Pranka/Stoeger vs Haley/Blue

[@Fin.mint.]

"I don't wax poetic about carrying a gun, I show people how to use the fucking gun"

[@Barnes-ml9wg]

Damn Travis can talk alot without saying anything 😂

[@brianjarrell9203]

Being a doctor is sexually transmitted? 😂😂😂

[@Northman87]

These interviews are so ghetto but also pure gold.

[@aaron4820]

Ben is so great at cutting through so much bullshit with a smile or a simple question lol

[@SoccerVJ2011]

The STD thing killed me lmao

[@aaron4820]

@@SoccerVJ2011 I honestly can't tell if Travis was too slow to get it or he pretended not to, can't get burned if you can't feel heat right lmao

[@Patrick_Bateman____]

37:12 I have never laughed harder 🤣 I’ll say this. I’m a personal trainer and I know exactly what Travis is doing. You use a lot of big words to make the potential client feel stupid without calling them stupid. The big words don’t have to make sense, they just have to make the client feel like you know something they don’t. Being able to speak and teach simply and concisely is an underrated skill.

[@JJheadcharge]

100% how I feel as an OT. I always try to speak in layman's terms when I can - people are typically too prideful or embarrassed to ask or question what you're saying, and I think that's what some of these instructors are counting on.

[@Patrick_Bateman____]

@@JJheadcharge Well put.

[@jaxmeoff3974]

That was hilarious for real

[@tomwilson1006]

One only needs to watch his ND video 😂

[@RedDawnReadiness]

People talk like that so they feel better about charging someone a crap ton of money for just some simple instructions lol

[@CitizenCarrier]

“ i’d love to show you motion capture systems, ocular tracking systems, Nuro feedback systems and neuromuscular timing systems…..” Ben…” what the fuck?“ “So now being a doctor is sexually transmitted?” 😂🤣 That’s just pure fucking gold! 😂🤣

[@clutchshot3306]

I know!!! I was dying!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@brized]

Travis had a lot of jargon and word salad but he had some good points. Much respect to him for having a tough talk in public and much respect to Ben and Matt for pushing for the truth.

[@clutchshot3306]

I agree. I personally wouldn't go to class like his. Some people like his way of teaching, which leads more people to firearms training, which is a win in my book. Either way, I still respect him even though I may disagree with some of his teaching methods. Even though I wouldn't prefer to take a class from him, I can still guarantee that I could learn something! I still suck at shooting!😂😂😂

[@nyrangeguy3194]

Thanks for posting this to KZbin, much easier to keep my place and continue listening.

[@martyrobbinsismydad]

Glad Ben this up on KZbin so I can watch it again. I remember when this shit was initially going down all I could think was “damn Travis really can say a whole lot of meaningless nonsense to waste time” lol

[@lukenordvick1861]

I’d love to go to a Ben Steoger class. Not sure if I’d like to listen to a 4 hrs discussion on eyes.

[@EuropaChronicles]

Ben’s classes are awesome. Bring as much ammo as you can afford because you can shoot it all and learn so damn much along the way. Although, just like with any other class, you have to put in the work after the class is over to get the real benefits.

[@TheEDCTribe]

“You talk about this for FOUR HOURS in a class?” “Yes.” “Holy fuck” And “Being a doctor is sexually transmitted?” Took me out

[@EuropaChronicles]

46:50 I always find it interesting when professional firearms trainers don’t shoot USPSA (or at least IDPA). Travis says here that he has shot “recent” matches, but I can’t find any reference to anything USPSA or IDPA related at all, much less from the past few years. Obviously, a person doesn’t have to shoot competitively to be a good shooter, but it’s kinda tough to gauge how effective a training program is if the main guy doesn’t test himself against unknown challenges.

[@datnip79]

Test himself against unknown challenges??! U mean like War, where it actually counts. It blows my mind how so many people suck Bens dick because he is good on a flat range

[@aaron4820]

Not sure Travis realizes that practical shooting match results are usually publicly accessible...

[@Nordheide]

TF?! You guys really think that men like Travis Haley have to prove their skills in USPSA/IDPA? That stuff is miles away from effective combat shooting and much less important, so of course his focus is on something else than civilian sports lmao

[@EuropaChronicles]

@@Nordheide There are many accomplished mil & LEO shooters who will attest to USPSA being a valuable training tool and proving ground for professional shooters. Matt Pranka is one of them; he’s explained his reasoning many times. Haley is a very good shooter, but it seems to me that I only ever see him shooting/demoing his own drills. Competition shooting puts you in unknown courses of fire and tests you against other good shooters; anyone who thinks that’s not a valuable tool for improvement isn’t as good of a shooter as they could be. PS: How do you define “effective combat shooting?” To me, it’s shooting as quickly and accurately as possible under stressful conditions. What’s your definition and how do you measure skills and gauge improvement?

[@noah.s95]

Hard to imagine 2 more different people than Ben and Travis haha

[@LockTimeClarity]

You hit the nail on the head.

[@joshuafreeman4459]

This is just a huge pissing contest. Travis just enjoys hearing his own voice and regurgitates the same points again and again. It’s honestly insufferable. His bit about not being able to see sights unbelievable stupid. I personally have met people who saw sights during every single shooting they were in. While it is hilarious to see Ben trolling, it gets exhausting. His air of holier then thou, and refusal to acknowledge he might stand to learn something. You don’t need to discredit every other way of instructor to the 10th degree to validate yourself 🤷‍♂️

[@Fin.mint.]

Lol, Ben doesn't do it to validate himself. He does it because he finds it hilarious.

[@Desertpunk1986]

I don’t think you understand Ben. Lol

[@ChipSpencer123]

Very interesting conversation. The GBRS video with Daniel Horner Sig Sauer was very interesting to me It touches on some of the things talked about in the early part of your conversation.

[@wmetzler01]

Awesome discussion! Different approaches to solve similar problems - pretty cool…

[@AJohnSmith]

Thanks for saving me a lot of money; knowing who to avoid wasting my very little monies I have, is very appreciated.

[@Matt-w9m]

Being a doctor is sexually transmitted 😂

[@bpm990d]

Travis needs to read "The Inner Game of Tennis" and process what Ben is saying about less words is usually more effective.

[@swiftaudi]

Can anybody point me to the video being discussed?

[@vectorponder]

Never could find it

[@swiftaudi]

@ me either

[@MrCashewkitty]

Anybody have a link to this video the kid biffed?

[@devongrey4135]

Why is it that people who practice hitting targets accurately at long range are so calm, and get along so well, while people who practice hitting targets fast at short range are always having internet slap fights?

[@kxkxkxkx]

Cuz LR is all FUDDs and CQB is all studs 🤗

[@danielcampbell9457]

i would assume because most gunfights OUTSIDE of a warzone start perty dam close, so being fast and accurate is sup dup importante. so who ever has the better technique should also have the most attention on him at that moment until someone better comes along. and that tends to stir some pots when it pertains to something that important/crucial.

[@bjornegan6421]

it is because people have been convinced (not attempting to imply they actually thought and were convinced, but simply this is the group think) that there is a difference between 'accurate' shooting and 'combat effective' shooting. most shooters are not good shooters, but that concept is only reinforced by the abundance of 'instructors', nearly all being not good shooters. all these social media things showing all these sof 'instructors' or others shooting poorly but in a way that looks 'cool', and perpetuating the idea that 'combat effective' and accuracy are mutually exclusive, and now the not good shooters, especially those who want to be tactical, think they are just as good as the not good instructors. ego, pride, ignorance, dishonesty.

[@goodluck2522]

I just re-watched this... and it's funny but Travis proves his entire methodology wrong with his analogy about the engineers designed the SR71 to be simple for the pilot - don't overload the pilot with all the science he just needs to fly it at as high and fast as possible - then he overloads his students with science whereas Ben and Matt are just teaching their students to fly high and fast. Maybe if he kinesthetically aligns himself to the monitor and maintains occular focus he can engage his optic nerve with this comment and his synapses, which are obviously mileanated will grant him some self awareness 😅

[@GHOSTO21O]

I know this is old but were is the video Matt is referring to?

[@glennhynes5263]

My goodness haley is so full of himself. Because he can t reasonably make a sound argument that is 'not from authority' (his doctor ex-wife) he has to try to blur the discussion by almost crying. Awful.

[@donlord794]

Travis Haley is the man, the more knowledge the better decision making period.

[@Claybone12]

Great to have this moved to youtube

[@petervsays]

dunning kruger effect

[@CA.0verview]

A live on with grandthumb is coming 🍻

[@samcshooting]

Ben reminds me of my shooting coach. If you ask how to get better at something, the most basic answer will come back and you will probably want to go cry in the corner, because it wasn't compassionate.

[@seabee714]

Ben is certainly a far better shooter than Travis in most every shooting discipline.. I would want Travis on my side in a gunfight hands down over Ben.

[@bender_cigar]

You should prefer to have Matt pranka

[@Excelnaught-f4b]

Ok but he isn’t selling that and he isn’t going to do it for free, so it’s not relevant.

[@cat19649]

Is this a firearm fight club podcast? This should be a regular show I love it.

[@dtomamerican3471]

You are taking about the same thing just differently. That's why some train with Ben and some with Travis.

[@HoboWithAK]

Fuck I'm taking a class from Ben if I ever get the chance 🤣

[@eldogg4life]

Anyone have a link to the video being referenced?

[@christiancoats1]

Why is this a debate? I took Haley's class and learned a lot. I've watched Ben's videos and have learned a lot. I watch many people's videos, and i learn at least something from most of them. This debate is approached as if there's only one type of student in the world. In reality, there are many types of people and they will learn in different ways.

[@Clover.field618]

Travis uses so much language no one gives a fuck about. He talks like such a politician.

[@user-ed5jh3ff6u]

A lot of talk about something as simple as “ I made a mistake, luckily there were no ramifications and that’s why we practice “, you gotta love Ben with his WTF look on his face, yo Ben thanks for your no bullshit shooting content.

[@CA.0verview]

37:33 this got hot, I’m like oh shit , adult men are arguing I’m going to freeze until I can think of a exit . 🥶

[@philosophyofcarry]

savage, this is a new age.

[@felixdewinter3484]

Like Skeletor when he took castle grey skull: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qISld2yieqaXr9k

[@LockTimeClarity]

Ironically, I first met Ben when he was selling sunglasses. Cheers mate!

[@napoleonmagpantay3866]

This would have been much more insightful if each one had gone to their counterparts’s class to get their perspective and then got on here to discuss opinions.

[@aaron4820]

The odds of Ben being able to sit through 4 hours of kinesthetic alignment is not high.

[@josephsantana3094]

Trevor keeps trying to simultaneously admit he was wrong but at the same time doubling down on what he did and why he did it and not explaining it very well. Bottom line is he either intentionally or negligently sent the shot with zero sight picture just to try to look fast. The claim that the round allegedly hit somewhere low left on the target doesn't make it any better.

[@Patrick_Bateman____]

Who is Trevor and what’s the vid they’re talking about?

[@thebronzetoo]

Is there a link to the video in question?

[@Rangeofranges]

55:30 “create an aggregate of increased marginal performance gains” that’s just getting better. That’s what that means and it’s why the whole jargon when it comes to these concepts is dumb

[@A4Blue-m7n]

Sam Hyde was right about Travis Haley

[@fredgoodrum]

the comments at the 14:00-17:00 minute mark strike me a a common, but good, precursor to the creation of some form of a Standards Committee. In some fields this is good like printing or manufacturing. In terms of teaching, training, or education, it might require more thought than most educators are capable. [and, yes, I see a big distinction between a teaching class and a training class]

[@CA.0verview]

The ending was sweet 😎 ❤

[@minnil7927]

Had a run in with a grizzly few years ago and I didn’t have any problems seeing my sites. Just practice

[@JofoTubin]

That dude got an A in "baffle'em with bullsh*t 101".

[@rootpass74]

Brutal

[@paulfrancois7653]

Travis Haley is nauseating. He sounds like a politician

[@clutchshot3306]

Travis heart is I'm the the right place, but I agree that he sounds like he's trying to sell you on something.

[@Excelnaught-f4b]

@@clutchshot3306 I can’t take any man seriously who says “I was married to a doctor” as evidence lol. That’s baby thinking

[@clutchshot3306]

@Excelnaught-f4b I can see that. When Ben said that it's sexually transmitted, I about died! I get what Ben was saying, and Travis, in making that statement, showed how much of an echo chamber he surrounds himself with. I think his intent is in the right direction, but saying something like that will definitely have people thinking he's arrogant.

[@jaholland42]

Our leader

[@Gypsyman40]

Are you talking about the Ronin that said if two shots don't stop the threat police should then shoot them in the hips... 😳?

[@Fin.mint.]

That's a legitimate tactic. It's called a pelvic girdle shot, and can be beneficial if someone is wearing body armor.

[@tomwilson1006]

Hell when I learned how to shoot, I was a freshman in high school on the rifle team. We didn’t have all sorts of gee whiz gadgets and listen to our coach talk about medical eye numbo jumbo etc. We learned the fundamentals and then employed them and PRACTICED, over and over. There’s a difference between shooting competitions and shooting real-world stressful self defense situations. You can incorporate them together and learn to be a better real-life scenario shooter. Just gotta get off the flat range and add some stress to your training. It’s not rocket science, nor will it ever be. There comes a point when you’re teaching students if you drown them in a bunch of unnecessary information and science, you’re not helping them to become better. Your average civilian isn’t going for a PhD in ballistics or optometry. However there’s a sucker born every minute that will spend big $$ on going to classes and learning a bunch of unnecessary BS, and not be any better afterwards. If it weren’t for suckers, there wouldn’t be snake oil salesman…..

[@piouswhale]

thats funny about Mike blocking you. I took his gunfighter pistol course and I thought it was fine. It did help me become a better pistol shooter so that is interesting. Im not on instagram or social media so Im not sure what happens there.

[@CA.0verview]

35:20 dang it Travis , a nd is a nd. Man, that old saying don’t meet your hero’s is true.

[@tsimyang]

Wow this whole video is an example on how much men envy other men. How some men feel like they are entitled to certain things.

[@TheNathanBrand]

It’s nice to see people finally calling out all the gimmicky BS that’s sold in the firearm training world. KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid.

[@MrZola1234]

A little dellusional about how dare we are from a freedom standpoint. One of the greatest things about America is that about a hundred countries around the world follow our example on democracy

[@jak4032]

Ben is very blunt and matter of fact. Travis has seen too much and I think ventures into too much "zen".

[@SK-ik9mc]

37:28 😂😂

[@MrCashewkitty]

To claim that these are the worst times in American history I'd absolutely ridiculous and self absorbed. I'm hoping that's just passion for freedom talking and not actual belief.

[@JEJAK5396]

I think that probably depends on what parts we’re considering. I don’t look at it like Haley does either, but their are things that are worse now then in the past.

[@CalmaJiu-Jitsu]

Replying to this a year later I’m sure you’ve changed your mind on things are going. It takes knowledge eyes to see the shit taking place right in front of you.

[@MrCashewkitty]

@@CalmaJiu-Jitsu it's not even debatable. We are not in all out economic collapse like the Great Depression, there's no epic drought wiping out the majority of our food like the dust bowl, and we sure as Hell aren't yet in the middle of a world War and seeing day to day life change dramatically as the war machine grinds up a serious percentage of our able bodied men and forces women and children into the war factories

[@law1831]

Ugh, at the 55:00 minute mark travis haley fragged himself when he talked about the KISS method being for the instructors not the students. Keep it simple in the explanations of things. If somebody wants to hear the pseudoscientific babble, they can follow up offline. Less talkie more trigger pressie

[@amats3]

Yeee ha …with Travis 🇺🇸 What are you kidding me? The best is yet to come.

[@CA.0verview]

25:42 daymn mòy Calientè 🌶️

[@tokay444]

They need some training on how to make a video that takes up more than a third of the screen, like a potato.

[@Llepsdog]

I love Ben in this, Travis not so much

[@CA.0verview]

26:03 man I felt that ❤ got to love the man .

[@billiehaycraft3192]

There is a place for how Haley teaches and there is a place for how Ben teaches. Travis realizes that but Ben seems to think that people should only be taught how to shoot in a competition

[@billiehaycraft3192]

@Mike Papa Kilo lol maybe you think about other dudes in the shower but I don’t. He was so arrogant and disrespectful it was ridiculous. I mean “ so being a doctor is sexually transmitted now” really? How about you stop whining and hating on all the guys that are more successful than you on the internet

[@billiehaycraft3192]

@Mike Papa Kilo I’m not hating on you or Ben. He can put on those awesome shades and be a dick to as many great trainers as he wants, and I’ll probably still watch his content cause he’s a great shooter that I can get a lot of stuff from. I’m not hating it just is what it is

[@potentpoefie]

Ben teaches law enforcement etc. Shooting is shooting. It's really not a hard thing to shoot. The basics are simple. However the BS baffels brains teachers will tell you all the gear/physics behind it. As a martial art instructor I've learned that if you cannot explain it to a 6 year old, you don't know what you're doing. Your job as an instructor in anything is to take massive and difficult concepts and break it down to your students. If they themselves take it further and become professors themselves that's up to them. But you do not teach like that. Shooting is shooting. Doesn't matter where you apply it; law enforcement, military, special forces etc. Tactics are something else and you can have all the tactics in the world but if you can't hit what you are aiming at, then it's as useless as the 300 pound, can't go up a flight of stairs, prepper that thinks he'll survive. So Ben is absolutely correct. You don't need to know how your eyes work and having seen your mom naked when you were young might effect you when you have to teach someone how to shoot. As for Ben's comment as to is being a doctor is sexually transmitted. Well Travis makes it sound that he is a medical expert because his wife is a doctor. Valid. Like if my wife is a pilot that doesn't mean I'm one.

[@moustache6622]

A place for the BS Travis Haley teaches you say, well if 'mediocrity' was a physical place...

[@billiehaycraft3192]

@@moustache6622 your entitled to your opinion

[@XxCrankyMoosexX]

I love how Travis speaks the most but actually says so little. I’m glad I haven’t paid for his classes because I just know I’d feel like I wasted a day of useless shit.

[@thebronzetoo]

I took a 1-day LE class from him and it was one of the best classes I've ever taken.

[@InjunJoe-sh7wn]

So Matt Pranka sat in on this childish argument as the only adult? I like the fact that Matt isn’t “selling” his service but instead focuses on “what can I do right now.” Ben is obviously one of the best shooters in the world, but he seems to be seeking relevancy since getting kicked out of uspsa. I respect him for his no nonsense approach though, because he’s really good at teaching people to shoot. Travis is just annoying. He’s way too verbose and quite frankly annoying. I hope Trevor finds his way clear and gets a better job with a better boss.

[@Fin.mint.]

It's not seeking relevancy. He's realized how far he can push people through trolling them and learned he receives enjoyment in doing so.

[@ChipSpencer123]

I thought it was sad to call out two businesses just cause they’re different than you. All have value.

[@hattsho]

Ben dishing sports science to evaluate shooting was too shallow. Sports science dfinatly brough the Olympics and pro sports to a whole new level. Shooting sports can definately can use it without dishing it. Travis can cut down on his fancy terminologies when address his students. ND is a ND no matter how you slice it.

[@theultimatesteelshooter8610]

What’s with the ski goggles …lol you trying to be in cognigto

[@JofoTubin]

I kept waiting for Ben to yell, "Snap into a Slim Jim!"

[@DomiNate_1]

What’s the point of this video? Are you guys like the Bar exam for people posting shooting content? Is this an ethics court? I think this Ben and Matt dude is arguing in bad faith.. “the explanation behind anything I’ve done in the past is irrelevant because I’ve already done it duh!”

[@kxkxkxkx]

Travis has by far the highest EQ and level of maturity here ☝️ respect him for defending his young assistant from these loudmouth clout chasers 💯

[@CalmaJiu-Jitsu]

Context is everything. If you only knew the whole story. Travis is a good man and someone I’d fight next to in a war.

[@igotsome4526]

All of you wasted your time. lol

[@DefendersAndDisciples]

This is fantastic. This is the most Thanksgiving Dinner family debate thing I’ve ever seen on KZbin. 🤣 Love it. Though, I can't believe Travis claims that firing from the hip is "sighted fire". 🤦🏻‍♂ And sight alignment/picture can still be achieved while target focused with iron sights.

[@goodluck2522]

Travis trying to use his gunfighting experience to imply people who haven't been in a gunfight dont understand shooting .... dude needs to check his ego. Ben can outshoot and teach better than him... and probably hasn't been in a gunfight, but Travis wants to talk as complicated as he can and blather on like a kid being graded by word count because he needs to justify charging people for 3 day courses that are 6 hours of useful content and 30 hours of talking lol

[@CalmaJiu-Jitsu]

Context is everything. Go take a class and see for yourself.

[@goodluck2522]

@@CalmaJiu-Jitsu I take classes... just not from guys who talk for hours

[@donlord794]

These are former top warriors making a fucking wash woman video bottom line because of jealousy over the traffic Travis pulls in on the internet. Obvious over the critique of one shot the kid took. Travis should have just told these guys blow me, go handle your own business. Travis is the best