Pro Shooter with $500 Gun vs. Enthusiast with $5,000 Gun

[@zactanner5187]

Just my 2 cents but anybody that can draw and hit at 75 yds @ in 2 seconds is a bit more than an enthusiast

[@richardgarcia944]

True I can barley see past 25

[@txgunguy2766]

Jerry Michalek shoulder fired off hand a Barrett 50BMG and hit a balloon at 1000 yards after coming up from the low ready and aiming for less than 2 seconds. But, Jerry ain't exactly an amateur.

[@jayfreeman6900]

Right?!

[@thatcrackshit8199]

@@txgunguy2766 I've seen that clip. Jerry is an amazing shooter and a good character.

[@WyFoster]

@@txgunguy2766 Jerry, "Sniping is over rated."

[@thomasrosato3934]

If the definition of "enthusiast" is someone who can nail a 70 yd. shot with ANY pistol, regardless of quality/price, in under 2 seconds - I'm one step above an infant. WELL DONE!

[@GabrielManzanero]

Yeah no shit I’m not anywhere near there I gotta invest in a shooting course

[@pt6134]

My enthusiast level is not knowing there were $5,000 pistols

[@roscoep4850]

My enthusiast level is if you cant do this with a $500 glock 9mm first, you dont need a $5000 pistol. That being said I have run glocks just as fast in Practical comps.

[@blanket8452]

Only because I liked the gun when Demolition Ranch bought it, I researched the STI 2011. They were over 3 grand retail close to 2 years ago. I believe they’re more of a pro gun.

[@RickyTrey]

@@roscoep4850 thanks nobody asked

[@valerie80yearsago90]

Seriously lol. I could’ve sworn they were getting a really boujie AR.

[@shirothehero0609]

Bro, I just got my Laugo Alien after a 2 year wait and let me tell you - it's absolutely a $5000 pistol. LOL

[@counselingpsychology]

Took one look at Myles’ belt and knew he was more than an enthusiast.

[@ML-ks2lj]

That's what I was thinking, look at his ear protection too, he trains a little at the range

[@craigpalmer2330]

TH mentions the pistol cost $5k. “Enthusiast” also has a $5k handgun 🤨

[@bluewater82]

The point of this video is that a $500 pistol will serve you just fine.

[@HaloDude557]

That's enough to buy a Hipoint these days

[@1stAmendmentfukyoutube]

So will a basic car that has tires and starts

[@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595]

@@Madi-uj3tc 2022 is a sleeper for sure.

[@darinr9424]

@@Madi-uj3tc I've been eyeballing the canik pistols. Supposedly a whole lot of gun per dollar

[@mitchellmiller6644]

@@HaloDude557 yea Biden gun prices are fun 10 22 are going for 600 plus

[@martincolvill5453]

I'd like to see this run with a couple Hi-Points. Seriously. Not meant as a joke.

[@Dwendele]

Or even a Taurus.

[@jiml4987]

The 90's high point with fixed sights. I did enjoy my carbine a lot, it was the first I hit 10k rounds with. 2k of those were tracer rounds I mistakenly purchased.

[@thateffinguy2422]

Yeah thats a great idea! And i had a 40 cal carbine and i loved that gun

[@gmac8852]

You must really want to see Hi Point sell .

[@JohnDoe-qz1ql]

@@Dwendele Taurus Is high class compared to hi point. Well some of their older stuff I guess is a bit crappy.

[@neilreid2298]

The "amateur" on this vid is a pretty dang good one. To be even close, much less within .6 of a pro on a course is stellar performance. Fun vid and thanks.

[@LimitedGunnerGM]

I’m an old school USPSA GM, when I got bored shooting STI/SV I switched to Glock. I started having more fun competing with a cheap gun and not taking it so seriously. I like this comparison, proving something I’ve believed for over a decade. The shooter skill can compensate for a lack in gear.

[@dilo777]

Like my grandpappy always said "a poor craftsman blames his tools " it always comes down to the "craftsman"

[@aaron4820]

Where as a rich craftsman buys better tools.

[@forgalzz7]

There are crappy tools though ...

[@coollibra3644]

Definitely you work with you got!

[@silent1267]

China makes some crappy tools though lol

[@MmeHyraelle]

A good craftsman recognizes a bad tool and go fix it or get a good one :)

[@Teddy_______]

I was impressed at the 25 yard line. Y’all at 70 was crazy!

[@Reverend1776]

I'm not sure why this would be a surprise...fundamentals in play, almost every gun is still inherently more accurate than us!

[@sethrich5998]

I seriously think that statement just exists because of how poor most shooters are. Most factory service pistols group 2 - 4” from a ransom rest at 25 yards. It’s not that difficult of a benchmark to have the skill to shoot better than that with a sufficiently accurate pistol.

[@mitchellmiller6644]

@@sethrich5998 i mean its a pistol why are you using it past 25 yards if its throwing 2 to 4 inch groups you are good if the distance is farther then that grab a rifle not a pistol a 500 buck handgun in the hand of most shooters is as accurate as a 5k also you could upgrade that 500 buck handgun with a trigger and better sights and have less then 800 or so into it and it will be in most cases just as good as a 5k handgun

[@adamm.7055]

But you are always adding your error and the guns error. If I am a 4moa shooter and the gun is a 4moa gun that is 8moa. If i am a 4 moa and the gun is a 2moa that is 6moa. It is an additive problem. The more mechanically accurate the gun the better off you are.

[@Borderline5440]

@@adamm.7055 Another way to think of it is that both are limiting factors. An accurate gun is nothing without an accurate shooter and vice versa.

[@TheHumbleMarksman]

I built up a glock 43X with shield arms mags to be 20+1 rounds with a comp and dot and shot it at a USPSA club match in Open Minor from AIWB from concealment. I finished 9th in a field of 70 - which is not far from where I typically finish at that match (usually 4-6)

[@andrewcramer7214]

And a great series that was!

[@johnherian781]

I had the pleasure meeting Myles at the Tactical Performance Center handgun mastery two class in Colorado this year. Awsome dude.

[@TacticalHyve]

We'll let him know you left the comment. Thanks!

[@94kong94]

I would’ve liked to see them switch guns and run it again.

[@alexs1972]

That was fun to watch. Now try it with Jerry Miculek and give him a snub nose 22lr

[@owenbock5883]

and he will still put the round through a lifesaver at 25 yards...

[@TheJesse1011]

How you gonna give Jerry the advantage like that 😅

[@bassault]

No give him a .500 magnum

[@larryayres7412]

That is THE MAN, John Browning had in mind when he was designing guns !!!!!!!!!

[@jh8338]

JM is a one-trick shotshell pony.

[@donprater6944]

Buy what you can afford, but training is the only way you get good.

[@TurdFergusson318]

I miss being able to train with 9mm.

[@doddgarger6806]

Can't believe 22lr is at the old 9mm prices

[@goshawk4340]

Supply and demand.

[@AdamMalcolm96]

You guys drove up Canada's ammo prices! It go so bad down there that people had to raise their prices up here. At least we can still get it though...

[@mrwashur1991]

@@AdamMalcolm96 lol I thought they took all your guns.

[@papalog08]

I walked into a store and bought 3 100 rd boxes for $32 each the other day. Just fmj brass, but decent price for plinking.

[@brianwalters3314]

I'd like to see the pro with a $5k gun vs same pro with $500 gun on a second run. That would give us something to compare. Either way, looked like you both were having fun

[@blakedavis4262]

"Just have a flashlight on there" -- this is huge, the amount of recoil reduction using a flashlight cannot be understated. Would like to see him run the P320 without the light in a similar competition.

[@jayblemsin4226]

Oh get over it. Thats nothing

[@tonyvillena1293]

Except he shot one shot recoil has nothing to do when you take one shot

[@7curiogeo]

Now this was a good showing and proved a point to me. Its the man and training not always the gun. Take away? training.

[@nwchamp321]

Great point!

[@anonypersona3189]

Yeah, everyone realizes no amount of money (invested into a gun) can buy skill. However, it is "easier" with a tricked out gun.

[@-John-Doe-]

@@anonypersona3189 It also puts procurement and obsolescence into perspective. Training is expensive. Not only in materials but manhours. If an average joe can outperform a professional, then that platform is well worth the investment. If someone thinks they can outshoot a modern rifle with a bolt action, then they're going to be sorely mistaken. Likewise with a revolver.

[@dolphincliffs8864]

I like to use "crappy" guns and get good with those and go from there.

[@mitchellmiller6644]

@@-John-Doe- depends ill take my bolt action at range over a modern rifle all day long my rifle is sub moa at a mile also it doesnt matter if you have a 50k gun if you dont train you will suck training is 100x more important then how expensive a platform

[@IslandInsanity]

This novice dude ain’t so novice! Lol

[@stevehodgkins8801]

The gun helps, but the training is the ultimate equalizer.

[@wireman4029]

I'd be afraid to shoot a $5,000 gun. I'd have to frame it and hang it on my wall.

[@Joe_Farewell]

Not when you start shooting it! It’s so nice to run and it’s MADE to shoot.

[@TacticalHyve]

Guess who had to buy the Nemesis...lol

[@Joe_Farewell]

@@TacticalHyve did you at least use my code to get the free mag with it?

[@TacticalHyve]

Damn! Got it from a dealer in IL who just received it from Atlas. Don't think the code applies?

[@graynotescartridgebox]

@@TacticalHyve no Chaos?

[@theblade110]

You made the algorithm Joe congratulations! Front page of KZbin!

[@TacticalHyve]

🎉

[@seanmadden6683]

First time I’ve seen this channel and I’ve followed gun channels for years. You must be doing something right if KZbin isn’t suggesting this content. Glad to find you and about to binge some videos. Thanks for posting.

[@poja82]

@@seanmadden6683 Same here

[@slimjim7411]

Not surprised like most things competition related it's a lot of money for a little edge.

[@otetechie]

Things like power factor matter.

[@chrisf6934]

would love to see a pro vs. a 200 round a year shooter. both run the course twice, once with the 5k and once with a budget pistol. That would really demonstrate that the best way to buy skill is to use that money on ammo

[@johnjohnson5496]

I love the palm trees at your range, looks awesome! Also I'm not sure if you guys realize how incredible your eyesight is - I find it hard to see my metal targets at 75 yards, and I'm a professional pilot. Now being able to line up a sight picture over that target in two seconds, well, that's downright impressive lol

[@aaron4820]

This was fun but it'd be great to see him run the final stage again with his Hyperion and compare it to his P320 time.

[@bronxwarrior319]

I was impressed with both of you guy's

[@TacticalHyve]

Haha! Thanks. I'm sure both would like to do it again, and do it better!

[@Joe_Farewell]

@@TacticalHyve Always better

[@mikekazan3538]

Me at 75 yards with the best pistol and sights in the world: pew pew.... Two days later: pew, pew... let me try again, let me try again... lol 😆

[@crazeeaz]

I gonna need a bigger target.

[@Borderline5440]

At 3:55, that pistol was already on its way to being re-holstered before the bullet reached the target. Insanity.

[@Mrgunsngear]

Thanks

[@JA-oo9qp]

Every damn comment

[@eagleone5456]

@@JA-oo9qp right, or its "nice" lol

[@baba98052]

The 320 is amazingly accurate right out of box.

[@The1Mentalist]

This is dumb, they're both excellent shooters. You should do that with a random person at a range who owns a Glock G17

[@cornydad]

It would be interesting to have Joe shoot various courses of fire with the 2 guns, randomizing which is shot first. Also have Myles do the same.

[@Vesper778]

Enthusiast is a big understatement. You shoot like a pro!

[@Jay_Sullivan]

This is a lot different than an F1 driver in a Civic vs an enthusiast in a Porsche.

[@MrT13]

Lol hardly seems fair. I’m still pretty sure lance armstrong can beat me on a Walmart huffy even if I had his bike... lol

[@braxtonmensah2614]

lol

[@mtraz366]

This is a cool idea. Proves that you can’t buy skill. Buy what you can afford and train train train. Get good with what you got!!!

[@TacticalHyve]

Absolutely!

[@Joe_Farewell]

You got it! The nice gun certainly gives you an edge but it definitely always comes back to training.

[@johnjacob688]

That's why I never waste my money on super high end stuff unless I could take advantage it.

[@richardbutterspread353]

Hitting that target at 40 yards is no joke

[@snowflakecuntreeman3947]

Yeh, I'm currently half way there

[@gregggibson3109]

Another enjoyable and informative video! I’m an absolute believer in Joe’s observation demonstrated here, it’s not the firearm, it’s the shooter.

[@darioaliaga3220]

Would be nice to see the same shooter with the Sig vs Atlas. Fun video, thanks

[@tu_arandano]

Would have loved to see it switched to see how the enthusiast works with the stock gun and vice versa. Overall great stuff.

[@TacticalHyve]

We should have done that!

[@Joe_Farewell]

Next time for sure!

[@AARON10B]

I was thinking the same thing. Even if Joe just ran through the 3 courses of fire with his Atlas, I think that would show where the differences are with the gun. Since it’d be the same person running the same courses with the stock and race gun. Great video though.

[@jep1st]

My instructor always says that it doesn't matter which gun you have if you don't master the basics. A good gun will shine once you gain that base level of expertise and that can take years.

[@ghosthammer7804]

What is steel compared to the hand that wields it? -Thulsa Doom

[@TacticalHyve]

Boom!

[@TheJustJoe]

James earl Jones, great quote and movie! 😀

[@ML-ks2lj]

I heard an instructor say before "it's not the gun, period"

[@KoreyMacGill]

Nice to know bullets work as long as they get smacked hard enough and have a housing to keep you safe.

[@dtna]

Never had a $5K handgun. But, changing to Novak or Heinie sights 10 years ago on my 1911s and Glocks made a big difference.

[@chewminem2044]

Man that range looks fun!

[@TacticalHyve]

He's lucky to have it!

[@Joe_Farewell]

It really is nice to have. 😂

[@cmason87]

@@TacticalHyve everyone's dream

[@blaynemacpherson8519]

I would like to see the professional run the course with the $5000 pistol and see what he does.

[@Schiebi86]

I saw an older dude (50-60) with an old enfield jungle carbine at a 300m/328y (iron sight only) competion. He won, i placed 97 of 150. He really impressed me

[@alanpadgett5868]

I absolutely enjoy sharpening my skills and target practicing............but had to cease until I see more Ammo Surplus available. I now tend to stock pile any reasonably priced ammo that I can find.

[@ACGBLR]

It would be interesting on showing them run the courses with the handguns switched. And compare each of the their times. Great video, good emphasis on training!

[@TacticalHyve]

Actually a good idea! We should have done that!

[@Joe_Farewell]

I love it... I might set something like that up and try running it back to back.

[@ACGBLR]

Sorry guys, I see that others have commented this as well, I didn’t mean to repeat. I really enjoyed the video and now subscribed to both of your channels.

[@sofakingtactical5710]

Watching this makes me want to make a 9PM trip to the range

[@TenaciousTentacruel]

Good context on a committed enthusiast vs a top level competitor

[@flyboy8752]

IMHO, as long as your weapon system is reliable, I feel that money is almost always better spent on training than on fancy weapons and upgrades (though I am a big proponent of weapon mounted lights and am also a relatively new convert to red dot on my pistol, which I gotta admit is pretty awesome - especially for the longer shots)

[@billyhollis5738]

You look so cool dropping the mag and putting it back in

[@nbonner75]

To be fair, the Sig P320 is one of the more accurate production guns on the market today (probably top 5). These were $500 guns 5 years ago but you’d be hard pressed to find one now under $700 (kind of splitting hairs I know but...)

[@tatoo190]

I’d love to see another video like this but with a stock Hyperion & an upgraded/accessorized Sig

[@jamesmorrison7847]

The law of diminishing returns kicks in. I've seen good 1911 shooters manage to get great scores with a $500 Rock Island 45 and guys with megabuck Dan Wesson customs that cost 10 times as much do no better.

[@darkdre7]

Awesome video I have the Sig p320AXG but I just purchased the Athena

[@kaioken1110]

Works for a professional training company….but is an enthusiast. Mad bro

[@actionjksn]

And also you can take something like that $500 gun and do a trigger job on it, there's usually a couple good KZbin videos showing how. And then a a sight upgrade and it's going to perform pretty well.

[@roryross3878]

I think we all expected these results, t Myles was a good sport and performed very well.

[@jb2009BCT]

Great content as usual, keep em coming

[@davidgiles4681]

WWII proved an interesting fact - sometimes it is not the tool but the tool user that creates superiority. The Zero was an excellent plane in the mid to late 30's. It outclassed most of the planes in the Pacific theater. The flying Tigers flew the p40 war hawk - a plane well past it's tactical prime. But each Tiger pilot had an incentive. They received some $500 per plane downed. The p40 pilots had to use different tactics. Eventually they got modern p51(s) and were absorbed into the Army Air Corps. But, the p40(s) kicked butt. In short, the Flying Tigers were flying Mercenaries for China and had a professional (monetary) incentive to fly better (with inferior tools). While a more sophisticated tool does help, I can place same said tool in a person's hand (who is not a professional shooter) and said person will not shoot as well.

[@Justin031296]

Some people cant hit a silhouette at 75 yards with a rifle. 75 yards with any handgun is a good shot. Even better under time.

[@charliebrownsd]

I think the Texas Star is a matter of experience, if I haven't shot a moving target and then you are timing me for the first time I'd be blasting away too. Overall both of these guys are good shooters and it was fun watching them run the drills! I think Myles should get into competitive pistol shooting, he did really well for an amateur!

[@Secondadmendment]

When it comes to semi automatic pistols it really doesn’t matter that much Some come with spots for attachments and better sights but for the most part a standard glock 17 is just at good as any other pistol

[@JanO209]

As other's have stated. This "enthusiast" is QUITTTTEEEE a bit better than your average enthusiast. But it really drives home the point, that though a nice gun can make a difference, in the end, it's training and dedication that will get one to shoot better. I've seen what Ben Stoeger one of the GOATs of the shooting world can do with a stock Beretta, so in the end, just go out there, train, practice, dry fire, and compete.

[@pistolgrips]

Old video but I trained with an organization whose mantra was “any gun will do if you will do” and for me, that holds true. A Glock 17 or a Sig P365 will both perform equally given my level of training and experience. That said - a Hyperion in my hands will allow me to perform “better”- faster split times, better accuracy at distance, generally better control overall. I think this holds true for most everyone. The weight and balance of a hand fitted gun, a 2lb. trigger, finely tuned fire control parts, a true match grade barrel, etc. absolutely should make a difference. I have a couple of high end guns and I definitely shoot them “better” (see above “better”) than my stock Gen4 17 or comparable model platform, polymer or steel frame gun. Differences may not be overwhelming but again- split times, accuracy at distance, etc is better with higher end models. If this isn’t true, then why would the world’s best shooters - guys like Taran or Jerry or Joe or pick one - choose to compete with them? It took me many years of thinking “I’ll never spend $3500. on a pistol” till I shot a friend’s. I ordered one the next day. Just my two cents.

[@OOV7799]

Interesting video. But difficult to gauge which is a bigger factor - the gun or the shooter.

[@grandvisiontech2349]

What is the audio setup?? SOUNDS GREAT OUTSIDE...

[@wb5mgr]

I pretty regularly stretch my M&P Pro Series out to 75 yards which is the limit of our pistol range. Every trip I try to run a box of 50 at that range on a C-Zone. My MK III Target will reach out to 75Y pretty easy as well. It really does not take a $1k+ gun to be accurate, it takes practice with a specific gun.

[@soujrnr]

This was very eye-opening for me. I was under the impression (falsely, obviously) that the difference in quality/price betwixt those two pistols would really show in the final results. Well, it showed, but totally contrary to what I've always believed, and what I expected in this competition. My presuppositions were wrong. I REALLY appreciate the final words about how it's the SHOOTER, and not the tool, that is where the focus needs to be, and I also gleaned that I can be a great shooter too, as I use my gun regularly, and become comfortable with it. My biggest hurdle right now is my LASIK surgery. I have one eye for distance, and one eye for close-up, and it wreaks havoc on my aiming and accuracy. Hell, I couldn't even SEE the target at 75 yards; much less hit the darn thing. Well, OK; that's an exaggeration. I could see it, but I couldn't hit it. I'd love to find a local instructor who I could work with to help me overcome this problem.

[@poja82]

Those shots at 75 yards...man those two are GOOD SHOTS

[@danw7156]

I ve seen a lot of shooters keep buying new guns, but never taking the time to train to get any better...”if I only had a better gun...”.

[@The_Original_Brad_Miller]

@Dan W That applies to golfers and their clubs too... lol

[@johnharris6655]

Reminds me of the guy on the softball team with the 200 dollar bat and the .200 batting average.

[@awokeone7997]

Good and very interesting video. Shows to prove that hard work pays off regardless of the tool.

[@TacticalHyve]

Yes it does!

[@spencercook4546]

@3:32 dudes shot hits the steel same time the shell casing bounced off your head lol

[@williammarkham7598]

Lol thanks for pointing that out, was worth a laugh

[@timothykerr9047]

Liked the video. You guys looked like you're having fun. The gun you use when it's the wee hours of the night is the gun you can get rid of after using it. I don't think you would want to melt down a $5000 pistol. Also, never use sights in close combat. The best operatives don't. It's point & shoot. Then charge at the assailant& take them down.

[@granitejeepc3651]

My guns are for shooting things not competition so I'm good with $750 spent on standard gun with good sights and holster and then spending $4250 on ammo and training.

[@AntDknator]

Good priorities. Even though I love varieties of firearm, I only a few that I am shooting to spend more on ammo/training

[@parkvoranaparit1873]

Imagine giving a pair of cheap soccer boots to a professional soccer player and an expensive pair of soccer boots to an enthusiast. That's what we are witnessing right now. Now, this enthusiast is actually good, might as well turn pro 🤣

[@scotthix2926]

What is the scoring critieria on the course? Alpha, bravo?, charlie, mike.

[@bshadrick]

I saw him hitting those targets and thought dang! That great for an 8 inch target. Then I saw the torso in the bottom left corner. I feel better now.

[@bootchumbley1766]

How about switching and seeing if any differences in your performance

[@Joe___R]

I would imagine it would have been a lot closer if the enthusiast was running an open class pistol with an optic.

[@richardcrowell284]

Unfortunately we have a three pound trigger pull requirement in Australia.

[@MarineVeteran99]

I understand using the same gun in practice for competition. I prefer shooting different guns in combat tactical shooting practice. You never know what you'll be armed with in what emergency.

[@cnf6045]

Reminds me of the 3 gun saying...‘can’t buy skill’

[@redrock425]

My first tip would be learn to shoot slow and accurate on a low recoil calibre. Once you master that increase your speed. When you can shoot fast and accurate move up in power. If you can't shoot well going slow you'll never shoot well going fast.

[@adampizana6040]

Love Myles shirt.. and gun.. here i am thinking dropping 600 on a pistol is much.. both these guys dropped 5k... daaamn.

[@retekfekete7807]

Please try this with the P9-RC (Browning Highpower modified clone)... I really want to see it...

[@andrewcreating]

Bro Myles you can compete for sure!

[@Swampytheroot]

Y'all both been toying around and are gifted with young eyes. I struggle to focus anymore. Age is a ruthless opponent

[@TacticalHyve]

Age definitely affects vision. Myles is 42 and finds it difficult shooting far targets.

[@bshadrick]

@@TacticalHyve Im 67 and find it difficult shooting close targets.....

[@BadGuyDennis]

As a non-native English speaker, my understand we have entry level or newbies, amateur and professional to describe the level of proficiency on a activity. While enthusiast is to describe the attitude of a person on enjoying and loving of certain thing. For me, you both are professional shooters and also shooting enthusiasts

[@iketurner1124]

Your English is more proficient than most natives. Nice work friend.

[@larryayres7412]

Nice follow up !!!!!!!!!

[@garychillingworth]

For a test like this, you need to both run with the cheep gun, then both with expensive to give you a base line. Then do the test. The Texas star is more about experience in shooting it then the kit.

[@TacticalHyve]

We definitely should have had them switch guns...we filmed it spontaneously and didn't really plan anything.

[@tones9_6]

When you said enthusiast I did not think he would be the one to provide the 5k gun

[@jasonvining8108]

Umm just seen a stock p320 at the gun store with a 3k price tag.. sitting next to a 226 sig for 1.000. Crazy how in a shortage people will pay stupid amounts because that’s what the military chose. Where did u find the 320 for 500 ?