Postflop Play with Marginal Made Hands

[@Julz--93]

In the first example doesn’t the EP raiser also have QQ, JJ and maybe even TT as bluffs here?

[@RackwitzG]

This is good advice and I'm a fan of yours. I like your appearance, demeanor and how you present your videos. I play Micro Stakes and even those can be tough, but you can learn to quickly destinguish between straight forward players and the loosey goosey ones with some experience. A HUD helps. Since I Hero Call more, I've won more. Small bets usually intend to keep you in the pot with opponents that have strong hands. Large bets on the R are often a bluff in the Micros. I still have to deeply understand why I should bet draws. The chances of completing a draw are (much) smaller than missing it, so growing the pot for the case I make it doesn't seem a good idea. If I hit a flush 1 in 4 times I still don't 3 times and I don't believe I will make up for what I lose 3 times with what I win that one time. The size of the individual pot is never mentioned to be relevant when it is taught i. e. "you only have to win 33% of the time to break even". You can't make such a general rule because the pot sizes differ from case to case IMO. Maybe someone can help me?

[@NathanJayDog]

Only bet the draws if you’re getting the direct or implied odds to do so - calculate your break even percentage and if your outs are more likely than this you’ll be profitable in the long run. Take this with a grain of salt because I’m relatively new to poker! I’m not sure when you should lead with your draws though.

[@nedwhitney4123]

Fold equity is why we bet our draws. If you have no showdown value just checking guarantees losing, betting/raising gives you the chance to take the pot down by making villain fold. Getting the art down of knowing when you have to give up is what makes it tricky but having reads on opponents and having an idea of their range helps a lot.

[@RackwitzG]

@@nedwhitney4123 Thanks. I thought of that idea shortly after writing my comment, while thinking it over again. My OP was assuming villain always calls. And in the Micros certain villains almost always do, others don't. The HUD helps on distinguishing the two from another.

[@RackwitzG]

@@NathanJayDog Thanks. Jonathan states in one of his books that it's good to bet strong draws (4 flush, OESD) with 8+ outs and check the weak ones (i. e. Gutshots). I'm experimenting with betting the stronger ones and was stuck as to why bet, when I'm a dog. But I overlooked the idea of foldequitiy. If you have a rare combined flush and OESD, it is even recommended to go all-in if you can, when you have 15+ outs. I only had one of those in over 10k hands. Good luck.

[@twiggle1982]

Re betting draws with fold equity, I'm more inclined to bet my draws into ranges where you are likely to get folds. If I am in the bb and have a weaker draw v an utg range on an ak board I'm never raising because like you say, I'm just blowing up the pot and never getting any folds, and the most likely outcome is my draw isn't getting there. Strong draws ie a high fd + gs just try and get it in. If I have a medium draw in a bb v btn battle on a medium to low board I'm x raising often to fold out there stabs with Broadway hands / and barrelling to put pressure on their weak made hands

[@johnverdeaux]

This is definitely a great topic that applies to everyone. It's very easy to fall into the trap of calling marginal made hands too much in multi-way pots, especially when you're deep stacked. It's a sneaky leak that takes a lot of discipline to fix...

[@Pin_chaser1]

Thanks coach j. Postflop play is my worst area. This will definitely make me more comfortable playing pf 😎😎

[@anthonylivingston7990]

Postflop is everyone's worst area. There are a lot more opportunities to make mistakes than preflop.

[@Pin_chaser1]

@bob harley don't sound to bad😎😂

[@Pin_chaser1]

@bob harley been doing that already 😂. My bank account suffers because of those early mistakes 😂

[@Isntitveird]

At 1:45 "unless they are being absurd". What do you do when you are consistently running into players that are being absurd? When they are calling with junk and get rewarded on the flop, there is no strategy that will help.

[@alex_zetsu]

Is flopping trips a marginal or good hand if it's a multi-way pot? So let's say I have Ace and Five of Hearts and called from an early position pre-flop because... well that's honestly if that wasn't suited it's a bad UTG call and I'm not even sure if it's worth it suited, but just roll with the example. I start to call a bit too much pre-flop when 7 or more of the last 10 last hands ended up with 4 or more people seeing the flop. The button then rises, and multiple people including me calls, someone folds. The pot is now 13 blinds. The flop comes Ace of Spades, Ace of Clubs, Ten of Hearts. The guy before me checks and now I need to decide. Against a lone player, I tend to think I'm ahead when I flop trips. But against 3, there is the fear of being dominated. What if the button has me dominated? But then again, wouldn't the button have also been aggressive pre-flop with most pairs? There is only one ace left in the deck, if it doesn't show up in those 6 hole cards of the other player, then I probably have an edge over the button. Of course everyone loves pocket pairs, so even if I check-raise and no one has the other ace, one of those pocket pairs can turn into a full house. Playing multi-way pots without nuts is nerve whacking. On the other hand I've seen gigantic four-way pots before reach a showdown with everyone showing decent hands that are not the nuts and I think "man, if I called pre-flop and had a 6% chance of hitting the nuts post flop, it would be worth seeing pots like these that 6% of the time even if the other 94% results in me folding post flop and losing what I called earlier" At least three times in these multi-way pots where I flopped trips and tried to jam the pot with a huge bet, I ended up being beaten in the showdown by a pocket pair. Of course, 3 times doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. If I call some guy who always bets with overcards when I have any pair, I'll come out ahead even if I get burned by the occasional pocket pair that's superior to my pair, so the fact that I've lost showdowns with trips isn't' enough evidence to say if it was good or bad. I don't know if trips in a multi-pot are marginal or strong. There's also this poker site where it seems everyone loves pocket pairs even pocket twos when not on the button, but I want to know how strong trips generally are rather than with a specific group. If a table merges in a tournament, I'd rather have a better plan than "fold everything but the nuts no matter what the other guy has until I get a feel for the table"

[@atributeforyoullc]

Is there a way to ask a question directly to coach J? If so, how?

[@PokerCoaching]

[e-mail]

[@jarppe123]

To point out on multiway spot. It can often be marginal with those one pair hands and one thing to look out is also backdoors. A8 with backdoor flush draw will be bit better than one without. Though in general this can be count as having one more out so not over valuing it is important also.

[@UncleJoeLITE]

Back in 2024 for a review...thanks JL.

[@ftfrashid7681]

Thank you I learned a lot from this

[@PokerCoaching]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Optimal-GymRat]

I don't get why AJ would be a fold on that J-8-7 flop. I could agree if the flop would be all in colors and I wouldn't have any color from flop. Opponent's having 9T is very rare so he will try bluffing just to get it. I would fold only on turn or river if the 9 would come.

[@tylerdog3]

I tend to feel like I'm always way stronger then I am or my hand is. Its there anyway to get over this mental gap? I'm doing 100$ deposits at a time and I tell myself I will be playing a lot of hands but I end up just barreling a lot of it away in bad spots. Its almost like I don't give a fuck when I really do.

[@joefisher7792]

Yo Jonathan you had questionnaires and you the quizzes homework type things bet fill the space to make your schooling a hole but you have done something for me much different then all that stuff and that is just one thing it's the mental I listen to you how you demonstrate or show your appreciation for the game even if you win or lose and the keyword I believe you use is just play good sound poker if there's nothing you ever get schooling you better get this that's the key I have some questions for you later I'm playing in a $2,000 guaranteed tournament every hand I pick 90% is a winner I'm folding 65% of the time I'm in second place is 50 people left out of 300 and I think I'm doing pretty f****** damn good thank you mr. Little

[@robertbeuck7556]

My gut tells to not get involved with X - poker ....ever hear anything about it Jonathan ?? . Love your vids . Thank You 👍

[@robertbeuck7556]

Yeah I just found out x poker is a poker app I got these people on Reddit trying to sucker me into something.. stay away from it

[@chriscolwell30]

16 combos of Ak

[@jonathangoldsmith7832]

Is it a fallacy to say things like, “when they raise from late position, they must be wide”? That’s just not always the case with a lot of dudes at lower limits.

[@PokerCoaching]

It depends on the opponent.

[@nsant]

J Gold, your comment is a strawman 🤷‍♂️

[@omegadirective]

From watching this channels other videos, I think later positions are *more likely than not* to be wide. Generally I believe you should have a wider range in later positions than in earlier positions. Sure, they might have the pocket aces, or they are just trying to squeeze. One thing I've learned, if you don't know why you're calling or betting, then you shouldn't do it. Better to fold and save your money.

[@09Germ]

So true JL poker is a tough game not for the faint of heart 😅

[@coltukkor]

-When i plug A8 on the first board against a EP raiser you have about 73% equity -When I do the same on the second board against a wide range I only have a 33% equity. Yet you’re saying to fold the first board and call the second? I can buy into that but based on equity alone that appears to make no sense.

[@lewjg2933]

How do you have 73% equity against an EP raiser with A8 ?

[@iconicheight1188]

Ewwe, this is like eating veggies. Lol. Definitely, a leak with V floating until the river or turn if I make a crying call on the turn trying to make a hero call. Dammit

[@justinlanghorne9611]

"Poker is tough." Lol yeah no shit. Thanks Mr. Little for all the work you do to educate people. It's appreciated.

[@germandywilliams3125]

U talk way too fast

[@PokerCoaching]

U listen way too slow