ESP32 in a commercial product? - From prototype to production

FREE GUIDE - From ESP32 Prototype to Production: predictabledes...
The ESP32 is a wireless microcontroller that’s really popular with makers and hobbyists.
But what about using the ESP32 in a commercial product that will be mass manufactured?
Is that realistic? And if so, is it a good or bad idea to use the ESP32 in your product?
Well, that’s what I’m going to answer for you in this video.
And get your other free guides:
Ultimate Guide - How to Develop and Prototype a New Electronic Hardware Product in 2024: predictabledes...
From Arduino Prototype to Mass Production: predictabledes...
From Raspberry Pi Prototype to Mass Production: predictabledes...
Prevent mistakes by downloading my DESIGN REVIEW CHECKLISTS for the schematic circuit, PCB layout, and enclosure 3D model design: predictabledes...
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[@PredictableDesigns]

Get your free guide From ESP32 Prototype to Production: predictabledesigns.com/esp32 And get your other free guides: Ultimate Guide - How to Develop and Prototype a New Electronic Hardware Product in 2023: predictabledesigns.com/guide From Arduino Prototype to Mass Production: predictabledesigns.com/from-arduino-youtube/ From Raspberry Pi Prototype to Mass Production: predictabledesigns.com/rpi Prevent mistakes by downloading your FREE DESIGN REVIEW CHECKLISTS for the schematic circuit, PCB layout, and enclosure 3D model design: predictabledesigns.com/design-review-checklists-youtube/ Want my personal help on your project? If so, check out my Hardware Academy program: predictabledesigns.com/Academy

[@to.l.2469]

the ESP32 is a Chinese design. Yes, and that is exactly the huge problem! Choosing Chinese products basically increases dependence on an autocracy/dictatorship and that is exactly the Chinese strategy! I admit it is the job of politicians to deal with such questions, but you should always keep that in mind if there is still a spark of democracy in you! (I know that under Trump plus Musk the USA is no longer a real democracy (but an oligarchy), but it can be much worse…!)

[@ThatTalkingDogGuy]

Gotta say, your videos, especially about getting a new electronic gadgets to market, are inspirational, and incredibly well structured and presented. And I'm not just saying that because my new device uses an ESP32! Seriously, in just a few videos, you have provided me with confidence in the correct steps I have already taken, and a solid - and thankfully small - to do list for steps I now need to take. Thank you so much for spending the time in crafting these videos!

[@cdevidal]

I’m also working on an ESP32 product called SecureCoop for chicken keepers. What’s yours called?

[@PredictableDesigns]

That's so nice to hear, thank you!

[@tookitogo]

5:49 One other big advantage of ESP32: availability. During the pandemic, when every other MCU manufacturer struggled to keep anything in stock, ESP32 products remained available in volume.

[@PredictableDesigns]

Great point!

[@jdsan6009]

Another advantage with ESP32 is that it can be programmed in Arduino, Micropython and C. The two first languages are useful in the prototype stage as they allow to test functionalities much faster.

[@PredictableDesigns]

Yes, great point. I commonly suggest using the Arduino IDE with the ESP32 to simplify development. Thanks for commenting!

[@cdevidal]

I love MicroPy but it is definitely limited in critical ways

[@waveform2k]

The only ESP32 product that I know of that I use is the HaritoraX Wireless (not the Haritora 1.1b), it is a 17 gram ESP32 based IMU motion tracking device that you strap to your body. It has an impressive 20 hour battery life per module and the PC connection + flashing for updates is done through Bluetooth. It is not a flawless product because it is susceptible to drift and geomagnetic interference, however it is pleasantly functional in a good environment and I think it's one of the examples where they have taken an ESP32 prototype into production where the product isn't very far off from the prototype.

[@thefreem0]

First I have designed many production systems using the ESP32... I will keep using them. However I do not TRUST them... there is a bunch of code I don't have access to that lives in the builtin ROM. It is used as a cheap WiiFi/Blutooth connection peripheral... the real product code lives in a trusted standalone micro-controller and I use an UART link between them. I would not recommend the ESP32 to be used in a product if all your secret sauce code is running on them.

[@PredictableDesigns]

Thanks for sharing that and commenting!

[@keithsummers1889]

Drop me a line if you know of any contract opportunities with the Esp32 . I have been engineering code for the Esp32 for over 4 years - C++/IDF. Thanks.

[@DMS20231]

Do you think the ESP32 is phoning home??

[@thefreem0]

@@DMS20231 Not necessarily... although that could be a possibility, I have not heard of anyone seeing that behavior. My main issue is the firmware is not secure with their design.

[@keithsummers1889]

@@thefreem0 is there just one shed of evidence that offers any support at all to the idea that the ROM microcode is insecure? Typically, that firmware is hard coded and immutable. If they even remotely allowed anything nefarious to occur there, it could sink the company. Do you really think they would risk that for data that wouldn't mean anything to them? It just doesn't make any sense.

[@muralikrishnan6231]

I think the most attractive part in ESP32, apart from WIFI (or even more than wifi) is that the features of dual core, sleep modes and the rtc. It can handle a quite diverse types of applications.

[@illyakrit7494]

Thank you for a good onboarding!

[@TvistoProPro]

One of the reasons the ESP32 is so popular is it's predecessors, namely the 8266. They (or a variant) were used in nearly every Wifi-enabled switch/plug in the market until about 3 years ago, when the market started moving toward the ESP32 and/or similar chipsets. The open documentation put out by ESPressif allowed for easy hacking, and the rise of custom firmware like Tasmota. One could argue that using the 8266 was not the best idea, because it lacked some simple hardware level protections (efuse for write-only boot flash, etc). But with the ESP32 line, there are built in safeties one can turn on in production settings to prevent 99% of the hacking that was done in the 8266 line.

[@PredictableDesigns]

Thanks for sharing that!

[@HermanWillems]

Try building systems for the Army, any processor from China and many other products are forbidden. And you don't know about the backdoors .... YET.

[@mafhper]

I love working and having fun with these little esp32s. I always wonder what to do and the capabilities of this little sign always surprise me.

[@TheManufacturerrrrrrrrrrrrrr]

I have an AMAZING project dropping next year that I feel nicely demonstrates the capabilities of one ESP32!

[@mytube1000javed]

Hi, how to change API keys and secret code in a commercial product?

[@PredictableDesigns]

I don't know, and it depends on the product.

[@user-mr3mf8lo7y]

Wi-fi feature can be disabled, if not needed. On the other hand, #1 strength of ESP based modules is offering 4MB+ eprom.

[@Rickol91]

Thanks for bringing up this topic, I’m inspired by something like la metric does with their smart clock and api widgets why not making it HD with ESP32 to build in some nice graphs and stuff which is quite hard to simulate with pixel art

[@avmattos1]

The Emporia Vue 2 whole house energy monitoring uses ESP32 as well.

[@PredictableDesigns]

Great to know, thanks for sharing that!

[@NE-Explorer]

Does ESP 32 come with certification for FCC DOC and Europe/CISPR intentional emitters

[@PredictableDesigns]

The modules are pre-certified but not the bare chips.

[@jasonamosco318]

Thank you for this.

[@hello81642]

What are your recommendations if wireless connectivity is not necessary?

[@PredictableDesigns]

Well it depends. I'd need a lot more info to make any suggestions. Probably an STM32, but maybe an RP2040.

[@cdevidal]

The external antenna doesn’t give better reception than the internal (a little worse, actually), and using an antenna with higher gain is forbidden by the FCC. The only advantage is if your enclosure is metal.

[@lo2740]

very peremptive statement, which is also very wrong.

[@cdevidal]

@@lo2740 I’m certainly no expert and could be entirely wrong, but why would you say that? I based what I said on the datasheets, are they wrong?

[@simontillson482]

Hmm, not really. PCB antennas tend to have rather terrible gain and radiation patterns, making their range pretty low. A little quarter wave external antenna will almost always perform a lot better. Antenna gain vs PA power level is a bit of a minefield in terms of FCC regulations, but it mostly comes down to ERP - effective radiated power. That is a system level measurement, and is one reason why FCC certification is only given on the basis of a certain module / antenna / casing and grounding situation. Change any one of those things, and ERP (and also extraneous out-of-band emissions) also change.

[@cdevidal]

@@simontillson482 don’t take my word for it. The data sheets show that the external antenna model has slightly worse gain. Go see.

[@Foxfried]

@@cdevidal Sorry sir but you are 100% wrong any hardware developer with the most basic equipment can measure the difference between the internal and external antenna.

[@mauriciotavares5360]

Hi John, thanks for the excellent video! I think you could also comment about the programming tools for the ESP32. In my experience, hardware is at most 30% of the product development effort.

[@PredictableDesigns]

Great point, thank you. I do tend to maybe over focus sometimes on the Hardware. But I do love software too.

[@jdsalmonson]

I am curious what dual core microcontroller SoCs you'd recommend as an alternative to ESP32 (particularly the ESP32S3 for instance) if WiFi isn't required. I've been working with this chip for awhile and have enjoyed having the WiFI capability for debugging, but I ultimately don't need WiFi. I find the Espressif IDF to be quite mature and useful (it also has some nice optimizations for machine learning operations), but if there are offerings by other manufacturers that have similar compute power and mature interface at the same price point (but w/o wireless capability), I'd be interested to hear more about them.

[@PredictableDesigns]

The ESP32 is so price competitive that even if you don't need WiFi (or Bluetooth) it still makes sense for many designs. The only other dual core I know of that's this cheap (actually cheaper) is the RP2040 from Raspberry Pi. The dual core Cortex ARM microcontroller costs only $1. It's loaded with lots of power and features for a ridiculously low price.

[@seppeseppe-jq7nr]

is the esp working like sps s 7 from siemens? or is there a art windows programm who can make errors in controlling process? sorry bad englisch

[@calvinaizumiramadhan2685]

What type of the microcontroler that can use for industrial aplication and product john?

[@PredictableDesigns]

That depends on what it does. Industrial or consumer doesn't really matter for selecting the MCU.

[@HermanWillems]

@@PredictableDesigns this comment instantly made you an electronics beginner. It does matter, because proper chip brands have big track record on being able to keep a chip in production for x years. Also microcontrollers and chips from China are forbidden in MANY European products, systems and industries. Especially in the military. The ESP32 is only used in Chinese products. Your code is also less secure on a ESP32, while western chip brand really protect your code much better. There are so many reason why Western companies never choose for ESP32's even though they are amazing for hobby use and super cheap.

[@Fixaj]

S3?

[@radistor_ua]

Hi John, nice and informative video, as all on your channel, thanks! But you didn't touch a question of the firmware protection. I believe that's really actual topic for mass-market products, unfortunately not very well highlighted at all. There are some brief instructions but nothing about how this can be implemented in serial production, for an example. And I want to hear your opinion, is this necessary from perspective that binary probably includes some token for cloud services and is this somehow solved in projects based on ESP32.

[@richdobbs6595]

In considering my potential product, it seems like one of the comparatively expensive and clunky aspects is just connecting the signals together using cables. Dupont jumpers are prone to bad loose connections and don't have cheap connections with custom PCBs. So it is tempting to go with wireless data communication, but then you still need power. Is there a standard solution that doesn't require unnecessary WiFi, but instead allows a network of USB C cables, which can provide power and data, as well as cheap reliable cabling?

[@PredictableDesigns]

If I understand your question correctly, yes there are lots of microcontrollers that support USB without wireless functions.

[@richdobbs6595]

@@PredictableDesigns What are some of those microcontrollers? Especially ones that have ADCs.

[@zakspop]

My Atomstack X20 Pro Laser engraver/cutter has a ESP32-WROOM-32U as the heart of it's motherboard.

[@kokalti]

So if ESP32 development board is already FCC certified wouldn't your custom PCB that the board will be integrated into have to be certified as well?

[@PredictableDesigns]

You rarely will integrate a dev kit on a custom board, and instead it will be a module. Correct though, and using a pre-certified module doesn't get you entirely out of FCC certification, it just drastically reduces the complexity and cost of the certification.

[@VndNvwYvvSvv]

ESP32 has notoriously bad ADCs. You have to use attenuation and voltage dividing to match to avoid nonlinearity and noise problems. Even so, they're noisier than other MCUs. I avoid them unless integrated wifi is necessary.

[@AliKhodrAliG]

Can you explain a little more in depth for me please? I’m building bionic prosthetics for children and I’m aiming for perfection. This seems quite simple but a circuit diagram or more thorough explanation could help me implement this suggestion since I’m using a lot of pressure sensitive resistors for example

[@yugaindiranmarimuthu7310]

​@AliKhodrAliG esp32 has internal adc which is very bad because they are noisy and also non linear... i usualy just use external i2c adc or evem spi adc if i want fast readings

[@VndNvwYvvSvv]

@@AliKhodrAliG No such thing as perfection. If you have to ask questions about these things, I doubt you're actually making bionic prosthetics. I think you're trying to build a demo to look good and get hired somewhere that you can sucker.

[@andre-le-bone-aparte]

Just found your channel. Excellent Content - another sub for you sir!

[@PredictableDesigns]

Awesome, thank you!

[@ADAM-k5p7x]

why didn't you mention slime vr ?

[@PredictableDesigns]

Probably because I've never heard of it before:)

[@momentomoridoth2007]

my xtool laser has an esp32 in its mobo. I had to smile to myself a little when I Saw it.

[@VishalSharma-en9sb]

Namaste Sir, Thank You for the video. I am from India[ Bharat], I want to use ESP-C3FH4 Soc in my product for manufacturing, which means I need to make an antenna myself[ using PCB ] or I can use a chip antenna. So do I need an FCC certificate for this or not? I have read online that if we use the ESP32 module we don't need FCC certification, but for ESP32 SoC, FCC certification is required. Can you confirm if this is true?"

[@PredictableDesigns]

FCC authorization is always required but using a pre certified module makes it easier and cheaper. You lose that benefit if designing a custom antenna so full FCC certification is required. I have a video here on certifications that explain this all. Cheers.

[@VishalSharma-en9sb]

@@PredictableDesigns Ok, I understood sir, Please send the video link Thank you very much!

[@-Slade-]

I wouldn't say a microcontroller is not a microprocessor though. It has a CPU and cache just like a desktop processor. The microcontroller just has more embedded peripherals which makes it a System-On-Chip . Yes they are slower and less complex than their desktop counter parts but they do basically the same thing. Many modern Desktops CPUs now are just SoCs. The same can be said of arm processors vs arm microcontrollers they do the same thing just one is more powerful than the other. One Arm M0+ can be clocked at 133 Mhz as a microcontroller but be clocked at 800Mhz or above to be a processor for a phone or iot device. The esp32 itself can and does run operating systems and be used just like SBC. I think we forgot that microcontrollers were used to be called embedded processors

[@PredictableDesigns]

Yes of course they are really both just CPU's. But they are very different from both an application perspective and a development perspective.

[@platin2148]

Well already happened but no network access for this thing. You still have to certify and let you module be checked. Well the RF design is trivial for a real manufacturer that creates mass products.

[@lanceharvie]

Great explanation

[@PredictableDesigns]

Glad it was helpful!

[@ПетрПроценко]

It has a lot of cheap dev modules that can also be used in a small scale automation of identical production lines. So the plan is to make prototyping with esp32's with Wi-Fi and when Wi-Fi load is exceeded one can switch to more reliable wired connections! Why develop your own board if your process does not need human input on all the lines, only actuators and LEDs? Use pre-made modules. Why use multiple industrial grade PLCs on all of the production lines if you can use just one expensive PLC and delegate simpler indication functions to cheap ESP32's while concentrating critical alarm and security related sensors on a single industrial PLC per workshop.

[@ПетрПроценко]

In fact this remote IO isles model is what Siemenses and Schneiders themselves came up with in 2000s, however their solution implied the use of proprietary devices in place of ESP32 dev modules, that almost nullified the economical effect of implementing such a simplification (not using a fully functional PLC in remote parts of the same production line)

[@TheObiwantoby]

I believe ESP32 is used in the Whisker Litter Robot.

[@PredictableDesigns]

Thanks! I'll check it out.

[@icarossavvides2641]

Rather late for this video don't you think? I've personally come across a number of commercial products, in addition to the ones mentioned, using the ESP32/8266. These chips have been around for a long time and they couldn't possibly have survived if they sold only to the limited amateur market.

[@PredictableDesigns]

That's true, but not every maker using an ESP32 knows this already.

[@plcworker]

Ok, thanks for the explanation, but not everything is rosy. There must also be disadvantages,

[@PredictableDesigns]

I'd say the two main disadvantages of the ESP32 compared to similar WiFi chips is their increased programming difficulty and lack of good tech support.

[@plcworker]

@@PredictableDesigns Thank you very much for answering. I'm thinking of using a WFI32, the advantage I have is my experience of many years working with microcontrollers and tools, from MCHP, however, I must analyze the ESP32 option

[@Really2950]

I use for internet radio. Super cheap and easy

[@lo2740]

i wouldnt call adding an antenna and a PI matching circuit a "fully custom RF design", ESP32 is a SoC, there is no "RF design", only a very basic matching and feed trace.

[@PredictableDesigns]

True, but from a certifications perspective they are both considered custom.

[@lo2740]

@@PredictableDesigns i know that rules are slightly different for FCC but for CE it doesnt matter at all if the module is "pre certified" you pay exactly the same price and all the CE-RED tests have to be passed in both cases.

[@theagentsmith]

With CE certification it is a lot easier and cheaper if the RF module is pre-certified as they are allowed to skip a bunch of tests. Been there, done that.

[@kevinparker48]

Yes, I too found the ESP32 incredibly buggy. They need to stop doing them selves a dis-service with so many branches and chip types now. esp-idf has become a mess and is unstable. They need to stop with feature releases for a solid 2 months to focus only on fixes.

[@srinivaastammaali2937]

Good Insights... Thanks

[@PredictableDesigns]

Glad it was helpful!

[@guatagel2454]

Thank you!

[@PredictableDesigns]

You're welcome!

[@Ech01378]

The worst thing in my opinion is the poor debugging method for esp32. Comparing it to stm32 it gets terribly behind. Espressif should care about it. Imagine a world with stm32 + wifi, that would be a pain for all those esp32 boards

[@roscosmo]

basically every smarthome device i own is an esp32 under the hood

[@PredictableDesigns]

Not necessarily, but quite a few are.

[@sallyfromthevalley66]

Thanks!

[@PredictableDesigns]

You're most welcome!

[@TheNamelessOne12357]

ESP32 sucks at realtime. It just cannot react as fast and predictable, as other MCUs. Probably because it's SDK looks like a bloatware. And debugging is pain in the ass. I tried ESP32 and even created some working projects, but returning to STM32 was such a relief.

[@HermanWillems]

ESP32 is powerfull and has many options. But in reality it's still a cheap toy and doesn't meet the professional specs. And in many cases is even FORBIDDED to be used by western companies.

[@Foxfried]

@@HermanWillems ESP32 works well if you need to drive a LCD display and add bluetooth/wifi to it but it would then communicate with a main wifi circuit such as a Novuton or STM32. Many people that are jumping up and down with esp32 have just made a wifi powered tooth brush so they assume its a chip that would work every where. There is a reason why its cheap and yes the ADC are terrible.

[@dr0gaN]

@@Foxfried but that's the point. For your wifi powered toothbrush timings and precision do not matter. Choose the right tool for the job.

[@dawsonpate7385]

​@@dr0gaNsadly not to many actually get that part. Yeah sure something else could have been "better" in the sense of capabilities, but for something like that it just doesn't matter, if I were making it I'd just want the cheapest option that gets the job done . . . And u can't really get better than that. If u don't use an adc then why da f would u even care about adc performance of the chip being used. If u don't need floating point then why get a more expensive option that has it. Same game for every other part . . .

[@minteligencia]

Nice 😊

[@PredictableDesigns]

Glad you liked it, thanks!

[@MaxQ10001]

What a strange question...

[@nick4088]

It's already been done. It's commercial products are all over.

[@PredictableDesigns]

Yes, that's very true. But many makers may not know that:) Thanks for commenting.

[@HermanWillems]

Most if not all of these commercial products are from China as well...

[@jsonslim]

The answer: why not?

[@Foxfried]

ESP32 would rarely ever make it commercial production it is almost always used to power a GUI/LCD display and add wifi/bluetooth, never for any actual functions, those jobs are still done by STM32, Novuton, And various other established micro controllers. Main reasons for this are the low quality ADC and high power consumption. Espressif will still need a decade to optimize this chip. DIY and Makers like this chip because they could care less they just want to show everyone the wifi enabled tooth brush they made.