Machining Some Awkward, Brackety Castings for a Bridgeport Collet Rack

[@Rustinox]

I like your setup for manual milling the radius. It's a good idea.

[@DavidPlass]

Cute ending. Looking forward to the next one!

[@blfstk1]

Good Show Mate...as always. Presso, you do not have to justify your methods to anyone. If you want to cast this out of gelatin and freeze dry it that would be fine. It is fun watching you do your stuff your way. My R8 collets reside in the box my 4 jaw lathe chuck came in. I drilled holes in a piece of .75 plywood and that goes in the box and it sits on the bench for my mill/drill. You just keep doing what you are doing and we'll keep watching and enjoying. Thanx. I'll bet watching the foundry that casts B'port bases would be something.

[@srmofoable]

You are really missing a golden opportunity here. This is the perfect application to model and 3d print your brackets. Dial in the model perfectly and then cast..... or maybe that is what you did. Either way this kind of stuff is what makes the hobby level printers a useful shop tool. I am constantly making drill guides, alignment jigs, etc.

[@Preso58]

I usually do 3D print all my patterns unless they are really simple like a circular disc or a square plate with a boss in the centre. I am now printing in PETG which doesn't suffer from shrinkage like ABS does and it is way strong enough for a single use patterns. All I do after printing is to sand the worst of the texture off and then fill the surface with a spray putty. This usually gives a smooth surface so the layer lines don't get replicated in the finished casting. It also means that I can include the finished casting shape in the CAD model so if it has to be part of an assembly I can model the whole assembly but the patterns can always be "rolled back" by disabling the machined features. Regards, Mark

[@MattysWorkshop]

Gday Mark, I dare say the your brackets will be a much nicer fit then the brought ones, the Cnc machine’s fascinate me, the speed they change direction and maintain accuracy is unbelievable, looking forward to the next video, thanks Preso, cheers Matty

[@Preso58]

Thanks Matty. I was well pleased with my CNC efforts on this build until I saw Arron's (DCT) Syil going through it's paces today. I nearly cried. Regards, Mark

[@joell439]

looks like a lot of fun 👍👍😎👍👍

[@DCT_Aaron_Engineering]

Nice looking brackets Mark. I liked the work around you did to achieve your 3D surface in CNC. I bet you’re missed from the high school workshop 👍

[@Preso58]

I had already mentioned to another KZbinr that I felt pretty chuffed that I had pulled off a 3D milled contour on the little Sieg and then I watched you Syil going through it's paces. I nearly cried! Regards, Mark

[@ramiroalonso3152]

Awesome job so far, can´t wait for the second part. Greetings from Argentina.

[@BuildFixCreate]

Interesting way to cut that angle. I love the 1/4-20 reasoning haha

[@Preso58]

That imperial screw comment came out of me being chastised for cutting some metric threads in the head when I added my DRO scale! The comment had a smiley face but I am guessing some people might take it seriously. Regards, Mark

[@MrZX1206]

Mark I haven't done any casting since I was in high school but a saw a few videos where they used Styrofoam for casting. The carved exactly what they wanting out of foam. Then packed sand around it. Never removed the foam, and poured aluminum into the sand. The foam burnt off and they were left with a casting that didn't need draft. It makes me wonder if someone could 3d print a cavity, fill it with styrofoam balls and glue, then pull the plug out and pack sand around it.

[@Preso58]

I have seen that process before and it seems to work for simple moulds. I am not sure how well it stands up to ramming but the 3D printed patterns I use are pretty robust and now that I am using PETG filament they don't shrink and warp like ABS does and they can be sanded to smooth out the print lines. Regards, Mark

[@paulbull3765]

Great video, I’m not laughing mate, I hope one day to have a tenth of your talent 👍🇦🇺

[@ruperthartop7202]

Lovely job mate.

[@brandonlewis2599]

You could also just use some sugru silicone putty, which would make the rubbery part at least look more intentional. The stuff ends up looking like a pre-formed gasket. Then you could leave the part as cast, or machine with a generous clearance, and no one would be the wiser.

[@lv_woodturner3899]

I thought the Bridgeport surface would be uneven. I do not have a CNC machine so using what I have available, so I would have filed or used my woodworking spindle sander to get the radius, and then I would have found out the flare. LOL I expect the commercial version does not take into account the flare well since this will vary slightly with each machine. I agree using simpler CAD/CAM saves time. Importing the actual STL would have added time for no benefit. Another good video. Dave.

[@Preso58]

Thanks Dave, I can report that the collet rack got fitted today and it went better than I expected. No DRIM's or epoxy required! Regards, Mark

[@testyourdesign233]

In order to simplify the programming effort in Fusion360 i use a series of standard CAM templates. Once you've saved a few standard templates it literally take only a few seconds to program any part. NYC CNC has a number of videos and sample templates you can try. Its worth researching and learning. My Seig X3 CNC conversion can produce mirror finishes very quickly.

[@Preso58]

I must say I have never pushed too hard on my Sieg. I have broken one too many cutters when I got greedy and tried to take deeper cuts. The original Promica kit that I purchased had all the parts made on a Sieg X3 but it did have the high speed precision spindle fitted. Before the Promica website got taken down there were a number of videos showing the Sieg hogging out very large aluminium parts. Maybe I am just being too cautious! Regards, Mark

[@testyourdesign233]

@@Preso58 I mainly use 1/4" and 3/8" solid carbide cutters with .002 ipt as a maximum chip load. I also use 1 x dia depth by 25% dia max WOC for roughing and full depth by .020" max WOC for finishing. I changed my spindle to an 1100 watt 6000rpm BLDC motor which made a huge difference. Spindle power and high RPM is needed to compensate for low machine stiffness. That way you can go faster and keep lower cutter loads.

[@TheKnacklersWorkshop]

Mark, You using Cam Bam software is a great example of using the right tool for the right job... Take care Paul,,

[@Preso58]

I do get a bit frustrated with CamBam sometimes when it refuses to do what seems like obvious processes but for doing one off parts it's great. Regards, Mark

[@sparky7071]

Could you use some adhesive backed sand paper stuck to mill in the bracket mounting locations to sand your brackets to a better fit?

[@Preso58]

Yes, that would work but you would need to use a really coarse grit otherwise it would take forever. I would also be worried that some of the abrasive would work loose and damage the paint on the mill. Regards, Mark

[@vicpatton5286]

Hi Mark Really enjoy all of your videos: strong content and well presented! I think you have exactly the right mindset for time in the shop. An extra few minutes to do a job is meaningless as long as you are enjoying yourself. Really the objective is NOT to see how little time one can spend in the workshop, right? warm regards vic

[@Preso58]

Vic, I agree about time spent in the shop. My aim is to make sure that I walk away at the end of each day knowing something I didn't know before. Regards, Mark

[@cgis123]

G'day Mark, Quick question for you mate.. Could you please tell me what paint and color you used on the Bridgeport? I like it much better than machinery grey... Thanks Matt.

[@Preso58]

Matt, it was called "Machinery Green". However I had it colour matched to a part from the mill. The paint supplier used the Selemix system. I have a photo of the actual paint formula on my phone. If you email me I can send it to you. [e-mail]

[@robertpartsmade5832]

Epic struggle , glad I’m not paying for those brackets !! When you made the pattern a body filler squeeze would establish the dia your after , that pattern would lift with the squeezed faces vertical and draft on the face that has the bolt heads ..... usual thing I guess many ways to skin a cat .... Cheers Robert Partsmade 🇬🇧

[@Preso58]

Robert, I must say I hadn't thought of moulding the pattern to the column casting however there is always shrinkage in the casting to consider. Aluminium shrinks at around 6% so even if you get a perfect fit for the pattern, the casting will not adopt the same fit. I actually did the final fitting of the castings to the column today and one only required a bit of sanding on the bottom edge to get it a pretty close fit. I may be able to avoid any other processes and just powder coat them as they are now. Regards, Mark

[@windyhillfoundry5940]

Well Done Mark👌

[@Preso58]

Thanks Clarke. Give Dollar a pat for me. Regards, Mark

[@TheDeerInn]

I think if you are going to use the two part putty like you did for the lamp attachment then the groves left would give more adhesion surface. It is always better and more fun, no matter how much time it takes, to have the ability to make your own parts. If I can make it, I do.

[@Preso58]

Craig, as it turns out, I fitted both brackets to the mill today and all I had to do was grind away part of the bottom edge of one bracket and they fit close enough that I won't have to use any epoxy. This time I got lucky! Regards, Mark

[@TheDeerInn]

@@Preso58 It's pretty cool working with aluminum as it is so easy to manipulate and doesn't take much effort. Glad it turned out great.

[@garagemonkeysan]

Great video, very interesting story. Superb workmanship. Remember CNC with paper punch tape? Mahalo for sharing! : )

[@Preso58]

I must say I didn't know that paper punch tape was used that way but I am sure it was done. I do however recall programming a computer with cards. One card for one line of code (all in BASIC) and up to fifty cards in a stack just to have the computer carry out a simple task like sorting random numbers into odds and evens! Regards, Mark

[@garagemonkeysan]

@@Preso58 Took a COBOL class at University. It was a hassle carrying those punch cards around campus. Times sure have changed. 🐵

[@swdweeb]

Some day I'm going to understand the thrill of giving a dislike on a video straight out of the chute.

[@somebodyelse6673]

I hope not, that means you've become one of THEM...

[@swdweeb]

@@somebodyelse6673 I certainly hope not.😄 I see it on my channel and on others as well. What could possibly drive someone to dislike this video?

[@osgeld]

is draft angles really a concern on a one off part? chances are your going to poke all the sand out of the box anyway

[@jonathan1427]

Draft is for removing the pattern, not the part, from the flask. You could do an investment cast.

[@Preso58]

Getting the pattern out of the sand mould is always and issue. One of the challenges is designing the pattern so it can actually be removed. Often when you see a cast part it is not immediately obvious how they are made. Some require extremely complex and multi part patterns and some require loose cores to make some features. Even a one off part will need draft on the pattern. Regards, Mark

[@KarlBunker]

A fun and interesting video, as always. Thanks for sharing! BTW, what is it with machinists that they have the best sense of humor on KZbin (This Old Tony, BlondieHacks, Mark ...)?

[@Preso58]

It must be our repressed personalities! Regards, Preso

[@mikenoshvade937]

OK, arm chair expert here! and I have never cast anything in my life. Could you have not kept the curved face and the top face square to each other and put the draft on the side where the screw heads would sit?

[@swdweeb]

As nice as he finishes his patterns, it is likely that would have worked. It would require the part moving in the direction of the drafted surface as it came out the sand but I think you're right. Ok Mark, tell me what I'm missing 😄

[@SeanBZA]

@@swdweeb Likely cast with the face top side on top, as that is the most porous surface in there, so no. You will need a good draft angle anyway, so making it with the one surface that needs to be flat as top is best, just make sure there is enough volume in the casting to find the rest as well. He has to have a top, so make it the piece that is both going to be not visible and also one that will get milled flat anyway.

[@Preso58]

You are correct but I had already decided that I wanted to have a go at machining the curved face anyway so I just put the draft on both faces. I mean, why make it simple when you can double the production time? I like my wife to think that I tackle high risk projects and always prevail! 😁

[@rallymax2]

Epoxy for the win! Glad you’re using 1/4-20. Gotta be honest, you’d have to sacrifice a block of steel to the machining gods if you didn’t. Also something to try another time is handwriting the Gcode using the G2/3 arc command. It would have been three lines. G2..., retract, lower depth and repeat.

[@Preso58]

I guess I should try that. When I first got started with GCode I was completely reliant on the CAM software and I didn't dare touch it or modify it. Later on, I got confident enough to instruct students to edit code to add drilling op's which weren't supported with the models we were using. Having said that though, my brain isn't wired well enough to write too much code from scratch. It's the same when I am working with Arduino. It is just a bit beyond me. I am a very visual person and 3D cad is a breeze for me but numbers horrify me. Sad but true! Regards, Mark

[@rallymax2]

Mark Presling I was trying to make a cylinder and couldn’t get the cam to work so I went back to my pencil and paper drafting mindset wanting to program in a radius and where the center is and low and behold I discovered the G2 command. I figure let the cnc work out all the interpolated points instead of giving it billions of G1 commands. Anyhow something to play with if you get bored one day. Do some MDI input and watch what it does.

[@christophercullen1236]

With that plywood fixture and release agent , body filler you could cast that shape into your castings .

[@Preso58]

I am not sure how well the body filler would stand up to the powder coating temperature of around 200C. The metal filled epoxies do work though. Regards, Mark

[@christophercullen1236]

@@Preso58 Dear Mark it is when you are making the patterns you would have the shape on them. The patterns would be moulded in green sand and shape would be in the castings all that would be required is to dress the castings. The patterns could still be place on a board and main body casted in the drag, cut back to the joint line a then you could produce the shape in the cope

[@WalterEGough]

I use CamBam too! And QCAD at times. Nothing against 3D work - I use Fusion mostly - but sometimes a 2.5D job is just quick and easy with 2D tools.

[@Preso58]

I think I have just gotten comfortable with CamBam although I do like Fusion 360. Back in 2016 I was very fortunate to visit Autodesk in San Francisco. They have an amazing space filled with some very cool artefacts made using their software. We got to use a beta version of Fusion before it got rolled out and it was pretty impressive back then. Up until that point I had been using CATIA but it looked positively old fashioned compared to the Autodesk products. In fact I recall someone saying that CATIA was built on a UNIX platform. Regards, Mark

[@thisnicklldo]

Not sure why you are going to powder coat. Seems to be right in the line of fire of the chips. Powder coat will get knocked off not much slower than paint, but won't be repairable. Especially for the tray itself which will get chipped within a week of putting the tooling in it - though perhaps you aren't intending to powder coat that anyway.

[@Preso58]

It is possible to repair powdercoat and it is very tough and durable which is why I am such a fan boy for the process. The material I am using for the shelf is carbon fibre, around 8mm thick and it is incredibly stiff and tough. The piece I used was filled and painted but I sanded it back to the bare carbon weave today. It looks fantastic but I don't think it has a lot of epoxy in the outer layer. I am going to try powdercoating it in a clear gloss. If that fails I will just put a layer of clear epoxy on top of the weave. Regards, Mark

[@richardbradley961]

HI MARK, I WOULD GRIND A BIT OFF THE COLLEM TO GET THE BRRACKETS TO FIT................ REGARDS RICHARD.

[@Preso58]

Shock, horror! 😬 Don't say that out loud around any serious Bridgeport users! Regards, Mark 😁

[@camillosteuss]

Regarding the draft angles and the horror they present to a machinist in setup and all that machinework implies, you can spend quite some more time and almost no additional effort to avoid all that malarkey... Its a compound method which goes like this- Make a 3d printed model of the thing you want, no nonsense, pure copy just in plastic... Take that plastic model and dip it in latex, dip it in, dip it good, or just get a tube of 2 component silicone and make an adequate bath that you will dunk your model in... Let it sit, let the silicone cure for its intended time, which requires no effort, so you are still at the same effort level, you just took a cup or similar and poured silicone in and put the part in... Once cured, remove the part, now you have a negative of the model in latex or silicone or whatever you can work with... Get some candle wax, if not wax, get cheap large candles and as you would with wax, dunk them in a pot, put them over fire and melt the wax... Fill the elastic negative with wax, let it cure... Extract the wax model which has no angles, no nothing but what you want the part to be... Put it in the box, make a sand mould around it as you would with plastic model and simply burn off/evaporate the wax in a heat treat oven... You will have to have metal box for the mould for it, but well, what can you do, weld one up, its better than wood either way... Once the wax is gone, you are left with a perfect negative for your desired part with no unwanted geometry... After that, when the mould is still hot, pour in the metal, it will net you a superior finish, no risk of cold spots and your part will be a perfect machinable piece after maybe a bit of light sanding if you got some surface unevenness depending on the grit of the sand... It may be an overkill for some projects, but as they say, there is no kill like overkill... Why salt a slug when you can use a flamethrower? If wax is just not worth it for some projects, consider getting a block of styrofoam and hotwire cutting it into desired shape, put it in the cask, make a mould and just burn it out with molten metal, or you can burn it out in a heat treat oven too, leaving you again with a mould with no geometry but that of your now evaporated model... Tho, that might require a large oven, but for that, you can make your own ``kiln`` and just blast fire in it until the job is done, as with wax, since you dont need any precise temp or anything but for the temp to burn out the wax or styro... Also, hot moulds are the best as they dont leach any heat form the poured metal...

[@Preso58]

I am hoping I can get into lost wax casting at some point. I actually made some parts that way when I was in college. We had a centrifugal casting machine and we were making jewellery out of pewter. I have been a fan of the "Veg Oil Guy" for some time and I have watched as he has become more and more proficient at the process. It does allow you to make some intricate parts which are not easily done using greensand moulds. Regards, Mark

[@camillosteuss]

@@Preso58 Most glad to hear that, as i greatly enjoy watching you... I just bought 25kg of furnace mortar as i am about to build my own casting setup, but for iron and steel, maybe some other metals... I have spent over a decade and a half - learning and lusting after machinery and joys of that kind, so now I am thriving with my slowly forming shop and content of amazing people such as yourself, so its a great joy hearing that you have ``expansion`` plans in mind... I would greatly enjoy having some talks with you, and share a few ideas that I drew up over the last few years, so its a bloody shame that you are practically on the other side of the world, as i would love to have you as a guest for a lovely hot or cold beverage of choice... Maybe some cake, or a gourmet lunch... Know that you are warmly invited here if you are ever passing through or going to Croatia for say a vacation... Regarding the ideas to be shared, if you want, I can send you a scan of a plan i drew for a modification for my Emco Fb2 baby mill to make her more rigid, as i know that you have a similar machine, altho yours does differ and the plan would need to be re-engineered to fit your machine, but if you are up for it, i will gladly send it to you... I could even draw up a plan for your machine specifically, with manufacture in mind and margins, as i believe that what you have is what Quinn has(in essence), and a lot of others so it could be a great gift to anyone willing to put in the effort on a small mill or a joke of a task for us with big mills, who just want to stiffen up our baby machines... Sorry for the pocket size bible of a comment... All the best and warmest regards, Marco Camillo

[@scruffy6151]

👍👍

[@Just1GuyMetalworks]

Yup, shipping. That's how they get ya! 🤣 Although if they just charged $120 with free shipping I'd probaby buy it 🤣. Cheers!

[@Preso58]

The products coming out of China that claim to have free shipping have bundled the shipping into the total cost but it is still way cheaper than anything coming from the USA or England. However, I haven't ordered anything from China for a while now. The expected date of delivery is now several months. 😭 Regards, Mark

[@Tule54]

👍👍👍🖖

[@rodfrey]

At risk of becoming the armchair athlete we all despise, could you have milled the top (flat) face square to the curved portion? The top would have been tapered but still plenty strong I'd guess.

[@Preso58]

Rod, yes, that would work but fixturing it would still be complex. Sometimes, the way I do things might seem overly difficult but I like to experiment with techniques which might come in handy later when there may not be an alternative way of doing something. Regards, Mark

[@rodfrey]

@@Preso58 Totally fair - didn't think about the joys and laughter that would come with grabbing onto a curved, tapered leg.

[@robstirling3173]

Why not just pad out the brackets square with a glass filled body filler?

[@Preso58]

Robert, I want to be able to powder coat the finished brackets and some body fillers are not compatible with the heat required to fuse the powder coat. I also wanted to have a go at some 3D milling processes on my little CNC mill and this seemed like the perfect candidate. Regards, Mark

[@FrancisoDoncona]

So lost wax end of problem

[@Preso58]

I would love to try lost wax on some serious jobs. Unfortunately it does require some specialist equipment. When I was at college we did some lost wax casting. I made a piece of jewellery out of pewter from a hand made wax model. We had a centrifugal casting machine which was a seriously scary piece of kit. You had to wind up a massive spiral spring and lock it until the pewter was melted with a propane torch. You also had to estimate the balance of the rotating arm and once it was tripped it got very exciting. Regards, Mark

[@sheph7ceo799]

I was looking forward to this video. I was guessing you would do it like Tom Lipton did it making the baby bullet. (Wilton Baby Bullet 16 Curve Kellering 2, kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4LOZ2uLiL2EjM0). So using the CNC mill was an interesting surprise. Still not all that simple but you did save yourself about a 1,000 hours of hand filing. You could still use a DRIM and save some more work.

[@Preso58]

All will be revealed in the next video. I actually finished most of the build today and it looks great. It is also strong enough to take at least 50kg of tooling, if I had that much! I hadn't watched the video you sent me although I am a big fan of Tom Lipton's work. I have used a similar process on the lathe for making compound curves and as long as you concentrate it works great. If you lose your place though.... 😥 Regards, Mark

[@MrStrangegoo]

I do not understand why you wish to have a CNC machine perform a task you could have acomplished on the Bridgport in less than 1/4 of the time.

[@Preso58]

I know it seems like overkill or redundancy but I just wanted to try doing some 3D tool paths on my little CNC. Mostly it is only ever used for 2D pocketing and profiling or drilling hole patterns. It was really a "what if" exercise. Many years ago we had a Denford CNC router at the school I was working at. We used it to machine balsa wood blanks into model formula one cars. The toolpaths were all 3D profiles cut with a 6mm ball nose router bit and 0.5mm step overs. That was how I was introduced to CNC machining. I had to learn how to do it myself before I could teach the kids. The machine was worth around $25,000 and we didn't own it. So, I was very keen not to break it. Once I retired I no longer had access to the machine so it was nice to go back to that process, even if what I achieved at home looked a little clumsy. Regards, Mark

[@RutherfordRyan1]

Orientated .......please Preso , you didn’t mean eastened ..!...next you’ll be saying Sodder and Aloominum.. I have referred your error to Rolly Sussex.... Lookout.. Love your work. ! Shed envy and machine envy here....Yep textured finish for epoxy bonding ( Right !) and safety police on your wiggler stabilising !

[@Preso58]

Trust me, I draw the line at sodder! Glad you are enjoying the vids. Regards, Preso

[@garydavo07]

you the bridgeport. cmon. just admit it!!

[@CapeCodCNC]

If you could have angled the surface to machine at 45 degrees you would get a better finish and less chatter. The bottom 20% of a ball mill pushes more than cuts due to low surface speed closer to the center of rotation... You might get waterboarded putting a communist bolt in a Bridgeport.... hahaha

[@Preso58]

Are you saying I should buy a fancy five axis mill? I'll tell my wife you said I need one! I do recall reading that ball mills have zero edge velocity at the centre contact point. I guess the efficiency would be way less at the edges close to centre. Regards, Mark

[@CapeCodCNC]

@@Preso58 Absolutely positively tell your wife I said you MUST have a 5 axis machine or the KZbin police will show up. I will even give you the specs that are mandatory for a home shop! Syil X7 made from Epoxy Granite, BT30 HSK E40 30,000rpm spindle with TSC, Syntec 22MA 5 axis controller, 16 + 1 two arm ATC, DDR rotary table, wireless touch probe, 3D tool setter. Now your wife will have all the info she needs! If she needs that on a letterhead let me know! When you place your order tell Xushuo I said hi...That was easy :) hahaha

[@harleypruett]

The machine looks like a frog.