Prisoners don't have infinite rights

[@BandytaCzasu]

This time he probably tried to steal a police car from a police parking lot with police officers inside.

[@aajjeee]

From the back seat

[@aajjeee]

***** from north korea

[@wildwatcher9564]

That sounds just like a GTA scenario...

[@nutcrackit7396]

well in GTA it wouldn't be trying

[@jacobhayes5245]

"Push on bobbies, I'm takin this cop car!" "Aye where are you off to and when will you be back?" "I'm guna go talk about right wing politics" "YOU GOTTA GO TO JAIL NOW MATE"

[@Theodosius_fan]

I just asked him on patreon and have to solemnly inform the people that Lindybeige has not recieved his money as of the 21st of february 2021

[@kovacsgyorgy5043]

Keep us updated

[@leakycheese]

I would have gone to the hearing and demanded the fine be increased by a factor of ten.

[@xmoroseguyx]

It`s illegal to issue a fine with no realistic hope of it being paid, If you went for that claim, You would immediately void your claim and the whole case

[@Face2theScr33n]

@@xmoroseguyx How is a £150 fine unrealistic? The guy had six years and didn't even pay £15, making him a lazy BITCH!

[@Natonian9]

If the state had already increased the fine over 6 years of late fines there would have been no problem 🤑

[@bretterry8356]

It would take an annual interest rate of 33.35% compounded monthly to turn 15 into 150 over 7 years. Kind of steep.

[@dELTA13579111315]

@@bretterry8356 that's the price of being a criminal. We shouldn't be treating them nicely. They're being punished for a reason, might as well make the punishment an actual punishment instead of kindly asking for years for essentially 2 cups of coffee

[@chriscos123]

"Are you sitting comfortably? Well sit properly!" Needs to be Lindy's catch phrase

[@franciscomaia3299]

And the thing is that comfort doesnt mean properly... I even sit with my back straight when he said that :P

[@amanko1357]

It's nearly been another 6 years since this video. Did you get the £15 yet?

[@madisonxyz9887]

amanko13 I wanna know too lol

[@CeeKayz0rz]

Don't keep us in suspense, Mr. Beige!! Did you get your 15 pound yet!? D:

[@CreeperInWaiting]

LINDYBEIGE! Tell us already!

[@GeeksThroughoutTime]

I need to know, in case I decide to move from Canada to England to take up a career stealing bikes.

[@LocalDiscordCatgirl]

+Lindybeige did you get the £15?

[@HeatherSpoonheim]

Assuming the bike is worth more than £15, it sounds like a profitable venture.

[@mc_pyro5269]

+Heather Spoonheim if you get away with the bike you don't pay the 15 but if you pay the 15 you don't get the bike. How profitable it is depends on your success rate.

[@adamcommenting7848]

+Mc_Pyro Yea, but if you did it at night, and cooperated with a friend, and had a big truck. Well, you could probably steal 20 bikes per night. Then you drive the truckloads of bicycles to Poland, where no questions are asked. You may never even get caught, if you are smart about it.

[@mc_pyro5269]

+Adam Commenting Now you are splitting the profits and paying for gas to drive to Poland and driving around looking for bikes to steal why not take the people and their bikes to Poland you can sell bikes and kidneys then you will make some real money

[@adamcommenting7848]

Mc_Pyro You could do that, but then things might start getting messy. When a bike is stolen, the police just write it down, and they do nothing more to solve the "who stole mr. Pyro's bicycle? case". But kidnapping on the other hand, is on the top of their to do list, up there with murder, big drug cartels etc. The police is very good at using their ressources and tracking down the criminal, when it comes to kidnappings. Then I would say it stops being worth the risk for the thieves. You also gotta remember that most thieves are humans too. They have a limit on what they want to do, and human trafficking might be too much for them. On the other hand, just because they are "humans" doesn't mean they shouldn't get the punishment they deserve.

[@RealCadde]

You have to remember that this was an ATTEMPTED theft of a bike. Not a successful one.

[@AlexLaw_Qld]

Can you negotiate non-cash compensation, like a day following you around with a pair of half coconuts carrying a heavy backpack and answering to Patsy? After you get you armour of course...

[@sm901ftw]

Alternatively, is he trained as a Minstrel?

[@AlexLaw_Qld]

And we were forced to eat Robin's minstrels There was much rejoicing.

[@LeviForWaifu]

Cruel and unusual punishment? Has Lloyd gone too far?!

[@TheRealJoni]

15 pounds I paid more money when I was late with a public library book.

[@graceygrumble]

Top tip - Say you have lost the book. The fine for the loss is almost always far less than the fine for being late in returning it. Pop in the next day and return the book... surreptitiously, obviously. My brother found this out, many years ago, after he had lost a library book whilst on holiday and then forgot to inform the library of the loss, after returning. (UK)

[@Jesses001]

That reminds me of something that happened at work. While I was out having surgery, I had to send my work some money to keep my insurance current. Somehow, they did not manage to get $0.03 of my $180.00 payment to the insurance company. So many months later they called me into the office. They had me sign papers saying I did not pay the $0.03, and that I agree to have it deducted from my pay. I am sure the paperwork cost more than the $0.03 they lost.

[@NCaradoc2008]

Actually the time they spent calling you into the office and having you sign the paper would have cost them a damn sight more than (ah, where's the dollar sign?)... ...3 cents.

[@CookieDynamics]

Can you imagine if you decided to go to court to settle the case? hahahah

[@Jesses001]

Cookie Dynamics That would had been hilarious. Since I made this comment they fired me by the way. Some kid can do my job for less...of course he does not have years of metallurgy training and experience which I am sure will cost them more than they were paying me, but not my problem anymore, ha.

[@toussaintgervais8285]

I would take it to court! WE CAN BEAT THIS IN COURT!!

[@Longtack55]

Sounds simple enough to me and they needed your OK to make the deduction. There's a reason for nonsensical behaviour and/or bureaucracy and maybe it's because litigious anal-retentive arseholes want self-aggrandisment. I'm not referring to you but I worked in a Government institution where the "customers" had axes to grind and plenty of time to create expensive work and waste OUR money.

[@MartinWillett]

It wasn't a fine it was a compensation order, it was £15 not because that was the severity of the crime but because that was the value of the loss to innocent honest citizen Mr Lloyd. The thief would have received a sentence for the crime of attempted theft and criminal damage to the bike's securing lock (suspended imprisonment, a fine, community service order?) and *in addition* an order to compensate the victim for the value of the loss, presumably the cost of buying a replacement bike lock. The thief should have been told the cost of the appeal would be taken into consideration when it comes to parole or the granting of privileges within prison - if you cause the system a big cost for a petty reason the system will likely be petty in return.

[@Banzay27]

***** That's our collective western justice system. Sound, humane and progressive in theory. Mostly. Largely inefficient in practice.

[@byrongsmith]

This comment deserves more likes. The video is frankly silly and beneath Lindybeige's typical quality.

[@BoleDaPole]

That's because the " justice system" doesn't work, and most western civilized nations are turning towards " rehabilitation " over " serving justice". the mass shooter in one of the Scandinavian states only got 20 years for killing like 50 people and and is already eligible for parole, but he keeps sabatoging his own parole everytime.

[@MartinWillett]

@@BoleDaPole Do you think he would be better rehabilitated? How? How do you brainwash someone to believe in the opposite of what they do believe? It's a strange world we live in where it is considered immoral to try to make a person straight if they ask you to help but it is a moral duty to change a person's mind against their will if it suits the system.

[@stumbling]

Put him on gruel and single-ply toilet paper for a week and he'll have saved the £15. The first part of becoming reformed is taking responsibility for your actions and settling your debts.

[@nutcrackit7396]

i agree. wtf is with governments today and spending more then what is necessary to keep prisoners alive and away from anything they could steal and anyone they could harm. citizens have rights. prisoners are not citizens. they broke the law and are no longer part of society.

[@agustinl2302]

@@nutcrackit7396 It's called a reformative system. It's meant to turn criminals into honest citizens, and it's the current system in most Western countries (most of Europe, Canada, Uruguay, I assume Australia and New Zealand but I'm not sure). There will of course be criminals who will never be rehabilitated, but they're supposed to be an exception. What you describe is a different system, maybe not even a punitive one, but simply one that isolates the threat while being as cheap as possible. On the long term though, considering how most of those prisoners will remain there for their whole lives (since the second they're out they'll steal again), its cost is probably far higher than what you expect.

[@xRiseAndFall.]

@@nutcrackit7396 please stay in america where you can have poorly treated prisoners relapse right out of the prison door. We dont want that shit in europe

[@JohnDOE-tc2jc]

@@xRiseAndFall. yeah our prison system is trash

[@BillyJoe1305]

I don't care if you are in dire financial straights and bankruptcy, you damage another man's property you should have to provide compensation.

[@selderane]

The way the justice system works is insane: If the thief hit you while riding a bike you'd be able to sue for damages. But since he, instead, aggrieved the state, by damaging your property, he has to pay the state. How does that make you whole? You're still out a lock.

[@justgot2go4now]

15 pounds for attempting to steal a bike? Well that's stupid. In Los Angeles, California parking your car in a spot at the wrong time of day nets you a very nice and considerate fine of $85 (about 59 pounds) issued in a red envelope.

[@threemoo]

Oh yeah, when it comes to us non-criminals, the fines are insane here in the UK! If you park in car park the same as you said, we get the same hit of stupid amount of money... Except what they do is actually look specifically for cars that are close to end of time, they wait there until the clock goes a second past the deadline then book you, and some were even found to have been putting the fine on the car BEFORE time because they assume you're not actually going to make it! It's basically illegal how they actually deal with it!

[@justgot2go4now]

threemoo oh nice to know american cities aren't the only one's who are money grabbers. I don't know if you can dispute a ticket in the U.K. but in the U.S. you can. Here in the U.S. if the wrong date or time or make of car is posted on a ticket it is void. So if the police were to give you a parking ticket before time was up you could dispute it and more often than not you won't have to pay.

[@TealJosh]

It's same everywhere. Here in Finland in a small countryside village, there's a small kiosk. Dare to leave your car without parking clock for 15 mins and it gets fined.

[@MW-qt9ts]

Fairly certain the 15 is to be payed for damages to his lock, I'm sure the thief has an altogether different fine to pay for the crime.

[@genericpersonx333]

Fines are more about revenue production for government than discouraging bad behavior. If fines were about stopping crimes, then they would all represent a significant percentage of the average income. Fines in ancient times were measured in ounces of species, silver or gold, a huge amount of money for the time. Mind, you could literally buy your way out of murder in some societies, but only by spending many years of income. Crime doesn't pay enough for fines to be about stopping crimes.

[@MongyBongy]

This story in america. "guard i wanna file an appeal." "fuck off"

[@GS-zx1kk]

We don't negotiate with terrorists

[@macmcleod1188]

Also... "guard I need water" (kept locked in his cell begging) (until the guy literally died of thirst)

[@MongyBongy]

"I need water" "put a rag over your face"

[@oscarfellows6709]

Mac Mcleod Prisoner: Guard, I need water *Is water boarded*

[@StoutProper]

Chris Windham why do they need guns? they're not pussies like yank cops who shout unarmed citizens and think they're all judge dredd. If a criminal needs catching, they catch him.if he resists arrest, they beat him round the head until he stops resisting. simple

[@mch158]

If someone wants the benefits of a civilised society they must act civilised in that society.

[@Longtack55]

A narcissist doesn't consider that as it's ALL about their wants.

[@adriandreamwalker1027]

Only armed people convince others to act civilised. Anywhere you aren't allowed to be armed you are just a subject, not a citizen. Citizens make cities civilized, subjects survive the slow destruction of a decadent civilization. Violence exists for the people who doesn't consider anything outside their own skin (narcissists do feel pain thank goodness). To believe all people are reasonable is as factually based as Santa Claus.

[@nagualdesign]

@@adriandreamwalker1027 😆 You Texans crack me up!

[@adriandreamwalker1027]

@@nagualdesign That's where I'm going as soon as I can! 😆 I'm from Chile, our flag is almost identical to Texas' funnily enough. In my country we can't carry, only have the guns inside the house. Therefore we have somewhat safe homes, but crime in the streets is bad. I wish someone here would see the obvious correlation!

[@nagualdesign]

@@adriandreamwalker1027 Have you ever considered that the availability of guns is a contributing factor in crime? In the UK getting hold of a gun is extremely difficult, and gun crime is not a major problem.

[@Danny.._]

you should demand interest

[@tomuhawk96]

ah yes £15.01

[@Liggliluff]

@@tomuhawk96 Are you trying to ruin that man's life with that high interest?!

[@sikofu2]

As a former prison guard I have a few assumptions here. 1. The 15 pounds are compensation for the damage he caused to your lock. 2. If British prisons are similar to American prisons on the commissary system then 15 pounds is a huge deal since they probably don't allow more than 45 or so to be added to his books a month. 3. He probably had someone add money to his books and got a letter saying 15 pounds of it was being held for restitution to a former victim and is appealing it since he has nothing better to do and that's a lot of money to an inmate. 4. Or I could be wrong.

[@chrissekely]

So...let him only get 30 for one month. He's in prison and things should be difficult for him.

[@drizzt7dourden7]

+Kahlas also he had OVER 6 YEARS TO PAY

[@sikofu2]

6 years of their being no penalty for not paying. Put yourself in the mind of a criminal. If you have money, and there is no penalty for you not giving some of that money to someone you owe it to, do you ever pay that debt?

[@stinkyfinn6977]

Kahlas it is possible this happnd , as fines and court cost are taken from canteen money and prisoners private cash, but only certain types of costs

[@IncredibleMD]

He shouldn't have been allowed to appeal the compensation order n the first place. 15 pounds is a huge deal? GOOD. Maybe that'll hammer home that you can't steal someone else's stuff.

[@orrebiff]

in sweden an inmates meal is more expensive the a school lunch

[@Cythil]

Tjorre B I am not sure one should lower the standards for the meal for intern. But I do know that one should darn raise it for the kids! Well at least in some communes (or municipality if you prefer) they have good food as I understand it. But still. Raise the darn standards overall!

[@simping4jesus]

Tjorre B Well, since the guards can basically leave the whole prison unlocked and the worst the inmates do is bake cookies, I guess the expenses paid off :p In all seriousness, the expense makes sense if we're talking a full day's meal for an adult vs lunch for a child. I don't know how much it's different in Sweden, but in Denmark most schools don't serve lunch and they're funded by the municipality, whereas prisons are funded by the state (I think).

[@Cythil]

Zappy99 Yeah is the same way in Sweden. It the municipality that funds schools. (Well except universities and such. But you have to have a lucky day if you get a free meal then.) You are correct that adults simply needs more food to function then kids. So even if the quality was equal the prison meals would cost more per person. I guess the reason why many Swedes dislike it is simply because the meals in most schools are pretty darn poor. Not all schools mind you. Some municipalities do see the value of a good meal for kids in schools.

[@1bol1]

Tjorre B Källa? Source?

[@simping4jesus]

Tjorre B What.

[@DaneStolthed]

Agreed, the abbreviation need to be in CAPS!

[@TheToXeye]

+DaneStolthed But Lloyd got rid of his caps lock key...

[@DaneStolthed]

+ToXeye What? When?

[@dogvom]

+DaneStolthed Don't panic, he can still make caps! He just has to depress the shift key for each letter.

[@cgaccount3669]

In caps it refers to a Canadian navy ship

[@MrBeiragua]

It's been so long I have heard opinions like these. My country has lost all its teeth...

[@SwitchFeathers]

Also, I got a $60 AUD fine (£37-abouts in today's money) for parking my car once... Because it was facing the wrong direction. *On my own lawn.*

[@Khetamine]

That's a whopping £20 and 1 pence ajusted to infation from 2005. This fiend shall meet the unforgiving and merciless hand of justice for this great crime.

[@CarlStreet]

Your on screen notation regarding number of mentions is absolute presentation genius!

[@CarlStreet]

+Anonymous surfer One of the hardest things to maintain is audience attention. Creating a video over a fairly plain vanilla topic; yet keeping their attention focused though what is called a "resetting" technique as original as this is an achievement.

[@claverhouse1]

There is something wrong here. What's wrong is that an apparently intelligent man cannot comprehend the difference between a fine and a compensation order, despite reading the letter out loud. He was not "fined" £15 for the offence, the penalty imposed included a compensation order of £15 - compensation orders are almost always based on the assessment of loss given by the victim of the crime when they give a statement of complaint. You said the bike was worth very little - and he did not in fact manage to steal it - but that he damaged the lock. Which would have been worth about £15. So the court ordered that he recompense you IN ADDITION to whatever else they did to him.

[@MeldinX2]

+claverhouse1 True. But it's will still cost more to have to process to appeal such a small amount. Not even worth the effort.

[@claverhouse1]

+MeldinX2 "Appeal"? What appeal? You think he might say "No I don't want your compensation! Give it back to the offender, I may have lost out a £15 lock but I don't want repaid for it" ?

[@claverhouse1]

+Rambard It's NOT an appeal. Lindybeige is the only person calling it that but as I've said he is ignorant of the system and using his own words instead of those which apply. Repeatedly calling it a fine when it was not - he reads compensation order ( an order for restitution in addition to punishment penalties) then decides to change that to fine. There are fixed time limits for appeals and this case is years and years past the time any appeal would have been possible. And the letter says review, not appeal. Means Enquiry courts for people who are in arrears of payments happen all the time, they are not trials, do not involve police or witnesses going to court, he is only receiving the letter as this was compensation, not a fine, so the system is asking for an opinion, not for attendance at court. It is very common for people who are serving prison sentences, and therefore barred from receiving any income and being physically unable to pay financial penalties, to ask to have the amount of the financial penalty converted to prison time to serve at the same time as their other sentences. And the letter typeset is not to placate poor criminals as he says at the start - the court system deals with hundreds of thousands of non criminal cases as well, you know, including family and child welfare hearings.

[@Lemmywinks1989]

The justice system frustrates me enormously. I hope you went to rant at how truly ridiculous this situation was. Not enough people speak up at these things, so we just end up letting them slip by like its fine.

[@greyforge27]

sometimes Lloyd reminds me a lot of Hugh Laurie

[@faolan1686]

So I'm not the only who sees it.

[@TGNXAR]

Time for a little Fry and Lloyd?

[@keithwinget526]

"A bit of" you mean ;) Or were you changing it up for the sake of further novelty?

[@Cartoonman154]

Nar. He looks like Robert Llywelyn

[@bullwhipjohnson8247]

I was thinking Bertie Worcester.

[@khornetto]

Criminals should pay for the letters and the time they waste if they lose the trial or get denied their petition. That way you dont make it a "only rich people can have the right to ask for stuff" but still discourages people to keep asking ridiculous stuff. If you cant prove what you are asking for is fair, or right, you end paying even more.

[@MrKilroi]

H.M.C.S. Her/his Majesty's Canadian Ship

[@gosonegr]

+MrKilroi Or His Mom Counts Sheeps

[@ShadowFalcon]

+gosonegr Shush, we don't talk about the New Zealanders.

[@2ears1mouth786]

+gosonegr Sheep, not sheepS. Lloyd would be proud... ha.

[@adamcommenting7848]

+MrKilroi Her Majesty's Cecret Service?

[@TheShredworthy]

HMCS Her Majesty's Chip Shop

[@Jacob-yg7lz]

In the US they once had a sort of a "minimalist" prison, where they used army suplus tents and cots surrounded by a fence. They only fed them MREs(meals ready to eat). All in all it was one of the most cost efficient prisons ever run, until the prisoners sued because the MREs were "cruel and unusual punishment"

[@ArcanisUrriah]

Depends on your definition of cost efficient...... If you mean cheapest to run, then yes. Personally, I would consider the most cost effective prisons would be the ones that rehabilitate inmates so they don't have a return trip....

[@Frikgeek]

Some of these fines are just taking the piss. My sister's bike was stolen some 3 years ago and they found a guy trying to pawn it off in an open market. By the time he got to court the bike was almost completely ruined, the rear axle was broken beyond repair and both wheels were rather bent. The total repairs cost around 200€. The guy was fined 30€. Last year, a friend of mine was caught smoking marijuana and was fined 500€. So okay, doing something that harms only yourself(and even that's disputable) and nobody else is fined 500€ while stealing someone's property and causing 200€ in property damage is fined 30€. Great fucking laws EU!

[@D4ryl246]

Frikgeek and what exactly does your country's criminal code have to do with EU law? Any EU-member is free to set penalties for crimes like that, that's why they're different in all of Europe. I don't mind being "anti Europe", but don't make up stuff.

[@rodjenkins7009]

I thoroughly enjoyed your rant. And, you are entirely correct. The counter was a bonus!

[@nicholasthompson5253]

It's nearly been 9 years since this video. If he paid one pound a year he'd be celebrating at finally paying off the fine. Betcha you never hear back about that?

[@asdfg79660]

I think the purpose of all this is a shift from punishment to rehabilitation, changing lettering from something easily interpreted as threatening and spiteful, to something more calm. Keep in mind law breakers aren't evil people, they are people who, generally, have gotten a raw deal through either poor parenting, poor environment, or just poor genetics. I'm not saying any reason is excusable for say murdering someone, but if you understand the criminals circumstance, you can much more easily solve the problem for not just them but for the rest of society. The way it works, at least in America, is we put someone in prison with the intent of making the offender suffer, instead of trying to see how we can prevent further offenses. It makes about as much sense as a doctor prescribing a treatment before he's even diagnosed a symptom.

[@Arthiem]

Hey I'm not entirely sure you noticed but the letters on that were lowercase. also how much was this fine?

[@Liggliluff]

That's why crimes should be based on your own salary with a minimum amount. The issue with fines is that if they're too low, it's just the price to do something as a rich person, but if it's too high, it can ruin a poor person's life. Another issue with UK is that they have the fines printed in text, and that is hard to change as the value goes down. But having it tied to your salary, it will never get outdated. - The minimum amount can be tied to something that also increases over time, like the value that determines that you're poor if you go below it.

[@Nalothisal]

heh The twerp should be fined by HMCS for wasting their time on top of the 15 pounds he owes you.

[@ericdebord]

Love the show. So glad I found it.

[@mc_pyro5269]

Maybe he will get a hardship release for the burden of the £15.

[@artinyyk]

My father was a self employed black cab driver about ten years back. During one night shift three youths jumped onto the road and threw bricks through the back and left rear window, and at the body work. My father was out of work while the cab was being done and combined with the cost of repair really rather cost him a pretty penny. A number of months after the incident a letter came in to tell my father that they had all been caught and convicted, they were to pay a combined fine of £50 and one would even have to do 24 hours of community service for repeat offence.

[@SpazzyMcGee1337]

The cost isn't the point. The same system that handles small fines handles large fines and it would be costlier to create that much more complex a bureaucracy to have different systems for different amounts. Kind of late, but I wouldn't have bothered to show up and let the not so princely sum be waived.

[@halvars90]

SpazzyMcGee1337 well you could make a simple rule that no appeal can be made when the amount is lower than say 100£

[@rich1051414]

This sounds like an automatic process to me. Likely when their system is alerted to continue perusing a low priority fine, but that person is registered as imprisoned, they go ahead and wave the fines as long as no one objects. That note was just to notify you of it so you can choose whether or not the fine should be waved. I am sure a lot of people incarcerated have a lot of outstanding fines, and would actually relieve some of the backlog just clearing those incarcerated people's low priority fines out of their system.

[@RagingBlast2Fan]

I respect and admire your hypotheses in regards to history and archaeology. Your reasoning seems to make sense in your field of inquiry, but in so far as this subject goes, prisoners do not have more privilege than they should have, rather natural rights that they should have are taken away from them. In the U.S, if you serve in prison for the most silly of offenses, your right to vote is taken away from you during, and after you serve your sentence, often times. Do you find that this is fair? Well, if you think that what has been done in your situation is in principle giving prisoners extra privilege, I think that what I've mentioned evidently proves the opposite. Of course, it's Britain we're talking about so you might appeal to my remarks being irrelevant.

[@nfaguade]

Why should you have the right to decide who leads a country in which you decided to go _against_ its rules? Why committing another crime (and getting jailed for it) excludes you from another crime you committed before?

[@Bigassboya]

A prisoner is given the right for an opportunity to be absolved of a previous fine from a crime because he committed a worse one. That the real issue Lind puts up. Next time pay less attention to the title and more on what's actually being discussed.

[@Ronni3no2]

nfaguade Let me remind you that North Korea has rules.

[@nfaguade]

Mojo Risin ...ok?

[@alexeysaranchev6118]

I really hope that Lloyd said something like "I've waited for my 15 pounds for 6 years, I can wait untill he comes out" just for the laughs of knowing that when that criminal does his time and comes out, he'll still be seeing this reminder of his incompetence in thiefcraft.

[@sverkerino3338]

Why didn't you just make him rout with your Katana-bayoneted Spandau?

[@psikogeek]

Here, hmcs(1) is doing far more harm than the convict did while attempting to steal the bike. First, they spent more money on the appeal than the fine itself. A better use of resources would have been to use "petty cash" although the precedent from such could be quite bad. Second, the operating funds of hmcs are extracted by force in the form of taxes. Surely, some hmcs staff know that. Third, the collection of those taxes itself involves more work and, hence, more expense. There must be some multiplier such that the amount extracted from taxpayers is greater than the outlay. Fourth, the extraction of taxes is done by force which can be quite distressing to the victim and at least subjects him or her to an opportunity cost of lost time. In conclusion, the cost to society inflicted by hmcs is likely far greater. Heartless Monetary Conscience Suppressors. (1) intentionally lower case

[@_chew_]

How much was the fine, again?

[@Syerjchep]

+TheShadowOfMadness Sixteen pounds, I believe.

[@CorvusCorone68]

+Syerjchep was that a joke? cuz he said 15

[@fabiannymands3704]

+CorvusCorone68 was that a joke? I'm pretty sure it was PS: He said 17

[@counterstrifekid]

i hope you went to this, and said exactly this when asked to speak.

[@chopinbloc]

You should move to America. Not that our bureaucracy is any less insane, but we need more level headed, fiscally conservative folks like you.

[@leifvejby8023]

+The Chopping Block Sorry, but we need him too!

[@VicvicW]

He's ours! You can't 'ave 'im!

[@VicvicW]

Leon Stark Here we use an odd mix. I find myself varying between imperial and metric, depending on when it is useful to do so.

[@CATtostraphy]

+The Chopping Block too many hate groups would push him away. I want him here too but american citizens are too corrupt to be polite to forgeiners.

[@chopinbloc]

+CATtostraphy I missed the part where there were anti brit hate groups.

[@MondoJohnny]

In video games, you can pay your own bounty and be completely absolved of all guilt... Imagine if we had a system like that?

[@yui907]

Lindy, I can't help but notice that hmcs was dissolved and replaced a mere month after you posted this... I think you upset them.

[@UpToSpeedOnJaguar]

I do so enjoy your rants. I agree with you whole-heatedly.

[@jlandles]

I wish you'd turn comments off. There really is a lot of sound and fury, but not wisdom. Most of the time I'm self-disciplined enough just to watch the video (all of which I really, really quite enjoy), but sometimes I'm not... to my regret.

[@1ferrozoica]

Froosti Exactly! There is a certain finesse to combing KZbin comments for correct information... ;)

[@praevasc4299]

In most other countries such fines ultimately ends up added automatically to the taxes. And the tax agencies are really good at making sure one can't just slip away.

[@quix_9u19su]

In which Lloyd: a.) Requests that the logo of a government organization conform to his expectations. b.) Requests that rights not explicitly denied a convict by the statutes relevant to his crime are denied to him anyway, to show *strength*(!). c.) Requests that criminal stupidity be discouraged by the levying of additional fines for committing a crime in view of officers of the law, even though such stupidity results in decreased government expense.

[@Bedfordshireman]

Sounds like the beginning to a chapter in "The Name of the Rose".

[@JoshLathamTutorials]

Tell me exactly when he "requests" for such things. He makes no such "requests". He's merely stating his thoughts on the matter.

[@quix_9u19su]

0:00 to 4:38 The pleading in his eyes is palpable. Or are you seriously taking issue with my use of the word "request"? Perhaps you would have no problem with the word "advocate"? Lloyd doesn't need people to defend him saying, "Oh, but nowhere did he actually ask Her Majesty's Government, 'Oh please, pretty please put my beliefs into practice'. He was just sharing his thoughts!". He's not a politician, and I'm not his political opponent. I'm sorry, but the usual ill-natured back-and-forth that usually happens in the comment section of KZbin videos isn't going to happen here. I'm not looking to take part in any arguments.

[@JoshLathamTutorials]

QuixoticTendencies You're reading his eyes? You could make a living from that buddy. I think you need to lighten up.

[@quix_9u19su]

Josh Latham I always thought I would make a better Derren Brown than Derren Brown.

[@Varrik159]

It's also fairly silly that if someone does something wrong, they get fined (I think you mentioned it was £15), but, if they do a second thing wrong, they have the possibility of not having to pay the fine for the first offense because they're being punished for a second one.

[@Theodosius_fan]

This was 10 years ago did you get your 15 pounds? It also has been 17 years since he tried to steal your bike

[@0744401]

I think he should have been granted waiver just to avoid the expense of setting up a hearing.

[@MakerInMotion]

In Britain if the thief is Muslim, do you have to pay the fine to him? A brit will do anything to avoid being called a bigot after all.

[@dubsy1026]

Yes, which is why any Brit worth his salt would treat the situation with no bias and fine him all the same. Only an entitled bloody SJW would do that

[@KingDragon6815]

I would have loved to hear Lloyd's speech in court.

[@markkelly6259]

Citizen Beige. Your attitude has been noted by the authorities. The sort of thoughtcrime you are venting in this video indicate a dangerous variation from the approved way of thinking recommended by your betters. If you persist in this unauthorized and dangerous way of thinking, it is likely to lead to voting UKIP (in which case your children will be taken away from you) or moving to Texas which is chock full of people who share the improper thought processes that you are expounding. This video is from three years ago so hopefully you have presented yourself to a government reeducation center to have your mind made right. If the classes and counseling are insufficient, the National Health Service can provide you with electric shock therapy or lobotomy to remove these atavistic (and we must emphasize, unauthorized) patterns of thought. Or you can just move to Texas and if you do, look me up and I'll buy you a beer.

[@andymort4857]

You should not only demand payment of the £15, but also request additional compensation for the psychological damages of now having to relive the traumatic incident...

[@jaknife99]

Amerca is on the opposite of this spectrum, when it comes to the death penalty, it should be used on "men" such as the fellow who bombed those multi-cultural teenagers. Right now hes in a sweden jail and lives better than some law abiding people and whining about not having mature videogames. In extremes cases some people deserve to be fried like french fries.

[@nealramsey4439]

The minimum fine here in WV was $70 25yrs ago. That was for the court cost. So any fine was in addition to the court cost. It's went up quite a bit since then. That was just for a speeding ticket. So you didn't get off free even if they didn't fine you.

[@alberto5770]

Just so you know, while in prison if the inmate attends the 40 hours a week or activities offered he is PAID £20 and if his regime is enhanced (meaning he has been a good boy for a while) £30. These activities include attending the gym, library, IT classes, painting and decoration training, cooking classes (in order to upgrade and work in the kitchens), joinery... tailored to his interests by his case officer.

[@gonotgone1]

I worked for hmcs (and as it is now hmcts) and trust me your experience isn't unusual at all if the defendant builds up his financial orders from fines etc if he is on benefits or imprisoned he can have them written off so he doesn't have to pay anyone at all

[@damianclark1763]

An appeal lodged, I'm guessing, on his behalf by a court-appointed, state-funded solicitor. So - the cost of the arresting and desk officer's time for his initial and later arrests - the cost of his detention at police station(s), - the admin of those officers and other officers involved, - the CPS admin and time in reviewing of evidence and deciding to prosecute, - the court-appointed legal representation presumably present at is interviews, - the cost of a CPS prosecutor, -the judge, court staff, building costs of the hearings and the trial and - the allowances and costs of the Jury, - the costs of prisoner transport and interim custody if he was on remand in the meantime, - the cost of his detention in a prison, - the admin of filing the appeal, - the lawyers time in drafting the appeal, - the cost of correspondence with you, - the cost of the court staff, lawyers and building services for the appeal... all born by the tax payer, with no realistic hope of recouping it from the individual. And this is just one example of this... But it's a moral question, if we were to take steps to outlaw this kind of waste, we would necessarily forbid people from launching legitimate appeals and accessing legal advice and representation in the face of potentially wrongful arrest. So there are no easy answers for getting around these kinds of scenarios.

[@lindybeige]

@Doan84 He was fined 15 quid, and he did not go to prison (then). That I know, but it is true that he may also have been given some punishment I don't know about, such as community service or something.

[@Forkez]

When I feel sad I imagine he went to the hearing or the appeal or whatever it is, armed with rotten tomatoes and accompanied by an angry mob complete with a town crier, demanding his FIFTEEN POUNDS.

[@hastalamuertesiempre4895]

I recently received a bill for a court-mandated placement I went through when I was a minor. Or at least, I'd assume so, it says nothing but the amount and a "date of placement"...Odd feeling to get to pay a bill for something I neither wanted nor had a say in and which set back my education and general mental well-being back.

[@chippysteve4524]

That opening bit about sitting up straight was hilarious!

[@londiniumarmoury7037]

I think that was possibly the funniest intro to a video I've ever seen.

[@neilwilson5785]

OK, I agree with the nonsensical 15 pounds bit, but I thought the lowercase font was quite stylish. Also thought your Darth Vader voice lesson was good. That was in a different video, but I'm too lazy to bother posting there.

[@nagualdesign]

If you went to the hearing and demanded that the fine be paid he would likely have had to pay court costs too.

[@lord_leprechaun2989]

I feel what more likely happened was that the prisoner had other debts and just tried to appel all of the.

[@Noms_Chompsky]

I would go to his hearing and tell them that I'd pay 30 pounds just to ensure that his not paying the fines for his previous conviction remain outstanding in his criminal record.

[@Luraldir_Original]

Accounting for inflation, at the time of this video he actually owed you around £18.90 and now, in 2018 he owes you approx £22

[@Falney]

I would have gone to put my word in on it and point out the costs to the country for him to try and get out of a £15 fine. In 2008 the Average British prisoner got paid £9.60 a week, it would not take long to save up the £15 to pay off that fine since they pretty much have nothing to spend that money on. (I don't even know why they pay prisoners in the first place)

[@bsr6969]

Last I heard inmates in prisons {not jail} in the U.S. get $3.50 a week, but they have a commissary were the prices are jacked up to profit the Department of Corrections. They get the quarter dollar a day {roughly} because if they were paid absolutely nothing it could be viewed as repackaged slavery. The U.S. is the world leader in incarceration. It's a total scam, though I'm sure at least half the inmates probably did something to actually justify their incarceration. Examples: I knew a guy who called his girlfriend a bitch, she called the cops and he got 3 years for 'domestic violence'. Another guy I knew robbed a rich neighborhood {took it to trial were there are automatic 'sentence enhancements' if found guilty} and got 16 years, but with 'half-time' he only did 8 of them. He was 22 when convicted, and both these guys were black {not that the same wouldn't happen to anyone who couldn't afford a paid lawyer}. On the other hand I knew a guy who killed his wife in broad daylight in front of the world, took the deal from the D.A. and got 35 years rather then the 50 if he went to trial. He'll probably do 17-20 of them.

[@juhall]

This is a good argument for indentured servant hood ....term of indenture? Until the individual can pay 3x the amount of property stolen or vandalized. That would act as a deterrent

[@jabowa]

maybe they changed it to lower case to avoid confusing it with naming of Canadian ships, as they are all named Her Majesty's Canadian Ship (HMCS). Maybe? I could be completely wrong.

[@SwitchFeathers]

jokes on you, lindy. I spent this whole video reclining in my chair comfortably! your move.

[@bilkyasko]

The modern prison system in the UK was devised as primarily a place of reform. It amazes me that the idea of reforming in prisons in the UK was realised in the 19th Century, and yet some people today can't grasp the concept.

[@lindybeige]

@chashavko Sorry - I do tend to speak quickly and make few allowances for foreign viewers.

[@PedroOliveira-tq6zm]

Such a relic, this video has nearly half my age right now

[@TheDarkJok]

Oh Man, I wish every politician in Brazil would see this video

[@zippy5131]

Interesting to find out if Lindy added interest onto the £15.. which any other body would have. Missed out there. Plus if you waved the £15 how many of there fingers could you break??

[@mrmoth26]

I was lying and not sitting... But I wasn't lying properly, I looked like I fallen out of the 7th floor of a building.

[@TheManFromElBeasto]

£15 was a lot of money in 2004!

[@ndalby187]

How about 15 lashes in town square, sounds a bit more like a punishment. Here in the US, you can get 2-9 years in prison for that.

[@Treblaine]

Getting money from thieving guttersnipes is like getting blood from a stone, considering how much of their income is begotten nefariously or simply without legally required documentation it's easy for them to claim they can't pay, the state can't just use their powers to look in their bank account and take the money. It's all cash in hand I suppose the problem isn't so much whether the punishment fits the crime, but also whether the punishment fits the person.

[@plat1n_]

almost a decade later, we still dont know if he got his £15

[@markalexander774]

I am okay with being able to challenge the sentence you were given. The part that I am not okay with is a fine that small for theft. That small of a fine is not a deterrent, it is a sales tax on theft. If he was being fined like fifty thousand pounds, I could easily understand why he would be able to challenge that (and hopefully fail), and why that would be a deterrent against people stealing bikes, but fifteen is less than I have spent in some parking garages in the downtown of my city for a few hours.

[@deusvult6900]

3:28 I bet the bloke at the door was the 'criminal' and Lloyd disposed of the bastard quickly.

[@aquaman839]

Ineffective and wasteful govt... MIND BLOWN

[@mandolinic]

Maybe he has a string of unpaid fines, and this an appeal to consider all the outstanding ones. Yours is just one. Feel free to scrawl HMCS in large letters in red crayon at the top of the next letter you receive from them.

[@preuenthegreat518]

In America you can pay a weeks wages for driving to fast, in England you try to steal a bike, cause damages to the lock, and then maybe, just maybe, have to pay 15 pounds.

[@NathanK97]

HMCS should be printed in comic sans... nothing is less scary than comic sans... all lowercase too.... that will look nice and proper hmcs is comic sans font

[@DarkRaven4649]

Attempted theft and damage of property. I imagine the fine would have been steeper - maybe £20 - if he'd actually stolen the bike.

[@lawrencecollins7398]

In the US, the prisoners (we have more than most countries) often have a commissary account that their friends and family fill so that the prisoner can purchase cigarettes and candy bars and such. In many states, the Court can seize that money to pay for things like restitution. I bet your fellow had 15 quid in his canteen.

[@LemmingFNSR]

Attempted bicycle kidnapping? CRUCIFIXION! Greetings from the Antipodes