Prigozhin 'forced to launch mutiny early' | Ukraine The Latest| Podcast

Day 489.
Today, we bring you the latest updates from the front line, including a dispatch from our Foreign Correspondent Colin Freeman on the ground in Kramatorsk following yesterday’s deadly strike. We also discuss the future of Yevgeny Prigozhin and Vladimir Putin after the leader of the Wagner group arrives in Belarus.
Contributors:
David Knowles (Host). @djknowles22 on Twitter.
Francis Dearnley (Assistant Comment Editor). @FrancisDearnley on Twitter.
Dominic Nicholls (Associate Editor, Defence). @DomNicholls on Twitter.
With thanks to Colin Freeman (Foreign Correspondent). @colinfreeman99 on Twitter.
Subscribe to The Telegraph: telegraph.co.uk/ukrainethelatest
Email: [e-mail]

[@dearmas9068]

"Record a speech, and run away." Vs. "I dont need a ride. I need ammunition."

[@donaldjmccann]

I am probably too late to submit a question, but when will NATO say they want Ukraine to win, rather than saying they will support them for as long as it takes?

[@EuropeanMind2024]

Good question 😢.

[@samsungtap4183]

It's not about winning it's about haveing a nice long war...ie Afganistan..or my country Vietnam. We shot down over 5.000 American helicopters so the obvious question is who made money making helicopters. Even the most stupid of people can understand that !

[@dro8031]

Just like the US I'm also supporting Ukraine for as long as it takes 😂

[@bruce8209]

@@dro8031 they don't want them to win (imo) because they sent to little material to win and just enough not to die... it 's a perfect place to develop and test your systems and show them to the world. It's all business... sad humanity ...

[@osric1730]

@@bruce8209 Sounds really credible. Having not had any warfare for a generation and definitely no invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, the West are desperate to test all of the second tier equipment that's been in service for decades, I'm sure they're extremely interested in how all this soon to be replaced equipment will stand up to testing. We can therefore also expect F22 Raptors and F35s and the full panoply of America's finest and latest equipment to be delivered imminently, right?

[@SoundtrackAudioCom]

Ukraine bombs a supply bridge and russian ammo dumps ... while Russia bombs a pizza restaurant ... and Putin wonders why he's losing the war so spectacularly!

[@Fu-orksGive.PEACE.achance.]

NATO give Ukraine all the fighter planes they need NOW🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦Slava Ukraine .

[@glenwoofit]

An interesting discussion about Putin. I enjoyed the back and forth with people's opinions.

[@user-ge1nn7ku4x]

Francis totally smashed it on this episode. Fantastic analysis Francis. Always well reasoned and eloquently put..

[@reggienoble3195]

Superb back and forth here on Political History of Dictators...Show always impresses. Top notch crew on this podcast!

[@tyllerboomgaarden7344]

Posting for the algorithm, staying for the podcast.

[@sparkcommunications2499]

Francis totally smashed it on this episode

[@piushalg8175]

@@tommypommy1439 Nobody would argue that there might be a higher risk. This has clearly taken into account as the discussion has shown. On the other hand the risk adverse strategy towards Putin after 2014 (I characterize the policy this way) had catastrophic consequences for Ukraine and severe consequences for the West as well. Taking no risks is just not an sensible way to handle geopolitics..

[@sd_pjwal]

"That's true in personal relationships as well as political ones." Francis, that is beautiful.

[@Chainsforfreedommusic]

Slava Ucraini! It's time to survive, a song made with all our love from basque country to motivate Ucranian people, we propose to watch and listen.

[@goatmealcookies7421]

Putin and russia should be retroactively held accountable for Wagner past crimes.

[@tubthump]

And past crimes by USA/UK/NATO should remain unpunished. Have I got that about right?

[@murrayjames3430]

Thinking Ana and Yulia 🙏

[@erfquake1]

Well said, Francis.

[@andrewpaulhart]

Generally I’m not a reader/fan of the Telegraph, but this podcast is fabulous. Well done and many thanks.

[@davidelliott5843]

I’ve subscribed to Telegraph for some years. I would like to see more in depth coverage of Coof origins and why we didn’t go with the Swedish option but otherwise I’ve not been disappointed.

[@ronniehill8213]

The analysis was absolutely riveting....

[@wesley135]

💙Slava ukraini 💛🇺🇦🇺🇸

[@maplecote]

Rando casualty, "say their name", shoutout. Thanks, armoured

[@jtl680]

Fantastic analysis Francis. Always well reasoned and eloquently put.

[@charlesmackey8179]

Why can't the US acknowledge that Ukraine must win and support it accordingly? I'm disgusted with our political leaders!

[@thomasfarmer8686]

I was like let's give them strategic nuclear bombs a year ago. Now I see they might get the glsdb by November lol. So yea I'm very disappointed too. Especially now that putler is so weak.

[@mike4480]

….the very least..Approve the F18 Hornets, ( going to be scrapped )from Australia for 🇺🇦 , ATACAMS and whatever missiles and ammunition they need to win …Slava Ukraine..Never mind the pro 🇷🇺 trolls…💙💛💙

[@brittadueandersen2519]

And the Americans in general think that they are the ones who are in the front and the ones who give it all to Ukraine, and that we in Europe are rearguards who contribute little.

[@APW554]

Why not the free world ? Something we are not being told a missing part of the jigsaw ,common sense says squash Russia like a grape, the UN has voted the ICC has sent arrest warrants .What is the free world waiting for? What are we gaining by waiting ?? I cannot see any benefits …

[@TzunSu]

@@thomasfarmer8686 GLDSBs are a bit of an outlier though, considering they didn't exist at the start of the war. Development takes time.

[@jofielding4547]

Thanks for share your experience in the bombing

[@christianbliss8944]

The reporter's anger at this repeatedly disgusting behaviour is entirely justified.

[@tubthump]

He only gets angry about Russian military activity. He isn't in the least bit concerned about continued Ukrainian artillery strikes on shopping areas in the city of Donetsk where there are no military targets at all.

[@daejavue69]

What we are hearing is the result of modern missile attack on any urban population that's been happening since their invention . The ability to take these missiles down via SAM,s are still way behind a complete AA defence in Ukraine, are still way behind the missile tech in Ukraine who needs alot more systems to take them down & Nato needs to increase the AA anti missile systems production . Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦

[@blinn40x]

excellent work, reporting, and perspective. appreciate all the time it takes to produce such content! Slava Ukraini

[@mutleyeng]

I think i would argue Putins competence. He hasnt ever really out manoeuvred the west. The west was just apathetic and more concerned with economics prior to 2022

[@davidelliott5843]

We have allowed our politics to swing ever leftwards. Until recently this side was supportive of (and often supported by) Russian influence. They have ridiculed indigenous nuclear power yet been happy to buy Russian gas.

[@frankfischer1281]

Aside from Mr. Putins amorality, he’s also competent enough to retain power for years. This leads me to believe that Mr. Putin has a highly developed personal survival sense, which would make him pull out of Ukraine when the realization hits him that he’s not going to win in Ukraine. An unknown quantity of a new man in charge in Russia would, perhaps, be more difficult to deal with.

[@peabase]

There's still a small chance that Putin bombastically decides to pull out all the stops to save Russia from a crippling civil war (read: ensure his continued monopoly on power). The price will be a full withdrawal from Ukraine. He may believe that will save him and his political career.

[@osric1730]

Except that admitting defeat in Ukraine ensures he won't survive, at the very least politically.

[@botany500kojak]

Putin and Zelensky take orders from Oligarchs. When they decide this is over, it is over.

[@firstlast1217]

Good channel

[@sassas6021]

So much for the "stability" argument, strength is the last propaganda point available.

[@analogman1496]

Ukraine is also blasting Russki rear area ammo depots and supply centers. Cripple them with interrupted and failed logistics supply systems which have always been corrupt besides and they won't have enough beans or bullets to stay in Crimea and/or southeast Ukraine. Slava Ucraini from the USA.

[@govinda102000]

Not significant with defence lines and the many Russians backed by artillery.

[@Allen-fe1nq]

The latter part of this episode is extremely informative and thought-provoking. Well done, and let go get Putler!

[@Mynsinger]

This is a great pod cast with great journalistic viewpoints.

[@govinda102000]

Truth. Great extended listening.

[@ArchesBro]

great guest countering the argument that the restaurant was being used by the Ukrainian military. Every business is being used by the military during wartime. Its like arguing coffee shops are legitimate targets

[@davidelliott5843]

Donbas has huge reserves of gas and oil which Putin saw as competition to be kept down. It will be needed by Europe when this war is over. Especially as the Russian lines will have been closed by then.

[@Allen-fe1nq]

That "inflammatory" pun is golden! 🤣🤣🤣

[@mcnultyssobercompanion6372]

God bless the brave people of Ukraine. It's shameful how certain of my fellow Americans apparently are fine abandoning them to tyranny. I hope the Russians go home soon.

[@davidb6576]

Zelenskyy has been the man of the hour (day, month year) for Ukraine. Incredible that he should find such strength when it was truly needed. And it fills me with pride that my country is supporting him.

[@peterellway7608]

To address the last point made by Francis, who was quoting the views of Prof Snyder, if Putin is indeed not going to be pushed into a corner by defeat in Ukraine (with the resulting risk that he would resort to nuclear weapons) then why oh why does Nato not expedite Ukraine's victory by at least some direct action against Russian forces in Ukraine, for instance with air strikes?

[@botany500kojak]

Putin answers to the Oligarchs, as does Zelensky. Russia were offered the Donbass in 2014 and refused it as the Oligarchs did not see it as beneficial. This ends when they decide. They are making a killing off of this right now (billions coming in from the west and 'some' sanctions).

[@kenmillionx]

So great to watch 😊😊😊😊

[@TinaHenderson-cl9mb]

It's a podcast???

[@jamessmithers4456]

Birds are gone, bows and arrows are hidden, cunning rabbits are dead, lackeys are cooking

[@SingWithUkraine]

Sad Putin's circus. Stay strong, Ukraine!

[@soleprobe]

I don't believe it was a coup or mutiny attempt... coups and mutinies are done suddenly and by surprise... not long rolls to the capital then turning back part way. This was a labor dispute. Prigozhin was a gov contractor who took time off the job to take his employees and tools to the capital to voice their grievances. Bad idea when the employees are soldiers and the tools are weapons of war.

[@tubthump]

Sounds about right. Some of Wagner weren't happy about being incorporated into the Russian military it seems. And Prigozhin was certainly upset at losing his lucrative contract.

[@user-yl6gw9mg4n]

"Nobody is going to break us. We have Victoria Nuland and Anne Appelbaum . . . . and we are Ukrainians."

[@iljaliasenko143]

😂 hilarious

[@xanderalaniz2298]

Day 3,417 since Russia began this... "process" in 2014.

[@AcuteTomato]

CIA began this, surely?

[@grzegorzowczarek3016]

@@AcuteTomato For sure, 400-800 thousand protesters were directly controlled by CIA, maybe with brain implants.

[@colby25]

@@AcuteTomato Putin propagandist, surely?

[@robertsteele474]

@@colby25 Toria Nuland propagandist, absolutely.

[@tubthump]

When Russia began this process? Ukraine had a democratically elected President who was relatively pro-Russian until the US backed coup in 2014.

[@johnwilliams2660]

What chance of a democratic uprising in Belarus with Wagner in the country.

[@jameswilson1363]

Unconditional surrender.

[@tubthump]

Zelenskyy won't consider any kind of surrender while USA/ NATO keeps supplying the cash and weaponry.

[@johnwocke5393]

It’s useless to express a preference for what happens to Putin. As events unfold they a generally not in your control.

[@MANC2311]

I get Tommy DeSimone from Goodfellas vibes. Prigozhin walks int an empty room and "Oh No." One in the back of the head.

[@Jablicek]

Sounds like Lukashenko hasn't played Diplomacy: never "host" someone else's army.

[@govinda102000]

No choice.

[@Jablicek]

@@govinda102000 There's always a choice. We don't always like the consequences though.

[@rmdomainer9042]

Please don't call it NUKULAR. G.W. Bush is so passé

[@marinaclarasanchezsuarez2905]

Putin retreat from Ukraine and save himself??? Thats Not realistic. If he loses hes Done and even before losing probably💥

[@taralown7023]

would love to hear synder on podcast

[@cinnaminson0653]

23:20- cool Godfather reference.

[@paulagraphr]

Francis, Sadam was contained and back in his box. There was no good reason for my country to invade and depose him, and it did far more to destabilize the middle east than any other event this century. I'm sorry my country dragged yours into it, but there's no reason we have to pretend it was necessary

[@tubthump]

Damn straight. Well said that man.

[@olegvegan]

It's Suh-rah-VEE-kin, not Su-ROV-kin 😂

[@karolinawww6834]

I guess hey're doing their best xD

[@greyjamiesod4989]

?????

[@AcuteTomato]

@@greyjamiesod4989 - His name is Серге́й Влади́мирович Сурови́кин ~ note the accent over the и that is the vowel to be emphasised. It is indeed Suh-rah-VEE-kin. Telegraph personnel aren't very good at pronunciation.

[@tubthump]

@@AcuteTomato they're not very good at facts either!

[@AcuteTomato]

Duckspeak more snide than usual in this episode so I suspect things aren't going well for NATO. Love this podcast, it's so non-U.

[@simonwatson2399]

NATO applications are at their highest for years, thanks to Russia.

[@dearmas9068]

This is another example of idiot Kremlin trolls trying to trick us into believing their lies by claiming to support the opposition. The subversion is disgusting and pathetic. Dont be fooled by these evil fork-tongued scumbags

[@tubthump]

@@simonwatson2399 the country Russia least wants to join NATO is Ukraine - hence the invasion. No other country being a member threatens Russias access to its most important naval base.

[@simonwatson2399]

@@tubthump it's not up to Russia if Ukraine wants to join. They only started talking about membership AFTER Russia's secretly back insurgency in the Donbas. As for Sevastopol, the only reason they feared losing it is because that's what they would do if the tables were turned. They've got no concept of normal international behaviour.

[@tubthump]

@@simonwatson2399 It's not up to Russia if Ukraine joins NATO in the same way it wasn't up to USA if Cuba formed a pact with USSR in 1962? Russia did back the Donbass separatists. But at the same time USA/NATO was arming and training Ukrainian militias and troops who were intent on killing them. And let's not forget that the reason the ethnic Russians in the Donbass wanted to separate from Ukraine was because of laws attacking their language and culture - which were only introduced because of the 2014 US/NATO (Victoria Nuland) backed coup which ousted the democratically elected Russian-friendly President. Does your concept of normal international behaviour include justifying the continued US military occupation of Iraq and Syria?

[@thinker646]

Ive lost track of relative amounts but i hear priggy is filthy rich. Wouldn't confiscating hiswealth make a big difference in the Rushin war chest?

[@duncanstewart6381]

Maybe it would be best to move Lukashenko to Russia. Most of his people are fighting for Ukraine now.

[@grahamnelson8674]

Putin must be gone letting him live he would still live a good life in massive Russia that sends a bad message that people like putin can commit the most sickening war crimes and be aloud to go into retirement and live a good life thats insane. Slava Ukraine

[@bbbb98765]

I'm ok with Lukashenko harbouring Wagner. That's a continuing problem for Putin. Of course Wagner should be brought to justice, but that can't happen yet, so in the meantime...

[@kny1098]

I'm a little bit worried. Poland, my country, has history with Belarus of them sending illegal migrants at our border fences. Wagner being there makes me think: Will they try again what they tried back in 2021? If they do try it, will they send those wild animals too? Will we suceed in stopping them? Will allies help us? Maaan, being the shield of Europe is exhausting as it is. I can't even imagine what our Ukrainian brothers and sisters are going through.

[@JK_Clark]

Is it a problem for putler, or a place he can find refuge when his oligarchs choose to dethrone him?

[@bbbb98765]

@@JK_Clark I think it's a problem for Putin because he and Prigozhin are done. He's incandescent about it. If Putin eventually hunkers down in Belarus, it ain't going to be vodka and cuddles with Prigozhin

[@cjwensleydale9460]

Maybe Wagner should use this opportunity to rebrand? I think DirleWagner is a more suitable name, given their record for murder, rape and torture...

[@bezdownunder5481]

Us intelligence the people who brought us weapons of mass destruction and chemical weapons attack in syria... not the best track record

[@kyrgyzstanuberalles]

Slava Rossii!

[@jimamar]

So, when will Ukraine cross the finish line?

[@simonwatson2399]

When the last Russian soldier crosses the border (physical or spiritual).

[@tubthump]

Russia hasn't finished drawing the lines yet. And Ukraine will keep fighting while USA/NATO wants it to - or until there's no-one left (or its WWIII)

[@simonwatson2399]

@@tubthump Ukraine will keep fighting as long as Ukrainians want to. As Putin has found, it's pretty hard to force people that fight when they don't want to.

[@tubthump]

@@simonwatson2399 I wouldn't condemn any Ukrainian for fighting to defend their country. It's just that there are very few Ukrainians who would claim Crimea as their country - or Donbass for that matter, and Donbass would have remained a part of Ukraine under the Minsk II accords if they had been implemented.

[@tubthump]

@@simonwatson2399 also, Russia does not use conscripts in combat roles and was able to mobilise 350K reservists in a few weeks.

[@edwardmuyunda6469]

FFC , Good

[@KenSoHappyClegg]

Why do all news reports keep calling Putin's obvious double, Putin???

[@Fu-orksGive.PEACE.achance.]

😂😂😂Putin 1 Putin 2. Not good prospects for long term.

[@KenSoHappyClegg]

@@Fu-orksGive.PEACE.achance. 😂😂😂

[@Centurion101B3C]

I find the comparison of the situation with Putin with Sadam Hussein a highly specious and even pruriently impure one. I certainly hope that the aftermath of the Ukraine conflict is going to be handled more intelligently and with vastly more proficiency than the unmitigated disaster of what Iraq / Afghanistan turned into. Sadam Hussein was a murderous thug, but comparing him with the vile and incalculably more vicious Viper (with due apologies to actual vipers) in the Kremlin is a gross disservice to common sense and proper historic interpretation.

[@davorbubic3378]

Hear, Hear! In the end, although counting amongst the worst dictators in the History of Mankind, Saddam Hussein was basically a very studious disciple of the Soviet praxis of state coercion that was standardized by Lenin and Beria.. Putin on the other hand can only be properly categorized as a monster (capitalized and triple underlined) who has brought this praxis to new levels.

[@govinda102000]

Similar as our leaders stood by. Baker even mentioned to Sadaam we would stand by if he invaded Kuwait.

[@tubthump]

Putin is moderate compared to many members of the Duma. Opposition party members have been calling for military intervention in the Donbass since 2014

[@herbdesson6843]

napolean in elba

[@john_in_phoenix]

Putiny on the Don.

[@sd_pjwal]

I don't understand why the US can't just make a humanitarian case right now for unilateral military intervention. Of course, it would not be (unilateral that is). But can't we at least start by destroying Wagner in other geo-political areas right now? Why is Russia able to conduct a war (excuse me, a special military operation) in Ukraine, but we can't absolutely occupy Belarus? Why not? It would cost nothing, Belarus would not put up a fight and it would force Putin to end the war in Ukraine immediately.

[@wisnubachtiar4257]

💖🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺💖🤟

[@A55Hol3_Actual]

Perhaps get out of the pot of boiling water next podcast lads. 🤦‍♂

[@nickturnock3369]

I think a humiliated Putin needs to go. When he first came to power he wanted to continue with his immediate predecessors in doing business with the West. But the West contiually belittled and humiliated Russia and Putin and we wouldn't be where we are today if the West hadn't done so. To a man with power, humiliation motivates use of that power.

[@colby25]

If he hadnt annexed crimea in 2014 then putin wouldnt have been belittled and humiliated. Russia was in the G8 for 14 years previous to that. That wasnt being belittled and humiliated.

[@tubthump]

@@colby25 Russias annexation of Crimea was in response to the US backed coup which ousted the Russian-friendly democratically elected President of Ukraine. Even during the G8 years, Russias concerns about its security and about NATO encroachment were dismissed

[@iljaliasenko143]

Russians will decide in next election 😊

[@nargizk390]

Biden said "Putin is losing war in Iraq"😂😂😂

[@govinda102000]

Old like trump

[@dandun30]

Cope

[@rmdomainer9042]

Great argument Paj eet

[@burgermind802]

cope is when Putin embarrassed all his supporters?

[@raymondparnell439]

Putin worlds biggest clown

[@michaellamb2249]

Disingenuous, bollocks a lie and say it out loud.

[@truthcrackers]

Its not baddies vs goodies more context please.

[@rmdomainer9042]

yes, it is baddies vs goodies

[@firstlast1217]

Russian terrorists

[@MrRoyalbeers]

If there ever was a baddie vs goodie its this

[@brittadueandersen2519]

NO black/white

[@SteveMHN]

Actually that's exactly what this disgusting war is. We are seeing the very worst in humanity with russia, we are seeing the very best in humanity with Ukrainians.

[@Kareesu]

This is pro war propaganda. Where is the call for peace?

[@LucasDimoveo]

Peace will happen once Russia leaves Ukraine

[@raymondparnell439]

We don't want peace at the price of freedom.

[@jacobschindler2513]

This is a call for peace. Once all the Russians are dead there will be peace.

[@APW554]

Peace will come when Russia is crushed. Not long now….

[@enochcushite496]

NATO never wants peace! How would they make money?

[@rezakarampour6286]

Victory belongs to Russia .

[@AngusAbbott-qf8xm]

Hui Budesh

[@GaryGraham-sx4pm]

russia is not a happy place for a very long time

[@rmdomainer9042]

Just 2 more weeks huh?

[@burgermind802]

Putin will perish in victory or die in failure

[@firstlast1217]

Russian Troll

[@devilishdeed]

Ukraine is losing. Stop the war.

[@truthcrackers]

I find this channel very dismissive of the Russian position to the point of mocking. Do better.

[@ashleylittle6776]

It's easy to mock Russians when they show daily they are merely drunk incompetent liars!

[@simonwatson2399]

Given Russia's position is laughable, mocking seems appropriate.

[@chriszzw30]

They never seem to cover chemtrails either. Can't recommend this channel.

[@tadpolevinyl7841]

When this conflict directly affects those who provoked it, then their position will cease to be dismissive. in the meantime, they just watch the Russians fight among themselves and applaud

[@simonwatson2399]

​@@tadpolevinyl7841you don't think it's affecting Russia already?

[@johntrinci9445]

So biased, more like activists or NATO propagandists speaking, disgusting. Even handed reporting please.

[@ashleylittle6776]

Lol got to laugh at an incompetent liars from Russia, trying to cope with Russian ineptitude!

[@burgermind802]

reporting isn't supposed to be even handed, this isn't kindergarten, sweetie

[@firstlast1217]

Russian Troll

[@SteveMHN]

They don't have any obligation to be non biased, as long as they don't knowingly lie. They should be supportive of Ukraine. Ukraine are fighting for their future, their right to exist as Ukrainians. Russians are fighting for greedy criminals.

[@johntrinci9445]

@@burgermind802 yes it is honey, otherwise it's propaganda

[@perlaursen1885]

Speech on this video is without value. Its overdubbed by annoying muzak, meaning its just a lousy commercial.

[@AngusAbbott-qf8xm]

the music must be in your head ? Along with the voices? 🇺🇦

[@jasonkirk7802]

Spanked into a tree? Doesn't sound at all dodgy.

[@enochcushite496]

Sad for the innocent life lost! Russia warned Ukraine they would attack all decisions centres … Any where NATO Personnel are will be struck… Ukraine civilians should refuse NATO personnel to keep themselves safe….

[@simonwatson2399]

In other words, Ukrainians must do as Russia says or Russia will kill them. How civilized.

[@AcuteTomato]

Russian Defence Ministry: "The Russian Armed Forces eliminated two Ukrainian generals, up to 50 officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and up to 20 foreign mercenaries and military advisers in Kramatorsk."

[@rayscott3445]

Surely if Russia and Wagner using prisoners can we use migrants to fight and if they serve five years they can come and live in Ukraine plenty of houses over there ain't it

[@LucasDimoveo]

That is cruel and will backfire in very obvious ways

[@enochcushite496]

So I guess no one every heard of Britain and US talk about ho they are special Relationship What about NATO talking about unconditional support for Ukraine All that is fine but if Russia and any other country say the same it’s a problem? Total hypocrites

[@simonwatson2399]

Russia wants support for its invasion of another country. Ukraine wants support to defend its own country. Big difference.

[@martavdz4972]

They didn't mean it's a problem, they just said it indicates their relationship is slightly insecure. But I agree that NATO countries keep assuring each other of mutual unity and support, too. So I didn't really understand this argument, it doesn't work.