Philosophical Analysis of Dark Souls

[@Navelofman]

On my first playthrough, I didn't think twice when I lit the bonfire after defeating Gwyn. I didn't realize that was the first flame, or what it meant to link it. When my character self immolated, I was dumbstruck. Looking back on that, I do feel there's some credence to the idea that someone is leading the undead to unwittingly keep the age of fire going. What with telling the undead they have a purpose that must sought, and conditioning them to light bonfires along the way. I feel like I was set up, and that experience is part of why I love this game.

[@CetomimusGillii]

Yes, I love how it's deliberately finished to resemble your dime-a-dozen Hero's Journey, enough so as to keep the average player's guard down in regards to the narrative, or lack thereof; despite the overtures that suggest deeper profundities in the game's locations and writing. At least in my first playthrough, I enjoyed pondering the wacky Solaire dialog and mind-bending exposition on the Abyss and the nature of Humanity, but was so caught up in the ritual patterns of playing a videogame that I never suspected that the Chosen One™ trope might be inverted. In fact, after I killed Gwyn, my curiosity led me to putter idly around the Kiln long enough to accidentally trigger the Age of Dark ending. I vividly remember sitting in my dorm room repeatedly mouthing "w h a t?" to myself, as my character walked down that path, my monosyllabic question to nobody raising gradually in intensity from a bewildered whisper to a desperate hushed shout, probing the aether for some clue as to the meaning of what I was witnessing. I don't know about you, but the credits and I shared quite a pensive handful of minutes as the Nameless Song set the mood for my ruminations. I wonder what it would take to make me feel again that understated torrent of emotion that arrived as the credits gave way to the Undead Asylum cutscene. This time, I wouldn't merely muse off-handedly about the meanings of item descriptions, nope. This time I felt a personal mission to dissect this enigma and extract the truth I now knew it had so easily hidden from me on my first playthrough. And so an obsession was born.

[@crashjones6255]

@@CetomimusGillii Nice.

[@legionarybooks13]

I ran into the same thing, not realising that rekindling the First Flame meant self-immolation. After 60+ hours (which is about what my first run took) I was PISSED to get a ten-second cutscene of burning to death, not even knowing that there was more than one option! Whenever I do a playthrough now (as I think DS1 has the most replay value of the entire series) my attitude is, "Screw Gwyn and his selfish, manipulating 'gods'!"

[@thememeilator2633]

since i played DS3 first and basically had an in on the lore due to my friends answering questions i asked them about the world and all the things in it, by the time i first played DS1 i already knew who Gwyn, Artorias & Sif, Gwynevere, Gwyndolin, Solare, Patches, Seigmire, Nito, Hawkeye Gough, Kalameet, Andre, Manus, the Four Kings, Capra Demon, Prasilla, Quelaag, The Bed of Chaos, Asylum Demon/Stray Demon and Seath the Scaless were. All of the stuff that i didn`t know about were minor and only were stepping stones to the parts i already knew about so there was no sense of adventure or discovery, no feelings of satisfaction for defeating a boss or tough enemy. every death felt worse then the last and every victory never felt good or worth celebrating for even a few seconds. it was as if i had no purpose in defeating the enemies, no sense of worth for getting past a boss or difficult area, nothing. i was basically going hollow in real life by just going through the game. Gwyn was the one thatfelt more like a slap in the face then anything else i went through. he wasn`t fun to fight nor felt significant to me. i felt nothing other then just get it over with please! i don`t want to keep playing this game, but i knew i couldn`t quit now. that was the only driving force that made me beat gwyn. i even felt the need to break my challenge of completing the game while never blocking or using a shield which was the only thing driving me to go through the game at all come to think of it. i guess you could say i went hollow at Gwyn. my last reason that kept my resolve was gone shortly after i beat him. the last nail in the coffin was me accidentally triggering the Age of Dark ending and not linking the fire like i wanted to, robbing me of the first ending i wanted to get. there was nothing left for me. i remember saying one last thing as the credits were rolling "F@ck everyone who made this game." nowadays i don`t mean that at all but that should say how done i was with DS1 after that. all that hardship, all that effort, all that fractured and beaten determination felt like it was for nothing. and i went hollow. (just so anyone who reads this knows i am fine irl. i have my problems but i have the determination to solve them, but when it comes to dark souls 1 i am hollow, i have no will to fight on in the game and most likely never regain that will to fight on, it is done and so am i but thank you to whoever reads this.)

[@ryanmcw7878]

Check out Hawkshaw's new video on the lore of Lautrec, it addresses this point directly and think you will be satisfied with their conclusion

[@franklinshure960]

I think this video is what is meant by the phrase “youtube premium”.

[@ramrodbldm9876]

You need to go ahead and get up

[@HalcyonEX]

I always got KZbin premium these ads are fucked

[@fosphor8920]

@@HalcyonEX dude don't pay for them to stop showing you adds... get third party software like addblock

[@FinneousPJ1]

The audio mixing is fucked though

[@serioussaitama4071]

@@fosphor8920 fr, the only reason I would pay for premium is the ability to use other apps while watching KZbin.

[@nickgalluzzi1329]

This is a solid video-essay, worth watching for those who are hungry for philosophy: Darksouls fan or not. Thank you for making it.

[@TheGemsbok]

Very kind of you to say, thank you!

[@billyalarie929]

even for someone who considers himself, AT VERY MOST, someone with a clever-at-best, passing familiarity with philosophy.

[@sspoon]

I mean dude all you have to do is think

[@littlepoodle7443]

@@sspoon Don’t be ignorant

[@sspoon]

​@@littlepoodle7443I don't try to be. wanna elaborate? I mean what I said, that philosophy isn't hard to find. you can just think right now about where you are, and I'm not sure what would be more important than what's immediately relevant to you in that way. things like where and who you are. I don't at all mean to underplay the importance of meaningful art. I love that stuff and wanna pursue it creatively. I know art, books, etc. can help you understand where/who you are, but you can look around and think for yourself without it. there's no reason to be starving for philosophy, all you gotta do is think.

[@richmichaels6872]

His thoughts about the painted world are extra meaningful when you think about what happens at the end of DS3 DLC.

[@SkitariusNoKD]

The added the fact that you use the literal soul of humanity to make an everlasting creation, a piece of art that will never rot the ultimate defiance to nihilism and a meaningless universe; It wrap ups nicely his analisis on the abyss being human nature and it's propensity to fall into hopesless then the painting would be the human will to create meaning and beauty even were there none.

[@KlaireMurre]

Ew ds3. Cringe

[@tibiademon9157]

@@KlaireMurre Get a load of this guy

[@rellort4362]

@@KlaireMurre Get a load of this guy

[@SP_A_C_E_D]

@@KlaireMurre Shit take.

[@zorkhan9695]

I first found this game in high school on reference from my friend. I was depressed and out of motivation or care in the truest sense of the words. He told me the motivation was the key giving yourself a goal you look forward to like beating dark souls. Playing dark souls in such a state made me think of hollowing as losing to my depression or giving up. And not only the game but the communities git gud attitude towards the game is what helped give me motivation to beat it. Lots of people hate the elitist attitude of the souls like community but that elitist attitude is exactly the thing that motivated me to not go hollow, to not give up, to want to beat this game. And when I finally finished it I had friends and people I cared about idk if the game simply helped see that I cared or it took me so long that I found people to care about but in the end it's the reason I'm still here you guys are the reason I'm still here. So thanks, and don't you dare go hollow.

[@jaybeam1466]

We don't have a "git gud" attitude. We just don't like it when people who don't play these games start demanding changes (e.g. adding a difficulty option.)

[@jchen8942]

@@jaybeam1466 i would argue that git gud is an attitude, but gitting gud includes researching and looking for tips on how to beat a boss. You only truly use the term git gud against unreasonable demands for change or unreasonable critism but when a new player asks for advice and souls vererans give it its a form of" here is how to git gud."

[@zorkhan9695]

@@jaybeam1466 yeah I'd say probably not anymore it has certainly changed but back when ds1 was the only dark souls out they definitely did, but your also partially right about that I think that's probably a large part of where it comes from

[@jerrodshack7610]

@@jaybeam1466 this is absolutely not true, DS fanbase is often very toxic

[@SaveliySakharov]

Don’t give up, skeleton!

[@joshuavick887]

The way the Crestfallen Warrior says there’s two bells of awakening is so sinister, as if to immediately rebuke you for even possibly considering the ‘prophecy’ as anything to be taken seriously. I never noticed this once in all my play throughs of the game, super interesting. Great job man

[@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon]

I find really funny how he's just sitting there in Firelink Shrine, waiting to go hollow, passing his pessimism to everyone trying to fulfill the undead prophesy, but the moment he tries to do something about Frampt he actually goes hollow in the New Londo ruins

[@lawrenceriverside6659]

So that was a fuckin lie

[@lawrenceriverside6659]

@@joshuavick887 indeed

[@lawrenceriverside6659]

@@joshuavick887 meme

[@joshuavick887]

@@lawrenceriverside6659 touch grass

[@RSK412]

The most ancient comedy: Giving a being the ability to surmise purpose and giving it none. Hilarious.

[@redactedredacted3937]

absolute knee-slapper, never fails to get a laugh.

[@kingkoi6542]

Just as infinitely purposefull as it is infinitely purposeless.

[@YavNe]

The f are you even talking about?

[@YavNe]

@@redactedredacted3937 WUT

[@YavNe]

@@kingkoi6542 The f are you even talking about too?!

[@TheRedstonian]

Something interesting worth noting: In the second game, there is a sorcerer of Hexes named Felkin. Hexes, being sorceries of darkness, are powered by the lower stat of your intelligence or faith. Felkin stutters much, and doesn't talk to you very much unless you have a minimum understanding of the Dark of which he is so fond of, and when he speaks of it, his stutter fades. He becomes calm, relaxed. The psychological power of the Abyss, the "sense of absurdity", the existential paradox of knowing life is meaningless that drives people mad? Apparently, it's not a supernatural power. It's just... human reaction. Felkin takes comfort in knowing about the soul-death of the universe slowly crawling ever closer; he takes solace in the nihilism, because if nothing truly matters in the grand scheme of things, then there's no need to cry anymore. He even calls it "the dark" instead of its more ominous title. Hexes. It requires the intelligence, the logic to understand that ultimately, nothingness is coming, and cannot be stopped. But it requires the faith, perhaps in oneself instead of any gods, to remember one's own existence outside of the context of their essence. Felkin even mentions in his dialogue that sorceries and miracles never really interested him - I think he knew something felt off, wrong. The heretical truth behind hexing is dark - but authentic. Felkin is drawn to that authenticity, because it speaks to who he is, not what his role is. It's only the Abyss if you drown.

[@GrampaPiggie]

Honestly, I never associated his speech with a stutter. I have a stutter, and I'm not saying I don't hear his stutter, but I've always associated it with something more. Something purposeful. His speech sounds rhythmic to me. Like how Shakespearean characters will speak in an Iambic Pentameter, his speech too often has a recurring pattern to his stressed and unstressed syllables. It's all prose, there is no rhyme, but I always felt a rhythm or a beat when he spoke. Frankly, it's what drew me into him as a character. It sparked my intrigue of the dark. It led me to do a hex only run of the game (with sorceries used at the beginning until I could aquire hexes). And ultimately Felkin the Outcast is my favourite character in Dark Souls 2.

[@TheRedstonian]

@@GrampaPiggie That's an interesting view on it! I never noticed a rhythm to it, but I'll have to go back and re-listen.

[@Yal_Rathol]

i think something interesting to note is that DS3's ringed city DLC heavily implies that the dangers of the abyss (or, the terrors of nihilism to continue the analysis began in the video) were imposed on humanity by an outside force. prior to the war with the dragons but after the dawn of fire, humanity lived in harmony with their darkness. we get scraps of information about this era, from the dark hand, from the ringed knight set, all of which implies a world where communities of humans lived in the dark, using their fragments of the dark soul freely, sharing them amongst each other and forging their tools in the depths of abyss, imparting their desires and wishes into them, giving those tools quasi-life, or essence. but gwyn, with his command of light, trembled at the dark, and so did everything in his power to contain it. he did it in small ways, by discounting and ignoring the achievements of humans during the war with the dragons. he did it in big ways, by turning a city, the ringed city, into a prison for the human nobility, the pygmy lords, direct descendants of the furtive pygmy. he did it in insidious ways, by working with his uncle to found the way of white and teach humanity that dark was evil and to fear their inherent nature. he did it in blatant ways, by branding humanity with an infectious sigil which burned away their dark, a brand that would come to be known as the darksign. prior to humans growing to fear and hate the dark, prior to gwyn actively burning their nature out of them, humans had zero problems with the abyss. the dangers of the abyss, the desire for eternity and fear of finite existence, is imposed on us, by our society, by our "gods", by our kings who worship those gods, and it's so ingrained in the culture of the dark souls world that many players legitimately argue that gwyn is a hero, simply because people in the games say he is, without ever questioning the narrative.

[@TheGemsbok]

This is an absolutely terrific analysis. Of all the takes on the Ringed City that folks have shared in the comments on this video, this is by far the nearest to the direction I would personally go with it if I were to expand this analysis to cover the later entries in the series.

[@Yal_Rathol]

@@TheGemsbok well, thanks!

[@erbombarolo1887]

"No matter how tender, how exquisite, A LIE WILL REMAIN A LIE!"

[@MJ-cl8gr]

@@TheGemsbok Oh please do! If this video the the standard of your content, I really look forward to it. I already love this video, but DS3 is mechanically my favourite souls game to play, so hearing your thoughts on that would be awesome too.

[@yaminarthem1977]

Looking in this way the abyss, I could put a racional explication of the covenant of artorias, and why we don't need it after we kill the four kings: the covenant is a way for the humanity inside the undead to remember they don't need to fear the abyss. After the kill of the King, mabey the undead don't know, but the humanity inside sure knows

[@herm574]

The beautiful thing about dark souls is that while the messages conveyed in this video may very well not at all be what was 'intended' to be taken away from the game, the game is built in such a way that these ideas and themes naturally come forward, while it may take some insight to notice them; much like in real life.

[@SaveliySakharov]

That’s a good thought, I think partially this is the reason why you can justify philosophical analysis on it. DS1 brings so many thoughts into the light and does it consciously unlike many other projects where themes are brought just to pretend to be clever by simply stating them. I think one can see that the world itself (Lordran) is built around existential problems and this is why it’s worth exploring. It simply brings thoughts outside your conventional story/lore perspective. I think it’s beautiful.

[@brunoactis1104]

It's pretty obviously intended. That's how art works, if Miyazaki didn't intent that, he wouldn't have made it. Why is it that in literature nobody thinks this way? As to clear intention not being intentional. I suppose it is because some artforms aren't taken seriously; i understand it with videogames, but the case is not with Dark Souls by many reasons o could list if you wanted me to, but you won't since you won't read this.

[@ucvu4751]

This is the what Wisecrack video of Dark Souls should be. Incredibly insightful. Haven't learned so much since Matthewmattosis and Hawkshaw videos.

[@aniki6575]

Wisecrack videos are mostly shit, and even the good ones are not close to being as deep and thought out as this video

[@私はクソな中国人です]

Wisecrack FUCKIN STINKS WHAT IS WISECRACK?

[@mattymclaughlin5900]

@@aniki6575 yes

[@icleave]

@@aniki6575 The Wisecrack videos on Nier Automata were very good

[@thewiselamb]

Jacob geller’s video “dark souls 3 is thinking of ending things” is also really really good analysis

[@mantis620]

You know, typically I'm just commenting to help with algorithmic satisfaction, which is part of the reason for this comment, but I've gotta say: You really justified the hour and a half run time. You had a lot to say about the topics on hand, which were themselves really well chosen, and that shows. You've given me much to think about! Life has no meaning sans that which we give it, and I had a lot of fun seeing that (and the other notions) delved into in this context. Really great work, I think your best by a lot (which is saying something!)

[@TheGemsbok]

Thank you for the thoroughly kind (and algorithmically pleasing) comment!

[@speeddemonji9547]

Haha you said the funny sans word

[@NexusKirin]

@@speeddemonji9547 there are three people

[@speeddemonji9547]

@@NexusKirin idgi ☹️

[@NexusKirin]

@@speeddemonji9547 the person who thanks the comment, the person who comments on one thing in the comment, and the spectator. There are more but as of right now there are three types

[@Ell_Pacino]

Watching this as the “FromSoft games have no narrative” discussion resurges

[@MinkDaddy]

The world and lore of Dark Souls truly opened up to me when I realized that the statement "Don't you dare go hollow!" does not mean "don't die" alone, but it is actually saying "Never give up!" The players who truly go hollow are the ones who give up on the game. Yea, it's a simple meaning, and perhaps a little clique, but it brings the community together and is a major reason why an easy mode for the game just doesn't work to the game's favor. Fight on my fellow Sunbros!

[@Nabrashaa]

This video is seriously a really cool way to learn about existential philosophy in general. Like, I have only played a tiny bit of Dark Souls, but I still gained a lot from the explanations of really complex philosophy through art. Who would have guessed that a video game could get so deep...

[@perfectcircle1000]

you gave up, you decided to become hollow by giving up on the game. In real life we experience many deaths in the form of giving up on tasks that we undertake, for example a person decides to pick up an instrument learn and play, they go with a guitar but through many trials and failures to learn and master the instrument the person in the end gives up on it and this at its essence is to become hollow, never give up when your humanity decides to light the first fire of your passion, our goal should always be to keep that fire burning as long as we can. When we reach the end in victory our fire will endure and influence the world around us. How will we be remembered when we reach our end?

[@mishael8631]

@@perfectcircle1000 Every part of this comment makes no sense

[@fraundakelmbrilpondaprost90]

This is prime material. Incredible work on this. Super thorough, thoughtful, and well-written.

[@TheGemsbok]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@finnish_hunter]

I love the novelty of uncovering the lore yourself without being handfed by NPC's or cutscenes, truly a masterpiece.

[@Valentine5157]

It’s quality content like this that needs more recognition. Having played all 3 souls games I love this video

[@cammantialive]

“…If one manages to not lose track of their freedom within their situation and the goals to which they applying their freedom they may indeed avoid hollowing.”

[@lalogolani6151]

Objectively good

[@DustyLimes]

It makes me so happy that someone is finally addressing the humor of this game with its due importance.

[@uhuhmazn]

This was brilliant. Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts on the game in this format. What a way to celebrate Dark Soul's 10th anniversary.

[@AidanGamble]

This is a really great video, hope this gets the attention it deserves. The Souls games are pretty readily connectable to existentialist themes, so it feels like it tends (probably rightly) to dominate analysis of the series, but this is bar none the most critical & involved engagement with that line of thought I've yet seen. Congrats on the definitive philosophical critique of the game, the pyromancy section in particular is genius

[@TheGemsbok]

Thanks for saying so. In the original article version of this analysis, my conclusion opens with a paragraph about how I was aware of a few different attempts at similar (albeit smaller) projects that had already existed, and why I found them unsatisfying. Ultimately, I found that paragraph a little too self-congratulatory and cut it from the video (although it's still in the article, even now).

[@mikeyangyang8816]

This video literally carried me through so many hard times. I listened to this video when I got covid, and feeling so sick I cant even open my eyes within out puking. I watched this video over and over when I am feeling alone and bored and I felt I am the undead, where I am in complete control over how my life plays out. I some times just leave this video on repeat when I am working, I felt I can focus better when I just listening to things I know by heart and only paying attention when I m tired. This video also carried me through some impossible tasks on my school work, I made small improvements little by little on my studies described by this video. An undead has no meaning before they can make meaning out of nothing, the only way to progress in Dark souls is to find fun things to do on the way to end game, which I transformed into my work and school work. Any way, thank you for this.

[@sarcirinsdaefarin3950]

A breathe of fresh air I'm instantly subbing. I really can't wait to watch the whole thing

[@TheGemsbok]

Thanks for the kind comment! Glad you're enjoying it.

[@jakewerling64]

You made such a good point about going "hollow"

[@parmesheen727]

initially watched this with no knowledge of dark souls or philosophy. now watching with knowledge of dark souls and not philosophy. eager to watch with adequate knowledge of both. brilliant video

[@HeavenlyHavoc]

Something of note about dark souls is that it is also quite easily interpreted as a political allegory, and this interpretation does not conflict with anything you've covered here. Consider that Gwyn's kindling of the first flame was an act to preserve a status quo. The age of fire was an age in which Gwyn and the lords held power, and the forestalling of its end is presented as the stifling of humanity. In this interpretation, gods and humans are akin to sociopolitical classes that are in tension with one another, and one could easily draw a line of connection between souls and political power; the gods use their massive souls to perpetuate a system that allows them to quite literally lord themselves over lesser people. Interestingly, this interpretation would posit that Oscar's 'prophecy' is indeed a malicious propaganda. Frampt and Gwynvere are transparently among the class who benefit from Gwyn's status quo, and here they try and impel you to preserve that status quo in kind. Importantly, Gwynvere presents the linking of fire as an end to the undead sacrifices, but the end of the game directly reveals that to be false because linking the fire *is* self sacrifice. In this reading, 'linking the flame' is analogous to the workers sacrificing blood sweat and tear to perpetuate industry here in the real world; an act that is no less subject to entropy than any other and - ultimately - is indifferent to the workers themselves as they do so. And the gods of Lordran who so crave to maintain power must lie cheat and connive to make it happen. Undead must be corralled so they can't make trouble, and if they escape they must be given immediate purpose to keep them on the path of productivity. If they show enough mettle to be of consequence by ringing the bells, then they earn the honor of dying to keep the whole affair going.

[@kevinoneil5120]

Just when I thought we couldn't go any deeper into this game. ❤

[@phillycheesesteak1979]

"Don't you dare go hollow."

[@WarriorWisdom4]

I know i probably arrived here late. But this video in itself is a piece of art. In our modern world thoughts and knowledge that you also shared while explaining the thoughts behind the game is what makes this video an rare and incredible 10/10. Thank you for this amazing journey!

[@n14d14]

watching this with no prior knowledge of dark souls but a decent library on existentialism

[@Chromodar]

"A death of the player's character is a small setback, but the concatenation of deaths has the potential to destroy one's resolve, ultimately driving them to give up on the game. Their character would then cease to make progress towards it's goals. In effect, it would hollow. Only a player who can maintain their motivation in the face of sustained adversity can achieve success and prevent their character from hollowing. Rarely is there such an intimately tight relationship between a game's mechanical relationship with it's player and that game's CORE THEMATIC CONCEPTS." *Jeopardy buzzer* Host: "Purple Tentacle was fastest on the buzzer, what is your answer?" Me: "What is.. The reason Dark Souls doesn't have an easy mode?" Host: "And just like that the Purple Tentacle is ahead by 700 points." *Crowd cheers*

[@alexabrajovic9822]

I had no idea Dark souls is so cool

[@danielbartosiewicz4746]

Possibly the most unique experience in a video game I’ve personally had, it’s so much cooler than you can imagine

[@eliasbonafe9236]

I'm not afraid to sustain that Dark Souls is one of the most impressive works in human history. This game hit me as much as great plays, songs, compositions, novels and movies

[@linkkicksu]

It's interesting to also consider the painted world's eventual transition and then rotting and finally burning in DS3. The world is recreated by another artist painting over it, much like another undead linking the fire. And over time it becomes distorted and begins to rot, much like can be seen in the kiln and dreg heap in DS3. And where life began with the first flame, it ends with fire in the painting.

[@jake-vu7cj]

i’ll randomly be in the mood for a ds vid like this but never know what to search lol glad this popped up in recommended great vid!

[@sketchingtophat9661]

King Izalis being so engrossed in a piece of art that he leaves Izalith to trap himself in a painting forever is now officially canon in my book.

[@ajgriffith9371]

I’ve only been watching for ten minutes and I could listen to you talk about anything

[@ElBamfo]

It's crazy how I've been listening to mostly stuff about the universe and physics and also dark souls and then just out of nowhere this video pops up linking the two things that have been fascinating me the most lately. 🤯

[@hunter_lionel]

I come back to this video every time i feel like i cant continue. It really helps.

[@adrianmiron4689]

Thank you for exposing me to these existentialist currents. This is truly the best video analysis on the internet. I sincerely believe that.

[@ghstbrry]

wow. unbelivable essay. i'm going to be thinking about this constantly for weeks, im sure.

[@MrFr2eman]

Besides the philosophical analysis, I really enjoyed hearing your take on the mechanics of the Dark Souls 1 world, thoughts on what are souls, how they work, the hollowing, the demon war and so on. I came to similar conclusions on my last playthrough, and it makes me so happy to hear someone else take a note of how those world/gameplay mechanics work and their relation to the larger narrative. Sometimes people mention those ideas briefly, but it's rare to see someone talk in-depth about how consistent and thorough the rules of the Dark Souls world are, quite logical despite being high-fantasy. Regarding Pyromancy, I think it's still might be an art of soul manipulation, shaping the soul into a living fire, similar to how Sorcery or Miracles spells work. If we look at the First Flame itself, it's presented as an origin of true life, the origin of the soul, which is the source of life. While the game doesn't explicitly state that the Flame and the Soul are one and the same, I think there is a lot of details that point towards that idea. - The Lord Souls were found within the First Flame, which is sustained by the returning of the Lord Souls, along with a general soul sacrifice. - The item images of the Lord Souls look like flames, with Gwyn's soul being the largest, which also makes other soul items appear like variations of the flame imagery in retrospect. - We sustain bonfires by feeding them humanity, and according to Kaathe, humanity is a dark form of a soul. If we consume humanity directly - it heals us, and if we burn humanity - its healing flames can be trapped in a flask, while the Firekeeper soul, being a small bundle of humanity, can be used to strengthen the flask. Even the Soul of Manus still emanates heat and is described as lukewarm, despite being pure humanity. - The Ascended Pyromancy Flame description mentions that the flame is something to be nurtured, and mechanically we upgrade/nurture it by spending souls. Considering all of that, I think it's fair to assume that all (magical)flames in the game are souls, and all souls are various forms of the First Flame, the physical manifestation of life force, while any form of spell-casting is an extension of one's soul. There are also details like Pyromancy spell developments being affected by the soul of the caster, similar to Sorceries and Miracles. Sorcery has crystal, light and dark/humanity spell variations, Miracles have sun and moon, and Pyromancy has chaos and dark/humanity. All variations, perhaps except Crystal Sorceries, originate from the unique traits of the inventor's soul, Dark Sorceries of Manus and Light of Oolacile people, Sunlight and Moonlight Miracles of Gwyn and Gwyndolin, Chaos Pyromancy from the Izalith Witches and Blackflame from the pyromancer, who came in contact with Manus' humanity. And last but not least, the Izalith Catalyst description talks about Daughters of Izalith being witches, who used wands as a catalyst for the flame sorceries, before the creation of Pyromancy and the Chaos Flame. And the Demon Sage we fight is supposedly the last practitioner of such arts, although the demon trapped in the lower floor of the Asylum begs to differ. Perhaps Izalith decided to abandon the catalysts to channel the power of the soul directly to re-create the First Flame, and it backfired as a result. It might be the reason why anyone can use Pyromancy and why it's considered dangerous(besides the Izalith catastrophe), it has no limits, no catalyst and it doesn't require any special skills/stats, it's a direct and primal channelling of the caster's soul. Also, a fun detail about the false prophecy, if we look at the design of the Firelink Shrine, it seems like it had a bell tower long ago, right above where the Frampt sleeps. So I imagine that in the past the prophecy was more correct and there was only one bell, in the Firelink Shrine, and it was more than enough to awaken Frampt and discover the purpose of the Undead. Anyways, sorry for an overly extensive nerdy rant. Love your videos, your writing and argumentation quality is exceptional, I rarely feel so engaged watching a KZbin video.

[@TheGemsbok]

That's an excellent comment containing excellent analysis! I'm particularly fond of your theory about Firelink Shrine being a defunct belltower, as it is a compelling idea I can honestly say I have never heard before. But it's perfectly intuitive now that you say it. Reminds me of when I was watching a video by Illusory Wall and he suggested that the large archway across the bridge in the Valley of Drakes from New Londo likely originally served as a point of access between New Londo and Oolacile. As soon as I heard it, it made so much sense (not only due to positioning, but also due to those being two neighboring cities that were both corrupted by primordial serpents and both fell in some respect to the Abyss) that it basically became canon to me. I should make it clear, though, that I certainly did not intend to be implying in this video that souls and fire are entirely distinct; I consider them to be two forms of the same substance (hence my opaque reference to the world of Dark Souls being "monist rather than dualist" at the start of the Painted World section). As souls, the substance seems to be more refined, permeable, and manipulable; as fire, the substance seems to be more raw, solid, and powerful. The two can be transformed to each other (by 'finding' souls in fire, or burning souls), but apparently not endlessly---and/or with some loss. So, when I say in the Izalith section that pyromancy was a method of "manipulating fire directly, not as souls, through a personal flame held in the hand" what I mean is that fire/soul remains in its fire state during pyromancy, unlike in sorcery and miracles. I think Laurentius' lines about the pyromancy flame being a 'part of the body' even points toward a sort of mind/matter alignment with souls/fire. But digging into that topic more clearly would've required veering off into metaphysics or philosophy of mind for a while to explain predicate dualism and possibly also property dualism (in order to justify my continued claim that the game is monist), which would've been a bit too far from my main points in this analysis.

[@MrFr2eman]

​@@TheGemsbok I've never looked at the pyromancy and fire like that before, but what you say makes total sense. I had a feeling I misunderstood something. Also, it sounds like I should check out Illusory Wall, love hearing world-building details like that. Thanks for the detailed reply!

[@serraramayfield9230]

@@MrFr2eman My only rebuttal is that Disparity isn't *only* Souls, it's its own monic force that inhabits the space of nothingness (which in an incomplete analysis I did many years ago, ascribed a specific term to)....also the implication in 2 that to a degree the Everlasting Dragons were conscious, or if not conscious/self-aware, at least possessed memory.

[@River_StGrey]

Okay, actual last comment: I really appreciate the amount of work you put into visually punctuating your points as you make them. The little visual gags and complimentary footage for what you're saying at any given moment are very well done.

[@sugurkenpferd1204]

One of the best videos about dark souls! Its weird. Sometimes it so so motivational to compare my life to darksouls. Gemsböcke are cool!

[@Mikebuck7]

I appreciate the heavy slant on existentialism- I find myself to be mostly closely assigned with that philosophy and its very interesting to see it applied to Dark Souls lore

[@Huvpalto]

Thank you for making this. Never thought that in my darkest hour, a video about dark souls will make me seek and find hope and reason. Have a lot to think about now. And a lot to seek and read i guess.

[@ZeludeRose]

As someone with ADHD, please know that when I say "I watched this all in one sitting", I am giving very high praise both to your writing and presentation. Amazing video.

[@TheGemsbok]

As someone who personally knows several people with ADHD, please know that I accept your compliment in the spirit it was given. Thank you!

[@AnneALias]

Incredible. I've watched a lot of lore videos, but this one is the most cohesive for me. I'm gonna go replay for the 10th time, but for the first time knowing what the hell is going on lol

[@exxy9931]

Having actually played through all 3 games, it's amazing how bits and pieces discussed in the video have me mentally drawing points to parts in the second and third game despite this seeming to address only the original.

[@melissazadrozny5167]

One thing I was shocked by with this game is that I actually had an easier time on my second playthrough than I did on my first, despite the fact that I was doing a soul level 1 run. It really shows that knowledge is everything in these games

[@ViperJoe]

This is the Dark Souls of philosophical analyses! In all seriousness, this was much more in-depth than I expected. I usually leave long video essays on in the background (sometimes even at double the normal speed) while I'm performing other tasks, but this time I had to sit down and genuinely listen the whole way through to truly grasp what is being said. Excellent work. Thanks to your five conclusive interpretations, I now have a very succinct way of conveying precisely what the Souls games are about and what they mean to me, which is something I have previously struggled to put into words on multiple occasions. The 1st and 4th interpretations are probably the ones that resonate the most with me.

[@TheGemsbok]

Thank you for that extraordinarily kind comment! I'm very glad to hear that the video connected with you through those two interpretations.

[@ViridianMaridian]

There's been more than enough praise for the analytical content of the video so I'd like to praise you on the production. The footage captured, the editing, the timing of injecting NPC dialogue and the choices of dialogue used... all masterful. As someone whose favourite gameplay aspect of Dark Souls is running through it again with unique characters I got especially emotional at the ending where you showed off the various builds with the character select theme in the background. That's really where the game, and by extension life, begins: deciding who you will be. That sequence tied the entire argument together wordlessly, despite there being 1.5hrs of words before it. And bonus points for using PTDE instead of the shitty remaster ;)

[@jasonhendricks4562]

Amazing analysis! Would be really cool to hear you discuss necromancy and miracles actually. Especially in relation to Nito. There isn't much out there about Nito, but I suppose you would have to deep dive into dark souls 2 to really get into that area. A video about Nietzsche and Dark Souls would be awesome too! Love this content

[@TheGemsbok]

Yeah, if you want the main reason that those topics remain "un-covered," as I put it in the conclusion, it's generally because the lore info about them is a lot thinner than many other topics in DS1. There are a few notes in my analysis here and there (e.g. lightly highlighting that re-animated skeletons are not living beings in any conventional sense, and that Nito's inclusion is one of the ways the game places emphasis on death and decay), but I didn't feel confident in pushing things much further than that. I've never personally seen, for instance, a video about Nito himself that didn't engage in some fairly wild speculation. That said, I do think there's some resonance between my thoughts on art in Lordran (in the Painted World section) and the notion that miracles are 'tales of the gods.' Might be worth exploring---or at least adding a line about it to the Ariamis section---if I were to ever expand on this project in some way in the future.

[@evirae]

I desperately want a "philosophy of..." game video series life this. A+

[@TheGemsbok]

Thank you! I'm already hard at work on another project like this one, but it's an enormous amount of work---so it will be a long time before it's available. In the meantime, more pedestrian videos (including a non-philosophical video about Elden Ring) will show up on this channel in the months ahead.

[@evirae]

@@TheGemsbok I can only imagine how much work goes into something like this! Super excited to hear similar content is in the pipeline, but also looking forward to the others-- I hope making these brings you joy, because it's really great content 😊

[@gustavohmalvares6964]

what a phenomenal essay! lately i've been finding analyses that try to recreate or formulate a traditionally coherent narrative within the game to be a bit unhelpful. i think we have a need to place stories within known frames of reference, and dark souls challenges all frames i have accumulated throughout my life. i think analysing it on its philosophical terms might be more productive to understand the work of art that it is. for now, at least, who knows how i'll be feeling about it on my 50th playthrough!

[@GaruxPuru]

Runtime aside, I'm amazed at how concise you've made your points, explanations, and discussions in this video. It's admirably accessible, and I was rapt during the entire viewing, not a single minute felt out of place. The quotes from characters interspersed throughout lent a lot of humor while backing up what you were saying in a tangible way. Bravo!

[@farty555]

Damn this one is really well made. You should have ten times the subs for this kinda effort.

[@johntrains1317]

Welp. I did it. I sat through the whole thing. That was really good. Thanks!

[@River_StGrey]

So, I just got through the Entropy, Pyromancy, and Chaos section and this shit is great. I said in a different comment that seeing you use Hawkshaw sold me on watching the rest of this, and you've done so in the best way-- not just remixing known lore or good theories, but taking them further with what their implications would be within the physical reality of a universe like Lordran. This shit is so fucking good. There've been tons of details I've never thought about explicitly before, or had the full understanding of, sufficient to verbalize. God, I love this game, and videos like this-- that are still pulling new knowledge and new ideas out of the progression of lore, years later-- is one of the reasons why. Thanks for making this.

[@serraramayfield9230]

We should create a Discord server (or any server, really) for this kind of discussion.

[@stcwilliam5632]

Really appreciate this video! It actually just makes me realizing that there’s no universally effective principle applying to everyone or it could prolongs forever, only it matters while it’s important to you as you know who you are, before you become any role in the society. Thus the inevitable fading of fire would not reduce your will of persistence personally.

[@neilsanders2341]

I’ve listened this over a week of nights to help fall asleep and picked up each night from where I can last recall. Rewatched today and am so thankful to you for this video, it’s a great accompaniment to my favourite game and has helped me put my finger on why it resonates so strongly with me.

[@TheGemsbok]

That's wonderful! I am glad that you enjoy the video, and I am also glad that it is able to provide you with the auxiliary benefit of helping you sleep. Thanks!

[@joestack1921]

This is one of my favorite videos on KZbin, along with Noah Gervais’ Dark Souls essay. I’m realizing now Dark Souls discourse might be more fun than the game itself

[@toostronk2088]

I love your analysis on the game's humour and how it paints Dark Souls and its characters in Irony

[@DocE_Brown]

Amazing work! I also love the drawn portrait of the philosophers. It makes easier to follow along with who said what and if you happen to know the face of one it gives you a little giggle ^^

[@TheGemsbok]

Thanks! And I will pass your compliments along to the artist. The next video to go up on this channel (hopefully about a month from now) will be a new 'feature-length' FromSoft analysis like this one, and it'll feature a whole different crop of philosopher sketches by the same person.

[@ChitWhitly]

This was a fantastic and thoughtful analysis of Dark Souls. Thank you.

[@TheFlenen]

Can't believe I'm not subbed! What an amazing video. Such eloquence

[@TheGemsbok]

Thank you very much! And you picked a good time to do it; my next big FromSoft analysis like this one should only be a few months away from completion now.

[@michaelwelch1472]

All I can say is bravo. This is a doctoral thesis in KZbin video form. Amazing.

[@emeraldrhymes4314]

The point on authenticity and ironic awareness over heroism or anger is very much proven by the fact that some of the only people who yet exist at the end of the world are patches, who fits this entirely, and Gael, who has been hollowed despite his heroism.

[@yeltifeltino8070]

I was today years old when I learned you can back stab the pisacas.

[@WolfHreda]

Same

[@iamamaniaint]

Lol same

[@Para2normal]

I have only just been recommended this video today and what a treat! This reminds me of Aegon of Astoras Let's Talk Lore videos. Congratulations and well done.

[@TheGemsbok]

Thank you! I'm glad that you enjoyed it.

[@interstein]

I actually named my first Souls character Sisyphus because I'm a philosophy nerd and heard about what the game would be like.

[@Monarcha_Mortis]

Man, what a journey, this was absolutely amazing. I hate that I only got this recommended after 3 months, damn. This was extremely well put together and in-depth, without it being strenuous or too complex, the pacing was also pleasant and consistent, and overall even more pleasing as it's about a series I love to death. Please, do continue your work, I'll make sure to watch it closely! If you'd take a suggestion, how about a video analysis on Bloodborne? It'd be be quite interesting as it adresses purpose and the feeling of "you are quite small in the grand cosmos, yet you can overcome even the highest beings and achieve greater purpose". Well that's it for now, thanks!

[@brycecoughlin3044]

The second of 5 conclusions, puts into words emotions and the theme I played most, thank you for putting it into words🙏🙏

[@planetxtk7567]

I'm so glad these types if videos exist. I always wanted to read philosophy books, but I can't get past all of the big words and I just get bored. Videos about videogames and comic books that I'm familiar with serve as a very entertaining vehicle for the content I've wanted to consume, but couldn't, so thank you, so much.

[@astrifer777]

i just cried to the quote about elite knights and Artorias. Sometimes, even in a dark corner, in a cold winter room, the abyss seeps in.

[@theredtreeman777]

I love this game and this video. It gave me a new perspective on this game and well on life. I've since rewatched the video a few times. It resonates with me. What you have to say. I've picked up a few works and have started reading: Existentialism: A Very Short Introduction by Flynn, Thomas as well as Beyond Good and Evil by Nietzsche, Friedrich and Existentialism Is a Humanism by Sartre, Jean-Paul. I've even started watching Dark Souls Commentary by Matthewmatosis. This video helped me sort some stuff out, thanks.

[@gusonian8637]

brilliant video. my jaw dropped when you compared the futile setback of death and the gradual erosion of resolve to how players interact with the game.

[@Sari36YT]

This is next level stuff. Well done!

[@richierichdayo]

holy fcking BASED analysis my friend. im shook to the core

[@El_Andru]

Finally, another good KZbinr. There is so much fluff in this god dammed platform. Listening to well paced research without bias or nostalgia goggles is such a pleaser. It closely resembles to what my favorite KZbinr does. Matthewmatosis. Good way with words, good examples, points made. This is quality.

[@jarltrippin]

Fromsoft gives players complete agency of both gameplay and narrative, which is something not a lot of devs do today. These stories are told in a way that only games can tell them and it's amazing. They take full utility of the medium they're in, and the analytical depth of this video shows us that games don't have to emulate movies in order to be deep (which, sadly, a lot of them do). Games can be far deeper than movies if they simply embrace the fact that they're games. And for anyone who enjoys cryptic dark fantasy atmospheres found in these games and likes being left to figure things out, here's a couple book recommendations: -Eleventh Cycle. This one is actually inspired by Dark Souls. Just look at the cover art. -Prince of Nothing. Haven't read this yet but I've been told quite a lot it feels very Dark Souls. -Book of the New Sun. I'm reading this right now and it's just fuckin' *MWAH!* -Malazan Book of the Fallen. This is just one of the most insanely beautiful stories you'll ever come across. The last two are famously difficult to finish but are extremely rewarding when you do...sound familiar?

[@piusdoe8984]

A 1hr 30min dark souls video and KZbin only showing it to me now??? Well watching it now!

[@ozmonkey6713]

I don't think your getting enough credit for the amount of effort and work you put into this . I wish I had the time to listen to it all but from the 28 min I did listen to I can tell you put more work into this than what myself and the community thought was possible . Thank you for all the effort you put in . Got my like and sub.

[@zendead5210]

I have listened to this 3 times now and each time gleaned new meaning from it for both myself in life and my interpretation of dark souls.

[@WrightlyDivided]

I listen to this every couple months probably 4/5 times so far. Great video.

[@CantTreadOnMe]

I just realized because of your video that we were able to defeat all these legendary bosses because most have suffered some sort of disability and weren't in their primes anymore after ages of being battle hardened defending their place in the world. Although they successfully held their positions they didn't come out unscathed and without losing some of themselves along the way. That actually gives so much more believability and credibility in us undead being able to conquer them. Wow my mind is blown. I always thought it was a bit too unbelievable that we could even step-up to many of these legends let alone defeat them so im glad you pointed out how they all suffered some ailment.

[@CrisMW98]

Have been watching YT for the last 10 years, definitely among my favorite videos on the platform :D

[@chronozormu457]

I was waiting for so long to find a video delving into this topic. Dark Souls is so artistic and deep that the videos it deserves are these kind, thank you so much!

[@babymanjones]

This sent shivers down my spine. The first dark souls game I played many years ago left me curious, haunted and stumped. I remember searching for analyses back then and being absolutely starved of meaningful, well thought-out content (I still cringe at the thought of the 10-minute video wisecrack had put out on the subject back then). Years later, this essay has quenched that thirst. The past few years I've struggled with finding meaning or making sense of life. I've to bite-sized philosophy bits in many kinds of media, but long-form essays which explore how the works of great thinkers apply to modern texts like these are a true feast. This was superbly structured and researched; I've thoroughly enjoyed listening to it and will be coming back to it soon. Thank you, so, so much, for putting this much effort into such a high-quality essay. You have weaved my favourite game and some of my favourite thinkers seamlessly. I'm grateful to be comtemporaneous with and to have stumbled upon works such as dark souls and your carefully orchestrated thoughts on it. I will check out your previous videos and will be eagerly awaiting your future output.

[@CetomimusGillii]

Holding an antithetical worldview myself, I find Existentialism and related schools difficult to enjoy learning about. Nevertheless you managed to keep me hopelessly hooked for length of a Hollywood film and delivered more in that time than the sum of every movie I've seen. Brilliantly executed, from the disclaimers about the limits of scope and intended audience, to the game footage (I like how the piggu hat's preternatural physical comedy served to juxtapose the mood of Oscar's dialogue) to the clarity provided by the comparison of specific ideas and conceits to aspects of the game, to the extremely handy roundup of possible lenses for interpretation related to the contents of the essay. Oh, and all that without registering much at all on my "Academic Wank-o-meter". Seems you mostly used big words where their precision improved the relay of your message. I appreciate this, as I tire easily of KZbin philosophers when they write like Juniors taking two philosophy electives this semester because they can't decide on a major and all of a sudden have escaped Plato's Cave to play Marco Polo with their benighted classmates at every lunch. It makes me want to just lose an indeterminate span of time in a Wikipedia vortex, instead. Anyways, I'll definitely be looking over your channel, but I do hope that you make something similar for Bloodborne. I'm particularly interested in your take on how it explores the themes of Humanity and the human psyche, especially the Jungian Shadow. Humanity is the only thing I'd wished you explored with just a little more depth in this video, although the concise segments you did include on it were certainly effective and interesting in their own right. Anyways, again, thanks for all the work, and I hope that this earns you many more fans. Cheers!

[@TheGemsbok]

Thank you for the thorough (and generous) review! Sadly, I have not yet played Bloodborne, as I've been accessing games exclusively through a PC since 2011. But from everything I've heard about it, it's certainly possible that a video like this may result when I am finally able to play it.

[@CetomimusGillii]

@@TheGemsbok Excellent, I hope you get the chance soon and can go in with relatively fresh eyes. I know it's probably impossible not to have had a lot of it spoiled by now, but as you know from Dark Souls, firsthand experience is quite a different thing from casual observation, and I know you'll love it. Can't wait to hear your take on it's exploration of human nature. Is it our expression of it which is mutable, or perhaps the very nature itself? Very interesting questions to be asked there, and I don't know if any other media will ever explore them more effectively. I don't say that flippantly either, I've had 6 years of playing it and ruminating on it, and I think its depth belies the fact that this was the game our Big M really wanted to make all along. Also the gameplay is celestial. Let me know when you plan on obtaining a PS4 and I'll send you a copy of the game, or I guess a donation if your machine would be of an incompatible region. Least I can do after talking it up so much! Cheers again

[@TheWickedWizardOfOz1]

@@CetomimusGillii Well, I haven't played Bloodborne either, and I haven't been spoiled about it at all despite absorbing lots of DS videos. There's a place(?) called Yharnam and there's something called "the Old Blood" and that is the extent of my knowledge. So don't overestimate the power of pop cultural osmosis. Video games aren't as mainstream as they seem to most gamers.

[@sunepedersen8537]

I'm glad someone made the big-freeze parallel. It is something I have always thought of myself but never seen done in a video.

[@chosenundead3788]

I think this is the best video on KZbin how do you not have millions of subs?

[@TheGemsbok]

Thanks very much for saying that. But everything is relative! Before I published this video in September 2021, this channel had just about 1800 subs. So the past year or so has multiplied the channel's subscriber count by more than 7. From my perspective, that's a huge change. At any rate, I feel that as long as I continue making videos, the channel will continue to grow.

[@chosenundead3788]

@@TheGemsbok amen. You remind me of the creator saviour 3.0 he does philosophical content also. He said you inspired him and wants to collab

[@partysqu1d]

It is an absolute sin that this channel only has 2.7k subscribers. This video is an absolute banger that's chock full of information. Very, very well done, Gemsbok. This video somehow made my love for this series even more expanded.

[@grantv8390]

This was extremely enjoyable, as a fan of both Dark Souls and philosophy. Thank you so much for making this.

[@pilgrim1290]

Thank you for that video. I rewatched this so many times. My favorite philosophical takeaway of this game is the “don’t you dare go hollow” line. I sometimes repeat it to myself. It makes me wanna keep going and makes me aware of who I am and who I want to be. ❤️

[@DarkReaperK97]

Finally a video of my favorite subject on my favorite videogame

[@TheGemsbok]

Well, then you and I have very similar tastes in subjects and games!

[@helomusicc]

This game speaks to me, it sharps my mind and my will. It sharps my faith and my senses. My inner voice tells me imagine that character you created is yourself, take care of him, where would you take him, build him up, you have fought this sword many times how does it move? The first try is the one that matters the most. It represents your strength and shows the decisions you make. Will you make it on one run no deaths?

[@tofadeldesdot]

Another comment to congratulate you on the amazing work. Really impressive that you managed to cobble together such a long and coherent essay. It also elevates my appreciation of the themes of the game, as a fan of Nietzsche and existentialism, but also as someone who is not at all a fan of FromSoft's enigmatic and gragmented storyelling.

[@GrimShuriken]

Bro all i have to say is that this video is amongst youtube’s greatest masterpieces. I’ve been on the thought-inducing side of this platform for as long as i can remember and nothing has given me so much food for thought through a piece of media which i also personally love like hell. Amazing work and thank you, in a way this is comforting beyond belief to me to just sit back and listen to, so many thoughts that I can’t even put to words. I might be getting a little overkill here but all i wanna say is that I appreciate ur work on this one like crazy