful for your off-grid cabin. It has a massive capacity, fast recharging, and even waterproof technology. Check it out if you're interested!

[@kennethcase1941]

1. Load your wheel more with two generators. Increase the water supply. 2. Convert your low voltage DC at the generator to AC and transmit the AC 220 feet to the house. 3. The higher the voltage the less loss you will have. The less current thru the wire the less loss of power. 4. Calculate using ohm's law.

[@everettplummer9725]

I was trained by Siemens, back in the eighties. They moved their hydroelectric generator plant, down to Palmetto Florida. I also worked in motor and tool repair. I suggest a governor on any wheel. And a heavy duty industrial 3phase regulated generator. We used to get quite a few MG sets in the shop. DC, two phase, three phase, high frequency too. Some got scrapped, others didn't get picked up. So they laid around until someone was interested in buying used rebuilt. When we rewound them, they were a little extra heavy duty, new bearings, and paint, actually better than new. Probably get for the price of saving laying cables for DC.

[@calebheddy1447]

The power loss on dc would be huge on a 250 foot run. No wind and solar seems to sell bare minimum wire gauge. Converting to AC at the dam would likely save money and produce more energy. Adding some light weight extensions to the side of the wheel would increase efficiency also.

[@ScottGlisson74]

That 10" pipe reduced down to a 6" would power a turbine easy!

[@TheOFF-GRIDiot]

Hi guys. Just let me say, I never ever log in to youtube, but your video pushed me over the top! I have to toss in my 2 cents! I've read all the comments about the wheel, and let me just say, that wheel is absolutely perfect! It's got tons of potential power in that spin, I mean it's really obvious, the weighted momentum is going to give you a LOT of power, easily over 500 watts, likely over 1000. Maybe you could add another 6-10 inches to your water gate over the wheel, but really, i think it makes enough mechanical energy already. I can't stress enough how impressed I am with the energy coming from that wheel. Don't let anyone tell you it's the wheel's fault! All you have to do is change out that silly generator and install an AC generator instead (and slap a little bridge rectifier on the wall next to charge controller where it gets turned into DC power, then you only need 2 short heavy gauge wires to your controller from the rectifier..... AC power can travel much much further than DC without loses, and you can use regular household wiring that will take 120v and 15-20 amps without issue, which is what I assume you already have underground there. Use the same system that windmills use. That's why most of the wind gennies are AC, the wiring is usually very far from charging station. I promise, you will see massive increases. Your wheel is beautiful and the dam is crafty! Remember: 1. Swap that 24v generator for an AC version. 2. Run it to an AC/DC bridge rectifier in your shed on that wall with all your other stuff. (rectifiers are super simple and cheap) 3. Run heavy gauge cables from rectifier to charge controller. (even though it's only a foot or two, it's DC power now, use fat cables here !) 4. Enjoy your new free power. P.S. For gear ratios on pullies, use whatever gets you closest to 120 volts, or the max power/watts (volts x amps) rating for the wire between the wheel and the house. I would start with a smallest pully you can find for the generator and the biggest one you can find for the water wheel. If it's too much power and exceeds the wire's rating, control it by restricting the water flow. I am convinced you are only going to be limited by the wire you installed underground between the dam and the house....that wheel might make more power than the cable's rating!

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thanks for the input! I’ll hopefully give this a shot in the coming months.

[@gravelydon7072]

You need a float adjusted flume gate. When the flow is low, it needs to open more. When you have a high flow, it would close down on the flume gate. Adding a section as Trent Gay said would also help. You might lose more water to waste thru your spillway opening but you would gain overall. You could add a gate there but the rise in water level would have to open the gate which is harder to get right than one that closes. You could also use a flyball governor to control a gate but that also adds complexity and maintenance.

[@codysexton2195]

AC all the way to the house is gonna be about the only way its gonna work over that distance.

[@jamess1787]

I would beg to differ. Depends on his anticipated load. I've got 60W at 54v running over 24awg wired about 250ft without issue. Definitely couldn't run any major appliances on that. With 10awg at 220ft at 50vdc: he's only losing 5v with 10A draw (500W).

[@codysexton2195]

@@jamess1787 to each there own i disagree.

[@jamess1787]

AC is the right design choice, but has a cost now that the systems been installed. I'm sure his system will operate just fine once he is able to fix a lot of the other issues. This is a minor (but possibly costly fix). [Edit: also 220ft isn't long distance transmission.]

[@sean123456789]

@@jamess1787 also you will loose quite bit in conversion. You are correct, 220ft is not long when compare the miles of power lines across world. AC is ideal because of the zero cross. But a high voltage DC system can transmit a lot of power at lower current.

[@gravelydon7072]

@@sean123456789 Problem is, you really need a high Voltage DC for any distances. 50VDC is not it. With his six wires, running wild AC to the house would be better. Then rectify it. Then adjust it for the Voltage you need in a charge controller. 2000 Watts at 50VDC is 40Amps. He is getting nowhere near that at the house and 6 #10 wires, assuming 2 conductors for each leg ( +, -, and ground ) should be able to carry it. It will lose about 20% of the voltage from the wheel to the house.

[@Happyantix112]

Focus on putting in some solar which will sort out power especially for when you have it rented, then you can be free to take your time getting the hydro right!

[@glennlockey1012]

Great update video. 2 recommendations that I'd make. 1, use a shaped outflow end to force all the water in the flume downwards to make sure it all makes contact with the wheel, shaping the outflow so that it only allows through the maximum amount of water that the wheel can handle without overshot splash and 2. You need to keep water in the wheel for longer around the rotation so by adding strips angled upwards, it will catch more water from the flume and keep it in the wheel longer giving the wheel more rotational force. best of luck and look forward to seeing more videos showing the tweets that you make as you fine tune your wheel.

[@carsonhunt4642]

Wouldn’t making it a simple pitch back and wheel turning opposite direction be more efficient?

[@jamesmyers3773]

I’m just along for the ride, Dude. I know you will get it worked out. Can’t wait to see that video.

[@AndyD162]

instead of trying to get your 20' from above the spring, what about below the dam? It does look like there is quite a bit of elevation change between the spring head and water level at the dam and below.

[@jaysmith1408]

Such as pumped storage? A larger reservoir with the off flow of this one, and the several other more seasonal flows. If i’m not mistaken, there is a boundary with the state that may be of concern, depending on location and scale of lower lake.

[@AllenMackenzie]

Hey there, here’s my top 3 from what I heard: 1- modify the flume and paddles 2- take everything you can get from Chris ! 3- do the solar

[@newinsharpsville]

You should talk to engineer 775 on KZbin this is what he does for a living

[@arthurkallansrud1950]

Check into a bicycle 10-12-18 speed gear sprocket drive from your water wheel to get the rpms you may need .

[@FiscalWoofer]

Yes because that wheel has a lot of torque, but limited rpm. If the wheel had even larger paddles the torque would go up a lot so even with high gear it will turn it right?

[@slwool]

Use a PMA that sends out three-phase AC power. Run that clear to wherever you have the charge controller and battery bank (maybe 8-2 with ground wire). Use a rectifier to convert it to DC and plug that into the charge controller.

[@MatWalter-q3h]

OMG THIS IS PANFUL. Literally reinventing the wheel. IN a previous video I saw the 4" over flow ripping.... I just moaned.. passion can take a person on amazing journeys.... they are seldom efficient.

[@bwcok7947]

Can't wait to see you put some trout in the pond! Your slice of heaven!

[@thefurrylittleotter3460]

Trout need a LOT of water flow or they die. I don’t think he has enough.

[@bwcok7947]

@@thefurrylittleotter3460 the colder the water the more the oxygen it can hold + a solar aerator will handle that size of a pond easily.

[@thefurrylittleotter3460]

@@bwcok7947 I could name a LOT of fish that wouldn’t require anything😉 trout are needy

[@eldstgilmorbarboydodellatb4413]

💚💚💚💚 bookmark/ notes : Ferris wheel 🎡 kiss- get a room/ shed ( 🚽 baseball kiss cam , wooden water wheel dc cord closer to battery 🪫 ) …..ect…..tbc….-g-b, bot

[@kevinwatson5833]

I would definitely do both solar and water and sounds like chris guy is onto something

[@jasondevine6014]

Yep I agree Chris is making all the right suggestions

[@Chillaxing113]

Most of this hydropower stuff goes right over my head but I just love watching all of your videos. Got my fingers crossed it works out for you.

[@wickedestilo1826]

Don't give up brother what you have created is amazing and it would be awesome to finally see the thing running and producing power

[@akdisney]

Splice may lose volts on way is done and moisture can get to copper wire.

[@hewittg.malone5973]

For the Water Splash at high flow - You can build a cage around the front to direct the water where you need it. The cage will direct all the water into the wheel, increasing the available power. Generators put out AC - Alternators, use a rectifier to give "pulsing AC".

[@1981dasimpson]

pulsing dc as the rectifier take away the bottom half of the wave

[@everettplummer9725]

A diode cuts half the wave. A rectifer is 4 diodes, allowing both halves of the wave tô be on the same side. A generator produces DC, with the output voltage, controlled by a regulater. A alternator produces 3 phase AC, which gets converted into DC, by diodes.

[@se8214]

Id say, your sloose box, extend it, and add it a front a forward and top wall, with a small gap at the bottom so the water will evacuate going down directly onto your wheel getting more force to move the wheel. Moving forward, verify your gearbox, for maximum rpms to your generator. Do not go chain, as it will rust. Lastly, you can always build up your dam. A possible flywheel, could improve the constance of the wheel spin. An easy addition could be an 18 wheeler rim. Or a train rail wheel. Once spinning, it will improve themomentum of the waterwheel.

[@everettplummer9725]

The water isn't hitting too soon, before center is okay, like firing your spark plugs before TDC. Momentum figures into the equation.

[@brentfrench752]

Hang in there. You’ll get it worked out. Lot of smart dudes out there!

[@TixNBurrsRanch]

I did small hydropower design (1 Mw to 40 Mw) for five years in the 1980s. Three years ago, I went off-grid on 55 acres of headwaters land and added a 300w microhydro to a new 2kw solar/10kWh LFP battery system. The PowerSpout (NZ) turgo hydro below a stockpond uses 120 gpm and 28 feet gross head. It perfectly complements the solar after I added 23kwh of batteries for $9000. I'm now helping a neighbor develop his 200kw hydro using an Energy Systems & Design (NB) Watter Buddy and 120 feet gross head through 800 feet of 2-inch pvc. My recommendations: 1) Do a solar/hydro system. They DO work on ephemeral streams. 2) Look very hard at application of the PowerSpout LH genset at your dam, using their online advanced calculators. 3) Compare that option with developing the drop from your spring to the farthest downhill point of your property using that 6" pipe and a PowerSpout TRG genset.

[@trentgay3437]

I would convert to ac power at the wheel by using an old generator with a broken motor slap a belt on instead of the motor and run 110v to the house to charge the bank.

[@bradfordthompson8326]

You are a very impressive inspiration person ....by trying to fix your generation station.....and by not giving up like most guys would.......Dont......great video content 👌.......you are going to feel so,so proud 👏 when you do figure it out

[@henricagven2874]

charge a battery at the wheel and let it work the power up to the house were you can work the rest out with whats coming out as dc🙃 maybe 😁 fun and good stuff, thank you

[@therealzipp0r]

i think adding solar panels is a good idea and be the main provider of your power. i like the water wheel, when you calculate the potential power it should make and get a generator to match im sure it will work just fine and be useful especially at night. somebody said get rid of the charge controller ? they stop battery overcharging (which could set them on fire) and can dump excess power into water heating or heaters.

[@dallasschneider4564]

Great comments! Like chain drive, putting dc close to water wheel, then run ac as voltage controllers could be set higher at source so to compensate for 220 foot line losses making 120/220 volts at house absolutely correct. Also add line ferrites to protect against possible emp surges, Water wheel work of art is turning. No need to change for efficiency! Waste a little water!!

[@VeggiePower303]

I don't think your belts are slipping, but a chain and sprocket set has less friction and loses. The downside it that you have to keep them greased well and should not rain on it. So what you have is pretty good. Look into E-Bike Hub-Motors/generators!!! They run on very slow RPMs so you don't need so many belt and pulies. It's more efficient that way. They generate AC at 48 to 120 Volts. You have to take the AC up to the house and then use the E-Bike controller to rectify it and charge your batteries. Could save some money this way and your system will be expendable, you can add hub-motors at any time.

[@joecarte7538]

You could improve the wheels efficiency by shaping the buckets like and upside-down letter "L." this would catch the spout and hold the water to almost the bottom of rotation. I saw appears to be 3 phase AC power going to you house with rectifiers on the control panel - this is good.

[@johnlockesghost5592]

This is the answer, but he won't listen.

[@raytalbot5890]

Go see Marty T he is in NZ has a solar & water generation system, uses an old washing machine for a water turbine 👍

[@guygillmore2970]

that is for high head - not applicable here.

[@raytalbot5890]

Yes but if the spring was fed in to a small gage pipe the water pressure could work a turbine

[@Thomas-wn7cl]

That's what I was thinking too. You could not use Marty T's exact system, but I would be interested in how he would trouble shoot this.

[@Leo-Nee]

Haha crack up. I just shared his smart gen re-wire vid on here lol. He’s great!

[@Leo-Nee]

We wouldn’t mind building a turbine like Marty’s here on our property. We have a stream with big alkathene feeding way way up stream down to the veg garden.

[@davidchristensen6908]

I’ve been watching Chris Harbour for many years and what a wonderful resource for him to reach out and help you

[@zmikez]

I'm sure someone has already said this but just in case: AC from your wheel to your house. I's look at something around 400-500 v (AC) and then to your charge controller. Most modern charge controllers can take a high volt AC input but check with your supplier. You mentioned Missouri wind and solar, I've not worked with them but I have heard good things about them. I'm sure that they can tell you what the equipment that you have can do and how you will need to configure it. I can typically get 500W out of a small hover board motor by running it at 500v and about 1 amp out. that means cheaper wires to the house and less loss in the lines. This is why the transmission lines that the power company uses runs at such a high voltage; it's more efficient. The the DC side: High voltage battery banks are generally the better way to go. That has to do with how the inverter has to increase the voltage up to house voltage (220). the higher the starting voltage, the more efficient the inverter is and less losses due to heat.

[@faniefaze]

The first to make the waterwheel more efficient would be to make a chute just big enough to let out enough water for the waterwheel cavities. The same amount of water will go a long way then instead of getting wasted. The second would be to remove slip from the wheel to the generator, someone suggested a chain drive. To make power you need a lot of torque, you know how the car fan belt screeches when it slips, that is torque required to pump the amps. Other than that, make sure the wheel turns the generator fast enough to produce power.

[@giannislionettis9959]

You guys have done a wonderful work..I love the water wheel you have made.. it's easy to fix it .. like I see it i think he can make you 150/400watt 1) you need to get a AC 48v 600/1000w generator from thermodyne it's not expensive and it's a good company for what you need. 2) you need a rectifier it's very cheap to corvette the AC to dc before and next to the charge controller (like that you will not lose power) Try to get 40/45v with low water and max with rain 48/55v.. the mppt charge controller need 2times the voltage of the battery to do nice work.. I don't think that you need brake and all those components that you have.. the mppt will stop giving power to the battery when it's full.but it's up to you...I think this kit was for wind turbine. You don't need to run fast the wheel..you must run it slow.. the speed that you need you will give it with gears like you have it .. More water on the wheel will give you more Amp.. Speed will give you volt .. Amp x volt = watts If you like to improve you water wheel with out fixing anything on it...I think you can do 1 more next to it and do them 2 and if you can make it more fat to get more water it will be better.. you can connect them to the same shaft .. With the pipe that you have yea you can run a water turbine(you need to have filter for the water and you must clean it and check it) it's not so easy like the water wheel that you don't need to do anything :). I hope my comment help you a bit.

[@jhinnant58]

I’m an engineer. So, yes, go AC to as close to your equipment in the house as possible before your rectifier. Higher voltages will allow you to use smaller wiring. Most car alternators have the rectifier built-in, but some can be modified. Ask an old-timer at a local alternator rebuild shop. You’ll also need DC source to excite it or use a permanent magnet alternator. There is an 2KW alternator on Amazon, but I’m not sure of the torque required in your application . (Ista Breeze 2 KW 48V Permanent Magnet Generator, Savonius, Wind Generator, Wind Power (2 KW 48V Permanent)) And...consider a deflector above the output to help keep the water on the wheel during high water flow. It appeared to overshoot it.

[@Magutz]

Congratulations on your project and popularity of your videos! I'm working on my own off-grid ranch with a Pelton wheel and solar panels. You need to control the water flow by restricting the output with a variable flume gate to a desired amount, water velocity by leveling the flume and extending the flume just past the center of the wheel; This way you can optimize your available power. You can calculate your approximate available power with this formula I came up with (someone else may suggest a better one); GPM × Drop x 0.433 /2.298474 Where GPM = Gallons per minute and Drop = flume height in feet. This is at 100% efficiency so you have to take into account some power loses. V-Belts are very inefficient on power transfer and conversion due to the required tension, it's best to used keyed belts, chains or gear drive. Direct drive being the best but you won't get the required RPM out of the wheel. This is not as critical because of the low power we're working with here but the 10 gauge wire you're using is too thin for that distance, it's best like others have suggested to build a local building to keep the distance between the PMG to MPPT as short as possible or run a much higher voltage at the PMG but that makes it dangerous. Solar panels would complement the installation nicely and are not very expensive. You can get 100 watts out of a single panel which by my guess; you will require at least 50 gallons per minute of water flow to get close to that. The big advantage of hydro is that it's 24/7 unlike solar which is limited by the amount and angle of sun-light available. I enjoy watching your work, thanks for sharing and doing a great job with your videos.

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thank you 😊

[@doesstuffoutside]

A: How much head is there between your spring and your potential pond site? That extra head could pay off. B: An alternator type generator should be more efficient, as the DC generator configuration has more contact surfaces which means you lose energy to friction. C: If you use a generator that puts out higher voltage AC, definitely run the power to your cabin as the high voltage AC and put your rectifier right by your charge controller. The lower your voltage, the higher the amperage you need to transmit a given number of watts. High amps require thicker (more expensive) wire, and lose more energy to heat. That's why commercial grid power is taken long distances at high voltages, then stepped down to some still large voltage for local transmission, and then stepped down again before it enters the home.

[@MrRain-hk4zi]

To figure how much head / fall you have on the system, run garden hose from your water wheel to your intake. Attach a liquid filled pressure gage on the hose after flushing the air out of the line with the flow. You can kink the hose to add the gage to give you a PSIG reading. To find out what your elevation gain is from the flume to the intake is, multiply 0.443 (psi per vertical foot) x the pressure reading. I know I'm probably a little late to the game because the video is three years old. I got some old steel wheels similar to what you have except mine has round spokes and I need to rebuild / fabricate the hubs and straiten the wheels. I thought I was original when I came up with the old steel wheel idea. Yours looks great. I am also working on an off grid system from scratch.

[@everettplummer9725]

The belt will slip if you run it that loose. You need multi v-pully, with BX style belts, properly tensioned. And battery banks close to it. With AC inverter to house.

[@adamforman9264]

The turbin style kicks ass , from what I seen thats what I would invest in , your wheel works but its a good back up system....an yes one day I would luv to do what you are doing good luck man 😎✌🍺🍕

[@Markperry123]

Yes good idea kinda like Niagara falls you could make 2 holes at the bottom of the dam put in pipes inside a tubine gen turns makes power could that work. All of this sounds so fun I so be Hine doing this stuff if I could

[@Markperry123]

One more thing if you do solor it and dam coukd be both good enough water and solar too keep enough power

[@tylerbarrett6652]

Don''t give up.... this WILL work once you work it out.

[@MadsWorld34]

i know nothing about hydro and cant use it around here but love watching people do it. great little video here.

[@mlong1958]

In a previous life, I was an Avionics Tech in the Navy. One way to visualize AC vs DC is that in DC, the current pushes through the inside of the wire, so the wire needs to be larger. Imagine the wire as a pipe with water in it. The water flow is the current, and the pressure is the voltage. The larger the pipe, you can push a larger flow with less pressure. So, in a wire, the larger the wire, the more current it can allow to flow with less voltage. In AC, the current flows around the outside of the wire, so you can get away with smaller wires.

[@strutt01]

A water wheel uses the weight of the water to turn the wheel. The bigger the wheel in diameter, the wider each trough and the more volume of each trough gives you your torque and weight. To use a turbine is when you need your height of water column. That water wheel you have can produce A LOT of power. That thing weighs at least 200 lbs. and when you opened up that water gate that wheel was getting ready to take off flying. Your wheel will work.

[@muhammadcheikh3466]

Just flip the wheel 180 , cut the flume at the wheel end and incline all the flume to reach the bottom of the wheel at the concrete edge to get higher down flow and more power , hope that would works, and try a treadmill motor as it gives higher voltage with lower rpms ,all the best.

[@cody481]

I think you are doing GREAT! I would have done a few things differently. IT'S YOUR DREAM. YOU LIVE IT. The wheels you have are from a horse drawn hay rake. We are Percheron owners and love the Draft. The big clue on your wheels is the diameter and the ratchet notches. I am doing this with an undershot single wheel. Only to pump my spring water. Your water wheel is overkill strong. I would have used a bigger axle for convenience. Your wheel is definitely a slow speed device for those bearings. They will be fine. Just grease about 4 times per year. I also would go with a linshaft running to the house side of your dam instead of the long wires. Old truck driveshafts? Truck rear differential to turn the corners. All of this should be in a covered trench (children) Or just use an old truck axle to support the wheel? I would also have 2 bearings every place you have 1. 1 of those would NOT be turning. 10? 20? Years from now my son/daughter/ would open a letter telling him/her to go down and tighten the 2 lazy bearings and slack the 2 working bearings. I would have used old school automotive Generator x 2?-3?-4? And used as many 12 volt appliances as I could find in trucker magazines. REMEMBER mechanical to electrical (and vice-versa) is a major loss. The biggest point is YOU LIVE YOUR DREAM.

[@novamom1962]

It’s all so interesting. Fish in the pond is going to be awesome. Love y’all. ❤️

[@tylerdurdin8069]

I wrote my advice for fixing your issue in another video and was going to write it here again in hopes you'll catch it and think I just heard you mention what the problem is. You lose power drastically over length with DC on a linear scale. You need to generate AC and use it directly at the cabin and/or use an AC to DC converter to recharge your batteries. The higher the VAC the smaller the conductor needed, i.e. 120 VAC @ 20Amps for 12 gauge copper wire while to get that same amperage (20) the distance your working with you would need 0 gauge. Yeah DC is no good for the distance your working with without using absurdly large diameter conductors. Your basically turning your conductors (wires) into heating elements essentially. So get as high a wattage VAC generator to replace your DC generator and you'll be good to go. You'll need to turn the AC generator at 3600 rpm to get your 60 hz since rpm only determines your frequency with AC. Good luck.

[@ryangriffiths-powell1236]

Correct me If I'm wrong. But if you move the wheel down the bank by the desired drop, and extend the flume or make a lower reservoir and put a flume off of that. Then put the correct wire size In and jobs a gooden

[@ccrews0612]

Glad to see this update. I know you can make it work. Don’t give up.

[@lef0u1]

Wow, kudos my friend. You're very brave with your build and pray strategy. I love it. As you have discovered, what you started is a journey. Now for a build like this one, your initial results are absolutely normal, anything else would of been a miracle. But you did make a huge mistake, and I do believe you realized it. Your biggest mistake was that you did seem to accept defeat in your last video. If you ask me you might have stumbled across the best marketing idea I have seen on KZbin in a long time. When you said in this video that it was strange that most people listen to videos to learn things and in this case your viewers are teaching you. I garentie that if you make this the theme of your KZbin channel and you do it strategically and well you are going to annihilate the KZbin algorithm. The viewers that follow you could become so invested in your success they would become what we call superfans and you would have engagement tru the roof. I would suggest the book ( superfans by pat flynn). Now I'm the complete opposite of you, I dabble in everything, real estate, homesteading, new energies, marketing, etc.. etc.. I learn everything and do nothing. But I really do think you should talk to a really good marketer about this reverse learning KZbin channel idea, I think this could be a gold mine, if done right. I will definitely be following you, I'm really curious where you go from here. Don't hesitate to reach out. You're a very interesting fellow.

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Wow what an interesting idea. I’ve never considered it but you might be on to something! I’ll definitely keep this in mind and give it more thought. Thanks for the encouragement and input!

[@lclunday3421]

Box in the end of the flue

[@nodakhunter]

You can calculate your power output from the wheel. Hp=(torque x Rpm)/5252. 1 hp = 746 watts. According to the readings you have 35W TO 55 Watts at the house. That means the wheel is only producing 0.21 HP.

[@tuguybear930]

If you don't want to upgrade to chain, use toothed timing belts and pulleys. To do away with potential slipping of the belts.

[@johnraley5713]

I suspect the biggest issue is the long run with low voltage over relatively small wire causing too much voltage drop. Higher voltage requires less current for the same amount of wattage whether AC or DC.

[@gravelydon7072]

He said there are 6 # 10 wires there. That means that he could use two conductors per leg and not see the drop he seems to be getting. He might want to ring out the wires and see if there is a break somewhere.

[@jfitzerelli]

I’d bet on a bad splice. Wet underground... an ohm meter is necessary

[@gravelydon7072]

@@jfitzerelli Joint, then rubber tape, electrical tape, friction tape, heat shrink tubing, concrete. That'll seal it. :-)

[@jfitzerelli]

@@gravelydon7072 huh?

[@gravelydon7072]

@@jfitzerelli Making sure the splice doesn't get water in it.

[@kauaiguy6574]

Glenn Lockey has some good suggestions. Energy is transferred to the wheel via water weight on only one side of the wheel (at low flow rates), and also resistance to the forward flow of the water (at high flow rates). Right now, only low flow rates are efficiently transferring that energy, but the rotational speed is low. In high flow rates, the water is mostly missing the wheel; neither filling the wells nor capturing flow energy.. The key is to hold water longer and capture flow energy better. Glenn's great suggestions do both. You need to extend the back wall of each well (what the force of water hits, to capture it), by adding an angled/curved "fin" towards the oncoming water (think more turbine-like, i.e. Pelton). That will transfer more water and energy to each well. The end of the flume needs to be modified, as well. The bottom needs to be cut back some, to give space to the new added fins to pass by. You may consider installing a horizontally adjustable flue floor board (at flue end), to adjust water drop at different flow rates. Also, add a top panel to flue end, that curves downward towards the wheel, directing high flow rate water into the wheel. Water will spray a bit more, but that is the result of more power transfer. Hope this helps.

[@jayweb51]

To arrest the full water flow over the waterwheel, I would recommend placing a deflector at the front of your sluice; this would redirect all of the water on to the wheel.

[@EastLondonKiwi]

Hi great to see you are learning to trouble shoot your power challenge, and awesome to see you have connected with Kris, and I see Joe Malovich is replying to your issue. Both of these guys have done a lot to understand the nuances of generating power from small water sources. My two cents come from being trained Telecommunications rigger, so after years on the road I have done a lot of fault finding in my time. Here is the basic process. 1. Do not test the entire system start with each component individually first and add on a new item only after the previous items in the run are producing know outputs. Start at from one end and work logically to the other, do not jump about. In this case that should be your raw power source the water wheel. You need a certain amount of mechanical power and torque from that (Kris and Joe will have great advice on what tests you can do to establish the power of your wheel, and possibly enhancements to improve it). Next I would verify your DC motor output at the water wheel location. Spin that without the cable to the house connected, use a drill or petrol engine to spin it up to recommend rotation, and measure the voltages and Amps it is producing (that will tell you its fine and if its producing what the manufacture states it will - There should be a datasheet available online that states what these number are). First freewheeling (no load) then with a load (anything that you can wire in that will eat the power it produces, Again refer to Joe and Kris re this as they have done a lot of this type of testing) Next I would look at your pulleys and gearing at the water wheel, changing those if necessary to match your Wheel torque and DC motor requirements (including load), don't add in a new system like chains until you know belt slippage is an issue (As in my opinion what you need between the water wheel and DC motor is a constant or acceptable torque to DC output). Only once you have the water wheel end working and producing a known output would I move to the next step which is adding in your cable run to the house. 2 Add in one item at a time and recheck your outputs (you'll have two, DC motor under load, and DC motor with no load ), these should be a constant and if they are not you'll know if each newly added item causes a loss. And whether that loss is acceptable or not for you charge controller to accept (as that will have known values of input you need to produce, again read the documentation to get these numbers). For example and issue with your cable. if you have good power at the wheel end and then you connect 200 meters of wire, and the power output drops through the floor. Then you have two options, up the size of you cable gauge to reduce power loss over distance, or move your charge controller and batteries closer to your water wheel (which reduces the distance from source to use). Test either side of the splice in the cable run, as each joint or addition connection in a run will add in a loss, how big of a loss depends on the joint and gauge of the components used, combined with power being transferred via the run. Only after you have good and expected power output at the house would I start adding in the Charge controller and other components. The principal is that if your system is outputting an expected value and then you add in a new item to the run and your output drops through the floor, then the issue is with the new item. 3. Don't guess, only once you understand where your issue is, is when you can start making decision of how to fix it. 4. keep it simple stupid. reduce the complexity of your system, and only add in new advanced features that are matched appropriately to your requirements. Over complicating a system before you understand it is the fastest way to cause yourself issues. Eg a simple circuit is a 9v battery and a bulb, add in a switch only after you confirm the light turns on when the bulb is directly pressed on the battery, then a dimmer only once a switch works, etc.... In my view you need to establish the following to understand if you have sized your system correctly, 1. T power at source (how much water pressure do I have at the dam). 2. The torque/power of the waterwheel underload, The gearing (what reductions do I need to make to match the Wheel power I have to the motor RPM I need with the motor under load). What is the power loss of the cable run (So how much power do I need to produce to over come that, or is a short run better eg move your batteries), what is the correct components I need to charge the battery bank I have sized. Each of these questions is simple maths. Solve each in turn and you will overcome your challenge. I look forward to watching you battle with this issue and will celebrate with you when you conquer it.

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thank you

[@lynnemac1402]

I have no idea on any of this stuff, so I think it is great that you have so many people helping you, good luck for sorting it out x

[@BenNstyle]

Michael, this would be a great little problem for a hydraulic/electrical engineer to solve. BTW, love the website layout and content!

[@jsteele42378]

PSSS you can also add more charge controller as well as strings of batteries. you could even add more gen's to you water wheel. This system is expandable to what ever you want it " as far as output AC voltage and current. Chit you could sale power to neighbors lol . Thanks for letting me post information to you site !

[@manekou3303]

You could make a casing around the wheel. Contain the water so it moves the wheel more. Also have the flume be extendable so you can adjust it for high and low flow.

[@stevebonczyk3795]

Nice work with everything you are doing so far. This is what I would recommend. Do not try and divert water to a location above where your spring is now. This could alter the way your spring is getting water. I would build the dam higher to store more water during the day and run the hydro at night time. You could install a small standalone system to open and close a gate valve for water flow only at night. I would install solar to run and charge the systems during the day. The DC would be fine to un underground as long as it is properly sized to compensate for the voltage drop. Will be following along to see how things go.

[@solomon8273]

Why am I not even worried that this won't work out😂 you seemed so disappointed last video but now you look excited! Love the content

[@chrisherd991]

Hi The first thing I suggest is measure the voltage at the generator end of the feed wire to the house and again at the other end at the house and compare the numbers. Low is good. If at the same time you can get the current in the wire (try the battery charge controller) you can then work out the resistance of the wire. I dont understand why you have three core wire, please comment as I would expect to only need two cores for DC. Everyone else who has commented on higher voltage is correct also having a higher battery voltage helps too. I may have assumed incorrectly that your battery system is 12 volts. My question would be can your inverter be configured for 24 volts. Can your charge controller be configured for 24 volts. If those two questions are yes get yourself a 24 alternator from a truck and reconfigure your battery wiring for 24 volts as well.

[@obedorora6789]

I like the passion , you are on the right track. Just reduce the size of the turbine and increase the water pressure to attain higher velocity.

[@danyoungs4061]

AC is better for sending to power to the house. Higher voltage means less current.

[@lessmith4165]

Ie. Cheaper to run longer distance 🤘🤘🤘

[@Sylvan_dB]

AC makes no difference. The only thing that matters is the voltage. Higher voltage means less current for the same power. Google HVDC transmission.

[@danyoungs4061]

@@Sylvan_dB with AC you can use a transformer to get higher voltage easily. With DC you need a much more expensive DC/DC converter on each end to have higher transmission voltage. This is why Tesla won the AC -DC war. Transformers are fairly inexpensive compared to other solutions. Also a modified car alternator would be cheaper than a higher voltage DC generator.

[@eagle2019]

@@Sylvan_dB You don't know what you are talking about...... I doubt you are an electrical engineer. I am and work on this everyday including 69,000 volt substation feeders which are all AC. Can you explain to me what skin effect is and why it is important???

[@odbo_One]

@@eagle2019 I was about to chime in, you beat me too it. I was an electrical engineer but I changed career about 20 years ago due to family business, I miss working in that field. I doubt the guy knows why AC and DC acts differently, especially in transmission lines.

[@curtismehlhaff2518]

The very first thing you need to do is determine the potential energy that your water can make. This includes your minium flow and the drop your going to use. From that you can base future decisions.

[@forrestyoung6588]

For starters, test with a volt meter the output at the water wheel and then at the cabin. See if the generator is working within spec, and if so then compare the voltage incoming at the cabin to your components, see if the voltage drop is too much for your equipment and if so, upgrade wire size significantly. From the sound of it you have significant voltage drop. I have a similar set-up only I use a wind mill. If your voltage drops too much it's essentially useless at the cabin, as it cannot power the equipment.

[@ThisRandomUsername]

A 10AWG cable at 200ft will have 0.2 ohms per length. Seeing there are two separate sets of 3 phases going to the cabin, there's that current going there and back twice, so 4x200ft = ~0,9 ohms. That's not all that much at 2A (3,6W). If instead he rectified and seriesed the output at the generator and ran the DC up to the cabin he'd have half the resistance in the system because there would only be two current conductors. You'd then parallel all three wires in each cable 1 as the negative and all 3 in cable 2 as positive. That should mean a 1,6W loss at 2A. Edit: But you're right. The best thing to do initially is to compare voltage at the cabin and at the generator, that'll tell you if you even have to go down that rabbit hole.

[@codemonkey2k5]

If Chris gives you advice. I'd take it. That guy is incredibly talented.

[@jamess1787]

You mean Kris...?

[@codemonkey2k5]

@@jamess1787 Doh! Yep, sorry have several Chris's in my life so it's habit.

[@jamess1787]

@@codemonkey2k5 he's also not a Scandinavian woman, so its really confusing.

[@Yarrney]

Good to see people are helpful

[@danyoungs4061]

Ram pump idea will not work , it will only pump a tiny portion of of the water up hill.

[@jamess1787]

How about 1000 ram pumps? :D. That would be hella noisey. Hah

[@brianvandy4002]

Here's something. If you are generating 50v and 20a DC, and running 10gauge wire 220 feet, you are losing over 17% of your voltage so only 21volts is arriving at the house. If you doubled the number of wires so there are two conductors then you the loss is halved. There are a lot of "Voltage drop calculator"s online you can use. The option of converting DC to AC in a powerhouse by the generator is a good idea as the higher the voltage the lower the amps and the less loss there will be.

[@davefroman4700]

That is why that PMG is the issue. If he went with a PMA instead it would be 3 phase AC up to the house and then through a rectifier. I bought two of those units from Missouri Wind and they are nothing but junk. With that size of wheel and the weight of it (which is a HUGE plus to the design btw) there is no reason it should not be able to spin a 1.5 - 2 kw PMA. This is the reason Edison's DC version of the grid lost out to Tesla's AC. Its far to inefficient to transport DC power over long distances without substantial line loss. Where as a run that distance for AC the loss is negligible.

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

It's not so much a question of AC or DC, but of voltage. You need either higher voltage or massive cables to travel 220 feet. AC is easier to change the voltage and switch on and off.

[@craigs5212]

It's not 220' but 440' you have to consider both conductors are part of the loss calculation circuit.

[@brianvandy4002]

@@craigs5212 Yeah, and he shouldn't try to get more distance by doubling the number of connectors, but use larger wire. I still like the idea of converting to 110AC in a power shack closer to the generator.

[@peterfranzklingenberg2527]

In principle, the waterwheel doesn't look bad, it is well built, but when it was built, no one knew how it worked. Straight blades with an efficiency of 30 to 40 percent would be suitable for an undercutting wheel. Here it is installed as an overshot wheel, which is said to have an efficiency of 50 percent if the straight blade were converted into a chamber. I think that adding a - I'm guessing - 2 to 3 inch wide board to each blade would change this wheel to utilize not only the pressure of the water jet, but also the weight of the water. This modification of the wheel blade to a shovel with an L-shape would help to use the additional energy stored in the weight of the water for almost half a turn of the wheel. The flume (the position of it looks right) could be improved by installing an adjustable gate at the end of the flume, with the clear cross-section (width of the opening) only being 80 percent of the width of the waterwheel. The adjustable height of the opening under the outlet gate at the end of the flume should be (I estimate) about 1 inch or so. In this way, the flume is filled and the water pressure accelerates the water to from a jet, allowing it to fill the chambers without causing major spill. To achieve a good momentum, the wheel's modified chambers should be about 30-40 percent full of water. I hope my explanations will be helpful for your interesting project. Greetings from Austria! Peter 😀 PS.: The idea with the solenoid with a big heat sink should not switch off - but should swich on a waterheater used as breaking load ...

[@WhiskeyGulf71]

I like the idea of water wheels as an almost maintenance free system, no screens to keep clean or clear, no pipe cleaning or blocked nozzles.

[@FamilyFulfillmentProject]

We love your off grid life! So creative 👏

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thanks! Y’all need to come stay in it someday and unplug!!

[@FamilyFulfillmentProject]

@@LoftisPartyofSix Yes we do! We should also all meet up and have our kiddos play. 👏

[@TheZebinator]

You could do a combo solar/hydro if you make a dam at the highest elevation you can get on the property. Use the excess solar power to pump up water to the dam to not have the power wasted. Basically using the dam as a water battery for making use of the solar, when you need big bursts of power you could draw from the dam high up. This is how they do hydro in Norway for example, when demand is low they use wind power go pump water up to the reservoirs high up in the mountains. You could funnel the water to a turbine on the lowest spot on the property to get max head pressure

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

220 feet away. I guessed 200' so I would have had to splice it as well! 😅 Also, you've done it now. You have 10,000 "helpers"!

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

😆

[@cristof48]

sory for my english, the mecanical power for hydro system can be calculed. in you case, with 25 GPM and 3 foot of water fall , for a 100% eficiency system, the maximum power you should be able to générate is around 200W. A water wheel is maximum 50% eficiency , with cable, connexions, electric conversion, battery charger, and so, you can hope to 40%. So, 80 to 100W . If you want to use a Pelton or Turgo turbine, you need élevation, at least 45 foot. I use at home a Pelton turbine, this turbine give around 750W, but I have 210 foot elevation (93 PSI), and maximum 40 GPM. You should add a few solar panel. I have a few video in my KZbin chanel for hydro system

[@harvmac69]

I am commenting halfway through the video but I believe you just nailed down your problem right there. The reason AC current was created was because DC current cant travel very far without losing voltage. If you build a power house right near the water wheel and convert the power to AC then you will be able to run the power to the house more efficiently. The 10 gauge wire is a bit thin too. I would go to at least 8 or 6 gauge or bigger. Now I will finish watching! LOL! :P

[@UsingMintem]

Glad to see your hard work, I'm from Indonesia in Southeast Asia and interested in making a simple power plant but because this is a tropical country during the rainy season I have problems with lots of water and tree leaves.

[@MmeHyraelle]

Oh yea solar and that charge controller will be really nice for ya! I'm hopeful to see a solar install, i really think that hill is great!

[@conorcleary2100]

This type of stuff as a architectural technologies is great when I want to design and detail houses I want to bring this type of ideas in housing estates and single build home...

[@michaelstepp8883]

that PMG is providing 3 phase AC to the control panel you bought from them and there is a rectifier on it at the house that converts it to DC at the charge controller. sorry I am coming into all of this late but yea I wanting to see it work as well

[@jfitzerelli]

I’d love to come and check it out. Fantastic lay out. I’m an HVAC guru and may be able to help. I’m in St. Peter’s Mo. Maybe 4 hrs away. I would never give up on that wheel. There’s something we are missing. I’d check the continuity of the 230 foot wires AND ohm each to ground to check the splice. Also duct the water so it doesn’t overshoot the wheel. Sheet metal or something to the like. Love your plan .

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Thanks! Yeah hopefully you can come down someday and check it out

[@TimmyTechTV]

Thanks for new videos. Loved the original videos and its great you are so honest about it all.

[@randallthomas5207]

Get a copy of “Water Wheels, or Hydraulic Motors” by Bresse. It is available on Amazon. It is the only real text on how to design water wheels. Other give you rules of thumb and tell you what works for the authors. This is an actual engineering text book from teh 1850s, before electricity and steam came in to vogue, which was translated from French by Professors at West Point, when teh mission of the Army Corps of Engineers was to capitalize on the water power resources of the United States to promote industry. First in your situation I would have designed an undershot water wheel with the water coming in at the loser third point of the wheel, they are the most efficient with the least flow. the overshot wheel takes little advantage of the momentum of the water, and is instead almost entirely reliant on the mass of the water to deliver torque. On you current wheel, I recommend lengthening the mill race and constructing a nozzle on the end of it to direct the water down and into the vanes. The 12/3 is probably half the size of wire you should be running unless you have stepped up the voltage to 48-volts or more.

[@mjh5947]

I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but have you looked at PowerSpout low head turbines? They require about 3.7 g/sec, but I'm sure you could get the 3ft head and then some with your dam. A solar hydro mix seems exactly what you need though. Good luck!

[@paulwayne8576]

Run your flume out all the way to end of wheel,but close the top of flume trough completely to where’s you only have open end and exit. Then have end of flume pointed at around 45 degrees towards wheel. You should be able to get more control of water flow. And more water concentrated on the paddles .

[@paulosilverio3586]

Hi, I just came across your video now, I don't know if you fixed the issues yet. But here are my suggestions: 1º Forget the pressure system. 2nd A ram pump is not a bad idea. In case you don't have enough water in the summer. 3rd Start immediately by changing the way the wheel works. Right now you have what is called an Overshot wheel. This type of wheel only achieves a maximum efficiency of 70% when it is built perfectly. In your case, you shouldn't be harnessing more than 20% to 30%. You must change it to work in the Pitch back wheel function. If you manage to do it perfectly, you will have an efficiency close to 90%. 4º You don't need to change the transport cables. They are more than enough. They are enough to carry up to 30AMP continuously (15AMP in each cable). 5th You don't need to replace the generator. You just need to change the way it works. Or you build a protection so that the belts are always dry and correctly tensioned. Or you change to the chain system, but in this case don't forget about lubrication, and the same protection similar to what is needed for belts. The transport of energy must be carried out in alternating current (AC). The higher the voltage, the lower the losses in transport. This part will take a good electrician to do correctly. Well, to start you have to identify the reason for the 6 wires coming out of the generator. Then you must convert to three-phase, I think in your region it will be 120V? 2000W / 120V = 16Amps. Which means that you will only be transporting only 8AMP per cable, thus reducing transport losses. With just these changes above, you will triple (yes 300%) what you are producing in this video. I won't talk about what's in the cabin because I can't identify in the video how it's assembled, but at first glance it seems that there are some changes that can be made. Only with a visit to the site, it would be possible to make a correct analysis. You will certainly have someone closer who can do it. I look forward to seeing the update.

[@paulsnary]

Hi Michael, do you have more information about the PMG? I have done a little digging but yet to find a datasheet which make analysis a lot more difficult. Love the hydro project videos .

[@LoftisPartyofSix]

Not yet

[@enginerd1776]

DC is actually more efficient over distance, voltage is your issue. Higher voltage is the solution- It's easier to step down than up. A thought on the wheel- if you made scoops onto the existing wheel, by enclosing the perimeter(partially) or adding a curved scoop you could hang onto the water longer (more torque).

[@henryowens3611]

Yep, Brian Hopkins has got it, ac into rectifier, worth trying 6 wires into 2 rectifiers before spending on ac motor ! to main switches, brake etc.. into 200v mppt charger controller, unless you build a dc battery hut next too water wheel ! Rubber belts will need a spring tensioners. Land and house is a good youtube video about hydro how he extends his 6 inch lower pipe to create more watts by siphoning it out of their lake.