Viewtiful Joe and The Joy of Motion | PostMesmeric

[@MoonSpiritChannel]

I would really love to see an HD Remaster of Viewtiful Joe, even that chance will never come. As always, great video man. People should play this if they haven't.

[@PostMesmeric]

Capcom is holding this franchise hostage, I swear. I'd pay good money for an HD remaster of Viewtiful Joe.

[@AlriikRidesAgain]

So... This is my favorite game ever, and it hurts my soul that no one has done an entire Egoraptor or SuperBunnyHop style dissertation on this game, but a Mark Brown-esque focus on a single topic within the game... Makes me very happy. Subbed.

[@Lythero]

hell yea

[@PostMesmeric]

How in the world did you get here, of all places? I'm flattered either way. Thank you! XD

[@SuperGamer61499]

Definitely. Hideki Kamiya is who I would call a master at understanding game feel. All his game I would say nail down that style especially Viewtiful Joe. Overall, nice job man. :) Great stuff.

[@PostMesmeric]

Guy knows it like nobody's business. Love his work, and thanks. :)

[@SuperGamer61499]

No problem. I think your channel has so much potential from what I have seen. This is like Grade A content I would say.

[@GabrielShakkori]

Just started playing this game again and it's amazing really forces you to get good

[@Crimson7102]

TGC sent me I'm loving your videos

[@timothymclean]

You're not alone. Not by a *long* shot.

[@vman339]

As someone doing the first 100% tas of this game this video is highly (under)appreciated.

[@TBoneTony]

I got Viewtiful Joe back in the Gamecube era, pre ordered it during a time when I had only enough money to buy one game in every 2 to 3 months. Back then, I had to research gaming mags in news agencies and only buy magazines when I had the money and the featured game in it that I wanted to keep tabs on its release day. Viewtiful Joe, I remember was first revealed in my memory during the Capcom 5 era in 2003 when Nintendo were trying to influence a close tie with 3rd party Japanese Developers after the sale of RARE to Microsoft in 2002. Some portion of that money Nintendo got from Microsoft after the sale of RARE went into helping form a contract with Capcom to make 5 games originally exclusive to the Nintendo Gamecube, 2 of which would later on be ported to the PlayStation 2 a year later as well as 1 game Dead Phoenix that was cancelled a few months after first revealed. I was so happy that I got Viewtiful Joe even though it was not a big game, but it was a hint of what Bayonetta would become later on when the developer who made Viewtiful Joe would later become Platinum Games when Capcom sold the developer to SEGA..

[@ReaverSTHLM]

Great video, and nice to see someone give props to that old gem Viewtiful Joe. As with any good video, there's a lot to potentially unpack and a lot of corollaries to explore. Sorry for the wall of text below. If it's any consolation, I very rarely comment on KZbin videos, so take it as a compliment to how thought-provoking yours was. :) Being a game dev myself (I worked on one of the games you had in your intro segment), I have much respect for the philosophy that "It doesn't matter where this motion is occurring or why, you just need to be enjoying that you're doing it". Indeed, it's a good goal for not just movement, but for all of the game's core mechanics (and hey, if you can pull it off, why not less important interactions like in pause menus and stuff - go nuts :) ) One company I worked at had as an explicitly stated abstract game design maxim to "Build the toy first", regardless of genre. In other words, even absent any game rules or motivation or any of the other stuff that makes a game an actual game, it should be fun to simply engage with the product the same way you would, say a ball. The idea was that so long as simply controlling the game was fun, the likelihood of players sticking with the game in spite of rough edges here and there would go up dramatically. Equally, it was understood that all the high-production-value set pieces in the world would only be wasted money if players didn't enjoy the mechanics; if those mechanics were just a chore they put up with to get to the next cool thing. I think it's a good philosophy, though not undeserving of an asterisk (*). A ball's not simply a ball; a basket ball's qualities are different from a foot ball's qualities in a way that's directly connected to the rules of the games the respective balls were made for. It's not for nothing that a basket ball seems to "stick" more to your hands than a foot ball, and that it's so much more fun to bounce. Nothing really exists in an absolute vacuum. It's a good idea to always remember what kind of experience you're going for and which values lie at that experience's core. And also to understand the interplay between the features you're building, and the content those features will allow players to interact with. In other words, the "where and why" of movement will always be a factor, sooner or later. I think the trick is, though, that once you've gotten movement (or, again, other mechanics) to the point where it just feels great for the type of game you're going for, you proceed to only throw content at the player where that movement set is allowed to shine. If the level and enemy and other content design of Viewtiful Joe hadn't been developed to accommodate the movement, we wouldn't have thought as highly of it. So a shout-out to the ground-level grunt designers around Mr. Kamiya. :) A good example of feature/content mismatch can be found in the Assassin's Creed series in my opinion. There were fundamental choices made with regards to that whole formula, and to the underlying player mechanics. For one, it's a highly animation-driven system; the "look" largely takes precedence over the "feel" of its mechanics. This is true for movement, combat and much more. It's very much an "atmosphere-first" game, and a pretty successful one at that. Given the company's goal of making money, I'd say they made the right - or at least good enough - choices. But even if you agree with how they approach this stuff, you also have to acknowledge that throughout the franchise, the content design has very much outpaced the feature design. As long as I was playing in the relatively straightforward cities of the first few AssCreeds (the ones before 3), the cracks in the movement mechanics weren't very big problems, because they - and the content - were very much made for each other. But as the ambitions of the content changed, it started becoming very obvious how limited and limiting movement was. Suddenly I was expected to climb trees and parse more "organic" environments than before. It quickly became obvious that I was controlling a character designed for navigating grids, not forests. The devs tried to fix this, but it's hard to fix something so fundamental by retconning some band-aids on top of a pretty inflexible core system. I want to make another shout-out while I'm at it, and this one goes out to the Platinum Games art team. Its animators in particular. I don't know if you've seen this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/epi1hn2np6eJf68 It is an early prototype of Bayonetta. Unpacking everything that's going on there is another mammoth post in itself, and I won't bother. But notice the approach to animation. Several movements, perhaps most obviously that slam-throw-thingie, are only a couple of frames of animation. The reason for this is simply that it allows the developers to set the animation timings; they can define beginning and end of each animation, and then set the amount of time that elapses between the two until they find the right "feel" for the interactions. Only after being happy with the feel do they make the real, pretty-looking animations. If they would've done the whole animation first and then tried to tweak the timings after the fact, well... it wouldn't have been pretty. The reason I want to give props to the animators is that they have to make do with whatever timings they get. Hypothetically, they can be told "yeah, the character has to transition from crouching to standing in one frame of animation, otherwise it feels too slow and sluggish - so deal". The fact that they manage to get the whole thing also _looking_ so good (and this applies to Viewtiful Joe too) is a testament to THEIR skill, more so than the director's, if I were to guess. Contrast this with the aforementioned Assassin's Creed, where "realism" is much more important (largely since it's meant to take place in the "real" world rather than the decidedly more fantastic worlds of Platinum's games). I'm pretty sure that the workflow more often is - and perhaps has to be - that the animations take the lead, and the game's designers then have to live with the results. In other words, largely the opposite of the workflow that Platinum seems to use. I actually spoke to an animation lead at Ubisoft who explained that a compromise they've established for the franchise is that the game immediately reacts to player input in some visible way, to make the whole thing feel less sluggish. While it's good to get immediate feedback on input, that can't change the fact that going from a standstill to a run in some of their games can take upwards of a full second at times. For some people, that's going to be a dealbreaker right there. Movement is really, really difficult stuff, and there's no silver bullet. Ultimately, like everything else, it comes back to what the game is trying to accomplish. Personally, I'd much rather play something that moves like a Platinum Games title than a Ubisoft one. But I very much respect the constraints that the Ubi folks are forced to work within.

[@UmiZoomR]

I played VJ2 on the PS2 and the moment i've seen that Tank round fly in slo-motion it blew my mind.

[@HalfBlindProductions]

So glad I found your channel. Geek critique knew what he was talking about

[@reggieisaac6909]

Went to the Geek Critique to check on any new uploads *coughcoughMetroidcough* and noticed your video over there. Checked it out and now subscribed. I'll keep geeking if- wait, my bad. Quality stuff, PostMesmeric!

[@volodXYZ]

Great job on the video, mate! Very well thought out arguments and nicely put together.

[@SnoopingTurtle]

Damn really great video dude! I gotta give Viewtiful Joe a go, looks fantastic :)

[@PostMesmeric]

It's a wonderful game. I think you'd like it! :)

[@timothymclean]

I vaguely remember it being a Saturday morning cartoon when I was a kid (probably before I had heard the term "anime"). Can't speak to the quality--I don't remember liking it more than the average show. Or much of anything about it.

[@TheMangoViking]

The slowmo in VJ just gave me an idea for a Flash (DC) game. When you activate slowmo, everything but Flash is slow. Once your meter runs out, Flash will do everything you just made him do, but at super speed. Kind of like a quick-time cutscene, but you actually had a choice in the matter.

[@PostMesmeric]

I think The Flash could really get a good game. Maybe get Platinum to make it?

[@timothymclean]

Most superheroes, even the ridiculously high-powered ones in DC's upper tiers, could make for interesting and unique games if you focus on what makes them different than normal game protagonists.

[@Whatthetrash]

Got here from Geek Critique. Cool video, mate! Much respect. :)

[@mbe102]

Whoa, Geek Critique wasn't telling fibs! This is great stuff. Subbed, so hard! And you know I hit that bell too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Pikanjo]

Well now I have to pickup this game and feel the motion myself. I remember seeing this in stores as a demo back in the day and didn't really think much other than Joe had a vibrant design. Well put, Alex.

[@PostMesmeric]

Pikanjo Boy, is it a great game. :)

[@alexandrechoin]

One thing I like about Viewtiful Joe is the fast motion mechanic actually. You can rely on level design memory and reflexes as far as you want and go fast as you want, and it isn't just used for puzzles. The range of how far you want to use slow or fast is up to you and I really like that. Speedruns of this game are so entertaining. There's also the dodge mechanic of dodging high or low. I remember in a bayonetta commentary Kamiya decided to just use one kind of dodge instead because of the 3D nature of the game (but also less to think about). But you do miss that feeling of something like God Hand where you really feel like you're ducking under or over something. Bayonetta 2 at some point feels like you're just abusing s and not actually avoiding attacks. Moving that gamecube analog stick up and down is something I still remember vividly. But yeah great video, it does make me remember this game fondly and how much it holds up.

[@PostMesmeric]

I dig the precision of Clover Studio back in the day. I'm a hardcore Platinum Games fan, but I think Clover's work outclasses it. They were very much on their A-game in the days of the Gamecube and PS2.

[@Nescium]

Myles shared your vid. I like what I saw. Plus I freaking love Viewtiful Joe

[@PostMesmeric]

Glad you dug it. :)

[@PerrydactylShow]

FUCK YEAH, ALEX! Good shit, my dude. I really need to get around to play Viewtiful Joe!

[@PostMesmeric]

I think you'd really like it. Game's packed with action. Thanks. :)

[@Chrundleisme]

God damn! A beautiful breakdown of my favorite game of all time, A SUB SIR!

[@PostMesmeric]

Aaron Doodles Thank you. Happy you enjoyed it. :)

[@FarCritical]

This video was... VIEWTIFUL I seriously wish this game got more love from capcom

[@Michirin9801]

Here from TGC

[@DreDiesel42]

Viewtiful Joe is the most sauced up character ever🔥🔥🔥

[@andymcneilly]

Your great review reminds me a video game reviewer who did it more like a court case. Something- cube. I wish I could remember him. But, overall, this was great.

[@zackerysladden5677]

Does anyone know how the character was animated? It seems like it was a 3d model, but it's hard to tell.

[@lcarroccia]

Awesome analysis, brother, like always. You can put into words what I can only feel while gaming. Oh, and Viewtiful Joe is fantastic. Takes me back to when I played it in the afternoon and watched it at night on Cartoon Network. Tell me, what are your thoughts on God Hand? I think it gets a bad rap but it's definitely one of my favorite games of all time, and I don't see it being discussed enough. All I wanted was a beat'em up like it.

[@PostMesmeric]

I honestly have not played God Hand. I got it on a PSN sale, but I've been meaning to play it.

[@lcarroccia]

Please play it sometime and share your thoughts on it. Clover Studio is a gem that we lost. God Hand is one of those games that make you go absolutely crazy with rage and yet you can't stop playing it because the gameplay is so good. When people talk about Dark Souls and overcoming challenges, part of me always remember God Hand. That sensation is as present in God Hand as it is in Dark Souls.

[@PostMesmeric]

It's weird that I haven't played it, because I love everything else Clover did. Platinum felt like the natural progression from them.

[@AlexAmor7]

@@PostMesmeric I know this thread is old but if ya still i haven't i would like to remind ya once more to play it

[@litarogers3984]

Damn that video is good dude!!!

[@timothymclean]

I wouldn't call describing game feel as "postmodern". I _would,_ however, say that there's much more to it than joy of motion...which certainly doesn't help pin it down.

[@kaniuoh911]

I have this on my ps2 lol

[@squirreltamer2548]

Another great game that you should check out in terms of “the joy of motion” is the “Fancy Pants” series. Especially “Super Fancy Pants Adventures”.

[@holydiver6511]

i have this game for the gamecube and it's awesome. i never beat fire leo though

[@hkfauks8712]

I'm going to be the greatest filmmaker in the world; I'm going to capture The Joy of Motion

[@johntrellston9514]

Whats the game at 1:28 called? With the one guy with a blue lightsaber

[@PostMesmeric]

ICEY

[@logicaloverdrive8197]

Henshin a go go baby!

[@yankeegmen90]

I have to admit, you fooled me into believing you'd be talking about the Animals As Leaders album. I only ever played a little bit of Viewtiful Joe and it's one of those games I wish I had given more time to. I was never very good, but I did think it was wonderfully stylish. As for the subject of the video, I'd have to say the most immediate and recent example where I'd say I experience the joy of motion is the Gravity Rush series. I could play those games for hours solely on much fun I have just flying all over creation. Definitely agree that feeling good to move can go a long way for a game.

[@PostMesmeric]

My Gravity Rush video is actually where I first mentioned The Joy of Motion, and yeah, feels real good to move.

[@yankeegmen90]

That's what I thought, because movement was a focal point of that video as well and I had a feeling that was the video that you'd touched on the subject previously.

[@AzraelXG]

The Geek Critique sent me here... DAAAAMN YOU ARE GOOD

[@slmjkdbtl]

Viewtiful Joe > Okami > His other games

[@furllan]

I guess one great example of that "joy of movement" would be Mirror's Edge.

[@maxxdblade]

I can go with the flow Don't say it doesn't matter anymore.

[@Catboost]

Would ya ever do a video on P.N.03? It's something of a failure but I find its design aspirations really interesting. A third person shooter where you dance around projectiles and laser beams. Could have been something great if given more time in the oven or a sequel.

[@PostMesmeric]

Catbus I have already done one, in fact.

[@Catboost]

PostMesmeric Oh shit! Excuse me for not checking your channel first. I'm a dummy

[@jasethemuss86]

Loved this damn game... I kinda remember it being pretty brutal difficulty wise back when games really started to hand hold! Kinda wish it became more of a mainstream title, not a lot of people remember it or even knew what it was back at School lol! Resident Evil 2, Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe, Okami all drew me in for different reasons growing up and my mind was blown when I figured out it was all connected by one now industry legend! Really dissapointed that his Scalebound game was dumped by Microsoft, but can't wait to see what he does next! Bayonetta 3 should be perfection as usual and Wonderful 101 did feel like Viewtiful Joe on steroids at times and would love to see where that could go. Thinking back to Viewtiful Joe man Nintendo should try buy that IP and revive it like they did with Bayonetta even if its just to get some HD remakes out there! Maybe we will see another Capcom 5(4)!

[@AlexAmor7]

I would like to let you know that W101 had kickstarter which is already successful and the remaster is planned to come out on april 2020 on steam,ps4 and switch

[@littlemisseevee2309]

Rivals of Aether I bet falls into it as does Ori and the Blind Forest

[@PostMesmeric]

While I haven't played Rivals of Aether myself, I can vouch for Ori and the Blind Forest. I was very surprised at how much of a flow that game's movement had.

[@littlemisseevee2309]

PostMesmeric Yeah so am I, it’s really fun to simply move, same goes for rivals as it has easier to do movement techs from melee, in fact this game introduced me to ori’s game because he was a guest, I have ninkendo to thank for finding out about either the flow of movement in rivals is a beast I never seen in a game with melee’s techs, I like how they implemented them

[@PostMesmeric]

I'll need to check out Rivals of Aether, then. :)

[@littlemisseevee2309]

PostMesmeric it’s on steam for 14.99

[@PostMesmeric]

I'll look into it. Thanks. :)

[@mrgwei]

what is the game at 1:26?

[@PostMesmeric]

ICEY

[@mrgwei]

Thanks dude! Great vid as well :)

[@timothymclean]

That sounds like a cool game. ...I'm sorry.

[@TheStormyChef]

Oh yeah

[@TheStormyChef]

Kamiya is such a Kamen Rider Fan , he have DMC be co written with a former Kamen Rider Writer

[@datdudewithdatafro7064]

Viewtiful JoJo

[@razirec]

What is the game at 0:03 and 1:47

[@PostMesmeric]

Furi

[@gatekeeper494]

My boy Joe flexing on the non-gamers

[@user-tq7vo4is7w]

You're on point, you're even going a little easy on the importance of animation. Game shouldn't have animation, game itself should be considered an animation. Everything should have some sort of fluid animation to it. Developers, including me, should make games the same way pixar makes movies in this regard. Without quality, artisticly persistent, fluid animation everything else is pointless.

[@TheBreadB]

But who is best girl?

[@chesspunk489]

Your mom.

[@samuelraji8343]

Half Life 1 has good movement, Maybe I am alone on this.

[@artoub8143]

youre hilarious

[@foxy2348]

oooorr you just play Super smash Bros melee and be happy till you die

[@Captain_Neckbeard]

Clover was my favorite studio. Too bad people don't like good games.

[@Kashaku3]

how can you talk about movement without mentioning smash melee???? smh