Primer on Solar Ebike Systems

[@johnsshed995]

At last someone explaining solar charging in a way I can allmost understand lol

[@remi8200]

I used the MPPT that Grin recommended to set up a system to charge our new Lectric bikes (52V) or charge my Yuba Munro/Stokemonkey (36V). I really like that I can change the output voltage as needed. Thanks to Grin team for all that you all have done for the fun world of electric assisted people movers!

[@jenboelling2160]

I'm so grateful that you made this!! Man we've came so far. This is the way to the eco friendly future!!! 😮😮😮😊😊😊😇👼👼

[@Discostew2]

Perfect timing! I am getting very close to purchasing a solar setup for my bike. Excellent video. Thank you Justin

[@reeread]

A great video as always. Thank you very much. I run a simpler system. I run my flexible solar panel on a Trailer cart towed by my E bike. I use a 12v output MPPT Controller connected to an 8ah 12 V lithium ion battery. I connect the 12 V lithium ion battery to a step up Buck converter that gives me 42 volts at 2 amps for recharging my 36 V E bike battery. I just wait until I’m about 90% of battery capacity and then I plug-in the barrel connector from the buck converter Into my 36 volt battery while I continue to ride. I do not use regenerative braking. Thank You

[@joshpit2003]

Being able to dial in your voltage output is AWESOME!

[@JackButlerVideos]

Negative Wh/Km. living the dream!

[@donhaueter5285]

Great can’t wait to update my solar system. I have been charging a separate battery sure would be nice to lose the weight.

[@denveradventures589]

I’ve got a set up like that too. The nice part is that we can charge in the shade still.

[@dennisyoung4631]

The spare battery, *if you can handle the weight,* is not a bad deal - as in you have a backup source of power. I have thought to do this exact thing, simply because that way the spare is getting charged all the time the solar cells are producing current. Thought was to use the spare to charge up the main battery during rest stops (when electric outlets are not to be had; if I can find one, and can use it, the Satiator will come out) using a current limiting element, I.e. by pulse-width modulation. Both batteries will get their main charges up to 85% in the campground or hotel at the night’s stop.

[@AaronHendu]

I am hoping to fit 300w of solar of my nearly completed bicycle camper, and then another 2 x 25w panels on my daily bike. The 2 x 25W is just to give my bike a charge when I am not using it, and the camper combined with the 2x25w will be used when pulling the trailer. I have a motor for the trailer as well, but I am unsure yet if I am going to use it. I might buy another two hub motors for the camper. It has sealed bearing wheels though with a "pin" style axle, so no dropouts. I would have to build an axle, or run one wheel drive. Are the axles of hub motors easy to swap like a normal hub? I guess I could just leave the camper unpowered and put all the power to my bike. I am using 48V on my ebike, but my camper has a 24V battery and 12v/24V MPPT. Sounds like I should just convert it those cells into a 48V battery and get a new MPPT?

[@outtatrex]

Great explainer, thank you !

[@bikeadventure1]

"In our next video we're gonna talking about multiple solar panels...". Can't wait to see that :-) When do you intend to upload?

[@CurlyFurlong]

We just filmed it yesterday, so within the next few weeks :)

[@ScrapKing73]

I think Hobotech (et al) get it right. Instead of a bespoke MPPT controller, get a small lithium ion power station. Much more versatile. Any extra weight is mostly from the extra battery capacity, which is actually a feature rather than a bug. And if worried about weight, get a 45 lbs e-bike rather than a 65+ lbs e-bike.

[@GrinTechnologies]

This goes into a much deeper analysis: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2areX-PaaeZd5Ysi=scS_lLeNQy7IbApX Mechanical considerations aside, at least in summer weather a solar panel is both cheaper and lighter than an additional lithium battery of the same daily energy capacity. Ex, a 200 watt solar panel is under 4kg and will generate around 1kwhr /day. While a 1kwr battery costs twice as much and weighs more like 5.5kg

[@GrinTechnologies]

Oh maybe I read you wrong, are you saying just use the panels to go into a lower voltage lithium pack directly (no mppt) and the have a separate DC-DC to boost this back to pack voltage?

[@greencraftingandrecyclings2222]

Very cool. im designing a cargo tricycle im thinking this has a lot of potential for providing my tricycle music and sat nav etc need to add up the numbers though

[@GrinTechnologies]

If it's an electric assist trike then what we describe here will totally work. But if it's a pedal-only trike and you want solar to run auxiliary stuff like music, lights, gps etc., then it makes sense to get a conventional buck converter to 12V with a 12V battery, rather than a boost converter to higher ebike battery voltages.

[@boruchlen]

Excellent! Learned a lot. Thank you. Looking forward to your next video.

[@StopLossLOL]

Great Video. Could you make a video about charging ebikes with EV charging stations for electic cars, including the required adapters? Thank you!

[@GrinTechnologies]

There are people who make j1772 adapters to regular receptacles if you want to do that, but it's honestly a bit wasteful to tie up a 6kw charging port for just a few hundred watts of power, unless you are traveling with a whole fleet of ebikes and bring a power bar!

[@tofanalexander]

Some BMS use same wiring cables for charging/discharging. Not sure if powering the bike while charging is the best course of action. Why not use a secondary battery?!

[@Toby10]

Thanks for the Link ❤️👍 or written via emeil to Grin technologies asking for the complete kit plus panels the best. since o dog trailer from 100 × 70 amortized 😁🐕 ,, trailer in ergal designed and built by me. 10klg only. it can carry over 50klg of weight. the site has not yet answered me .... I wanted to buy but not seeing Catello found objects and more .... I hope they will reply 🙏🙏

[@flolou8496]

I saw a finished off the shelf unit avalable for sale at 750.00 today, (I know not cheap)

[@chalycanmonroe]

Where can I get the solar shunt that you are using from?

[@GrinTechnologies]

ebikes.ca/shunt-ca3.html

[@aliensanonymous5063]

Impractical but allows you to ride without needing an external source of power, even if you have to wait a few hours for it to charge. Can't get stranded and can travel cross country.

[@seancashin1826]

Also, you should make your torque arms 3/8" instead of 10mm. It will fit a 10mm axle more snug.

[@nigelnightmare4160]

That's because they machine Clearance into the hole so it doesn't bind. Good tip though.

[@seancashin1826]

@@nigelnightmare4160 I use a 3/8" wrench on both sides of my rear hub motor. I bolted the closed end to a hose clamp, and wrapped brake line around them lengthwise to hold the axle into the crescent. Now it's just really hard to change a pinch flat

[@LichtTempler]

Will your display work with famous Kuteng (KT) Controllers? Or I have to change all system, if I want to use V3 Cycle Analyst?

[@GrinTechnologies]

If you use the Stand Alone Cycle Analyst shunt you can use the CA3 with virtually any controller. You just need to change your wiring a bit so that the throttle plugs into the CA3, and then the CA3's throttle output (green pigtail wire on the shunt) hooks up to your motor controller's throttle input.

[@LichtTempler]

@@GrinTechnologies , thanks! I found it!

[@mojojuicejoe1]

This is dope.

[@richardbodine7256]

Great video love the idea. I confess my ignorance. I really don't know what is being talked about when you're talking about amp hours voltage and wattage.What are some good resources for learning more about what all that really means.

[@GrinTechnologies]

It's basically the first topic for any introductory lesson in electronics, of which there are too many options to list. As a kid browsing the library I found the manuals published for the US navy / army had the best plain language and diagrams for producing 'aha' moments to make sense of it all.

[@pincus321]

Would your controller work on a Dapu mid drive motor

[@GrinTechnologies]

The MPPT charge controller discussed in this video doesn't really care what motor system you have, it just needs to be able to charge through the charging port of your battery pack and virtually all ebike batteries (except for Bosch) are fine with this when underway.

[@Bang6484a]

Can you ride a bike only by solar panel? Not any battery as a support.

[@GrinTechnologies]

You can but it would be a really terrible experience. The timing of when the sun does and doesn't land on the panel will not at all correlate with how much power you need on the bicycle, and all the solar energy that lands on the panels when you don't need it (eg stopped at a traffic light, coasting downhill etc) will get wasted. The system is vastly more efficient and useful when you have a battery to buffer the energy flow.

[@Bang6484a]

@@GrinTechnologies No i don't mean that at try it as a prototype

[@GrinTechnologies]

Sure, as a prototype you can do this. You'll generally always be riding at the low voltage cutoff of the motor controller, and it would be best to set the controller's LVC to match roughly with the anticipated max power point voltage of the solar panel you are using.

[@Slab_City_or_Bust]

If you're charging while riding, you should use angled plugs so they don't stick out. Charging while using is said to be bad for the battery, although I'm guilty of that, years ago, myself. Charging a 2nd battery is better. As far as solar, I'll stick with my gas generator trailer, thank you very much.

[@GrinTechnologies]

This is not true at all. The battery has no idea if it is charging while moving or not and there isn't any evidence that have it alternate between net charging and discharging (as occurs here when your load shifts above and below the charging wattage) has any effect. This is no different in some sense than regenerative braking which is used to great effect in ever single electric car on the market.

[@davincisuper4801]

You are the best Justin 👍👍😉😉

[@mrtechie6810]

If you charge through the discharge port, bypassing the BMS charge protection, how do you ensure all lithium cells are protected from overcharge?

[@GrinTechnologies]

You don't, but usually you'd set your solar charger MPPT output to not be a 100% charge anyways and you would rely on having a broadly balanced pack in the first place which is the case almost all ebike setups using quality battery packs and cells. If this is a concern for your situation, then either use a battery that has a common port BMS, or hook it up through the charging port if you only have access to batteries with dual port BMS's.

[@mattmcconnell6870]

This video is super awesome. I know this is a bit of a strange question but can you use one of these on a mid drive or bbshd unit? I love the solar input feature but have never seen a cycle analyst used on a bafang system. Thank you for your hard work making this content and product.

[@Discostew2]

Are you talking about their display Cycle Analyst or the solar setup?

[@wornoutwrench8128]

Check out this guy on KZbin. He has a recumbent trike with a solar system. He recently went to a mid drive and has it running through his CA. That Solar Bike Guy kzbin.info/door/A16jq6U98VSKFrW51Yqzxg

[@GrinTechnologies]

Hi Matt, for sure it's zero problem at all to use it on a BBSHD setup. You can wire up the stand alone CA3-DPS device to any ebike at all as a monitoring unit, just hook up the shunt inline with the battery leads. You won't have any of the control features (like current / speed limiting, throttle ramping etc) since the throttle isn't wired into your system, but you'll be able to see your speed, energy consumption, and all of that stuff along with the solar details.

[@mattmcconnell6870]

@@Discostew2 Both

[@mattmcconnell6870]

@@wornoutwrench8128 I will do that now thank you.

[@giovannicarrubba828]

Please how can I contact you?

[@12vLife]

think i can trust the BMS on ebike 48v batteries? Okay to charge at 60v5amp using solar directly?

[@GrinTechnologies]

Use an MPPT set to the correct full charge voltage and charge through the batteries charging port (if it has one) and you should be fine with minimal risk.

[@laryangel4082]

Ty

[@kona_moon6055]

Now, I know everything. 👍

[@Eric_Tennant]

Going with 200 watt for 550 miles. Wont be running solar on the bike just when in camp. well 21 watt on the bike for phone, camera, drone, and lights.

[@WeMakeLaw]

Thank you!

[@Seafariireland]

Excellent!

[@shravanpoovaiah9329]

Well explained!

[@mcbruddaal]

nice

[@TomaszNowak-ey3bx]

Super Idee...super filmik

[@far1002]

Why dosent any bike manufacturers incorporate super caps in there systems. Having a buffer will remove stress from the battery increasing your range .

[@GrinTechnologies]

Super caps have about 50x worse energy density than lithium, and modern lithium batteries have zero problems with the 'C' rate charging and discharging required by ebike systems. So at present there is no 'battery stress' problem that they solve. All they would do is add weight to a setup. There was a time in in the early days of lithium battery tech when there was a small case to make for supercaps to buffer the power demand when the cells had high impedance and weren't really good at more than 0.5C discharge rates, but advances in lithium tech have made that pretty moot.

[@far1002]

@@GrinTechnologies thanks i was sure gonna try makes sense..

[@darylbeyersdorf7932]

What would this set up cost in USD$$$

[@alexseguin5245]

Great video! Seems like more than one solar panel is overkill. I'd add a cheeseburger instead and go a bit harder on the pedals!

[@GrinTechnologies]

You can do that too! Just be mindful that cheeseburgers have a larger carbon footprint and cost than solar panels per unit of energy supplied to the bike. A 100W solar panel like this produces the equivalent energy to the wheels of about 1.5 cheeseburgers / day, so it doesn't take more than a couple months in the sun for a panel to pay for itself in cheesburger savings ;-)

[@TheLab-X]

Nice!

[@ronbrideau8902]

I think it would be more efficient to charge the batteries in pairs with the just solar power boosting one to the other for a while and then switching. With no losses from voltage conversion.

[@ems.syahidisiregar5170]

Is the best..

[@swaglover1235]

how much mate

[@yycbiker]

The solution to reducing energy loss from solar panels heating up is to add a thin thermocouple beneath the solar cells to use heat energy to replace what solar cells lose from heating up. Why hasn’t anyone figured this out yet? Such a thermocouple could then be used for solid state cooling technology. Win. Win.

[@maheshv1395]

The display is pretty archaic.

[@GrinTechnologies]

Yet still he most versatile one around!

[@MrAdamNTProtester]

@maheshv1395- so you are working on a better one then... how much & when do you ship it? ASFAIC- there is all the info you need... who cares about colors & GUI that you can touchscreen to trigger... its info not entertainment dummy

[@MrAdamNTProtester]

@@GrinTechnologies its fine as is- thank you- excellent work... these are the incremental steps that lead to the place humanity needs to arrive at... aka DON'T FEED THE TROLLS... they are like bears the more you feed them the more they come back for more... you def don't want to end up like bearman ;)

[@sailortoni]

In 2025?

[@panzerwolf494]

Just buy a solar generator and skip all the extra wiring

[@pascalbruyere7108]

Your helmet…. 😒

[@68BigSherm]

That "I'm covid vaccinated" sticker didn't stand the test of time very well.

[@5DNRG]

I see...in the not too distant future, these solar panels will be miniaturized and our world will improve exponentially for ebikes, homes and businesses. Cant wait!!!!

[@DJHeroMasta]

Yup! We already have wearable solar panels on book bags and jackets being used to charge smartphones. And with the jackets, your movements (arms swinging) is converted into usable energy which too charges your devices.

[@seancashin1826]

You should configure your solar panels in series for higher voltage and lower current. Parallel solar cells have worse shade efficiency, and buck converters are more efficient than boost. I am building one right now if you want one.

[@witoldskrodzki5093]

My brother thank you so much for your very hardwork. But sometimes take a little rest too because it is important too-you deserve it. Grettings from Poland

[@100musicplaylists3]

solar bike campers are really taking off. its like a new vw camper movement.

[@GrinTechnologies]

There are entire meetups of solar bike campers happening all over Germany, it's just amazing and we love to see it!

[@100musicplaylists3]

@@GrinTechnologies yes, i hope to do solar racing one day.

[@DeanTheDoctor]

Love the animation of the sun! 😊🌎💫

[@mikekearsley2407]

Great video! I have been wanting to add a solar panel to my bike. This video really helps. Thanks from Seattle

[@Davmm96]

This is bonkers, it really sparks my interest! I'm usually doing adventure motorcyling but this way of travelling might save a good amount of money to be instead invested in good food :)

[@nigelnightmare4160]

Easy to understand, even for an old luddite like me (58yrs old). Thank's from the UK.

[@michelcote]

Somethimes especially when there is 2 ways, I wish that Positive and negative Wh be reversed. i.e. Positive charge the battery, a net positive energy in the system And negative use energy from the battery. You loose energy in the system. But I understand that the convention is kind of reverse. Congrats, always a superbe work at explaining things.

[@freemindmusic2824]

Put it on a lil bike trailer, have it behind the bike an you can keep stuff in the trailer like camping stuff or whatever.

[@TroyRank]

Always on the leading edge ♥ ♥ ♥

[@hemaccabe4292]

This was incredibly interesting and informative. Thank you.

[@CleverLittleMaker]

Great video Justin. Really appreciate all this wisdom sharing.

[@myleswillis]

This looks like an amazing bit of kit. I can't imagine how much time and effort went into developing it. That said I think it would be an absolute game changer if you could feed all of this telemetry into a smartphone app. Most of us already have one mounted to out handlebars. It's definitely on the wish list.

[@GrinTechnologies]

It can be fed in already with a USB-OTG cable and an android phone running a terminal app. Not as convenient as Bluetooth but the hardware is all there.

[@Davmm96]

Beeing more on the efficiency side, I'd say it's better to have that little dashboard than a backlit screen running all the time.

[@peteleoni9665]

Something is wrong with the math. I would love this to be correct.. but......

[@xmtxx]

Wow. I have no use for solar panels atm (mostly urban commuting), but, this is awesome. It opens up so many possibilities. With this and a velomobile, you can build an aptera on the cheap, and be completely autonomous. Great job as always. Keep up the good work.

[@LuisLabastida]

Is that the Grin All Axle motor on the Big Dummy?

[@GrinTechnologies]

In the video it's actually an eZee motor on the front that I was testing. The All Axle is a bit larger in diameter.

[@soupydog1]

Are you trying to tell us something with that shirt ?

[@yanassi]

The handmade wire from the mppt to the battery input, what is that? Is it available somewhere?

[@GrinTechnologies]

That is a custom made wire with the ST3 charging plug on one end and anderson powepoles on the other. In a pinch you can make this by snipping off the wire of your battery charger and terminating the joint with andersons.

[@fredbesaw678]

I am not sure of everything being mentioned. I have my ebike, but not yet am I sure to use a solar panel or panels. I bought a new 300 watt solar system, but did not work on a standard battery, I feel the MPPT was not working, so I bought another one, just waiting. I hope I will be able to make one work.

[@KING_OF_FARTS]

Awesome video man. Now can i fly you out to my house and hook it all up to my bike.

[@dennisyoung4631]

“…and charging emergency batteries, which are very much like Ebike batteries - chief difference being the size and shape.”

[@MichaelEricMenk]

Regarding shading, you can have two smaller panels in parallel.. In this case two 50W. When the one is shaded, the other one can give full power.

[@GrinTechnologies]

Indeed, the next follow-up video on this will cover that exact topic. But two 50 W panels in parallel with one of them partially shaded is still not as good as each 50W panel with it's own MPPT, since the max power voltage for a shaded panel is different than one in full sun.

[@MichaelEricMenk]

@@GrinTechnologies looking forward to that video.. But the smaller the panels, the more diminishing return on investment (for two controllers in sted of one) Not only the price of the two MPPT, but increased power consumption of one extra MPPT controller. The last bit is probably low, as efficiency has improved over the years. An other option for use of two solar panels is having them as a V shape behind the seat. One panel to each side. This is to increase the size of the panel on a regular sized bike.

[@MichaelEricMenk]

@@GrinTechnologies and also, they are now selling pre-split solar panels. It's two panels in parallel mounted on one frame. They advertise with better shading properly. Since it is one panel, it's has to be used on one controller/micro-inverter. The panels are called half cut.

[@XiaolinDraconis]

Build it into a bike rack that it fits on and eliminates the flex issue.

[@lavectech]

Great ideas, thanks

[@alvarobotelhovillelaaprendernu]

Show parabéns pelo projeto um abraço do Brasil

[@neliomoura354]

Congratulations! Would you know... Do "The Sun Trip" cyclists alternate batteries or do the solar panels stay connected to the batteries/motor all the time? I think other people also have doubts about direct connection panel/battery/motor running. Thank you, success! Nélio - Brazil, MG.

[@GrinTechnologies]

On the suntrip race everyone has their batteries hooked up the whole time both to the panels and the controller. There is no issue about having charging take place while the motor is running, I'm not sure why people would have doubts about this. The only exception we're aware of is Bosch ebikes which have an overly protective battery system. They don't like to be charged through the discharge port and they don't like to allow the bike to run if the battery thinks it is in a charging state.

[@chjvarma]

Nice data sir

[@carlosguzman-md2mt]

when you charge an ebike at home it shows up only as turning on a lightbulb

[@CharlesNewkirk-lb6uh]

I had so many questions about this topic!

[@pdxRoberge]

You are such a good teacher!!

[@Toby10]

Hello I was looking for a long time for my trip. maybe you can help me. I have to charge 52v 28ah 1456wh battery with solar panel above my trailer with my dog. can you tell me if feasible? what do I have to buy,!?

[@GrinTechnologies]

To charge this amount of batteries up in a day of full sunlight you would need about a 250-300 watt solar panel, while in more typical conditions you would probably want more like 400-500 watts. See ebikes.ca/learn/solar.html for more info

[@Toby10]

@@GrinTechnologies thanks Even less because of the bulkiness. The important thing is you had a minimum of support to travel. I understand the quantities and sun that would be needed. Here with me he does not use Germany, Holland, Denmark. Here Italy is road rules country constrictor in bike and especially in trailer 😭😭 but something deo genre I can create. If I send you my project trailer to emails. I am Marco pleasure to meet you 💪👍😉🙏❤️

[@methods-SE]

Hero

[@Dkrpan59]

I bought a Belize fat tire 20 inch trike from Canada and modified the upper rear bike part of the frame to accommodate a rickshaw 48 volt 750 watt bolt on motor that does 30 mph now working to be semi recumbent for better and easier speeds thinking about a solar panel trike is much better long as you are sitting low for stability

[@GrinTechnologies]

For sure, they're are thousands and thousands of examples of this. Just look at the solar category in our project gallery: ebikes.ca/project-gallery.html?other-features=25

[@pacificodeluta7507]

Good job sir

[@genilsongenilson7312]

🇧🇷👍💯🤑50w

[@chriskopec1858]

👍❤

[@juliabrown8316]

I have a Rad Power Bike. Can I charge the battery at the same time I am riding it, or does my battery have to be turned off in order to charge it? I would really like to charge and ride at the same one.

[@GrinTechnologies]

Rad bikes use generic batteries that almost for sure can be charged while underway.

[@bernard294]

Can i ride my quadriporteur 24v70ah wile charging

[@GrinTechnologies]

Yes for sure.

[@kokopelli314]

Solar firmware upgrade! Thank You!!

[@sleepingbearffg5008]

Been researching ebikes. Love your love for.. 👊👊👍👍

[@hemaccabe4292]

Can you be charging the battery while using/discharging it?

[@GrinTechnologies]

Absolutely.

[@edfernandez5189]

where can i buy that thin solar? am frm the Philippines. tnx

[@GrinTechnologies]

ebikes.ca/100w-flexible-solar-panel.html

[@nathanmciver6496]

People just don't understand the technology! Thank god that's what makes that affordable! And even then, thiers low cost to make them! Awesome fun!!!! The affordable price gets people to create more awesome projects

[@pirsensor1186]

Can i use this solar system to load my e skateboard battery.

[@GrinTechnologies]

Generally speaking yes, as long as you set the MPPT's output voltage to match the charge voltage of your battery pack and you have suitable connectors to mate with your charging port.

[@samsclassicworkshop15]

Can you please send me the link to buy complete setup for charging 48 v bike battery . Really appreciate. Thanks

[@davincisuper4801]

Wuaooooo, you are best, and I'm trying to install the solar system in my bike and conquer the world 🌏

[@scottwilliams6257]

At this point you may as well leave the bike alone and build a solar trailer that pushes the bike.

[@TrikeBikeAustralia]

Love all your videos - Thank you !

[@PhiLeo7973]

Bravo! Are you an Electrical Engineer young man? What a fantastic presentation!