power divider rebuild mystery dsp41

rebuilding the power divider on a dana Spicer (Eaton) dsp 41 on old red. didn't really find a smoking gun to the issue but it does seem to be fixed.

[@raymondbradley6788]

Ezra, that is frustrating to not find something catastrophically wrong. Hopefully you nailed it. Sounds like that might’ve been what we were going on but only will know under a load. Awesome video brother. Thanks.👍👍👍

[@Ezrider359]

Would have been nice to find a smoking gun

[@ponway]

Had a DS 404 doing the same same thing, I kind of wondered if it wasn’t fully locking up. But before I tore into it, I ended up doing a cut off swap like you did, and it’s laying out back yet to be investigated! Great work!

[@mitchless1589]

check airflow/pressure to the actuator. sometimes I put a few drops of air tool oil in it too

[@SumterWrecker]

Mr Ezra Thanks for sharing and stay safe

[@Ezrider359]

thanks for watching hal

[@mgtowquietearp506]

I found on my 94 379, the air actuator had an air leak and wasn't engaging the shift fork completely!

[@abc-jd9se]

That’s my thought too. Binding actuator, leaking actuator, restricted air line, etc

[@budatkins5917]

Thats where I was going too@@abc-jd9se

[@hankhill3263]

You're fu**in awesome bro, thanks so much for the video, I know its probably a pain in the ass making these videos while you're doing important work like this, I just wanna say I really appreciate your videos and your effort Ezra, the hardest working and smartest man on KZbin!!! Just puttin it out there - we know you're busy out on the road every week but I'd love to see what you do thru the week too, if ya get the chance can ya get some footage of your day to day work activities? Thanks again ol buddy - can't wait for your next videos!!! Be careful out there ol buddy!!!

[@alecc3094]

In UK that power divider is called an inter axle diff lock and for many tears now double drive bogies like this one would also have a cross lock on each axle to make both wheels drive together. Worked really well in a staight line but a typical 3 axle rigid would not respond to the helm on slippery surfaces so you needed to disengage asap.

[@Ezrider359]

potato potato, both terms are used here no cross locks on these rear ends. i may put at least one cross lock in a some point.

[@eddieweigel9490]

Great job

[@largesleepermadness6648]

As mentioned in the thread, the air actuator for the diff lock was an issue on my 2006 kw.

[@Jerseytrucker911]

👏👏👏🤜🤛.. great job, thanks for sharing!

[@cameronnerdin4910]

AHHH THAT SINKING FEELING WHEN YOU SPENT A BUNCH OF TIME AND MONEY, and your not sure if that was the problem. Been there done that. I hope the problem was the slow or catching engagement. Seams to be a possibility. I know, when I engage my lock, I never so it while moving. I also stop to disengage them. Most people say you do not have to, but so far no problems with mine. I feel for you.

[@rce8540]

Great show easy Ryder.

[@tomgriffith1952]

Nice work!

[@russellgier5489]

I had one do the same thing and it was a combination of the thrust washer, shifter collar and arm

[@jeffreykreft5442]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the fork actuator is probably the culprit. I don't work on these, but from what I'm seeing here that's the only thing left.

[@katmandu8208]

👍🏻🍻

[@stevenpoff6273]

Well hopefully that fixed the issue that you were having😊😊

[@LightningFabrication]

Hey Ezra, it's got to be frustrating that there wasn't a definite problem that presented it's self when you took the power divider off. I know you wanted to check the spider and axle gears in the differential but that would have meant pulling the 3rd members. However on the front differential you could see the housing and the ends of the spider gear cross. If you wanted you could have installed one axle and spun the the pinion. The axle would have held the axle gear steady while the spiders and other axle gear turned. Doing this would have let you feel if there was any binding. In my opinion if any of the spider gears were broken, you wouldn't have any movement either forward or reverse if there were damage to the spiders in the rear differential. if there were damage to the spiders in the front differential you wouldn't have forward or reverse with the power divider unlocked but if locked you would have forward and reverse through the rear differential. I think you might have found the problem. With the wear on the fork and the splines on the shaft being a little buggered up, the shift sleeve might not have been fully engaging. When all the torque was applied, there might have been enough force on the fork to overcome the tension on the spring allowing the sleeve to disengaging the power divider. When the power divider isn't engaged power is routed to the wheels on both axles with the least traction. There is still torque on both axles so I'm thinking that there might not be as much damage to the sliding sleeve when it popped . Just a theory which might explain why there wasn't catastrophic failure. it will be interesting to hear if the repairs fixed the problem.

[@Ezrider359]

i did check the spiders on both rear ends by spinning them with one axle and feeling for any excessive lash or crunchyness or anything like that. i didn't really feel that that would be a issue anyways as on level ground with even traction you can apply enough torque to just about pick the front wheel off the ground and nothing will skip or jump, it was only when applying a load on the powerdivider itself. this video was recorded about a month ago and its been working fine but i probably really wont know for sure if its fixed till we get into road construction season

[@LightningFabrication]

@@Ezrider359 Okay glad to hear it's been working well. I hope it will continue to work later during construction season.

[@MemmenTrucking-zm2cy]

He went in blindly - Brave enough soul but not necessarily best way to go - Use a couple same size bolts a few inches longer with the bolt heads cut off and you can slide it off at your own leasure - I did it eons ago with a Munci M22 Rock Crusher all aluminum body close ratio 4 speed when I was a teen - Entire tranny weighed about 70 lbs and I was able to lay it on my chest and roll it to the side - Big trucks are a whole different animal but a lot of the principals are cousin like or even the same sometimes

[@dont9098]

Hi Ezra Another great learning video Thanks, What was your actuator like ? maybe that was jamming ? just a thought Hopefully you have it fixed now, Take Care

[@Ezrider359]

nothing apparently wrong. its just a cap a piston and a couple o rings it was cleaned new seals and checked for function

[@mjkrigging6374]

Was it an air problem

[@RMTTR640]

What was the end play on the input shaft when it was all reassembled?

[@jasonlukasik5595]

How is it that I can smell this video?

[@josephhanscom8306]

Maybe it's an air pressure issue it's not getting enough air pressure to hold it in gear all the way

[@bbrcummins1984]

👍✌️

[@rodger996]

Should of kept front guts in front cover and removed as a whole.

[@Ezrider359]

Pretty sure it would come apart like that even if you tried

[@signalcar]

The good side of not having parts with serious damage shows how well the truck is cared for and well driven, certainly that fork and those chewed splines did the bad thing, in any case it's good to know that all the splines on the axles are fine and the set is revised. Keep up the good work, greetings from Brazil!

[@carlthor91]

As you mentioned, plus a possibly weak actuator, and the dogs can't engage properly, so the jump.

[@JamesPretty]

Frustrating to spend all day and in the end hope it’s fixed. Great job as always

[@Ezrider359]

Sure would have liked to have found a smoking gun but so far it seems to be fixed 🤷

[@DoggyDogYT]

This guy knows his stuff! Man we need more men like him! Taking pride in his craft! God bless you brother!

[@davidpawson7393]

I haven't, currently don't and never will own a commercial truck but I'm here because he handles business himself and builds what he wants. I completely agree with the world needing more like him.

[@lionsdejudah]

He just said himself at 11:57 that he didn’t know much about rebuilding the power divider.

[@lionsdejudah]

Those gears didn’t need to be replaced as stated by the repair shop he took them to.

[@peteengard9966]

Had one doing the same thing. Turned out the hose to the actuator was collapsed inside not giving it the volume of air it needs to overcome the return spring and keep it engaged under load. I went through the same thing you did but only changed out the fork. Then tied in an air gauge under the actuator inlet and only got 30 psi but climbed up slowly to 120 after about ten seconds. That was the moment I realized the inside of the hose was falling apart. There was little bits of rubber jammed in the elbow going to the actuator.

[@iamrichrocker]

do not think folks understand the effort, expense and stress an owner/operator has to deal with on a monthly basis..downtime is loss of revenue in razor thin profit industry..wout truckers the country/world would come to a standstill..

[@ronthompson3525]

Well sometimes just throwing parts works. But it’s frustrating when you can’t actually find something wrong. Hope the issue is resolved. Take care ✌️

[@isaacsims6203]

🙂

[@joshrappl4878]

From what you are describing it sounds like 2 teeth are broken off of the ring gear hard to inspect it good with out pulling diff. Pinion makes contact with 2 teeth while spinning. Generally one tooth could be broken for years and never know. Once the second consecutive tooth breaks you might get gear jump like you are talking. Then shock loading issues. Was almost sure it was a ring gear when I started watching. Was off my rocker when you didn't pull the diff to check ring gear. I'm a belly dumper so soft ground and broken diffs are just part of the game. Most of the time for us it is a broken ring gear or spider gear.

[@kidsteach938]

Nice episode, Ezra. I was beginning to think the same way...that the divider was not fully engaged. That shift fork just might explain things. Good luck and look forward to seeing how it all works out!

[@anastasiszaroliagis5066]

Remember always, if tyres of 1st and 2nd axle have uneven wear the system didnot work properly...do not waste your time...😊😊

[@tater_relocater]

My thought was the actuator wasn’t working properly and overcoming the spring pressure on the fork.

[@randystrunk9774]

If you want to test it, remove the rear driveshaft & drive it on the front rear. Mine showed itself real fast.

[@simonharris1804]

What transmission do you have Is it a fifteen speed with deep reduction When it was in deep reduction it would kick out by itself with a almighty bang back into gear Could be air related not enough pressure or wear on selector synchro Might be worth checking Only did it loaded

[@TheRoadhammer379]

My power divider blew up because I didn't catch the fact that my driveshaft seized on the splines, hit bumps off road and the shaft was beating the shyt out of the case

[@billtodd6509]

EZ, I had one IH do the same type thing with us and here the leveling valve would sometimes let enough air out of the bags to change the angle on the driveline enough to give you that seat of the pants feeling of the truck seeming to squirm when you were on soft ground, Bill

[@Ezrider359]

This was a obvious slip and then bang back in. Very different than a u joints bind or vibration

[@billtodd6509]

Im sure that you will get it sorted out. Let us know if problem goes away.@@Ezrider359

[@stephenrichardson6105]

Soon as you took it apart and found nothing obvious I was wondering if it was the actuator/folk not holding the gear and jumping Banging in and out

[@koshtie]

Hi Ezra that sure was a strange one ? nothing stood out, Fingers crossed she's all good, ATB Wayne UK......

[@darrylwindle5331]

MAYBE THE SHIFT FORK WAS NOT ENGAGING PROPERLY?????

[@etcllc3519]

We love your videos and how you share your knowledge with the public. Sorry to say, we are closing our business and getting out of the industry. 29 years is enough! We’ve got a 94’ KW 900 for sale ($40k) with a CAT 3406B that has 67k on a fresh inframe with all CAT parts and done by a CAT dealer. Too many new parts to list but have receipts for everything for the past five years! Should you know anyone interested up there in farm country, please let us know. Keep up the good work and God bless.

[@Xkekeskfndsmw]

Any updates? Have you found a situation to test the issue yet? Spring break-up might put it to the test?

[@boevatt9152]

Wouldn't it be the backside to drop the back driveway

[@mitchless1589]

power divider in my 2015 does the same thing..

[@rdavila26]

I had something similar happened to me , turn out it was a worn out yoke on the drive line

[@re9947]

Keep us posted Chivo.

[@jims6323]

How about the piston that engages the clutch blowing by?

[@stevencampanella]

I am having the exact same issue. Did this fix it?

[@mudpuppy2158]

mine did same thing and it was side bearing that holds ring gear

[@michelgodin5563]

you make my sunday, glad for video

[@garykirk1968]

Does the truck have locking differentials? Could be one of those, the power divider just connects the front and rear tandems, if one locker or the other is slipping Could cause an issue similar to what you're describing. Edit to add; You could also put a pressure gauge on the air input back there, make sure it is getting full system pressure. Low air pressure for whate er reason can cause it not to fully engage.

[@Ezrider359]

No cross locks pressure was checked previously

[@mikesautotruckrepairinc.cr5621]

@@Ezrider359 Usually something like that will not be pressure related due to the back cut on the dog clutch notches.Not sure if you used genuine parts but possibly a revision on the notches eg revisions on Mack syncro hub tooth design.Good luck.

[@nateclardy1690]

Broke tooth and front rear end pull chunk out

[@johncarlson207]

Check air pressure at power divider

[@lox_501]

Great job the bud. It's nice to see what a differential looks like on the inside. Massive gears!

[@tommyhall2768]

Hellow buddy an Ole red good luck

[@edwarddavis507]

EZ did you sell your Mack

[@bigmackstruckstop9213]

Good to see you Ezra, thank you for the education of your 359 peterbilt, there's stuff I didn't know about,I know I can learn from you and your show, so I'll catch ya on the next one 😊

[@mattheusbeukes6809]

Hi EZ I had that problem one time and it was the valve that didn't send enough air through and I also stripped like u and saw nothing

[@Ezrider359]

Valve and supply pressure was checked long before tearing into it

[@LouisRoman-p7y]

Thanks for sharingl

[@tossedsalad5532]

There is 1 thing for certain you get a TAX break on all the cash spent on parts. All Joking aside U-Joint issue even if they are New some lock or Hitch causing that type of issue. We had 1 U-Joint mystify us while we rebuilt A tons on rear end components. End result was U-Joint and a out of alignment Differential causing the problem. The diff was out of Alignment and cause a U-Joint to intermittently bind

[@edtoebes]

I was thinking the same thing. If a joint was sticking and under pressure it was skipping, it might cause what he is sensing

[@Ezrider359]

Not the issue here but appreciate the input

[@hankhill3263]

​@Ezrider359 I was not a driveline mechanic at all, I was lucky enough to have some mechanics near me that specializes in everything in the driveline, they always kept me pretty well straightened out, I always had enough sense to know when there was a problem so I just took it to them and they always knew the problem right away - Midwest Rebuilds in Fort Recovery Ohio, great bunch of guys there if anyone ever needs any help from that area

[@ryancarter7167]

I had one skip like that under load and the fork was bent and worn. Mine had wear in the compensator that made excessive clearance but seems like the slider needs to e gauge all the way for a solid lock.

[@hammers1518]

Hope all is good Ez

[@derrickhillier1173]

What's the issue Your having Ezrider?

[@taylorcovert6226]

Replace air lines

[@69hayes48]

transmission ?

[@mikemaccracken3112]

Thanks for the video Ezra. I know exactly how you feel when I have to use my best educated guess when I didn’t find the clear failure.

[@wotnoturbo]

Check the air pressure at the actuator when its engaged, the only thing holding the teeth in mesh is whatever the air pressure is set too, if this is too low that may cause the teeth to cam out under load.

[@youtubeisawesome2487]

some trucks set it up to run only in low side of the transmission and you only get the 65 psi from the regulator, very dumb but keeps idiots from burning it up from forgetting to turn it off .

[@goldprogoldpro7809]

could it be low/leaking/blocked air pressure to the shift fork?

[@marysoldeeley2218]

Good thing you remembered to drain the oil before it poured out onto you! That's always a bonus! Well, this sounds like a Big Red Mystery! This was a great learning opportunity! Now if there is any other issues with power dividers. You will know what you are getting into, what to check and what to expect! Thanks for showing us all this! I was curious what all that looked like in there all put together!

[@CMDSR]

I think a good gear jammer started noticing there was a problem and corrected it before major damage occurred. Good thing you didn’t find any major damage there driver. Bad thing no major damage makes it harder to find a cause. Hope that fixes the problems in soft ground.

[@wadelevan1787]

I guess if enough components have a small amount of wear, the cumulative effect could be equivalent of one component with heavy wear. “Within spec” is not the same as optimal.

[@trevorthompson2501]

Replace o-ring in the front cover you pulled off. It’s what slides the shift fork back and forth. They get old and worn and can have a hard time engaging the power divider or not engage it at all.

[@robertquast9684]

Our 377 runs ds 402 rears. We had a bunch of power divider problems after changing the original. Finally went to a different reman place. Never figured out what they were doing wrong but 100k pounds self destructs them pretty quickly and throughly. Hopefully it’s fixed so you aren’t down in season

[@davidanddiana7173]

Yes sir my truck does the same thing 2003 peterbilt never found anything wrong

[@jay600katana]

Another good video, good to see ol'red. Throwing parts at shit until its fixed sucks, I had a trailer that I did that with. Hope everything works out, keep the wheels spinnin' and the beavers grinn'in bud.

[@matthoward923]

Just got done replacing the power divider on my truck two weeks ago. Lost the front bearing at the yoke. My back hurts for you.

[@nightsailor1]

Is the clutch moving sharply and holding location? Is it worn? Is the supply correct and the delector switch like new? does it disengage positively?

[@matthewhansen5008]

I had some engagement issues on a dsp40 rear end. You could hear air leaking into the rear end housing with the truck turned off and divider locked in. Replaced O ring on engagement piston. Fixed my troubles. Just a thought that could be a slight leak and it not be holding the piston down tight and allowing the teeth to skip under heavy load.

[@ricbrowne3249]

.Hi Ezra I had a similar problem with a highway truck that was about 14 yrs old it had done well over 1. 5 Million Kilometers I could feel the transmission jumping what seemed to me gears jumping over them selves , I took the truck to the service Dept. because the back diff oil was a bit brassy looking they changed the rear diff , long story short it turned out to be the gear box , we ended up re-racing & replacing some of the gears in the box . "18 speed Road Ranger " solved the problem , just a thought mate . cheers "RB" Albury Australia

[@donrotenberry6571]

Hello Ezra. been a while. Hope this fixed your problem. Everything else looked OK. Be Safe & Stay Warm.

[@PowerOfValmet]

Now i dont drive a american truck but in some cases on scanias the shift fork can bend and then it behaves like yourse, or the the thing that moves the fork doesnt have the power to hold the shift fork in place so it skips. But hope it works for you buddy 😊

[@JorisV1983]

Im no expert on these things. However i am a mechanic and what i see is that the ring that engages the power divider is way to lose on the splines it is on. Edit: i just saw you put the old rong back on the new shaft arount 21:36. I woud have put a new one on. Seems way to loose.

[@nightrider6769]

Hi EZ. Seen the inside of a differential is a on a truck is a first for me the shops I've worked at over the years most of the trucks were fairly new equipment and they had warranties so if you had an issue they'd go to the dealer so we never dealt with tearing them down the only thing we did is change oil in the diffs and when you pulled your plugs out what I saw on the end of your magnet there look perfectly normal I've seen that all the time when I was changing diff oil so I it didn't grenade big or anything I agree with you I didn't see anything that would alarm me by any means but I wasn't there in person feeling it I was just using my eyes but everything looked really good and that power divider I'm very surprised at Hull straightforward that was I mean that did not look difficult to do I bet the gears weren't cheap but you know to put the new stuff in look pretty simple something I'd never done but hopefully you got the situation fixed I guess we won't know for 5 months from now maybe you can do a video on updating us how it's doing if it's still doing it or it's not doing it that'd be wonderful but thanks for bringing us along on this tear down and put back together I enjoyed it immensely.

[@buddyreed2623]

If it's two months before the ground thaws, be sure to let us know and perhaps try to get to the same soft spot and weight on the fifth wheel to see if it does the same thing. Have good days!

[@gasperajdnik8004]

Good work 👍

[@johndemeen5575]

Some kind of metric. Million thanks for entertaining me. St.Paul,Minnesota.

[@saddletramp1979]

Makes me wonder about the part that puts it in gear, maybe its not working right,

[@victorchavez1760]

How much were the parts you replaced?

[@Ezrider359]

About $800

[@victorchavez1760]

thank you

[@richardherbert6665]

Thanks for the update! Hope everything works out!!

[@adambennett2176]

Old red!!

[@keepontruckinoutlawlife1248]

Ezra you do great work thanks for sharing as always appreciate ya driv,ah.

[@dennissmith460]

Nothing like climbing down a rabbit hole, and finding no definite answers.

[@Mark-g3k8b]

Thanks for the info you give you are great at the work you do good job 👍

[@Go4BrokeOffroad]

Always very helpful videos. 🤘

[@randystrunk9774]

I'm going through the same thing. Same rearends. We replaced the spider gears & the pieces they run in & so far we havent had any issues. The spider gears were loose on the pins they go through.

[@vincentstanley68]

Are you somewhere in the midwest?

[@Ezrider359]

north Dakota

[@vincentstanley68]

@@Ezrider359 i like how you fix your truck! Good luck with the power divider! You inspire me to keep on going when im not confident cuz ive never done it before. Keep the videos coming please

[@garygeer7646]

😎👌

[@DaveDettmann-v3m]

a bore scope could probably get in to see the differential spider gears. Harbor Freight ones are not too bad a picture. Good to see another video! Cheers