Priority, spacing, clanging and rebound | Hitbox interaction in Super Smash Bros. Melee

[@Fizzi36]

I love the way you present information Kadano. It is really obvious you put a lot of time in to make complex topics as understandable as possible. Super interesting video, thanks a ton!

[@meleemechanics]

That means a lot coming from you! Thanks.

[@trtisme]

Melee Mechanics by Kadano You also make the presentation very calming, aesthetically pleasing, and you label things adequately. Learning this game is frustrating enough without people sometimes making information more hard to access by not labeling content in a way newer players can find it easily, but I can't see that being an issue with any of your videos. And the fact that it has calming music and is generally pleasing to watch (though it is my opinion and obviously subjective) seems like it would make it less frustrating and intimidating for people learning. Just great work overall, you're a credit to our community.

[@RascalTheChao]

Well, now I know why Marth's Dair always seemed unnaturally easy to sweetspot.

[@300PIVOTMASTER]

All of the little things that go into making this game the beauty that it is never cease to amaze me.

[@achumani123]

Oh my god, it's truly amazing to see how far a 14 year old game can be taken. As a veteran melee player and a fellow smasher, i'm proud to call this game my favorite, because of people like you, who never cease to amaze. Thank you for all your work.

[@Rh1thmz]

all nujabes soundtrack what a legend

[@frosure420]

Gotta love the smooth nujabes music, in the background

[@videogamesjohnson5160]

you put so much work into these im so glad youre part of this community excellent video, and great content on r/ssbm too

[@LyricalFluffer]

Pay this man

[@EvenMatchupGaming]

These vids are an awesome resource for the scene, so good. Smash + Nujabes is a wonderful thing. - Joe

[@kidd_kudu847]

EvenMatchupGaming same here, the music is amazing

[@Dragn7]

Excellent job on this, Kadano! Btw, I've had that SSBM Hitboxes spreadsheet for a long time, but never knew who made it. After seeing the author here I could finally go and rename the file to add that, haha.

[@meleemechanics]

Durgan yeah Toomai did an amazing job with this. And to think that he collected all of that manually …

[@Buutaro]

Much respect for the Nujabes music choice!

[@Sixsoul]

Wow, amazing video my brotha! Thank you! I can definitely tell you've spent a good amount of quality time down in the lab.

[@BorderlandSkylights]

Out of all the videos, guides, and explanations I've seen describing attack priority no one has done it as well as you have here.

[@guardian8926]

Just as a little cool tidbit, when an attack clangs it produces a sound similar to metal. This sound is changed when two swords clash to sound like of course, swords clashing.

[@caerulemusic]

a video with nujabes is always a good video

[@luciencelente4967]

Great stuff, diggin' the Nujabes music as well.

[@Peanutz996]

Overall this was very interesting, especially the fact that the non tipper (marth) hitboxes outprioritize the tipper. Never knew that!

[@1664MajorRaikov]

nujabes? Kadano you never fail to impress. 10/10 video like always

[@leomeror]

stale moves/staleness explanation starts at 4:30

[@Tachyon836]

Very helpful! Thanks a ton, now to setup more frame traps! Also, gives me a new reason to never use Bowser against Marth.

[@SimnaibnSind]

Melee Mechanics by Kadano Another one of those notable moves with an Article hitbox is Peach Bomber. Moves can easily be tested for this status by throwing them against a Ness thunder jacket after the thunder jacket has already hit the user of the move. The thunder jacket will clang/outprioritize any clangable move before it has hit the user of that move, but after it hits them it will only continue to block clangable Article hitbox moves.

[@MewcePewpz]

Immensely helpful and well put-together. Great stuff, lads!

[@Fray.gaming]

Nice music choice .. :D

[@magnusm4]

Favorite this video. First in a long time where only the best videos goes for me. Perfect for my game development. N3K EN talked about sphere colliders over box colliders in efficiency but being more annoying to code so I want to know how other games handle meelee to make it good

[@MACPCOSX7]

Incredible editing and very helpful! Thanks! (And thanks for your CRT help on smash boards!)

[@LeaGibson1]

Beautiful work brother Kadano!

[@TheCrustiCroc]

Good video, really informative! RIP Nujabes.

[@kirbyover9000]

Half of the reason I watch these are because of the music, gotta love Nujabes

[@DOverton252]

shoutouts to the homie always using Nujabes. Much love.

[@FishamanP]

Marth jab to help punish Falco invincible Side B recovery? Is this 30XX?

[@meleemechanics]

You can also use dsmash to kill instead if Falco is at ~>100%. The first hit protects, the second tippers. Obviously requires correct spacing. And Falco can vary his spacing by opting to do a backwards jump instead forward, making you hit the sourspot instead, so altogether it’s somewhat gimmicky. Still something to keep in mind though (at least in my opinion).

[@Aerros]

+FishamanP You can also jab with Ganondorf >.>;

[@FishamanP]

Aerros I feel like that wouldn't give you enough time to reach Falco. Maybe jump over the Phantasm and waveland Ftilt?

[@Aerros]

Im just telling you what works in a given situation. For some reason, some Falco/Fox players think they can SideB right passed others unharmed -__-

[@wahey8470]

I really enjoyed this video.

[@ussgordoncaptain]

Hey when's the next one coming out? Clearing misconceptions about CC is important

[@FortWhenTeaThyme]

So if I'm understanding this right, here's how it happens: The character with a port number closer to 1 has their id 0 hitbox checked against the opponent's ID 0 hitbox, then the opponent's ID 1 hitbox, etc? After that, the first player's ID 1 hitbox is checked against all the opponent's hitboxes in order again. If none of those clink, the player with port priority's ID 0 hitbox is checked against hurtboxes?

[@sebastiengayraud4717]

best poster on smashboards and youtube tho #1 #kadano

[@emperorlelouch5696]

Wow, I'm now educated on this stuff. Time to do better in SSBU

[@jasperscott7879]

This might be the subject of a new video, but why do Doraki Instant Walljumps happen? He told me its when you get a sweet spot on the ledge with your up-b it happens if you rubbed the wall before grabbing the ledge?

[@super2thesam]

Can you explain what the deal is with projectiles and why Samus ones get eaten by needles and bairs and the like? I've always wondered why Samus gets the short end of the stick in this regard

[@kneo12]

Holy shit this is gonna be so useful

[@PAPASTAIN]

all hail the jazzhop guides

[@mike-gt8yo]

how do you expect me to read when u got me jammin this hard

[@composercarman]

fantastic video! The music is very messy though, had to mute

[@meleemechanics]

Well, I can’t please everybody’s music taste, unfortunately. But as long as everyone who doesn’t like my music choice reacts like you and simply plays something else in the background, I don’t think it’s a problem. Was it too loud or simply not the kind of music you like? Watching it now, I think I should have put in a Fade-in effect over the first minute or so.

[@Victra]

Melee Mechanics by Kadano music was lovely. Takes a special person to not like nujabes. Keep up what you do Kadano.

[@RWW124]

I love the Nujabes

[@Jaymalakajamal]

This is exactly what I’m tryna figure out in smash ultimate

[@dchrisu]

nice nujabes type beats if it isnt nujabes, great facts thanks m8

[@jimmadrig7327]

Props on an awesome and informative video. Quick question since I can't seem to find the answer online anywhere: can anyone point me in the direction of the tool that allows you to see hitboxes, animation states, etc?

[@meleemechanics]

Jim madrig it’s already in Melee. It’s called develop mode and is accessible through the debug menu. To get into that, you can either use an AR or Gecko code, a modified DOL (game core file) or a pre-made .iso (for example Achilles’ 20XX hack pack). Which of these is best for you depends on which console you use and whether you like to keep Melee as vanilla as possible or not.

[@Mutant2Keen]

How is the backdash punish on falco easier? Since the backdash is inconsistent unless you have a really good controller

[@privacywillmatter]

Less controller inputs.

[@cross25011990]

pretty good work !

[@rik6031]

mmmmm That Nujabes track

[@louispluspizza]

Thanks but I wanna know what the colors mean for example red is damage, right?

[@Athesies]

Yeah theyre hiboxes that cause damage/knockback, yellow areas are portions of the characters that are vaulnerable to being hit

[@billlllllllllllll]

How do you enable hitboxes?

[@KristaTheWolf]

music is amazing

[@davidl1112]

Any idea why when the Ganon and Marth f-smashes clank that Ganon’s rebound animation pushes him towards Marth instead of back? Timestamp: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4DPgqljbrhksKc

[@Kadano]

Ganondorf's fsmash has innate horizontal movement, and when the attack is intercepted during those frames and transitions into rebound, the leftover momentum is carried over. It's a bit similar to boost grab. It's been a long time that I looked into this, but I expect that the rebound pushback is subtracted from the innate forward momentum, so if the fsmash forward delta is, say, 5, and the rebound pushback is 1, he still has a forward momentum speed of 4 left (that dissipates quickly as ground friction is applied).

[@Kenny2100vn]

Good work.

[@imgamerful]

very informative video

[@macpelle6022]

This is very interesting :)

[@alienturtle1946]

I've put off downloading the Toomai spreadsheet because it says 1.0 instead of 1.02. Is the difference of any concern?

[@meleemechanics]

The minor differences are all documented on ssbwiki.com.

[@alienturtle1946]

Melee Mechanics by Kadano Thank you!

[@raiku4275]

Well done

[@Jijowu]

Can you do one about about Smash 4 mechanics?

[@Jijowu]

And Ultimate when it comes out?

[@Peanutz996]

Oh wow, so this is why I always clang when trying to (marth) dtilt falco out of the middle of his phantasm?

[@meleemechanics]

Peanutz996 If he had ledge intangibility, yes. If he had not, you timed the dtilt too late.

[@Peanutz996]

Melee Mechanics by Kadano So when you're too late (no intangibility) you clang with his "artifact hitboxes"?

[@meleemechanics]

Peanutz996 Yes. When you look closely at 11:24, you see that his hitbox lags behind his hurtbox. When you time it too late, his hurtbox has already moved past you, but the hitbox is still in front of you.

[@Peanutz996]

Melee Mechanics by Kadano oh yeah, that's really cool, thank you!

[@MaachoNaacho]

Yoo peanutz Kreygasm

[@karibola]

How do you determine the number of ReboundStop frames?

[@meleemechanics]

I … counted them.

[@karibola]

Melee Mechanics by Kadano :/. I mean, what methodology does the game use to determine the number of reboundstop frames?

[@meleemechanics]

Ah, that’s what you mean, didn’t get you at first. It’s calculated just like normal hitlag.

[@flwns_]

enlightening

[@anonymous-zy2ol]

This could sorta apply to any smash bros right??

[@meleemechanics]

anonymous Sort of, yes. The exact formulas and hitbox properties are most probably different in the other titles, though.

[@sweetblazincronic9]

NUJABES KREYGASM

[@XMagusX]

Wow, some one has my nickname too...

[@TiberiousNeruda]

I kinda take issue with the usage of "disjointed" in this context. Simply having a hitting area bigger than the receiving area doesn't make a move disjointed, in fact that's pretty much true of *all* fighting game moves... it's having hitting areas where there aren't any hittable ones that makes an attack truly disjointed (Marth's sword in the first example, for instance, but not Fox's fist.). It's this true disjointing that makes sword-wielders so ridiculously advantaged in all the Smash games. Combine that with a general lack of recovery for most moves in Smash, and then you might understand why we got annoyed with "yet another sword-wielding FE character" in Smash 4.

[@ReanimareX]

'cept Marth in Smash 4. dem butterknifes tho

[@geozzii]

dat nujabes

[@Overthought7]

Christ, why did the game designers make such a complicated priority system?

[@derriclowe179]

NUJABES!

[@navi-charlotte]

Next time someone tells me that video games are for dumb people, I am going to show them this video. So much science happening here.

[@Noipros]

Finally !! Now I understand why I hate this shitty game !! What a nightmare of work... Really impressive ! Thanks a lot !

[@cgyh68748]

wow

[@Applesmaush]

Clang? You mean, clank?@.@

[@meleemechanics]

There is no one reference for which term to use. So far, I’ve read “clang”, “clank”, “clink”, “clash” and “ping”. All of these have dictionary definitions that seem appropriate. “Clang” is what is used by Toomai, the main contributor to everything good on ssbwiki.com, so I went with that. Magus uses “clank”, though, so it was really hard to decide between these two.

[@Applesmaush]

I didn't know "clang" was a real word until just now. I just thought that someone was making up some unnecessary Melee jargon when saying clank would work fine. lol

[@floyd8444]

Nujabes (:

[@mrsluigi9478]

1:08 This is why i hate marth