Pretty Boys And The Ethics of "Baiting" in Anime

[@TheAnimeTea]

If you want me to review each of Hiroko Utsumi's series separately leave one or all of the following emojis: 🌊 or 🍌🐟 or 🛹 Check Out Ochanime for Anime Inspired Tea! www.ochanime.com/

[@Alexa-cr1vy]

🌊🌊🌊

[@naja782]

🛹🛹🛹

[@nirgunawish]

24:20 i see what you barely cropped out there....

[@Ocean-Waters]

Would be great to see a review of 🌊! It's a show I hold very dear, as I've been in the fandom for basically 7 years now and still going. There is barely any meta content when it comes to this show especially now, so to see someone do a review/analysis of it would be very refreshing

[@narianasands2127]

🌊🍌🛹

[@Kurooganeko]

I really wish there were more good anime with adult protagonists. I still love teen characters and will continue to watch it, but MY GOSH it's harder to relate to them sometimes. And most of the anime with adult protagonists are kinda baaaaaad 😭😭😭

[@sleepysartorialist]

Yeah the same issue with manga actually. Esp as a lesbian. It's hard to find content that feels targeted at me at my age of nearly 40 😅

[@Kurooganeko]

@@sleepysartorialist I can only imagine :/

[@htsunmiku]

Honestly for me it's not even about "relating", I can relate to any character regardless of age. it's just...the older I get (I'm 21) the more weirded out by the fact that it's other /adults/ writing teens/kids in such a way. I feel the same about western shows like euphoria too. Stories that clearly should just have characters at least college aged. They say it's because more people can relate to HS. But I think it's because most of the target demographic prefer teen characters, school uniforms and such. Mind you I'm not saying teen and younger characters can't be in darker/mature stories but a lot of it just... doesn't feel "necessary" or appropriate. (Like...the age gap love intrest in shugo chara. A show aimed at young girls)

[@Kurooganeko]

@@htsunmiku (I'm sorry for how long my answer is. I'm an language major. Sometimes I just have to go longer. Please don't hate me aaaaaaaaa) I'll say that up to a certain degree I agree pretty much with everything you said, but I also know it's important to bear in mind that I don't really have access to things you didn't say. Meaning that I don't really know what scenes and piece of media specifically you have in mind and maybe it wouldn't be trully productive t ogo through all of them. So I guess we have to work with more general understandings. I also think that Euphoria has a lot of important things being said. Yes, even though inapropariate at times. I myself avoided watching it until I first saw that scene of the blonde gill having a eotional break down in front of the mirror (relatable af). But I also think it's important to bring the discussions of innapropriate so the newer generation can get in touch with those discussions. One key point of Euphoria for example that I see is how the world mold teen behavior and it begs us to aknowledge that. The good and the bad. I'm 25 btw. Thought it was unfair of me to not say that since you provided your frame in the discussion. From what I've gathered over life the teen years are very formative to a person. I think it will always hold an important place in peoples minds and I think that aspect has been with since forever. It brings nostalgia to the older audience and self reflection and analysing to both. I've rewatched the original Gossip Girl soooo many times and it always brings somthing different. I used to hate season 3 onwards, but then I got to that phase of life and now i don't love the earlier seasons as much. One key point I've found about media is the necessity of having your characters to grow, to age. Because otherwise it's like the audience's mind freezes a little bit. Gives the impression that you can be a teen forever. Not the case at all, right? And anime usually don't age. We don't really have the author show up with a illustration and be like "Here! This is them now" aka adults. As for anime that problem can be much deeper because of culture related issues. Japan has a tone of problems and media born in that context will show its background. I don't think its good and haaaate the sexualization, but I also know it won't end out of the blue. I hope it would honestly. But my main problem is how stagnant it often times is. The not growing. And I think that's because teens have more time to dedicate to media. Adults have more responsibilities hanging over our heads and that prevents from consuming more. Since theen is more lucrative market the adutls are forced to stay with teen media. But I think we can change that

[@htsunmiku]

@@Kurooganekoyeah I agree with you. I haven't seen euphoria, so everything I know is through osmosis. Again, I really don't think there's a problem with have young characters in darker or mature media, exploring the themes of adolescence . (I like the show "sex education" for example). But when it comes to certain aspects (e.g. sex scenes that show absolutely everything. Excessive nudity). It has me questioning the writer/creator and their motives .. are they trying to actually tell the story of young people, or even their own experience...or is it just objectification. Especially after hearing about Sam Levinson's most recent work ("The idol"). I mean, euphoria is a "teen" show that said teens themselves "legally" cannot watch. And older generations don't necessarily need to be educated on how messed up being a young adult can be. Though I do understand that the big "pro" of having a HS setting is that characters are "forced" into interacting. Making unlikely character pair ups easier to write for them.

[@panikiczcock2891]

Banana Fish is my fav anime I've seen so far. SK8 was fun. I need to watch more stuff from her. It's nice to watch something that I know was made for ppl like me with mind.

[@SilverTheLover]

also thank you for telling me about my favorite anime director who i didn’t know was my favorite

[@young.girl.a8748]

Utsumi is one of my fave directors! This video has some really cool quotes from her that I haven't seen before. I didn't bother to watch free but I was a massive fan of Sk8 when it was airing. Sk8 the infinity has inspired me so much for my own works with her character driven plots! I have always loved shows that focus on character development which is why I love her works!

[@trainer_ids]

Hello! I'm so happy you did this video! Thank you! I'm a big fan of her and this video means a lot.

[@kali18]

No wonder every time I watched Free, the cute anime K-ON always hit me in the face lol. I love both but I never noticed they were made by the same director.

[@hollywooddarling]

I'm just going to say that I'm tired about discourse about people feeling like they are being 'queerbaited' by media such as Free!, Sk8, Banana Fish etc. that are so overtly homoerotic to the point that is not subtext anymore (arguably Free! is the most subtle and most associated with subtext, but Sk8 and Banana Fish are so overtly homoerotic that it's really unfair to call it bait). I think people need to have stronger media literacy skills and expand their ideas on what is 'canon' and stop accusing anime creators of queerbaiting. It's an extremely bad faith reading of these works. I see that Hibike! Euphonium was also used at the end as an example of cute girls doing cute things and declaring their love for each other and I also don't see that as being bait. Class S Literature was the precursor to Yuri, which is an entire genre focusing on stories of girls developing strong feelings for each other that is rooted in reality. Akemi Yoshida, who wrote Banana Fish, wrote Class S stories like The Cherry Orchard so I think she has always been interested in queer stories and gender. Hibike! can be seen as a natural extension of that, along with its EXTREMELY queer spinoff Liz & the Blue Bird, which is also a Kyoto Animation production directed by the equally formidable Naoko Yamada. Liz is yet another anime story which I've seen being accused of being queerbait. I do not understand why a series must be classified as yuri or bl in order for it to be queer, and why characters need to be kissing and shouting their undying love from the rooftops in order for it to be seen to be romantic or 'together'. Kyoto Animation seems to be most associated with this pretty people having intense relationships/friendships with each other that can be read as queer/queerplatonic etc and I love them for that, but I also know many people write the studio off because of this, which is their loss. Additionally, if we are going to debate on the ethics of why these creators cannot make these characters "canonically together" (what does this even mean? people need to unlearn their ideas of romance and relationships) is because often the money that funds the creation of these anime series are not comfortable with it, NOT the creators. This is very evident with the recent Gundam series The Witch From Mercury which features not just the first female protagonist for a Gundam series, but two female leads in a romantic relationship that (SPOILERS) are married at the end of the series--- they never SAY these words, but the show shows it through their matching rings, dialogue implying 'a sister-in-law', the way they are leaning on each other, and in the end series promotional art where they are holding hands with their rings. The VAs also very much endorse their relationship, and the artists, but when the VA said something in an interview that overtly points out that the two characters are married and together, Bandai came out to retract her words. I don't want this to also go into how Japan is a homophobic/conservative society as well, because most societies around the world are conservative and not queer-friendly. So you see how more often than not, it is the corporate powers that enforce censorship and conservative values. Therefore, to get ahead and do what they want, write the beautiful boys and girls falling in love with each other, creators will leave things open/subtle/ambiguous and/or creatively work their way around it. Also, once again I'm extremely tired of fujoshis/people who enjoy BL/BL writers as being straight who write for a straight female audience because that couldn't be further from the truth in my experience.

[@sleepysartorialist]

Free! is one of my all time faves. I am a huge fan of sports anime and the mo-cap inspo is very clearly present. Banana Fish was always a difficult series for me growing up. The gay subtext was overt enough for my homophobic parents to ban me from reading it. I've continued to avoid it even as an Out adult.

[@lordtette]

They banned you from reading because of hints of gay, but not the other themes in the manga?

[@lumityviktuuristanartist4100]

Girl , read it , it really is good or watch the anime , they aren't really dating there

[@lumityviktuuristanartist4100]

​@lordtette " we can excuse drugs , violence , and trauma but we draw a line at gays" no bfr ?!? Like you give everything a pass but not gay people, it doesn't even focus much on it 😭

[@Mathue360]

My first thought of baiting was Death Note! Light and L had some tension man

[@keytti3374]

I was in high school when free!! came out and yes I was baited 😂 I never finished watching it but im still obsessed with the animation

[@lizzeh]

As someone who's seen Free and Banana Fish I now feel obligated to watch Sk8, which I have been hearing a lot about but avoiding (for whatever reason). I guess I should watch it if I have liked this director's other anime. Because Free and Banana Fish were from different studios I had never made the connection! As a self proclaimed fujoshi I can wait to start following her work closer. Thanks so much for shining a spotlight on Utsumi's works.

[@terbbert]

S8 is a hella fun time and well-animated! It's not very similar to banana fish, it's a lot less serious, and a lot more spectacle.

[@lumityviktuuristanartist4100]

​​@@terbbert comparing banana fish to sk8 the infinty is like comparing a cool shaped lollipop with a knife that got blood on it Banana fish is basically every crime you could think of , it's depressing while sk8 is like you said a fun time

[@vveva]

no nipple boys 😂

[@irinbarbhuiya8077]

What💔

[@Serocco]

I respect Free just for the fact that it exposed so many hypocrites in the anime community. Straight dudes got super angry that KyoAni made a show anout sexy boys. Straight women who disliked fanservice suddenly had either nothing to say about Free or were openly thirsting for the swimmer boys. Even the people who were consistent and disliked the fanservice either made excuses for Free ("It's deeper than that!") when they never would for something like Highschool of the Dead. Or they come off as prudes and puriteens who talk like the fucking Ayatollah of Iran when it comes to nudity and sex.

[@urdadsonic1036]

its not hypocritical coz straight dudes can still be seen as sexy and humanised whereas women being sexualised is just objectification coz people already do not see women as people and yall are seen as 2nd to men so thats why its bad

[@eddydeniro4110]

Im a straight man and was glad Free existed. I think women should be allowed to thirst over sexy men the way men do over women.

[@BoobaMilkTea]

Bucchigiri looks like it could be a hit

[@love94ever]

and thanx for the 🛹 anime rec!! had no idea she worked on that too! WILL be watching it !

[@kev95]

"Baiting" these days is just shippers being angry beacuse their headcannons were not made offical.

[@lumityviktuuristanartist4100]

Sometimes it's the case , shippers can get very annoying and just want their pairs of obviously just close buddies canon but sometimes anime really be baiting , like sometimes the "friends" is just too close , too intimate to be called a friendship but of course , not always

[@wolfferoni]

I had no idea that the same person directed Free!, Banana Fish, and Sk8, much less that they're a woman. I watched Free when I was in high school and really enjoyed it. I loved swimming and the relationships between the characters. Felt like I could relate a lot, (esp Haru) since I was the same age as them. I don't know if anyone would believe me if I said I didn't watch it for the fanservice but muscled guys aren't really my thing. I'm a little bit embarrassed to say I liked the show haha. I watched Banana Fish only a few years ago when I was in an anime slump and it's one my favourites now. Thanks for spotlighting Hiroko Utsumi, I will definitely be keeping an eye on her work. I'm tempted to watch Sk8 even though I have no interest in skateboarding

[@kira3051]

I’ve finally found a black femme anime commentator on youtube 😭

[@viviansanimerose]

Watching your videos talking about women who do like men is always interesting as a lesbian because it is so unrelatable but so deep. I've never watched any of these shows BECAUSE I knew they had attraction-to-men as one of the appeals. But I've only heard incredible things about each of these from the women in my life and I can see why, given your analysis of Utsumi. Also, I audibly screamed "ohmygod, that's me!" on your video when I showed up in the "Nuance of Baiting" section. My lesbian self has learned a thing or two about queer baiting in my lifetime.

[@2000seoulsonyosound]

I am a lesbian and I very much enjoyed Banana Fish and SK8, i would highly recommend it.

[@nyapan7620]

I've liked all of her works so far and I'm looking forward to Bucchigiri! As a Yu-Gi-Oh! fan I can also say that it's not surprising that she was inspired by it and I'm not just talking about Takahiro Kagami's style (even if I love it too). Of course the dub cuts all of it but there is a lot of gay subtext in all the shows, even the one currently coming out with tender moments and even love confessions (you can interpret them platonically if you want). The franchise isn't focused on romance at all though so it doesn't confirm couples or anything, even with the straight ones. Even then, it definitely has a fujoshi appeal too just like the Utsumi shows. I also 100% think that Reki from SK8 was inspired by Yuuma from Yu-Gi-Oh! Zexal because they are similar characters and even share the same voice actor in the Japanese version.

[@TheAnimeTea]

Thanks for the great insight! I definitely want to look deeper into this now

[@nyapan7620]

@@TheAnimeTea I'm happy my comment was useful! Nowadays Yu-Gi-Oh! is a niche series in terms of the anime, especially when talking about the Japanese versions so not a lot of people know about it. It doesn't help that the copyright owners are very harsh towards video creators who talk about the anime and not all of the series are legally available subbed.

[@allyli1718]

so real. puzzleshipping goes hard!!

[@marimecham]

No wonder! I watched sk8 and couldn't stop thinking how 'yugioh'-esque, particularly post 5ds, it felt (bright, fun, but when shit hits the fan, it gets comparably dark). I also noticed that Reki and Yuma shared the same jp VA. Fun to note that Reki's english VA voiced another ygo character from arc v, shun, so the ygo-isms continue :)

[@love94ever]

sooo happy to see someone talking bout free! now! i’ve been following the show since it came out in 2013 im still amazed it’s been 10 years. i remember when the movies were being released and we’d have to search all over tumblr for someone with the raw rip and wait for someone to translate for the rest of us :’) such a fun time even amongst the chaos . i also went to see take your marks! in theaters when it came to the states for a lil bit. love free to this day!!

[@chamn5742]

Thank you as always for your work, it was very interesting, i never connected all those works to this director !! I was on tumblr at the time the very first PV was released and it was insane, there were so many urban legends around it xD I feel that at the time it aired it delivered in terms of tension, while being kinda disapointing in terms of queerbaiting, but also closer than most promising works before ? I feel that a lot of people complained (and still complain) about anime being queerbaity but western works often don’t really deliver, as if lgbtq+ content was its own genre :/ I feel that it’s also the « yearning » that makes the bait compelling and makes you want to watch more content, with hopes that in the next season or the next work, something more appears so it’s also a good marketing tactic to « not deliver ». I’m not as activistic as many but as a queer person, I’m still happy to see storylines where it may be implied that a character as several readings, it’s better to me than no representation at all, especially when the people on production kinda suggest while they can’t make anything official. Anyway, Free was pretty unhinged for its time and I love it for that, and i’m glad I got on the high wave of its airing time, it was truly a cultural reset and it compeled me to put more anatomy details in my own work, for the better xD 🌊🍌🐠🐟🛹 and even ⛸️ because I just love your content so much, I want your take on everything ❤ Love from France,

[@katarinaclaes96]

Amazing video i really enjoyed it. My favorite tea to drink is green tea. 😁🍵 🌊

[@voidz10101]

As a bi guy I'd love to just have a canon gay anime or gay couple that 1. isnt weird af 2. isnt pedo stuff or 3.isnt made EXCLUSIVELY for women key word exclusively

[@Chloe4656.]

Exactly it annoys me so much like can we just a gay couple that super wholesome and not just to be sexualized 24/7.

[@voidz10101]

​@@Chloe4656. fr! or if you wanna make a couple that's expressive in their sexual feelings have some taste and give them a character BESIDES being all about sex ya know.

[@xXMiakodaXx]

I'm a queer 30-something fujoshi. I'm never free from being queer baited and I hate it, I hate never seeing the outcome and the further build of character relationships. But at least as fans we're able to come together and create art and stories to help fulfill the need.

[@bradleygallella498]

Not only do I feel like it's queer baiting, I also feel like its contributing to the fetishization of queer people. I do feel as if anybody, regardless of gender representation or sexuality can enjoy queer stories, including queer romance, even the ones that get steamy, however there is a difference between that and creating a story surrounding, or stories with qualities of queer relationships and sexualization specifically meant to attract cishet people. They are often (not always) even written from the lens of straight women, thus it is not a representation of queer relationships and sexuality, but an outside view of them from the perspective of someone who finds gratification, sexual or otherwise, in those identities that they do not take part in. In that sense this representation of queer identities does not exist for the sake of the fact that they do exist and existing for all, but they are FOR straight people. These kind of ideas objectify queer people and also perpetuate harmful stereotypes, or even harmful expectations for queer people, for example the stereotype that queer people are overly sexual, the expectation that the only way that queer relationships are acceptable is if they appeal to straight people, or even just generally unrealistic expectations for queer people. If you are a straight woman, and you like boys love, this Isn't meant to ridicule you, but to ask you to consume media more responsibly by consuming media with more realistic representations of queer relationships and that are not intended to specifically appeal to the straight gaze.

[@ranchintime2207]

Yup I 100% agree as a gay man. I've been bugged by women irl and online about being gay, like being bombarded with inappropriate questions. When they find out I'm not what they picture a gay guy to be like based on their limited experience being these works of fujobait, I get harassed for it. Getting called a softboy or infantilized due to this stuff makes me angry and sick. It's insulting. (Like especially since I'm a tradesman). And when people who aren't gay men stand up for the validity of the content, it's frustrating and unfair. It's insulting to our intelligence to not call it like it is: harmful.

[@davidarvingumazon5024]

Actually, anyone can objectify anyone, it's literally Worldwide. Don't expect anything.

[@davidarvingumazon5024]

It's ridiculous about ppl complaining fictional stories not being realistic, overrated opinion, I'm sick and tired hearing these from people.

[@bradleygallella498]

@@davidarvingumazon5024 I’m tired of people saying this. It’s not that they’re not realistic. It’s that they are specifically created for straight people, which often creates harmful expectations for queer people. It’s like you didn’t even read my comment. You’re making up an argument that’s not being made.

[@davidarvingumazon5024]

@@bradleygallella498 This whole thing is about the Fiction. Representation requires realistic. That's correlation between our comments. Also, you're neglecting their health for not telling people to stop using Internet since it's harmful.

[@nerwen_png1830]

I've been waiting for someone to make this kind of analysis on this topic thank you!!

[@TawnyGryn]

The Kyoto art style is so cute for both, but the girls... UwU

[@notyourmumsfavorite]

I didn't know one person worked on three of my fave anime! Free!, Love Chuunibyo, and other delusions, and banana Fish, as well as K-on!!!?? That's so crazy

[@charlieedwards4331]

Free was a gay awakening!

[@Alexa-cr1vy]

I now have a whole new list of anime to watch. Thanks for explaining fujoshi!

[@hobbyist_bharatsuthar430]

i love your channel , all videos ,thanks for sharing 😘

[@ashleycreps9282]

You say that people use Kyoani's older but still popular characters to "hide their identities." I just want to ask what you are implying with that. What I'm hearing is that you think there's something wrong with being anonymous online, is that correct? Edit: I've finished the video, and I do like the information that you have presented about her career and impact. I'm glad that you didn't shit on fujoshi when talking about the flaws of "fujobait" because people don't realize that many of them are also queer. I just hate seeing anime fans taking potshots at each other.

[@_.Max.i.mus._]

oh my god, thank you for noting that. so many "fujoshis" are queer! its so ironic, because anti Fujo rhetoric is so terf-y (and misogynistic). like wow, the irony. these people think they're doing smth for gay men, by literally being queer phobic to potential future trans mascs and others. And what about women who like bl anyway? as long as they respect gay men and the queer community and are mature people it shouldn't bother anybody.

[@Lizzyxboo]

"Sir, why do you have to eat a sandwich like that ?!"😂😂😂

[@orestria]

oh I've been hoping to find an anime channel like this~

[@SilverTheLover]

appeal to the fujoshis and you will be rewarded 💲💲💲

[@AnimeMangaMom365]

There is a lot to think about. I appreciate ships not being cannon, it leaves room for the viewer to insert themselves in the anime without disrupting the story.

[@yenahbrown4675]

I would agree with that but that’s just make the baiting more annoying. There’s animes that does boys friendships without them being gay towards eachother (like natsu and gray from FT) and I don’t like that they keep making a boy pair obvious gay for eachother but call it friends. A gay couple in a anime isn’t gonna change the story unless the story is revolve around romance.

[@allyli1718]

Top tiered goated video, thank you for covering her and confirming my belief in the BL quality of yugioh

[@Slm99]

Not going to lie Atem was hot so I see the inspiration. On a more serious note, I do enjoy her work and I like what she brings.

[@Mixedemotions-aaaah8766]

I kinda wanna watch this cuz I’m on a swim team and I want to see how accurate it is but also a lesbian is probably not the demographic it’s going for

[@rajvirmalhans2073]

And now she’s directing and is the original creator for Bucchigiri which might have some of the same baiting

[@zainmudassir2964]

Nice

[@hika8538]

Not by this director but because she paved the way for that in sports anime, I'm never getting over the queerbaiting in Yuri on Ice...

[@ohhhjeeze]

Is it queerbaiting still if they end up together after all? I mean, the kiss was hidden & that sucks, but didn't Victor & Yuri end up together & married?? Or am I all wrong?

[@hika8538]

@@ohhhjeeze It was how the proposal scene was handled that really undid the whole progress of their relationship for me... Although James Somerton has a great video on Yuri on Ice and how it isn't really queerbaiting but actually nuanced titled "The Aesthetic of Gay Nuance", I recommend it

[@ohhhjeeze]

@@hika8538 I appreciate the suggestion, I'm finally gonna have some time to spare & check it out! Thank you!!

[@lordtette]

It would've been cute if the relationship wasn't a unbalanced powder dynamic of coach(teacher) and student)

[@lumityviktuuristanartist4100]

​@lordtette I mean both of them are legal adults , yuuri is 24 and viktor is 28 It would be questionable if yuuri was 18 , just turned into an adult but it's really okay since both are very close in age Plus victor is a student-teacher in a way so I don't think there is much power dynamic

[@VolkColopatrion]

It's fiction. I don't know how people like you call themselves critics but don't get pratik. There was another video of yours that did nothing but complain about tropes. You said you were going to critique them but all you said was that you didn't understand them and that they needed to go. You didn't give a reason why. That isn't critique that's moral outrage. You're free to feel that way but that isn't a critique that's a screed that's complaining about something you don't like and that shouldn't be enjoyed by anybody