What Was the First Century Church Actually Like?: Dr. Nijay Gupta

Рет қаралды 3,849

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 29

@joemisek 8 ай бұрын

I just finished Nijay's book yesterday. It is phenomenal. And there are probably a bunch of other topics and aspect he could add to this discussion... I'd love to see how he would address how early Christians handled money and resources, the local poor and injured, etc. You can tell there is so much more out there but the topics he did address, he did it so incredibly well.

@margaretgrosskreuz8687 8 ай бұрын

@joemisek Yes. There was equality in serving and one-anotherness. Also 2 Co 8 and 9 talk about the Grace of giving, of praying about what we give. It should not be under compulsion There needs to be equality as it beautifully states in chapter 8 v 9

@abeautifulmoment2714 7 ай бұрын

A great supplement to his book would be "Cultural Christians in the Early Church" by Nadya Williams, which will give some insight to some of your questions. Both are great!!

@jessidarnell1660 8 ай бұрын

I have got to get this book.. Soon as I get done with Paul and gender.. I have binged watched your channel this month since I found you lol… I am a woman in ministry.. Thank you for all your conversations.

@Bible33AD 8 ай бұрын

"And it shall not be taken away from you" - Yeshus the Christos.

@TheOverlapLifewithTimBarber 8 ай бұрын

Wow, what an incredible discussion. In all situations, we have to do the hard work of figuring out what is: • Doing the Scriptural standard -- what can be straightforwardly transported from the ancient 1st Century church context into our modern 21st Century church context? This is definitely reserved for what the New Testament seems to portray as mission critical things - meeting together, having the meal, every member of the body functioning in edification, etc... • Deviating the Scriptural standard -- what are the approaches that are or would be an inappropriately aberrant action or system of beliefs that's disjointed from the Scriptural witness? I think of things like Platonist influence in anthropology and eschatology, and the hierarchical elevation of Bishops as examples of how we went astray. • Developing the Scriptural standard -- as regards the things for which we can't simply "do" the standard, without "deviating" from the standard, how do we "develop" that standard for a different context to live faithfully in modern contexts & categories? This has to do with things like technology, especially. We have to have a very ecumenical attitude, because not everybody is going to parse those things the same way... but I think Nijay's spot on in terms of his emphasis - because what matters is what the Scriptures themselves present as important and pre-eminent. And one-anothering community is titanic in importance to how God wants to express Himself through the Body! Bought the book right afterward, excited to jump in.

@margaretgrosskreuz8687 8 ай бұрын

@TheOverlapLife I do not claim to be a scholar. However I totally agree with the one-anothering and exalting people to high positions. Two Scriptures that I have been made aware of are: Matthew 20:25-28 and Matt 23 actually a large portion of it but especially vv 1-12. I listen to two men, former senior pastors of large churches. They stepped down from their positions. They speak of the abuses and hypocrisy they have experienced firsthand. I love that they have chosen to minister to people who have been hurt by the institutional Church. Thank you for all your insights. ☝🏼❤️

@margaretgrosskreuz8687 8 ай бұрын

Thank you Preston and Nijay. What a great discussion. This is a topic near and dear to my heart. The modern Church is putting people on pedestals, which Jesus never intended for his Ecclesia.

@pikehightower790 8 ай бұрын

Bought the book last night. FANTASTIC already. Thank you.

@rosehammer9482 8 ай бұрын

Reading the book Destroyer of the Gods and Christianity at the Crossroads was insightful for me along with reading the early Church Fathers.

@margaretgrosskreuz8687 8 ай бұрын

Thank you. Will consider checking those out.

@wendylang2360 8 ай бұрын

Anonymity in big churches also means lack of accountability in our faith. In real Christian love, Christians hold each other to account because they care for each other. 💒

@davidvartanian 8 ай бұрын

Small groups have to be formed out of a communal identity of discipleship or else the groups will be shallow, worldly, undisciplined. That’s what drew me to the international church of christ fellowship, and kept me there despite its flaws. We used to have an unhealthy view of discipling relationships, (hierarchical and harsh) but my fellowship in Irvine is learning the paradigm of gentle, invitational, non-performance driven discipleship.

@annlowry9841 8 ай бұрын

What I'm seeing in large churches is the small group leaders not having enough support and training. i think the church staff could spend more time with the small group leaders, disciplining them and then the small groups might go better and more people would come.

@inez7609 8 ай бұрын

Oh, i loved this. I've felt this way for a while but couldnt quite articulate it. I dont think that todays western evangelical church is anything that God had in mind in some respects but as you said theres nothing wrong with adapting with culture but the church is just so disconnected from its true intention - relationships and fostering a deep sense of community. You can build that in the larger church, but it's so much harder. But again, big churches aren't bad per se, and small churches can be toxic as well. I think we all just need to collectively try harder to be more intentional about building relationships with one another. I also think ways in which capitalism and consumnerism have crept in also make me uncomfortable.

@abstainingindianunitednations 5 ай бұрын

Dr. Gupta finds evangelical Christianity sickening. However, the Main Line church drove American wars of colonization, such as the war against the Viets and Iraqis. In fact, Main Line Christianity has morphed into progressive secularism. It has been responsible for the untold deaths of millions of innocents. For non-western Christians, Progressive Secularism is a crusading western religion. Christian Kohlbert is part of the Main Line church. Yet, he is firmly ensconced in its womb, because he too, like Sprinkle, Gupta, and yourself, is a Babylonian

@rscottadams7082 8 ай бұрын

The stress of how out of whack “church” is in our age in the US really shows in this conversation. GREAT points raised, that end up sounding like talking out of both sides of our mouthes.

@bryanh7531 8 ай бұрын

At 1:07 you invoked the phrase “0h my God”…a few moments later your guest commented about a general observations about Christian’s’ use (misuse) of naming God. Ironic?

@melissacarter6238 8 ай бұрын

Maybe as ironic as your misunderstanding of the command not to take up the Lord's name in vain.

@bryanh7531 8 ай бұрын

@@melissacarter6238oh my god, I’m such an idiot. Any resource suggestions that would help absolve me of such ignorance. Or perhaps I should just believe you. (Is this what is understood as a passive aggressive tit for tat?) BTW…thought the interview was mostly helpful.

@melissacarter6238 8 ай бұрын

@@bryanh7531 there is an excellent resource (among many, I’m sure) that delves into the command: Dr Carmen Imes wrote Bearing God’s Name. If I recall, Preston interviewed her when she released Being God’s Image, and they touched on the “name in vain” part at the end of the interview.

@brandonwalton7108 7 ай бұрын

I love the interview very informative but I do think it's a problem when you can't get something out of a sermon because of your somehow superior knowledge! It is the Holy Spirit that gives the understanding of scripture! He wrote it or is that not a Christian truth? I do think that this well educated brother in Christ should really pray about that! While you did not say that verbatim that you do not get something out of a sermon there was an undertone of "I'm superior when it come to scripture preach to them not me" somewhat disheartening to hear to say the least! as if that's some great place to be in Christ! God bless you for the work you are doing though can't wait to interact with your book! I pray you keep growing in the spiritual disciplines as you grow in knowledge as well!

@Matt-Pursley 8 ай бұрын

This is a classic case of confusing the accidents for the substance. The first Christians emphasized the Eucharist, not the table it sat on. The Eucharist was about union with the resurrected Christ, not a shared meal. They met in multiple places, not just homes, what was important was following a strict liturgy. Their meetings were led by a central and hierarchical leadership of bishops, elders, and deacons. The first church wasn't an intellectualism book club with dinner. It was a sacramental, hierarchical, and confessional religion from the beginning. (c.f. Clement, Ignatius, Irenaeus, etc.) The center is the substance. The circumstances and accidents discussed here are not really even equivalent or even that close to the center. There is a reason the first Christians abandoned circumstances of poverty and persecution and built Hagia Sophia in record time.

@christinasteiger388 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for this comment. I immediately as a Catholic convert who has done her fair share of patristic reading, wondered about this when reading summaries of his book...