Pro Wrestling | Soccer | Volleyball retrospective: Amazon delivers pain | NES Works

[@professors84]

One thing I like how PW is how it has an animated crowd, commentates, ref and even a camera man...tons of games that came out after this didn’t even have that

[@jasonblalock4429]

Yeah, that was genuinely an impressive level of detail for 1987. And we're not talking about a system with a lot of memory or CPU time to spare. Having that many totally "unnecessary" AI-powered animated characters onscreen would have been very costly, in terms of resources. But, of course, it also gives it SO MUCH extra flavor as a wrestling game by having all the visual gimmicks.

[@Zeffarian]

I definitely remember that standing out to me as a kid as well, especially the ref and camera man.

[@BleuSkiddew]

Rich from ReviewTechUSA brought me here from his video called: "Don't be a slave to KZbin or Any Job". He praised your content as "second to none".

[@GameBoyGuru]

Star Man forever! I loved this game as a kid, for a hot minute or two. A couple friends had it, and we’d have fun with occasional bouts in between other games. The pick up and play nature of Pro Wrestling was definitely a strong point.

[@FranzFerdinand76]

As a 10 year old playing against a friend, when you heard that Pro Wrestling music you knew shit was about to get real.

[@kyleolson8977]

I liked the Amazon's bite, but Starman and his Somersault Kick was my jam.

[@funkyweapon1981]

I liked how he used a fork, like Abdullah The Butcher.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

I'm guessing you two are fellow Starman users.

[@michaelsegal3558]

You’re right MUSULE came out a year before Pro Wrestling

[@Tubewings]

One thing that bugged me about NES "Soccer" is that Italy was not in the game, even though they were the defending World Cup champions at the time of its Japanese release. The teams available were the United States (which was in the middle of a four-decade World Cup drought at the time), Great Britain (which didn't really have a national football team, so I guess they're supposed to be England), France, West Germany (gotta love the Cold War), Brazil, Japan (who would not reach the World Cup until 1998), and Spain. I'm guessing USA and JPN were in because of their respective markets.

[@Bloxed]

Great Britain could also be an example of a team added due to the UK NES market. Even if it wasn’t out by 1985 (when Soccer originally released on Famicom) there may have been plans and so they opted for the entire Great Britain rather than just England, Scotland, or Wales.

[@angrymarksdotcom]

Oddly KZbin's automatic video gaming box mistook this one for the Sega Master System game, and they are NOTHING alike. Also here's a happy true fact - there was an indie wrestler who actually dressed up like STARMAN and came out to his NES music, complete with his jerky entrance into the ring!

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

I looked that up, and I am very happy with it.

[@Panzer_the_Merganser]

Just found the entrance video and it’s... perfect

[@graywhit9710]

Thank you for drawing attention to the absolutely horrible off-model Mario on the Wrecking Crew cover. I'm not sure what happened there. Looks like Mario has a Cronenburgian arm growing out of his chest.

[@saintrocketIX]

"It's a-me, Max-a Renn-io! Long-a live the new flesh! WAAAAA!"

[@mitchelldries6628]

i have to thank you for mentioning Trojan again in two of your videos. forgot about it for so long until; you mentioned it great game....

[@shane1489]

Kin Corn Karn would have turned 78 last month. That makes me feel old somehow😟

[@JeremyParish]

It's because we ARE old.

[@shane1489]

Jeremy Parish Keep up the great work!

[@JeremyParish]

Thanks, I'll do the best I'm able in my dotage.

[@Tubewings]

He would have been 76, not 78.

[@shane1489]

Tubewings Old is old, thanks for pointing out my mistake.

[@Ucey365]

Came here from Review Tech USA. Never knew this awesome channel existed until Rich mentioned you. Instantly subscribed!

[@mymangodfrey]

Doing all three of these games in one video was a smart move; it’ll help you avoid Dr.-Sparkle-esque burnout.

[@bjornh1527]

Here in Sweden we got black boxes but with the Japanese artwork. Best of both worlds if I may say so! Regarding The Amazon´s heel status, he also is the only character not getting cheers from the crowd when preforming special moves.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

I NEVER noticed that, but then I never played as him.

[@bjornh1527]

Amazon is the best!

[@redpup6931]

Looking at that box art just is... weird So used to seeing mario fall to his death.

[@davidmreyes77]

Pro Wrestling had INCREDIBLE depth for a wrestling game on the NES at the time.

[@HexRey]

By most available evidence, Soccer was NOT released in 1987 -- it was most likely among the FIRST wave of NES titles released, and appears along with 16 other games -- Baseball, Tennis, Golf, 10-Yard Fight, Super Mario Bros., Clu Clu Land, Ice Climber, Kung-Fu, Pinball, Hogan's Alley, Duck Hunt, Wild Gunman, Excitebike, Wrecking Crew, Gyromite, and Stack-Up--in all the earliest promotional displays and kiosks (with a single exception of an early M8 demo display that could only fit 16 games on the board and so did not include Gyromite), as well as lists on a few contemporaneous newspaper clippings on toy fairs. Another bit of evidence is the top labels on all those aforementioned NES games have the exact same font, and the star patterns on the front artwork is identical between them, which are traits completely unique to those 17 games. The "Soccer was released in 1987" myth was started by an error-ridden document of licensed NES games Nintendo of America released over a decade ago that also named several Arcade Classic series games as being launch titles, which unfortunately people took at face value despite mountains of evidence pointing otherwise. When I saw the cover of NES Works Volume 1, which had all the aforementioned games on the cover, I felt relieved that someone had finally done their homework... until I noticed Soccer was left out of its rightful place yet again.

[@HexRey]

This article goes into more detail and includes pictures and other direct evidence: themushroomkingdom.net/smb_release.shtml

[@briandecker3994]

Agreed. This was clearly a launch title. I'm not sure why the historical record seems to have been cleared up on evicting false launch titles like Donkey Kong Jr. Math and Mach Rider, correcting Metroid's errant year, but have failed to reinsert this one into its proper place. For more evidence, you can see that the staff of Computer Entertainer mention it among the list of launch titles in the Feb 1986 issue, and then publish their review in the June 1986 issue. 4/4 for graphics, 3/4 for gameplay, in case anyone was wondering.

[@gregimus85]

Yes, and Nintendo themselves list it as a 1985 title in the version that was included in the NES Online app for the Switch. When I was a kid, Nintendo Power included an insert that listed all of the NES games that were available at the time (probably late 80s) and included the month and year they were launched, and I remember counting 17 games that were available when the NES launched in October 1985, whereas Parish only includes 16 in his amazing NES Works Volume 1: 1985 book, which seems to be sadly incomplete now. Although I doubt many people will miss the Soccer coverage.

[@briandecker3994]

Thanks for checking on the NES Online app. I meant to check on that, too, to see if Nintendo had finally gotten their official date references resolved. If Jeremy had given it the full launch game treatment, I would have been interested in the historical context of it. I have no perspective at all on what soccer video games were like in the early 80s. I've never really figured out how to possess the ball well, especially at the higher levels, so I've never been a particularly big fan of this game, and the pace feels pretty slow and plodding compared to how I would want a soccer game to be. But if it pulled in those scores from Computer Entertainer, the other options on the market at the time must have been poor indeed.

[@DoneRandomLee]

okay for pro wrestling there is a bit more to why fighter hayabusa was the main character. He is clearly based on Anotnio Inoki and probably the most obvious inspiration for any of the characters. Inoki was and still is insane popular in japan. Understand he helped revolutionize wrestling in japan like hulk hogan did for america, he fought muhammad ali is a very famous sort of mma match, and he even became a politician where he tried his best to have wrestling help politics. It sounds laughable but he did do a wrestling show in iraw that helped the release of japanese prisoners before america bombed it. So yeah he's sort of a big deal in japan.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

I'm a big Muhammed Ali fan, do you know who won? And funnily enough, Ali did a lot of political work as well, even holding talks with Saddam Hussein and George Bush.

[@Jayce_Alexander]

@@TheSmart-CasualGamer 15 round draw.

[@joshmay2944]

RIP Antonio Inoki, he was like if Vince McMahon and Stone Cold were the same person, in terms of his influence on Japanese wrestling.

[@nivekregeelf2091]

He also held a show in N. Korea with WCW in the 90's

[@joshthefunkdoc]

@@TheSmart-CasualGamer To add to the other response, it was widely panned as a terribly boring fight to watch since Inoki mainly stayed down and kicked at Ali's legs. Interestingly enough, Vince McMahon himself was one of the main figures who promoted that fight in the US!

[@greganzi8874]

I just went and watched all your videos. They really itch a very specific spot. I hope this new format can magnify that need. That is, an in-depth look at video games as a form of analysis of the world at that time and the medium as a whole.

[@iwanttoseemrshow]

King Slender is the Hulk Hogan. His backbreaker was an easy spam of the button and 1,2,3. BROTHER

[@joshthefunkdoc]

People often say he's based more on Ric Flair due to his look. Panther is interesting because he looks most like Hogan but has the Von Erichs' iconic finisher...

[@pauldesigncomics2625]

Used to play as Starman. Would position myself near top corner turnbuckle and throw opponent against the ropes. If timed right, you could climb turnbuckle and do a full body press while opponent runs towards you.

[@martymcfleece2456]

No love for king slender? his back breaker is brutal! always reminds me of hulk hogan's move in rocky 3. But as my fav I have to go with starman. I love the attention to detail and the exciting crowd when you pull off a special move

[@SameNameDifferentGame]

It's honestly kind of surprising that Nintendo went with traditional volleyball (requiring so many team member sprites) instead of 2-on-2 beach volleyball (like the best NES volleyball game, Technos' Super Spike V'Ball).

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

Anyone else always use Starman? I did, because of his mystery stats.

[@averybeckett]

I know this is late, but I have a matte sticker copy of Soccer, which only came with the launch titles, so I'm confident it was released in 1985. Great video and series, your knowledge on this is awesome.

[@JeremyParish]

Thanks for the info! Yep, about a year after posting this, I came across a review of Soccer alongside the other NYC launch titles in a magazine that was published in early 1986, so that sealed it for me. I've sorted out the chronology for the upcoming 1987 book and also corrected it in the 1985/86 book reprint.

[@averybeckett]

@@JeremyParish Having that physical proof is definitely the best way to nail anything down. After watching this I was contemplating if the sticker seal could be something akin to Gumshoe, sealed with a sticker in earlier prints but not being part of the test market releases. Do you happen to have a link to those reviews? I’m currently working on a video on the Black Box games and would love to read anything I can get my hands on.

[@JeremyParish]

Yeah, Soccer gets mentioned as a launch title (a couple of months after the fact) in this issue: retrocdn.net/images/e/e3/ComputerEntertainer_US_Vol.4_11.pdf

[@averybeckett]

@@JeremyParish This is immensely interesting. Thank you very much!

[@randomwrestlingarchive3937]

Still one of the best NES games ever made and to me the first real playable wrestling game!

[@johnforkner]

No mention of “A Winner is You”??

[@RiotEXE]

Also no mention of Great Puma, the final boss of the game.

[@berniepodwyer]

This is exactly what I was going to say. Color me outraged.

[@marshy9948]

Kinda Pat Contri’s thing.

[@Danr234]

Soccer is a launch title. I personally have a matte sticker seal copy. Which means it is December 85. So the last 3 black box games were pro wrestling, volleyball, and slalom. Also Zelda was originally designed as a black box title for the same release era as seen in 1987 ces pamphlets. Soccer was definitely 85. I really wish Nintendo Of America kept better records like Japan.

[@theSato]

Really loving this video - cramming a few games into one 10-15 minute episode seems a looot better than stretching one game across 10+ minutes (aside from games where there's a lot to talk about, such as Mario 64) I just find you repeating things or ideas, or really reaching to try to fill time, on some of these more basic games. So really liked this one!

[@kmaru80]

Pro wrestling is still a lot of fun to play. Also, I always thought of Starman as the clear standout from same. To each his own I suppose

[@dogbusonline]

Those Volleyball hips are incredible. No wonder I've never been very good at the sport IRL.

[@milkcarton6654]

Pro wrestling is the first game i got on the NES (outside of SMB of course since it was packaged with the NES). I also owe it my best childhood and high school friend (who i still see every few years). He was friend with a friend, he came over to that mutual friend's place specifically so I could shown Pro Wrestling. He absolutely pummeled me and mutual friend at it since he owned the game but i liked it so much i asked my mom if she could buy it and i think i had it within a week. Which is about the time it took for said friend, who wasn't one yet, to call me and ask me to come over to his place to play some more NES. I did and the rest, as they say, is history. 32 years ago that was.

[@Grachtnakk]

That iconic crowd sound ~

[@thrillhouse_vanhouten]

This is particularly relevant this week with Switch Online's inclusion of PW in the NES collection! Looking forward to getting drunk and playing this with friends.

[@adamking6645]

The release date for Soccer is pretty confusing. Plenty of news articles from late 1985 (which can be found on the Nintendo Times Warp Zone site) clearly shows Soccer being a launch title for the NYC debut.

[@teranokitty]

Was Pro Wrestling the first NES/Famicom game to have visible blood? It's an unexpected element.

[@JaceyMitchell]

As a huge fan of the Fire Pro Wrestling series and a former wrestler on the American and Canadian indies, it's wonderful to hear you (someone who has repeatedly admitted to not liking wrestling at all) praising Pro Wrestling for the NES. It really is a landmark work in wrestling video games, and you can see its DNA all over the Fire Pro series that would follow it. It wasn't just the first good NES/Famicom wrestling game, it was the first good pro wrestling game, full stop. And the first one to make a genuine attempt at somewhat accurately representing the sport (working within the technical constraints of the NES and cartridge limitations of the time, of course). Sure, it is limited compared to the likes of Fire Pro Wrestling World, or even the first Fire Pro game on PC Engine, but at the time of its release back in 1987 this may well have been one of the top ten sports games ever released on any home console.

[@mikeyfn-a6684]

My brother brought me to tears growing up with Hayabusa's back kick and Amazon's bite. Btw are you aware of Nintendocore?

[@SEGAClownboss]

This gauntlet-style format of reviews is working good, Jeremy!

[@darktetsuya]

I do remember playing pro wrestling as a kid! I'm pretty sure my main was always Starman, that sommersault kick though so satisfying! I forgot that the original creator went on to do fire pro wrestling, so I guess we kinda DID get a sequel to that?! can't really speak for volleyball or soccer though, I think we had moved on to all the other great 3rd party games the NES had at the time.

[@DSMTheEditor]

That standing men's volleyball pelvic thrust animation killed me

[@JoeBushOnline]

The leg height on those kicks in Soccer is incredible, that's up past the neck!

[@aeschafer1]

My word those are short shorts in Soccer.

[@ShaneWelker]

Volley Ball was an amazing 2p experience, especially for those that learned the timing of it.

[@matthewlane518]

The Amazon!

[@jonriede6846]

Can't wait for the video on Ice Hockey!!!

[@pbrsteve5974]

I totally forgot about this one. Gnarly!

[@matthewlane518]

All i can think of when i hear that theme is abobos big adventure lol

[@MrCalverino]

I'VE ALWAYS LOVED THE MUSIC

[@Poever]

Is there any plausible explanation behind why Pro Wrestling never got a Virtual Console port? We need our fix of “A Winner is You!”

[@JeremyParish]

Probably something to do with its external origins. Nintendo seems to have become more aggressive about publishing games that it contracted out to other studios recently.

[@NecromancerAdr]

Those twerking Volleyball sprites lol 11:15

[@FranzFerdinand76]

Giant Panther is Ric Flair and King Slender is Hulk Hogan. This was our head cannon back in the day.

[@tjmixmasta]

What is that ending song??

[@guyincogneto8979]

Volleyball was tough to get the timing, etc for, but once I did, it is a great game. To my limited knowledge, the only proper 6 on 6 volleyball game. The one down side was that when your team was on the left side, you were WAY more likely to have the ball hit the net and go out which was a real disadvantage when you went to a deciding game and it switches sides mid way through that game. Sadly, having played Mat Mania in the arcade, Pro Wrestling was little more than a joke.

[@PlasticCogLiquid]

Back Brain Kick all the way!

[@SickSickPhil]

Has Amazon or Starman ever been in a Smash Brothers game ?

[@rwiseart2269]

Phil Baldy Nope, not that I know of. Maybe as a sticker in Brawl?

[@rabiroden]

Nintendo hasn't really started acknowledging the existence of Pro Wrestling until just recently. I don't think it's ever even been rereleased until the Switch online thing launched just yesterday.

[@dbpooper7512]

I noitice PW is among the first batch of games available for Nintendo's new online service, soooo... Amazon (and Star Man) in Smash?

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

We need a Starman assist trophy!

[@Ginormousaurus]

Pro Wrestling is one of the titles that I'd like to see Nintendo do a modern version of. They could add more wrestlers, improved controls, and four player support.

[@JohnnyWorld]

King slender and his pile driver was the most powerful.

[@Dirtybob23]

Volleyball has a difficulty setting: male or female. Male is hard difficulty and female is normal. I love your videos browski! 🖖

[@JetstreamGW]

... It occurs to me that the butt wiggle and pelvic thrust seem to match up pretty well and now I'm wondering if these assets were reused from a failed smut game.

[@nr-dx4zz]

Actual pro wrestling is great fun to watch. The wrestlers actually take a beating even though it is all fake the pain is real

[@MissAshley42]

I can't see this box art and not start hearing the music.

[@joshthefunkdoc]

People mentioned Fighter Hayabusa already, but as one of the big wrestleheads here i wanted to point out who other wrestlers may have been inspired by! Giant Panther: Mix of Hulk Hogan (his look) and the Von Erichs (using the Iron Claw as a finishing move). Basically a general representative of the "foreign babyface" concept in Japanese wrestling King Slender: Closest to Ric Flair because of his appearance, but there isn't a lot of that in his special moves so idk Kin Corn Karn: This is absolutely Killer Khan. In an era when a bunch of white guys wore masks and were billed as Japanese, they found a real Japanese guy and gave him a Mongolian gimmick lol Star Man: OK, there's a general rule we can apply here. Whenever you see a high-flying masked luchador in Japanese media before the 2000s, you can safely assume he was based on Mil Mascaras (one of the biggest lucha stars ever and especially so in Japan). From the 2000s onward, BTW, you can safely assume any such characters are based on Rey Mysterio. The Amazon: This one isn't really any particular wrestler so much as a general symbol of the "foreign heel" concept in Japanese wrestling. Basically the other side of Giant Panther's coin, i guess!

[@seanworsfold]

It’s not the Amazon but the Amazin’ !

[@whatsreallygoingon253]

I use to play a wrestling game I can't remember the name but the best wrestler was named Dr. Gildo does anybody know it's name

[@RyonTeachesMugen]

Star Man for the win! He is the best one in this game.

[@UncleSilverGaming]

You didn't mention, but who's your favorite wrestler in Pro Wrestling? 😋

[@JeremyParish]

Cyndi Lauper

[@nottrash9034]

Actually not disappointed coming back to NES games. I may be able to take my gf on an interactive NES works tour!

[@emmastarr5242]

Heh, I can see why you released this today. ;)

[@JeremyParish]

If you check the upload date, you'll see that I posted this about 12 hours before the Direct where they announced it. It's just one of those weird coincidences.

[@THEmuteKi]

@@JeremyParish please Parish, don't let us wait too long for the Virtual Boy retrospective

[@elvistwatty]

Never got why they put a wrestling guy on cover that was not in game

[@JustinLeeper]

It’s interesting to think that, while Pro-Wrestling never received any official sequels, it’s in Fire Pro’s DNA. I’m a former journalist, pro-wrestler and wrestling-game designer, and that never dawned on me.

[@FallicIdol]

All of the wrestlers were listed as over 6 feet, implying they understood the height differences in the West. Meanwhile, a decade later, Final Fantasy 7 has Cloud as 5;6" and Barret barely 6.

[@holdmybeer]

star man was the greatest

[@ERGLupin]

“Recoils in horror from professional wrestling like I do” knows what a “heel” is. Love ya

[@JeremyParish]

Could it be that wrestling lingo has entered the wider cultural lexicon?

[@ERGLupin]

@@JeremyParish Perhaps, but those words are their words and you can't use them without sounding offensive

[@JeremyParish]

Honestly, not a great thing to joke about given the current state of things.

[@ERGLupin]

Maybe you keep the nerdy video game facts to yourself and leave the comedy to others then? But, in reality, I’d say you probably are 6.5/10 for both so keep your day or night job and your still be straddling the line of the rapidly disappearing true middle class just fine.

[@Radi0inactivity]

Heehee. Butt wiggle.

[@jamesmoss3424]

I will play pro wrestling. 😀👍🎮

[@michaelsegal3558]

You said playing Pro Wrestling drunk is about as timeless a black box title can get? I don’t know I think Super Mario Bros. 1 is pretty timeless and that’s a black box title

[@Retroman8000]

Volleyball players seem like they're twerking waiting to move

[@JamesKelleyJr]

Panther is rick flair...

[@whoisj]

my god, how I hated this game. this game is how I learned that games could not be returned to KB Toys. still pissed about that.

[@shortcat]

Come on, black box cover art is nowhere near accurate. It looks like a screenshot from 16-bit game, and with larger sprites than the actual game too. The first example of shameless bullshot.

[@dallase1]

It's annoying how you keep bashing Intellivision in these videos instead of the VCS which had the crappy Stick Man Graphics and horrible music and sound.