NAMM '18 - Taylor V-Class Bracing Demo

[@duffman7793]

This is the best sounding guitar I’ve heard since watching these kinds of videos

[@BenFairbank]

I was thinking bs until he played all the harmonics. That's definitely something that is a function of the resonance of the instrument

[@urbansoban2669]

Oh, wow, that sustain!

[@urbansoban2669]

I was never really into Taylors, but man, do I have GAS now

[@rzh3443]

I had the opportunity to try out several of these at a Taylor Road Show - Parkway Music in NYS. They definitely have a different sound feel and are very articulated note by note. The top vibrates very freely. Each of the four models have their own sound personalities. They also brought a custom maple- spruce GA , conventionally braced, which , to my ears, sounded just as good ! The V brace uses a larger bridge plate to disperse the string tension, i gather to make up for the lighter bracing. The rest of the guitar is pretty much the same. I hope to revisit them soon in a quieter atmosphere. Mr . Powers is indeed on to something here.

[@elwinransom6232]

That's Toby from the Office.

[@oscarmorales1621]

Elwin Ransom best comment bro! After I read this I couldn’t take him seriously! Hahah

[@SouperDave]

Anyone who doubts this needs to find a new 914ce and play it. I’ve NEVER liked Taylor Guitar’s sound. I walked into Guitar Center and picked up a new 914 without knowing ANYTHING about this new bracing even existing. It blew me away and has now replaced a D41 or D45 as my acoustic unicorn. The sustain, bass, yes BASS response and projection beat my beloved Martins hands down

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

...did you play a V-Class 914?

[@robmds8256]

This is a huge leap in guitar word! What a genius Andy is! Lets see if other luthier will adapt this.

[@alexcorll90]

Wow. Very deep sounding guitar. Definitely something special in the new bracing pattern. I suspect the torrefied top also helps.

[@songsfromspringcreekave821]

I love how Taylor has found a way to do something unique to an instrument that has had basically the same design for decades and decades. That is how you stand apart from other great guitar builders. That said, I have a 2015 914ce that has nearly perfect intonation up through at least the 14th fret. That to me is quite a high bar for build quality. And the sound... Holy smokes! Sounds like a piano with beautiful sustain even on the higher frets. If this new design is actually better, I don't know if I have a developed enough ear to notice. I love several makers, Martin, Guild, Borgouis... But Taylor to me, Is the Gold Standard of today's mainstream acoustic builders.

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

...now even more radiant...

[@Blunt33bdx]

Honestly it got me really hyped, I like the comment saying "the most piano-like sounding guitar I've heard" In my case even with the "youtube sound" in my earplugs I heard the difference with a normal other "quality guitar". Damn I have to try one of those new taylors !!!

[@rmzzz76]

What my ears are hearing: Balanced sustain and volume up the neck and that balance gives the timbre a compressed effect. Perhaps the most piano-like sounding guitar I've heard... I think this represents the type of tone character and playablity attributes Taylor has been striving for. It's a peaceful consistent sound. If you want to be the Kenny G of guitar players there is now an instrument for you. However some of us like a little more scruff. A little more personality and bite out of the instrument and a little less pleasantville.... Tankfully Gibson and Martin will still be building X braced guitars.

[@seanmarshall5569]

I agree with this. Andy Powers and Bob Taylor seem equally driven to create a very pristine sound, which is cool for certain styles, moments, and feelings, but not for all. I do really like how they don't care what other people want or seek. It may not be for me or you, but it's hard to argue against bc Taylor is very much just doing their own thing.

[@rblaclewell]

Really my Takamine EF341SC can easily harmonics up the neck on the E string. Luthiers will love repairing these as well.

[@maraviyoso8473]

Will the X-bracing die? Of course not; but this V-bracing is here to stay and revolutionize the way guitars sound.

[@joukovaananen5951]

Oh, that guitar sounds so good, every note rings!

[@FiddlerSteve]

My concern would be with how well this guitar will hold up over time, with a more flexible top. X-bracing is tried and true. But those high notes do sound great!

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

...they use new glue too.

[@leesamuelson]

top is only more flexible on the sides but more ridged inline with the string pull thus stronger. if you have the strength and rigidity along the string pull area the sides can be flexible as there is no pull in those areas

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

The first of these was made at least 4 years ago, and is still just fine.

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

For the naysayers, put an x-braced guitar on a strobe tuner. You'll see the note undulating, wavering from the center pitch. Now do the same with the K14ce Builder's Edition and you'll find that the note stays rock-steady in place. That's a product of the v-class bracing, the purity of the note created, and the lack of conflict/chaos between the segments.

[@MustangDesudiroz]

The harmonics proves this guitars a winner

[@modelcitizen1977]

He's the John Carmack of guitars if he did what he says he did. That's like the holy grail.

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

for me the issues resolved by V-Class Bracing, have gone back 50+ yrs of work-arounds, so, ya, the Guitar Grail!

[@RichardsGuitarshop]

Go to 5.45 and you will see Andy showing the incredible demonstration of how the harmonics appear where they would normally be soaked up by the guitars vibrations. Sounds incredible right? Anyone in marketing will tell you - say it with confidence and people will believe you. Just pick up your guitar and you will find the exact same harmonics. I get these exact same harmonics as clear as day in exactly the same positions out of my £265 Eastman.

[@mandohat]

Woah!!! Blown away

[@davidsteinart]

it sounded like reverb on the signal until he pulled the mic away and talked. totally dry. That's awesome.

[@Eric_DiRisio]

holy sustain and overtones batman

[@RG_bmgamer]

IF not wrong Martin used to brace their entry level guitars say the D1 or even the DM with the A bracing ? This looks like an inverted A bracing ? duh ....its called V class

[@sfatie]

this dude is interesting

[@nicholash8021]

If you want to actually try a V-class Taylor before you buy one, don't hold your breath. Taylor themselves can't tell you where you can actually go to try one. They apparently don't even have a record of who they sell their guitars to according to my last conversation with them. No luck with GC either. They seem to keep them only in their warehouses for now. Can't find as ingle one on a showroom floor based on a recent national inventory search (easy to go beyond the 200 mile limit if you know how to edit HTML). Anyway, if you are ready to spend 3 to 9 thousand dollars on a leap of faith, then I wish you the best of luck. I have no complaints about my 516e Custom other than when it's plugged in through the ES2.

[@a-meteo7778]

What's up when your 516e Custom is plugged in thru the ES2 please?

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

Why are you posting this BS? Not true at all. Factory knows where every singlle guitar went to.

[@mars6433]

So, all other Taylor's are now obsolete ??

[@BreadLightPray_EWFMgtr]

I would say rather they are gunna go 'Vintage' 😊 - since I own about a half dozen or so

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

...only the ones with ur attitude...

[@mars6433]

No.........maybe. HA! Premier Guitar RULES and, I just subscribed to their magazine. Look, Taylor's RULE, but, this looks pretty cool and soon, most of their models will have this system.

[@worstworkshop]

I'm not sure you understand. The implication isn't toward old Taylor guitars. It's EVERY steel string acoustic guitar ever made. Martin must be pretty scared right now. They should be. For what it's worth, I have a Taylor 710ce from 1999, when Taylor was still using Fishman electronics. Is it obsolete? Of course not. It sounds awesome, because the instrument has had time to mature. You can't make a new instrument that sounds like my guitar.

[@mars6433]

I much prefer the Fishman over the Expression system. "We" used to be a Taylor dealer. LOVE the 600 series.

[@JohnHorneGuitar]

Very interested to try one of these. Isn't violin bracing similar?

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

me 2

[@carloslozada2121]

Everything sounds great when pros play

[@asmrindustries5431]

Carlos Lozada true to an extent

[@rcattz5755]

Hey Carlos, I have been an average guitar player for over 25 years and I picked up an Andy Powers designed Taylor 618e and I must say it made me sound like a pro. I have been a Martin fan my whole life owning a custom shop Martin. I gave it to my son and bought the 618. I thought how can you make a better sounding guitar and 3 years later he did.

[@thegee-tahguy4877]

Try one with JLD truss in it so the back and sides do more than reflect.

[@Melkisedek777]

I don't need a Taylor when I have a Takamine P4DC! : ) Good balanced sound, and the price is likewise good!

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

You're right. Until an audiologist corrects your hearing, a guitar that good would be wasted on you.

[@Melkisedek777]

@@extraordinaryacoustics8424 : ) Hehe

[@BreadLightPray_EWFMgtr]

gunna have to rename the company "Taylor Powers" once Andy has taken over ❣😊

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

I spoke with Bob a bit a couple weeks ago on that subject. It will always be Taylor Guitars, but you're correct. Andy is in charge, and has been for some time now. The original version of the #17 models was made over 5 years ago now. Andy has been integrating tested and confirmed technolgies since 2014/15., along with revoicing of the 800 and 600s. And they will continue to be brave and dedicated enough to continue to innovate. I salute that. They could have stopped in 2006 or so, but they continue to take the time, expense and energy to improve guitars for us.

[@tweedguitar9103]

What was the exact model of this guitar Andy Powers was using in this video please ? thankyou

[@BigMikeGuitar]

I like this guy - really cool engineering conversation. Is this design anywhere near the Kasha bracing design philosophy? Could one translate this design philosophy into an electric guitar design?

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

...more details in Wood and Steel, Taylor Guitar mag...

[@3cardmonty602]

Gary is going to make a bamboo guitar next year.

[@kickpublishing]

So we're really saying that the master classical guitar builders got the bracing right a hundred years ago and Martin should never have moved the world of steel string guitar traditions to X bracing

[@nicholastotoro7721]

It still sounds like a Taylor to me.

[@SkyFelixMusic]

Well yeah, it’s a Taylor so....

[@maraviyoso8473]

Did you expect it to sound like an Esteban?

[@markstaggs7342]

Yeah that's why I have five of them and want more

[@cloudvsephiroth215]

Would V bracing scale down effectively. Could we see v bracing on GS Mini's?

[@ianb6814]

Taylor's previous highest level of bracing (CV) was reserved for their high end guitars only, so I think not for a while.

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

The GS mini has no back bracing, but all the US MADE Taylor’s are now V-class. Dipunno if Andy will Chang pe the top bracing on the mini or not but it certainly can be used on smaller guitars.

[@petehowlett3966]

This is a very 'dry' sound which I like. You have to rethink what you expect to hear.

[@zerosiii]

What's this style of music called that he keeps playing in these demo videos? These 'short' songs, pick only, but sounds so full, like fingerstyle; is he improvising, or can I find somewhere songs like these to practice them?

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

Americana, best bet is to learn off video...

[@knightman_cometh]

He scares me

[@markstaggs7342]

I have six guitars and five are Taylor's my guitars I bought brand new 2015 614ce 2018 814ce dlx v brace 2015 816ce a baby taylor and a 2015 914ce and the only martin guitar that I've ever liked that I bought used because the new Martin's I played were horrible and I played every martin they had from d18s to d28s 35s 41s and 45s and the 1980 was really great but Taylor's to me are the best guitars out there my brother in law is a martin guy he would not put my 814ce v brace down I mean he absolutely loved it and he has a d35 and he admitted my Taylor's sounded better then his d35 I also really like a good guild guitar but I'm in love with Taylor's I'm getting a k24 my next guitar or a 914 v brace I like the x braces the v braces are just different not better just different my martin I was lucky to find this guitar I've got a lot of money in these guitars they are my pieces of art love taylor guitarssorry about my punctuation I'm not good at it as you can tell

[@netterstyl]

So, when you run out of gimmicks, what do you do? Well, you come up with new gimmicks, of course! Gotta move that product. I can just see these guys scratching their collective heads, and asking, "How are we gonna structure this hype?" And then it came to them: "If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em." -Harry Truman

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

How come guys like you run your fingers when you've not even played it yet? What's your reason for beef anyway? Did somebody not get his attention or nap today?

[@marknorris3769]

if it's as simple as a different bracing architecture WHY can't it be replicated up and down the range ?

[@ronzinale]

mark norris they will eventually do, but not now. This way, you are forced to buy the most expensive models to get your hands over that technology.

[@mandohat]

Because you have to make sure it lasts, and the tops don't cave in over time. You don't bank an entire company on one new idea.

[@ron980]

I believe that Andy Powers said in an interview (Greg Koch interview maybe?) that it just takes a bit of time to create the tools needed to mass manufacture this bracing on a full scale, rather than just these builder's edition-type deals. But the hope is that eventually it will be on many Taylors up and down the range.

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

Actually they've had it for 4 years now. See my other comment below for the explanation.

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

Sure, it takes time for tooling, etc., But there's more to it than that. Every shape is different, and the woods themselves are also factors. For example, the Advanced Performance Bracing found in the 814 and 914 is also found in the 614, but only maple (of the regular models) has that bracing stopping before it touches the sides, because rosewood can't handle it the way that maple can. There are many factors involved in making a guitar, many variables. Trust though, Andy knows what he's doing and why.

[@chengyang4722]

Its the player that makes music not the guitar.

[@modelcitizen1977]

A great player can make a good guitar sound great, but it's a much bigger task to make a bad guitar sound good. Intonating individual notes on the fly is something easier said than done.

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

...Typically the better ones have better instruments...

[@MrSHAUN9965]

Not sure about this v bracing only thing is price will go up for sure 🤔

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

...worry 'bout the music, not the money...

[@justinkearl2212]

Aaaand pricing is the same.

[@HexenProzess]

Im down with the concept, but why not explain some science behind this? Seems like good ideas with a bunch of fluff..

[@adamimberti6948]

Randall Smith Because there's no science behind it. It is another variation on a bracing pattern that has resulted in some nice sounding guitars.... to go along with the many other nice sounding guitars from many other guitar makers. Once these go in to production you'll find good ones and ok ones, some that sustain longer and some that play more in tune. In all the interviews I've seen he gets very vague when asked about the intonation and every time he hits a note to show how much they sustain or plays a chord up the neck to show how well they intonate he does so veery veeery quietly. But he does talk loud which is nice I guess.

[@rzh3443]

That was explained at the Taylor event I attended. When you play a chord, the notes formulate from all over the top, sometimes creating a slight dissonance on certain notes within a chord, One example he showed was an open G where you can get dissonance on the open B string. The new bracing eliminated that and it sounded sweeter ( to my ears). I usually play the D note on the B string within the G chord, somewhat because of that slight dissonance. The rep phrased the response of the bracing as improving the ordering of the note formulation. This was contracted to the concept of compensation of intonation ( saddle, fret condition, neck relief, etc.) The proof of the pudding was that first couple the store had sold within six hours. Time will tell if they move into Martin Bluegrass territory. My guess is this will be mostly popular for finger style and singer songwriters. I also believe they are fairly priced given the workmanship quality and features ( torrified tops, B and S woods, inlays , etc.)

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

With x-bacing you end up with 4 different quadrants to the top, each different in size/shape/thickness, so when the sound wave moves through them, they're in conflict with each other, chaotic. With V-class, that has been eliminated.

[@mattcottrell3336]

@@extraordinaryacoustics8424 even all this time later, people aren't getting this. Thanks for posting this last year.

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t mean something deserving of disparagement. I put x-brace on the scope. The more wavers broadly, as much as .25-0.5 of a halftone. Put v-class under the same circumstances sits rock steady. The wavering is the result of the 4 quadrants of x brace, a result gone in v-class. There is a down side: models which already have aspects of the v-class (612, 614, 812, 814) aren’t going to be as much improved as the 314-514, all the ore so with a softer cedar top. Still, it is both audible and measurable. Whether the individual ear likes it or not is taste, but denying that there is a difference is worthy of ridicule.

[@leesamuelson]

it is hard to hear true sound with all the compression in you true etc. many PRO players have played these and have said they sound and do stuff other guitars cant. I have heard a Nashville player play a country riff and it sounds great. No martin or Gibson would sound any better. a lot in the player and how they attack it. I also do not see the bridge pulling with age like decades old x bracing does. ( yes most do even a tad) this bracing is more inline with string pull. so much stronger in that direction and stiffer. the sides do not need to be as stiff thus creating volume. Or I guess people can keep drinking the over century old coolaid that the original x bracing is the best and no one could ever improve on it! To think that significant improvements can not be made is idiotic. One reason why Taylor will continue in the future while others fall or struggle. Hang on to your Gibsons as the current CEO just may make the company no longer if he keeps it going as he has . They are HURTING big time!

[@marknorris3769]

bridges pulling up with age is a bizarre fact of life for acoustics , yes it is time for acoustic guitars to evolve

[@rcattz5755]

People don't like Taylor bolt on necks but they claim it sounds better which I agree with. it also allows you to shim the neck up as the bridge changes with time. Taylor is by far superior than all the rest. Since Andy Powers came aboard Taylor is the best guitar manufacturer in the world..This new V bracing must have the competition saying we are screwed.

[@butchd18]

+Rob Cattz hold ur horses this bracing has to prove itself this point dont know where taylor guitars are going at this stage like thousands of taylor guitar players even like myself have old 800 900 series which didnt come cheap where do they stand now when a guy comes up an says O you need buy this new V brace taylor its so much better n all that bla bla what value will our old well played in taylors be worth then

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

...also, the correction to even temperment tuning was secondary, "accidental" result of new bracing...

[@extraordinaryacoustics8424]

No, you don't NEED to. But you may want to. Is this going to make your current guitars sound bad? Taylor is going to the future. Or would you rather we were still using DOS and computers with 64k of RAM? Within the year, the upper model Grand Auditoriums will be getting v-class. Eventually they'll all get that way. And FYI, this has been in the works for 4 years. It's not just a whim.

[@bjdenil]

Wow!!!

[@johnschubarth2000]

Does that mean all the x-braced guitars will be discounted?

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

they should!

[@leesamuelson]

eventually for Taylor yes at least in the standard US line. they said will be trickling into res of line through out 2018. Even Bob said this new bracing makes the whole guitar more TAYLOR.

[@MustangDesudiroz]

If only the vine inlay ends on the first fret too.. My of is tingling.. lol. Really the inlay should have covered all the 22 frets

[@melvynobrien6193]

Single note sounded weird, as if there was a subtle tremolo. I don't hear any great improvement, if it's an improvement at all.

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

..can't judge now studio reproduction, or non-live experience...

[@worstworkshop]

The interviewer doesn't understand what's happening here.

[@pegheadproductions]

Neither does Andy...

[@dvanolya]

Is it a guitar or a harp? Taylor just came up with a ridiculously high priced solution in search of a problem. I'll stick to my Larrivee and Martin.

[@markstaggs7342]

Then stick to it no ones forcing you not to

[@MustangDesudiroz]

dat sustain

[@crashintonickdm]

The nicest Taylor’s I’ve played are 90s models

[@OrangutanJ4488]

I think there could be a benefit to this but I also feel like this guy has drank a little too much of his own Kool Aid

[@GitShiddy]

Damn RIP x-bracing I guess...

[@marike1100]

Bought a new acoustic, it sounded great yesterday. When I heard about this v-bracing, I smashed the guitar El Kabong style into a million pieces.

[@nellatrab]

This is just an adaptation of several other builders tried bracing patterns...the V has been done before and not new. Mc Pherson has a similar pattern done years ago, as well as others...it is not new! There as others have said an inert weakness in over-flex as wood changes, the soundhole needs to move!. It has also been done in building construction for many years. A slight version of the demi cutaway, again has been done by many. Taylor makes nice guitars but this is a tiny bit of hype, as others said a spin. BTW I'm guessing the guitar is electro-EQed tweaked here via the mike or pickup. Just one example: www.luth.org/web_extras/mottola_bracing-patterns.html

[@leesamuelson]

McPherson is not like this at all. still x braced based. the link you showed is V bracing but Taylors is a V in opposite direction. Andy has admitted to reading several books on building and history of acoustic guitars. So while in his quest to get what he wants out of an instrument he tried some things and I am sure some loosely based on previous attempts.

[@jeffrey3498]

I'm skeptical after over the years hearing my guitars sound better and better the better I became as a player. The guitars I bought NEVER made me a better sounding player; I made me a better sounding player.

[@roaddog7542]

And the NAMM 2018 BS Award goes to....

[@markedwardgeoghegan8967]

Road DoG!

[@crashintonickdm]

Taylor has really nosedived. Can’t stand all the random bs starting with the arm rest

[@seanc3810]

Complete and utter nonsense, they must think we were all born yesterday.

[@khimapugan5184]

Get a new mic