Poundland 50p switch teardown

[@RonParker]

Because everyone likes a good across-the-pond terminology difference, the wires you refer to as "strappers" are known as "travelers" in the US.

[@aaronbrandenburg2441]

True

[@aaronbrandenburg2441]

Pretty sure there's already comments on this but just stating just in case the third non-compliant method what we call generally three-way switching in the United States is what is often referred to here as Charter wiring at least one variant of this there's a lot of other non-compliant stuff as well regarding commonly done Back in the Day stuff with various combinations of three switching some of which was to save for example in a detached garage oftentimes you would have overhead wiring between the house and garage and you would need more desire to have an unswitched receptacle and the light of course switch separately but be able to be controlled from both the house and garage sometimes although this may have been an outdoor light but there was one method of wiring that was common in today but now not approved where has to save one overhead wire back in the day this was significant and also less work and quicker there are some really odd ones out there that can really get your head spinning when you can't figure out what's going what's a fouled up three-way switch thinking there's other problems going on or like an open wire somewhere for a problem in a non-existent junction box or otherwise and it was just one of those Oddball ones that was just throwing you for a loop sometimes also someone abandons a three-way converting it into just a standard switch and unbenounced everything is still open place and yep of course Dennis realize oh yeah that's just abandoned place and realize that was just something simple and there you go in there there's that weird case where someone installs a pull chain fixture and completely removes all the other switches for no apparent reason and yet no sign of power being tapped off perhaps another light or receptacle elsewhere and of course it's where you really need the original switch location to actually make the area practical

[@Stealth86651]

God forbid we all agree on a standard. Someone should come to with a standard to select world standards then we'll be good

[@UKsystems]

@@Stealth86651 actually we all look on the standard the US would still do it differently

[@DeathInTheSnow]

I say this earnestly - I think there's enough deviation between English and American as languages that they should be considered different. So what they speak in the USA should be considered "American" and everything in the Commonwealth "English". It's as different as Scots is to English, or Slovak is to Czech. It means that you can make clearer terminology changes, and things like subtitles or closed captions can be translated between the two.

[@KevinT3141]

I always think of the first 3-way switch as "send a hot", the other as "pick a hot", and any 4-ways in the middle as "swap a hot". It really helps me remember how to wire them.

[@buffuniballer]

That's an excellent way to consider it. I'm a EE by education and I still had to spend too long trying to grasp this when I replaced all the builder grade switches in my home. I'll also let folks know a good 4-way switch is about $15 each here, vs $2 for a decent "standard" switch.

[@B-System]

Thank you for this, it makes it so much simpler.

[@tin2001]

I'm not an electrician or anything, but never had any real issues understanding how 2 switches worked.... But 3 breaks my brain 😂

[@dogwalker666]

We call the middle one an "Intermediate".

[@GinandTronics]

I would have thought having these being sold to people in Poundland with the incorrect instructions, is worst than them being sold to electricians etc, who won't use the diagram anyway.

[@ralphj4012]

Maybe not. As Clive's bitch instructions made clear, before doing a project, people should learn a bit about electrical installation anyway. Not sure if this also applies to cacti.

[@curtisj2165]

There are no neutrals, so the worse thing that can happen is that the 2-way won't work properly

[@richardwillson101]

Agreed!

[@bendingspring]

Wonder how many people will take the 50p switch back to the shop saying it’s not working properly?

[@imaginitivity7853]

I'm surprised selling such an item with such misleading instructions is actually legal

[@kendauer9781]

I'm in the US but I have a bunch of these (from Poundland!) because I often design theatrical sets for shows that are set in UK or Ireland and I want to get things right. Usually they aren't live, but sometimes they need to be, for practical lighting ("The Seafarer" and "The Night Alive" for example). Good info in the video.

[@martinwhitaker5096]

I love it when LDs / set designers put this level of detail in!

[@kendauer9781]

@@martinwhitaker5096 Trust me, if I don't, somebody will notice. In "The Night Alive" a coin-operated electric meter is prominently featured. These simply don't exist in the US, so I bought one on Ebay. it came all the way from East Sussex, and to my surprise, it still had a pound coin in the cashbox. I got a discount!

[@Ragnar8504]

@@martinwhitaker5096 Absolutely! Often goes wrong in major productions. Wes Anderson's Grand Budapest Hotel had some scenes set in what I assume was the early 1940s and there were white plastic rocker switches all over the place, specifically East German ones from the 1980s. I think these scenes were filmed in a real location rather than a studio set so they probably couldn't change the electrics. Besides, with this being Anderson they probably didn't think twice about inconguous details, might even have included them deliberately.

[@chrisperyagh]

@@Ragnar8504 And in 'The Shining' they have a UK telly (probably a PYE or similar) in the 'REDRUM' scene when they wouldn't have had them if it was filmed in the US. I was looking out for UK wall sockets and switches but they all seem to be well hidden behind furniture. There are probably some I missed.

[@BeatboxNorwich]

What an awesome job you have sir! Nearly as good as Clive's 😜 You efforts are no doubt great ✌🏽

[@NeneExists]

Now the interesting thing is the address given for "Electrek" used to be the registered office for all the Poundland companies until November 2020, when the registered office changed to the shiny new customer support centre in the middle of Walsall, and a whole bunch of re-arranging happened dissolving a bunch of their companies. That address used to be a distribution warehouse, but it's nothing to do with Poundland any more; it's a bed warehouse I think.

[@KarldorisLambley]

wow. you have a very different opinion of what is interesting, compared to myself. well done. i always appreciate someone obsessing over fairly pointless (to me) details.

[@just-yellow]

okay

[@barrieshepherd7694]

Your preferred wiring is also mine. It is helped by the availability of triple + earth cable. I wish I had a pound for the number of times I have had to explain (sometimes to 'electricians') how two way + intermediate switching works. When my parents house was built I, who was only 14 at the time, had to convince the electrician that they could have four switches for the hall stairs light! He still got it wrong and one switch was acting as a 'master'.

[@SomeMorganSomewhere]

yeah, I usually use three-wire two-way switching, generally I use an SDI and a twin-active cable for the interconnection between the switches because that's what I have on hand. Technically under AS3000 you can use a 2C+E if you sleeve the exposed portion of the earth conductor in an an appropriate colour, but it still makes me squirmy to use an "earth" conductor for current even if the ends have been recoloured.

[@BTW...]

@@SomeMorganSomewhere Very poor practice using 2C + E that way. Just buy the correct twin active TPS and single core TPS to do a switch drop. At 1mm^2 they are small cables and easily drawn down.

[@merseyviking]

Same with my step-dad when he decided to wire the lights, and for an added bonus he got one of the switch plates rotated 90 degrees! He never did fix it 🤷

[@SomeMorganSomewhere]

@@BTW... yeah, I agree, that's why I don't use the 2C+E method ;)

[@BTW...]

@@merseyviking Rotated 90deg so it indicated a 2-way circuit? Suppose so.. not hard to do with some switchplates that can accommodate 6 clip in switch mechanisms. I might try that with a difficult to operate when my hands full kitchen 2-way I've at home.

[@kapegede]

The third method also has the downside that the life connection in the bulb is changing. That might no problem with UK sockets, but with Edison threaded sockets it is. Then you might have life on the outer threads where you can grab it, even when the bulb is dark.

[@SquishyZoran]

So the Carter System I think?

[@literarynick]

Well that's terrifying.

[@Species1571]

Also has the downside that you would need to run "life" and neutral back to the panel from both the switches.

[@rexsceleratorum1632]

@@Species1571 Not a downside if the switches are far apart and near sockets and such with both live and neutral present. In which case you have the advantage of only needing to run one wire from switch to bulb to switch, the bulb usually being somewhere between the switches.

[@rexsceleratorum1632]

@@literarynick The Edison socket terrifies me regardless. I don't trust the neutral either.

[@lawrencerubanka7087]

How much do you want to bet this was take two? The first take was, "I'll prise this apart. Now, there's a spring loaded pin in...MY EYE!..." Notice we don't see Clive's face in the video as he's wearing an eye patch. "...I don't wanna be a pirate!"

[@b3j8]

Poing! "Oh, that's not good!"

[@CrispyCircuits]

@@b3j8 "One moment, please."

[@mikehunt8968]

AKA 'A ping- fuckit'

[@dougaltolan3017]

Get out of my mind!

[@bills6946]

“A few moments later”. Out comes the eye patch.

[@AluVixapede]

I love a switch with a good crisp snap action. 3 of the switches in the house I grew up in didn't, and it always puzzled me as to why ... I found out why one year, when my mother called me over to replace a switch that she cooked by running a space heater on a switched receptacle =/ Anyway. After getting into the box? There was a nice little bead of silvery mercury! I was like "????" .. Soo, later that day I took the switch apart and yes, there was a glass disc shaped container, with some mercury still inside. -- I guess people hated that clicking sound back in the day \o.O/ I was back the next day to collect the rest of them.

[@tedhaubrich]

Hmm, I've only ran across mercury in thermostats, old car trrunk light switches and light switches where a spark might make things go boom.

[@Stevo_1998]

There's a video I got recommended ages ago, where someone was claiming the mercury switch was the 'ultimate switch' with '0 maintenance' etc. and that the only reason it's banned is because of big electric or something lol

[@cheyannei5983]

​@@Stevo_1998They don't bounce, normal snappy switches will switch on and off many times on a really tiny timescale. The contacts also never wear out, because any arc or oxide will float. They can also directly pass quite a lot of current. They'll essentially always work. Not quite enough to justify making more, but in certain applications they were unbeatable, like tipover switches for space heaters.

[@Klaevin]

I personally love clickiness in a switch, but there were a couple in my childhood home that weren't satisfying. I also get that one wouldn't want clickiness in their switch and I love the use of mercury as a solution. There has to be some applications where a smooth switch feels more "right" than a clicky one, but I can't think of any at the top of my head.

[@jamesplotkin4674]

@@Klaevin I recall the early clicky switches for room lights always sounded like throwing a breaker.

[@tim1724]

Oh. That third way explains something I saw in my grandparents' house when I was replacing the 3-way (US) light switches in their hallway. I couldn't figure out why one of the wires was seemingly a different color at one switch than at the other switch.. But thanks to your diagram, I assume the ceiling-mounted lamp (located halfway down the hall) must have been wired between the switches as shown in your third option. Ugh. None of the wiring in that house was remotely up to code (even under the ancient rules in place when it was built in 1954) but as far as I can tell it must have never been inspected properly. All of the "3-way" (UK 2-way) wiring diagrams I've ever seen in the US have shown your 2nd option, so that's what I had expected to find when I replaced those switches. (And all the other ones I've wired have been that way.)

[@rexsceleratorum1632]

Here in India if I see a wire with a different color I always assume that the electrician ran out of the wire he was using and had to run out and buy some more and got some with a different color.

[@____________________________.x]

I fear that the careers of many an aspiring Poundland Electrician have been dashed by their first installation job not working. Let’s hope their career as an aspiring Poundland Gas Engineer is more fruitful 💁‍♂️

[@handyandy6050]

1 person thrusting towards the sky, another hurtling towards the ground. As they meet at about 500 feet: "Do you know anything about parachutes"? "No, do you know anything about gas ovens"?

[@gasgas2689]

It took me precisely one week to get trained as a UK certified domestic gas 'engineer'. Then I could go and mess with heating installations, cookers, fires and so on. Then it took three years to become competent. (And I'm not a slow learner).

[@SirBoden]

Explaining the red traveler (strapper) to apprentices has always amused me. I can see the confusion build, usually followed by an eye twitch.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Third way also risks forming an arc directly between L and N if the load is heavy enough to start it.

[@AdityaMehendale]

Would that be an issue for AC/50Hz?

[@trevorkrause7220]

​​@@AdityaMehendaleAs compared to 60hz? The difference in arcing potential across the switching contacts between 50hz and 60hz is minimal with the 50hz mains having a slightly more potential for destructive potential arcing compared to 60hz, with the higher voltage of the UK domestic mains compared to the US domestic mains more likely to have an effect on arcing potential. Point of interest, if the mains frequency was reduced to dc voltage or near so, the switch would probably self-destruct on the first or second switching under load due to the prolonged sustaining arcing and short separation of the switch contacts when opened, even with only around 100 volts input.

[@AdityaMehendale]

@@trevorkrause7220 I wasn't comparing 50/60, rather was wondering whether arcing shall be a problem at all, for the ~ 10ms that the arc exists.

[@Ragnar8504]

@@AdityaMehendale Yes, absolutely! I've heard several stories of modern switches that replaced ancient DC-rated rotary or toggle switches burning out within months or even weeks in that setup.

[@jonnyduncan7056]

Excellently explained, from a Sparky..

[@brauchmernet]

In Germany it is called “Hamburger Schaltung” or Carter System. If you have a metal lamp socket (e27 e.g) you may be in for a nice surprise 😮

[@Handyman1199]

I know it as Hamburger Schaltung too. I heard it was used in the post war but thankfully its not legal anymore. i always use the basic version that Clive drew first

[@tw11tube]

I also know it as "Hamburger Sparschaltung" (Hamburg economy wiring), because assuming that you have live & neutral for free anyhow at the switches (e.g. sourced from a socket nearby), any extra conductor between the switches requires extra conductors. The first variant shown in the video requires two extra conductors, the central one requires three(!) extra conductors, whereas the non-compliant one only requires one extra conductor. The central variant is nice if you *don't* have the grid near one of the switches, because you get "live in" and "load out" at the same end.

[@mekkertroniker2002]

yes of corse, i know only eltako, and this switch is for lamp with 2 loads

[@Ragnar8504]

@@tw11tube The method gets especially interesting in a TN-C system ("klassische Nullung"). I remember reading about someone who managed to somehow cobble a switched socket into one of these circuits that then had live earth contacts half the time. Also the setup only works with DC-rated switches, modern ones just arc and burn out fairly quickly.

[@tw11tube]

@@Ragnar8504 Well, actually you can't install a socket with "klassische Nullung" (providing PE by connecting it to N inside the socket) at the load position of the "Hamburger Schaltung", as *there* *is* *no* *N* conductor, just two conductors that might potentially be live. So this installation was a failed attempt at trying to provide "klassische Nullung". The worst I experienced in this regard was sockets with missing PE (due to broken "klassische Nullung", so chassis was at 110V through the interference suppression caps, which provided an uncomfortable tingling experience. I heard about installations in West Berlin that operated on 220V 3-phase current (i.e. 220V live-to-live, *not* 380V 3-phase current with 220V live-to-neutral) well into the 1970s, so standard german household appliances were connected between two live connections. If the sockets in that installation provided PE at all, it surely had to be provided using a dedicated conductor.

[@tomwinch9107]

At 13, my father gave me 2 two-way switches, a lamp holder and bulb, a plug and flex and asked me to wire this up ... I opted for the first version which you drew (which needs a choc block to connect the live of the three & earth with the live of the twin and earth) Since then I found the second version and have used that since as it saves trying to fit the extra connection into the usually shallow back box (especially hard with a 3 gang switch!)

[@benjurqunov]

That third method is known in US as "Chicago Style". It's been prohibited 100 years or so. On occasion, I'll find examples in old buildings or newer buildings where some wanker handyman did the job.

[@jamesplotkin4674]

That would be "nephew Thomas." He's very handy.

[@SquishyZoran]

I thought it was called the Carter system?

[@kendauer9781]

A friend of mine discovered that the switches at the top and bottom of the stairway in his 19th century house were wired this way when he tried to install X10 switches for remote control.

[@hubertnnn]

The problem with this style is that when you are turning devices on and off (especially high power devices) power could find a shorter path through the bulb than through the electric line so the light will be slightly blinking.

[@Ragnar8504]

@@SquishyZoran It has dozens of names I think.

[@tonywebb9909]

Nice job C. We use the strappers here in Ireland, but previously my work in the UK was method two, which is safer but uses much more copper. These things are taught in parrot fashion and its amazing how easy it is to confuse a spark!

[@Ragnar8504]

Depends on what you're trying to achieve. In Germany, method two is known as the "wire saving 2-way" because you've got a permanent live at each switch and can easily add a neutral by running a five-core cable. With method 1 you need a six-core on one side.

[@tonywebb9909]

@@Ragnar8504 indeed Ragnar, unfortunately here in Ireland we use single core double insulated cables for lighting only. The live (phase) conductor loops to the light switches and the neutral conductor loops to each lighting load. This is purely a post war copper saving method that never should have survived the 70s, but is still allowed. So in a fault condition you will have both conductors being live at any single point. I do not use this method and prefer multi core cables as they are safer, but yes they use a lot of unnecessary copper.

[@Ragnar8504]

@@tonywebb9909 I'm in Austria where most people use singles in conduit and often junction boxes in the upper safe zone of the walls. Unless you've got a socket by the switch, the wiring is exactly as you describe, live loops down (in our case from the junction box rather than the light), switched live back up and the neutral only goes from the JB to the light. Never had any problems with that. I did use the other two-way setup once because the customer wanted multiple two-way circuits in a place with particularly flimsy walls so even one 20 mm conduit was pushing the limits, going up to 25 or running multiple conduits wasn't an option. It's also handy in places like basements or garages with exposed cables.

[@mySeaPrince_]

Yay 🐾🐾🐾 🐈 I bought some of those switches several years ago.. for 12v low current (1/2A~) lighting.. not 10A 💥 and noticed the wiring diagram didn't look right.. Took a little while to confirm my sanity... I tried trading standards they could do nothing.. typical. I'm pleased that you got to do a video about it.. If you want real fun.. start introducing diode's, combinations go crazy.

[@TopEndSpoonie]

"Was that bitchy?" No, it was stating a fact about modern training techniques in the current landscape.

[@KJ6EAD]

But they're certified electrical professionals (in a half day seminar).

[@BTW...]

@@KJ6EAD I think NOT. Certified lower than dog poo perhaps.

[@rexsceleratorum1632]

Pretty sure proper training and certification is white supremacy.

[@ralfbauerfeind8236]

The third variation was done formerly in Germany sometimes because you could save some cabeling, especially if you want an outlet directly by the switch. You have live and neutral at every switch per default, so it was dubbed "Sparschaltung" as you saved on cable. But you named the disadvantages and DANGERS of this very correctly, and it is also impossible to have a third switch added. 👍

[@gabest4]

1:30 The original instruction is an OR gate. The corrected one is XOR. Maybe you want it turn on when either is on. Maybe.

[@merseyviking]

The last one is an XOR that will kill you in the dark.

[@mekkertroniker2002]

2 switches 1 cm apart, why should that be? 2 hand safety circuit fits better. (and)=Xor?

[@jeffreyblack666]

@@mekkertroniker2002 It wouldn't be wired up with both of those switches. It would be wired up to another panel somewhere else

[@hubertnnn]

@@mekkertroniker2002 For 2 separate lights, or eg for light and a fan/ac combo

[@gregorythomas333]

A friend of mine asked me to help with with the electrics in a house that she had just purchased...there was a three-way switch in the kitchen for a light group. I had a seriously confounding problem of the switches...not only being wired in the non-compliant way...but also that they used the wrong wires to connect them. There were several things in the house that were badly wired and it took a few days to figure it all out.

[@CamelCasee]

It isn't good being that guy who simps, trust me I've been there trying to be the tech guy who fixes things for people aka women.

[@zebo-the-fat]

When I moved into my old house there was a two way switch near the front door and the other switch at the end of the hall, no idea how it was wired, one switch only had 2 wires going to it. you could turn it on or off from either switch, but if you turned it on at the door you had to turn it off at the same switch! Just to add more confusion, one switch lit the lamp at half brightness. I measured the voltage at the socket, one switch gave 240 volts, the other only 165 volts! no idea why. I fixed it by using an led lamp, the regulator in the lamp sorted out the voltage! (didn't want to start chipping the plaster off the wall to trace the cables!)

[@johnm2012]

​@@zebo-the-fatThat sounds like a serious wiring error and bodging round it isn't fixing it. You don't have to chip away plaster to trace wires if you turn off the supply and use a continuity tester. Now that you're aware that there's a problem, if you can't fix it yourself it would be negligent of you not to call in someone who can.

[@zebo-the-fat]

@@johnm2012 Probably true, but I have since moved house and the guy that bought my old place said he was going to have it rewired anyway :)

[@lesallison9047]

I suspect ​it is taking its supply from some other equipment in series. IE. Two 6v bulbs wired in series will operate on 12v perfectly, two 12v in series they light up dimly, because they would require 24v. I would recommend you talk to a professional about this! To get a clue, as to where the power is coming from turn off all breakers ( or remove fuses ) then find out which breaker is feeding your lights and from there find out what other equipment is being supplied on this circuit, and possibly the location of the low voltage supply. Hope this helps, I no expert, mostly work low voltage DC

[@davidg4288]

Nice description of 3-way (aka 2-way) wiring, also showing the use of any number of 4-way (intermediate?) switches. I'm confident enough of the wiring in my house that when replacing a light fixture I just turn off the switch, I don''t bother with the circuit breaker. The reasons NOT to do this are: - You aren't the only one home. - You have switches that leak, such as old ones with indicator lights. - You have non-compliant wiring. Extra credit for figuring out how to make a DPDT switch into an intermediate. This is really academic as real 4-way (intermediate) switches are easy to buy. Also, at least in the US dimmers (at least non-smart dimmers) are always 3-way, never 4-way, and you can only use one.

[@kgsalvage6306]

I was an electrician in the US for 40 years. I always used your first option with the common on one line, and the other load with two wires jumped between. We consider that a 3 way switch, then any more in between are 4 way. Sometimes, mainly doiing rewiring of an older building, I might us the method you prefer. All depends where the line and load wires are. Every country seems to consider it different.

[@petermichaelgreen]

I think the design and accepted usage of the accessories is also a factor. AIUI US lightswitches are typically designed for only 1 wire per terminal, while in the UK we use a different style of terminals and think nothing of putting up to three wires in a terminal. This changes which wiring method requires the least splices for a typical installation.

[@micheals1992]

I think I finally understand the issue with my old houses 2 switch problem, it would only come on with the main switch in the "on" position. If it wasn't you could click the 2nd switch at the back door and it wouldn't do anything 😅 I was only a kid, it was a council house and an electrician fixed it when the water tank in the loft leaked into the light fitting, we needed a new roof. I asked the electrician what caused it, he never answered me but he fixed it.

[@benmakemson61009]

Love your content! Its Interesting they're allowed to sell them with incorrect instructions really. Ive come across some issues when using the 2nd method (permL in L1 and swL in L2), if your 3 core to the 2way or intermediate switch is quite long, it can cause some cheap LED lamps to have a dim glow even when switched off because of the capacitive/inductance within the 3 core from permL to strappers. We tend to use the first method and wago the neutral through on the grey core.

[@jeffreyblack666]

Wouldn't you get capacitive coupling regardless of which method is used?

[@klaussfreire]

I'm in one of those countries and I've been taught to do it like that, and I always found it really sus, which is why I never install any of these switches. Glad to see better ways to do it.

[@rikwisselink-bijker]

In the Netherlands this kind of switching setup is called a hotelschakeling ('hotel switch'). I don't know why, since the common usage would be around stair (to have a switch on each floor). I would have assumed that is more common than having a switch at the door and at the bedside controlling the main light.

[@Ragnar8504]

In Sweden it's called trappkoppling (stair switch) because you often have two-ways at the top and bottom of the stairs. The German term is "Wechselschalter", alternating switch, a fairly accurate description of what a 2-way switch does.

[@ScottGrammer]

Looks like a very nice quality one amp switch

[@BTW...]

10A

[@CheapCheerful]

Return of the cheapie pen screwdriver thing! It warms my heart💖

[@rods-stuff]

Many years ago (78/79) when I was in my first year at college studying electrical engineering I was taught the first method of wiring a two switch & then inserting the intermediates into the circuit.

[@dieseldragon6756]

You have to hand it to the folks who come up with designs like this; They're surprisingly simple and low cost (Note the L1 and L2 contacts are the exact same part, but the rotational asymmetry means that one part fits different positions) yet they still tick all the boxes - Especially the _Snap!_ (Fast make/break) action of the switch to prevent arcing. A definite 💯 from me on these designs! 😁 I've been watching some U.S. focussed electrics content lately (Aye, they *do* use *black* for the live 😳) and I understand the third _„Switched Live“_ (wrong) way of wiring is quite common in older homes there, particularly those from before the mid 20th century on cost and convenience grounds. It's prohibited for new installations by current NEMA regulations, but there's still far more „Hot neutrals“ out there than we'd like to think! ⚡ Finally: Is there anything at all wrong in the fact I once employed a surplus 100A isolation switch to control a simple 40w lamp just because it was the most convenient thing to hand? It did the job, but my arm got some nice working out operating that thing... 💪❣😁

[@FamilyOfEyles]

7:36 - the 'contact shown in an unnatural position' reminds me of a trick we used to do with the stairs light when I was young: If you could get the upstairs switch to balance in that position it would 'disable' the downstairs switch - much to the annoyance of whoever was left down there in the dark!! 😅😅😅😅

[@joelmurphy9369]

Thank you for the x-ray view into the switch!

[@imqqmi]

As a kid I used to prank with the lightswitches forcing them to slowly make half contact and the lights would dim and flicker. This worked only with tungsten lights for obvious reasons, and destroy the switch due to excessive arcing. Good times.

[@NOWThatsRichy]

You could do that with the old MK toggle switches, but not the newer Logic ones.

[@Ragnar8504]

I once had an older (80s I think) Legrand switch get stuck in that middle position, probably due to some dirt having gotten inside during the previous renovation. Working it a few times fixed the problem and it's still there, over 20 years later.

[@phils4634]

A little bit different to the switches we use "Down Under". Most of mine are two - way, even those used as mains power switches. The advantage is that if you have a duff switch, there's no need to change the faceplate - just replace the switch, and you're ok to go. The same enclosures can be used to accommodate indicators, and variable light controllers.

[@Ragnar8504]

Sounds like the way we do it in continental Europe.

[@martinkrehl1478]

There is another big issue with the third method: If you are switching inductive loads like flourescent lights (big choke) there will be quite a spark when switching of. This might trigger a sparkover (i.e. a short circuit) between the passive contacts and thus between L and N. I once had a hard time to debug this in a neighbour’s garage: Every once in a while the breakers tripped when he switched off the lights. Changing the wiring to method 2 solved the problem.

[@gasgas2689]

Also a spark helps in the process of designing and building a new house when your old one had a gas leak. Provided you were away on holiday at the time, of course.

[@andrewc9235]

Wiring method can depend on the cabling method being used. Eg single insulated cables in a conduit or double insulated pvc/pvc flat cables clipped.

[@champgamer4394]

Love your voice. Very soothing

[@marcse7en]

I'm glad I switched-on your video, Big Clive, so I don't get my two-way wires in a twist! Wouldn't want an Electrek ⚡ shock, courtesy of Poundland! 🤣

[@GreysonWilde]

The top way of wiring three ways is how I learned, and it works perfectly. Note: I'm from the US where it is apparently perfectly fine to wire half a bedroom through the bathroom switch (that was a fun one to figure out.)

[@Bushougoma]

The 3 way switch diagram would work if the live from the panel went to the common on one of the switches (doesn't matter which one) and the switched live to the load was connected to the common of the other switch. That's one of 3 methods we use to wire 3 way switches in the US. The traveler wires (what you call L1 and L2) would just connect between the switches.

[@uni-byte]

Your fist schematic is the way I have always done it. Aren't you glad to have the Uni-Byte stamp of approval?

[@nimoy007]

I don't recall Clive ever drawing a fist, though he did a nasty number on his hand recently. :P

[@markfergerson2145]

No, your comment wasn’t bitchy. It was good advice to deter frustration, and possible fires and other undesirable outcomes like horrific burns, electrical,shocks and death. While watching you take that thing apart I suddenly realized that many viewers are probably wondering how you knew where to pry and what to expect. Many of us who are technologically adept, who “have the spark”, start at an early age looking at complex things as collections of interlocking parts, often taking them apart destructively. Since most technologies are built to standards we eventually notice that we keep running into the same sub-technologies like screws and clips and whatnot. Sometimes it’s not obvious from the outside which choices were made, prompting us to ask questions like “I can’t find any screws- is this clipped together or glued?”. Those who don’t have the spark or never had the opportunity to dismantle random stuff will marvel at the apparently magical intuition we have for these things. It’s not magical, it’s not intuition. It involves breaking things (sometimes irreplaceable things), acquiring cuts, bruises and burns, and eventually a deep satisfaction that comes when you see something entirely new to you that you just know how to take apart… and often reassemble. It’s never too late to start. Watch more videos like this, acquire tools, find stuff to take apart that you don’t mind destroying, and be prepared for those cuts, bruises and burns. The reward is definitely worth it even if you never get work doing it.

[@RedRouge-j4j]

second wiring option is called the California circuit. It uses 3 wires from switch to switch, but allow for multiple spurs to lightbulbs elsewhere switched from the same switches, and also leaves line (sic) available for other things if there is a neutral available. Which the first (2 wire) circuit doesn't. I told my distant cousin who graduated in the 50's and he had never heard of it.

[@hubertnnn]

That is an interesting approach to switches. All switches I have seen had the rocker mounted into the casing instead of being loose with one side being able to touch L1 and the other side L2, and common being provided to the pivot point of the rocker itself. This above/below approach seems interesting since it allows L1 and L2 to be on the same side of switch rather than on 2 different sides.

[@teardowndan5364]

The "3rd-way" (often called "Chicago 3-way") probably isn't very common beyond old houses using bare wire on tube insulators since it requires having L+N at both ends with single wires going to the loads from each switch.

[@Smidge204]

Bonus danger: In North America where we have split phase, there are two different "Live" that are 240v apart and 180 degrees out of phase. If you don't use the same leg for both ends you have created a dead short across 240v...

[@michaeltempsch5282]

​@@Smidge204 Many places in Europe have 3 phase (even in a small apartment), with about 400V between phases (230V phase2neutral)

[@BTW...]

@@Smidge204 Can't be 180 phase shift. It's 120 phase difference AND there are 3 phases available in the street distribution network. I guess it is possible to have those 'spit phases' appear on a lighting circuit there in USA, because any unqualified DIY moron can wire up a home legally there. 🤦‍♂

[@HiddenWindshield]

@@BTW... Yes, the wiring in most residential homes has two phases, 180 degrees apart. A single phase from the grid is fed to a center-tapped transformer, and each end of the transformer's output becomes one of the phases, with the center tap being neutral.

[@tw11tube]

The hallway example mentioned in another reply is the perfect motivating example for the "Chicago 3-way". At the ends of the hallway, near the switches, you might have outlets as well, so L+N are already at both ends. Now the only wiring you need to strap to the lamp in the center of the hallway is a single conductor from either end, which beats all the other solutions in the amount of conductors used. Thankfully, "amount of conductors used" is not a valid reason to violate code.

[@g7mks383]

Were we all just waiting for all the bits to go into outer orbit. Thanks always interesting.

[@Steve-GM0HUU]

👍Thanks for video. I don't think I have ever seen the third method. Can't say I like the idea of a connection alternating between live and neautral as you operate the switch.

[@UKbrownSkinBoy]

Clive, you be an absolute electical Gang STAR

[@jeffreyblack666]

I would say the way to wire the switch depends on what you want to do. The normal way most people wire it is so either switch is capable of toggling the state. But an alternative is to make it so either switch can turn it on, but both need to be off to make it off.

[@louiel8711]

It really gets me how some people do electrical work i live in the US, someone changed out my basement breaker with a 20 amp when it was wired with 14 awg wire, its now wired correctly with 12awg and proper amount of lights and outlets there were only 2 lights and 1 outlet

[@handyandy6050]

Thank You for your excellent explanations, Clive.

[@RylanceStreet]

I remember my father explaining to me some 50+ years how to wire the landing light, which had switches at the top and bottom of the stairs. It was method 3, with one switch fed by the upstairs lighting supply and the other by the downstairs supply. So depending on the switch positions the light could have been powered by either of two fuses in the main fuse box! His father had been an electrician, so perhaps that is how they wired houses in Leicester in the first half of the last century.

[@JfromUK_]

"Was that bitchy?" 😂 Nah you're alright Clive, we were all thinking it. Interesting to hear your familiarity with why these things are sold in Poundland!

[@peterjensen6844]

Over Center you say? PAGING THIS OLD TONY! :P

[@southcalder]

Do you know I’ve never considered going to Poundland for my home electrical needs. This video has not changed that.

[@mxslick50]

You are correct that here in the U.S. they are called three way, which makes no sense since only two are possible in the circuit. Even better, if you want three (or more) switch locations..you use a four way switch. 😮😅 And as another pointed out, we call you snappers as "travellers".

[@Chris-hf2sl]

Maybe the light bulb is counted as one of the 'ways'?

[@jeffreyblack666]

Probably for a similar reason a 3-way intersection is named that. If you consider the wires, there are 3 paths. Anything coming in one of these paths have 2 different paths they can take depending on the switch. Likewise, for the 4 way switch, there are 4 paths/wires. But now you can't go through every path.

[@trueriver1950]

The US terminology counts the terminals to the switch: it's a switch having three wires going into it, so they figure three ways into the switch. The UK naming counts the number of wires that are controlled by the switch, hence two way. The middle switch when needing to control from three locations is logically known in the US as four way, again counting the total connections. In the UK it's usually known as an intermediate switch, to give DIY electricians a clue about where it goes in the circuit. Both naming systems make sense, once you grasp the logic behind them: and both look equally daft to someone only familiar with the other way of naming. Similarly with the logic of how e count the floor number in a building -- logical on each side of the pond but confusing to visitors

[@stoatystoat174]

4:41 this is giving me flashbacks to trying to get the battery out of a behringer guitar pedal :) (edit: on a seperate note, guitar plectrums (plectra?) are excellent spudgers, used one to remove cracked phone screen for replacement)

[@chrisrichard298]

The "non compliant" method is known as the "Chicago 3 way" here in the states. Also very much non-compliant and against national electrical code here. Your second method at the top of your drawing is, I think, what we refer to as a California 3 way. I don't remember off-hand if it meets code here in the states, but it's generally frowned upon. The first method you drew is the preferred method here in the states as well. Recent code has now mandated that all boxes have a neutral available to accommodate smart switches and such, so things like the "switch loop" where you'd have the feed cable coming into the box with the fixture, then breaking the hot by sending it down a single cable (romex/twin&earth) to the switch on one conductor and back on the other, are not allowed anymore. I never cared for seeing the neutral wire used as a hot leg, but it used to be very common. Now you'd have to use three conductor cable to wire it this way and honestly, what's the point.

[@RonParker]

The California 3-way can be code-compliant, as long as you meet the neutral requirements. But the same is true of the "correct" method. The code doesn't actually require a neutral in every box. It requires a neutral in at least one box, or in every box that isn't visible from the other boxes. The idea seems to be that if the box could contain a motion-sensing switch, it needs a neutral. It's just easier to put a neutral in every box than it is to explain the actual requirements.

[@clivequinn8978]

We used to call your way a one way to two way conversion, used when people extended their kitchen or other room.

[@chuckthetekkie]

Over a decade ago we had our house remodeled and the main floor hallway light had a 2-way switch and I guess the electrician followed those misprinted instructions as it didn't work as intended. It's always fascinating how different countries use different terms. As someone else mentioned we call that wire a traveler.

[@Ragnar8504]

A classmate once told me that his mom (a maths teacher) had replaced the kitchen light switch. Now they could either have the light on or listen to the radio but not both (she connected the live feed to the socket next to the switch to L2 rather than Com together with the feed in). I told him it was an easy fix but he politely declined, they'd gotten so used to this state of things they didn't want to change it.

[@Melds]

The top three way wiring, with one minor adjustment, is called a California three-way. It's connected the same except that the hot (line) would be connected to the left switch while the load would stay where it is. It's not recommended anymore since it traverses the length a variable one or three times, vs two times with the hot and load on the same side or one time with the traveler configuration.

[@amorphuc]

Thanks Big Clive.

[@KarldorisLambley]

the first thing i did in my home after learning about electronics was replacing a broken switch with one much like yours. it still has the switch upside down as I cocked up the installation.

[@Adam_151]

I've always known it as the traditional/conduit method vs the conversion method. I often use the traditional method when looping at the switch - send a 3c&E over to the other switch carrying two strappers and the neutral. Means one less cable per gang at the switch with the feed at it. just remember to transpose L1/L2 at one end so that switches in the same position = off, or it annoys my OCD

[@garypautard1069]

Your second preferred method with 3 strappers is of course for twin & earth under floor cables and the first for single cables in conduit or tubing. There is another method by fitting a junction box in the centre of the strappers and wiring your switch lines into the box. Let's be honest it's scary that amateurs and homeowners who have no electrical knowledge are buying switches and sockets etc. from shops.

[@FalloenMatrix]

I'm installing one wall switch, not so cheap, right now... good timing !

[@marquisdemoo1792]

Using your second method the load can be connected at either or both ends. I needed to add a light at the bottom of the stairs, so I used this to provide a switched live to it from the downstairs switch, running a neutral to the light directly from the adjacent distribution board. This worked fine until an electrician replaced the distribution board and connected the direct neutral to busbar for the downstairs circuits, the upstairs lights being on a different RCD, thereby causing an imbalance between the two RCDs when the light was switched on. To be fair, having told him that I had fed a separate neutral to the downstairs light he was quicker in working out why the RCDs tripped than I was.

[@kimsleep4111]

The first test in my electricity class was this to do this wiring correctly...thats HIGH SCHOOL!!!!...GRADE 7!!!!!!!

[@Electronics-Rocks]

I have found the non complaint method in the UK. It did make me scratch my head as confusing at first seeing it & not expecting it.

[@sylviaelse5086]

I love the method where a fault inside the switch mechanism itself can create a direct short and take out half the lighting in the house.

[@Ragnar8504]

Even too small a contact gap can cause a short, and all rocker switches that I know of (and US "silent" toggles) don't have a large enough contact gap. Apparently these switches fail within a few months if you try that stunt.

[@imaginitivity7853]

It does seem generally to be beyond the electricians that have worked on my house in France and another I'm familiar with in Norway. I'm both instances, unless BOTH switches are on, the light won't come on. Really convenient to have to run to the other switch in case it's been turned off there previously. Additionally in the French homes I've seen there is a relay on the fuse board. Rather than try to comprehend the wiring using switched live as you've shown here, the attached wall switches operate this relay, which then controls the related lighting circuit. Cumbersome and additionally expensive, but simple to understand I suppose

[@NeilRashbrook]

When I bought my current house one of the switches was "upside-down" relative to how I wanted it, but was a two-way switch. I looked inside and it didn't match the first method that I already knew about so I did my research and that's why I now also know about the second method. (Either way I just had to switch L1 and L2 but I wanted to be sure.)

[@Bastler95m]

the non complient circuit is known in germany as "Hamburger Schaltung" (Hamburg circuit) and from what I've heard was done to add two way switching to a existing light circuit without needing to pull multiple wires from switch to switch but only a single wire to the light. also the circuit is not only dangerous with the old switches it was installed with but also with newer switches it can go bang when switching between the L and N

[@phile3131]

When I was an apprentice the version you show on the top (with the 3 core cable) was known as the conversion method.

[@Mrbobinge]

Yes we called those wires Straps in the old days (1956 at Tech school in Durban). Live and Load wires respectively to each Common. Hadn't heard of your alternative routing. Good one. Intermediate switches - forgotten if they were different design?

[@PCr4zy]

D: ... and I bought couple of $2 switches and thought; what a great bargain.

[@KevinT3141]

By Grapthar's hammer, what a savings!

[@mortqqq]

Whenever he says "Hmmm ... not that easy" when disassembling something, I always wonder if the design engineer wasn't thinking "Let's see if we can't get this one past Clive".

[@o0OMouseO0o]

Today I learned about intermediate switches after living in a house for 25 years with three stairs landings and those awful timer push switches and never worked out how to do it with the more common change over switch instead of the whole place going dark every 15 seconds.

[@Ragnar8504]

These days you'd probably replace the whole lot with motion detectors. You can also get latching relays to replace the timer without any changes to the wiring. Or just set the timer to more than 15 seconds 😅

[@freepress8451]

Owned 2 properties (split level flat and a semi) and I used to hate those double/triple switched circuits (entrance, landing 1, landing 2 , , , even landing 3) as the wiring in the ceiling roses was frequently messy making the fitment of a new light feature such a bind - plus remembering to firmly switch on or off else circuit will be open and not work, applies to cheap switches not MK

[@bandit4550]

My parents still have their original LK switches (a Danish company that still makes switches) from when my father built the house 60 years ago 😮😊

[@JendaLinda]

This switch looks quite old fashioned. We were using switches like this in the 80s. Nowadays the entire switching mechanism is hidden under the cover. The advantage is you can use the entire cover to control the swicth and the covers are available in different styles and colors. Switches are sold in three parts - the swicth itself, the cover and the matching bezel. You can also put multiple switches inside a multi bezel. Power outlets are also made in the same style as switches and they can be combined together.

[@mxslick50]

In the US there was a line of devices branded as "Despard" built just like that. They were versatile, but very expensive and not durable.

[@SeanBZA]

Yes lucky by me mixed sockets and lights are not common, so the styles can be similar, but not mix and match.

[@NinoJoel]

​@@mxslick50 as an electrician from Germany that traveled to the us and Canada several times it still amazes me what differece in electricial standards the US has compared to most of the West. Some stuff you guys use every day is something I haven't seen here in Germany for decades. Switches and sockets with seperate switching mechanism and seperate frames / inleys / styles are completely normale here for well over 4 decades now

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

I grew up in a country that had them wired in a non compliant way. But getting zapped on 220V was "bearable". Spending some time in the UK I got zapped only once on 240V and noticed the extra to the point that I never wanted to feel it again. Then in the US their 117V 50 Hz is just a little tingle. Good quality bulbs seemed to last forever until them CFL caused a mess. In Western Australia they had a nominated mains of 254V back in the 80's. You slammed the toilet door and the filament was history. Fancy how Poundland gets away with faulty instructions.

[@simonbenjamins5175]

How bearable it is depends highly on the floor (concrete vs wood), flooring (tiles vs carpet) and the shoes you wear. All these things influence the resistance between you and the neutral.

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

@@simonbenjamins5175 Yes the resistance to ground and of course how dry your skin was all adds up. Also when you are young you can take a lot. Nowadays I even avoid them tense machines in memory. Come to think Japan has its country split between 50 and 60 Hz. It would make sense to go all on 60 in my opinion.

[@brianpiddock6074]

Hi Clive If you look in the OSG section 7 shows the preferred method of 2 way lighting to help eliminate problems with hearing aid induction loops.

[@brianallen9810]

Your first drawing is how I've always done it. Those european switches really look weird to me, same for your house wiring. I do like your appliance and light plugs and outlets, much safer than the ones we have in Canada and the U.S.

[@paulwright8378]

I'm rubbish at wiring 2 way switches, just wish you could draw that on your notebook then i could do it properly, good to hear from you again as I've been searching for answers to something

[@jonnyduncan7056]

In the UK there is a fourth way that involved joint boxes in the loft and taping into the three cores and earth. Commonly done in the 60's and 70's wiring..

[@BrettCooper4702]

Great safety example, thanks

[@robt2151]

Seems to be a quality product than is normal on this channel!! I use a variation of your first circuit, with a dimmer in the primary feed; this gives a way of disconnecting the circuit if the bulb fails, without having to guess about the position of the main switches. Works ok but the load must be less than the rating for the dimmer.

[@BTW...]

Your 'way' of dimmer installation is hazardous because the supply Active is always on at the dimmer module.

[@robt2151]

@@BTW... A valid observation. I should have mentioned that the dimmer has an integral on-off switch that does cut the current.

[@nekowolf583]

Instructions unclear, wired the mains to my pokeball and accidently killed Pikachu.

[@nimoy007]

I assume you are referring to the drawing at 3:40? XD Also, I feel like Pikachu is the LEAST likely to be affected by being plugged in!

[@lawrencerubanka7087]

​@@nimoy007 Very good point!

[@interstat2222]

I believe all 'Status' brand electrical accessories are made by PMS of Hong Kong (also OEM to CPC's ProElec). Very long established lower cost but OK company. Used to be OEM for some JoJo/Schneider, Micromark (80s/90s/00s British brands) and Masterplug pre-2007(ish). I quite like their plugs and extensions but better quality available from others.

[@pineappleroad]

Before watching any further, im going to note what I think the problem with the wiring diagram is If wired as shown, you would be able to turn the light on from either position, but you would not be able to turn it off again from the other switch

[@frogz]

your highly non compliant way of switching both the neutral and the live is especially fun if you take into account both hots could be different phases as well, both switches would work independently when turned on but if BOTH are on you get double the voltage on the device!

[@prjndigo]

Remember years ago when a bunch of people argued for days in the comments about the correct way to wire these?

[@curtisj2165]

That switch is quite good actually, you can swap those modules for another type such as an intermediate module

[@Jimmyfisher121]

Thank you Clive very informative.

[@davidbarts6144]

The third one is called the “Carter system” in the USA. It’s been disallowed by the National Electrical Code since 1923.

[@flawmore]

I always use the first alternative that you drew. Which countries use the ungodly 3rd version?