Problems with Annihilationism

David Artman, Aree Spivey, Diane Perkins Castro, Erik Jerde, Timothy D. Carroll, and Andrew Hronich lay out some of their reasons for thinking annihilationism is false.
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[@Rickpa]

It does my heart good to hear people who actually believe in truly good news!

[@dalecampbell5617]

The idea that God is going to resurrect the lost, give them life, only to judge them without any opportunity for repentance/purification, only to judge them and then annihilate/ murder them, is absurd. When you look at the doctrine of eternal burning in hell, and annihilation, you have to ask yourself, is this the best solution that our intelligent, powerful creator could come up with??? After looking at the Hebrew and Greek, it would appear that the doctrine of eternal burning in hell, and annihilation are man made ideas. These two doctrines are causing a falling away effect.

[@doriesse824]

There's a long-time teacher on KZbin that won't believe in classical Christianity because he asks the same question as to whether "is that the best God can come up with" in relation to the forgiveness of sin. He says if the best God could come up with is to torture his son to death, then he can't believe in that.

[@dalecampbell5617]

​@doriesse824 do you have the name of the teacher?

[@doriesse824]

@@dalecampbell5617P.S. In his younger years, he had been a Christian pastor. Sounds like possibly a Pentecostal church.

[@jordandthornburg]

If someone is incorrigibly wicked and has shown they will not repent what else would he do besides destroy them? Why SHOULDNT he do that?

[@dalecampbell5617]

@jordandthornburg I can't imagine anyone who has been dead, resurrected and given life, standing before God, feeling a love radiant from God so strong that makes him bend at the knee and pledge allegiance to him(Isaiah 45:23), could resist God's love and judgment that leads to repentance/purification... God is not bound by time, restrictions or man's ideas. Man's will is not more powerful than God's will...Thy will, will be done. 1Timothy 2:4 this is good and pleases God our savior for he wants (thelo in Greek) all men to be saved and come to the full knowledge of truth... The Greek word thelo, doesn't mean hopeful, wishful thinking, it means to be determined, intended to get done.

[@joshuareigns9841]

Einstein said that energy cannot be destroyed only Change form. God is love. 2nd Samuel 14:14 God will make a way 4 the banished 2 return.

[@williamoarlock8634]

Trite fantasy.

[@danielniros]

this video is making me think a lot.. thanks for that

[@STEVEH0LT]

1 Corinthians 15 says Jesus defeats death. If people are annihilated they're going to stay dead. If this is true, this would mean that Jesus didn't really defeat death at all and that death is more powerful than Christ.

[@bradvincent2586]

Amen

[@williamoarlock8634]

Yet Christians die like everyone else.

[@artbyrobot1]

andrew hronich killed it! love him on this subject matter.

[@TheDreamDetective888]

Very powerful and fitting to the name of the channel. Thank you.

[@christianuniversalist]

love Hronich’s answer!

[@9430valjean]

This was beautiful. Thank you.

[@alanspencer3812]

Well done, especially appreciated the perspective given by Diane Castro.

[@anthonymccarthy4164]

Both of them present Jesus as defeated, he came so that all would be saved, not obliterated or damned.

[@Joe6pack4]

Would God knowingly make a child He knew He would have to destroy? Wow!!!!

[@lisareveley3912]

I love this!

[@scottmaxham4150]

It's appointed man ONCE to die. THEN to face judgment. That eliminates annihilationism. So the "second death" can't be human death. Judgment (katakrino) is punishment and Matt 25:46 tells us it is for "correction" (kolasin) not for retribution (timoria) or "condemnation".

[@jordandthornburg]

Κόλασις doesn’t mean correction in the NT times.

[@Mrm1985100]

Very weak argument.

[@dalecampbell5617]

@@jordandthornburg Hide Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS G2851: Kó1aonç, KONáoEwç, ň (Koráto), correction, punishment, penalty:

[@jordandthornburg]

@@dalecampbell5617 that isn’t Thayer’s. That is Strong’s and it just gives three glosses with no evidence. That’s why Strong’s isn’t a good resource and isn’t used at the scholarly level.

[@dalecampbell5617]

@jordandthornburg Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 2851: Kóloois KóNaOLS, KONáOEog, ń (KoNáto), correction, punishment, penalty:. Matthew 25:46; Kó\agiv éxeubrings with it or has connected with it the thought of punishment, According to Bible hud and blue Letter Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon kolasis means correction, punishment.

[@LEGOLexiconYT]

4:52 is the best, perfectly concise in not only universal salvation but also the necessity of life with God AND many other people too

[@colel.1560]

It’s simple. If it is God who saves, and he saves one person, and he is impartial, he will save all.

[@jordandthornburg]

If you assume salvation is some issue of force. Why would anyone assume that?

[@MattisWell.20]

@@jordandthornburg​​⁠​​⁠ your assumption is that the saving of all is a forced salvation. You know God is so infinitely sovereign He can make anything happen without the use of force or control, right? He can work around anyone’s “no” to bring about an authentic “yes” in them. And praise God that He not only can, but is willing and will! And thank God that in Christ, salvation for all, though hidden, is already a present reality!

[@jordandthornburg]

@@MattisWell.20 Tell me how he can guarantee all say yes to him without force. Respectfully, giving him the appellation of “sovereign” doesn’t explain that.

[@MattisWell.20]

@@jordandthornburg it’s a mystery. With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible! Let’s start believing it. Let’s not allow our hope to be just wishful thinking. Faith & Hope go hand-in-hand. What we hope for should be what we believe for.

[@jordandthornburg]

@@MattisWell.20It’s not a mystery. it makes zero sense at all and removes any coherent, rational explanation for the level of rampant evil today. Universalism always will have this problem because it simply doesn’t work. That why you can’t even given me a plausible scenario for how this would work.

[@MB777-qr2xv]

The destruction of the wicked seems to mean their earthly life. Revelation says Whosoever's name is not in the Book of Life is cast into the Lake of Fire and the smoke of their torment rises forever and they have no rest day or night. If the wicked are annihilated what does that mean "No rest day or night?"

[@MosesHanma]

Man, the good news is finally spreading like wildfire! PRAISE GOD FOR JESUS WHO SAVED ALL! 🙌🏿😎

[@ironglaciers1988]

Christian Universalism is truly the Good News!

[@magepunk2376]

I think it’s crazy to say that annihilation is as bad as eternal torture. Other than that I broadly agree with the sentiment here.

[@smokyquartz5817]

So afraid to cease be you'd rather be in untold agony for all time? That's fear on fear on fear.

[@Mrm1985100]

The problem is the Bible appears to clearly teach the annihilation of stubbornly wicked people.

[@MattisWell.20]

The simplicity of the Gospel is that God gets what He wants, and miraculously does so without the use of force or control. Praise the Almighty! 🙌👏👏

[@williamoarlock8634]

The stupidity of those that believe in the Gospel...

[@romandaigle455]

The ones that reject Jesus willingly actually love their sin. There is no sin in Heaven, the sinner would hate Heaven and they are the ones that chose their fate. The final judgment, they will become like stubble is what the Bible says.

[@yqafree]

There is only one answer that remains consistent throughout all the trials

[@bluejay9235]

1:10 I suppose the argument would be that perhaps God didn't know that would be the case for some people. The Calvinists would obviously object to such a theory, but verses such as Jeremiah 19:5 seem to indicate that God was surprised and appalled by what some people chose to do.

[@bradvincent2586]

There’s also some verses in the Old Testament about God telling men to go stab children to death. But since that is completely insane, and it’s actually Yahweh who commanded this, the logical conclusion is that Yahweh is not True God. He can’t possibly be Abba Father, as revealed by Jesus. He’s an angelic demon granted power over the earth. That’s why Jesus contradicted his law at every turn. This applies to your comment as well. Was God actually confused about where Adam and Eve were located when they were hiding from God in Genesis 3? No. God meets us at our level in order to relate to us. He knew where Adam was hiding. Edit: I went back and read Jeremiah 19:5 and I don’t even understand how that verse would suggest God is not omniscient.

[@jeffpeff]

Annihilationism; Love your enemies, so God doesn’t have to. 😂 But seriously, it would be very hypocritical for Jesus to tell his disciples to love their enemy, and turn the other cheek, etc., and then resurrect them from the dead, judge them and kill them again for good. That makes no sense, and same with ECT, God could just leave them dead. But that is not scriptural. 1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

[@williamoarlock8634]

Jesus loved his enemies so Christians don't have to.

[@gamernerd299]

@@williamoarlock8634 Dude, your comments are so bitter. You need someone to talk to about these things?

[@williamoarlock8634]

@@gamernerd299 Go back to your no doubt profitable game playing.

[@Mrm1985100]

No, not really. God can desire the salvation of his enemies while ultimately, and reluctantly, having to destroy them because of their stubborn refusal to repent.

[@jeffpeff]

@@Mrm1985100 So man’s stubbornness is stronger than God’s desire to save them? No way.

[@deeveevideos]

1 John 4:11-21 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. 13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

[@williamoarlock8634]

Well, it's 'loved' in the past tense.

[@deeveevideos]

@@williamoarlock8634 what do you mean?

[@williamoarlock8634]

@@deeveevideos Your god only 'loved' a few in the far past Jesus fantasy franchise.

[@deeveevideos]

@@williamoarlock8634 I'm sorry you think that. God bless you

[@williamoarlock8634]

@@deeveevideos How can your god 'bless' when he is nothing but made up words?

[@romandaigle455]

The wages for sin IS DEATH.

[@chadkndr]

seeming like there's no good biblically supported view for any of it

[@romandaigle455]

CS Lewis was an occultist

[@larrybedouin2921]

The sinners in Zion are afraid; *fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites* Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? *He that walketh* righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; {Isaiah 33:14-15} Not the ungodly.

[@23muffin]

Hell is real and a lot of people are going there, stop with the lies!!!!!

[@patrickkircher145]

this argument could be made for Satan as well. God knew Satan would be sent to eternal Lake of Fire without a chance of redemptiom, yet he made him anyway. So I'm not sure if it's valid

[@veri617]

Rejecting an everlasting God who created all should be rewarded right?? No Hell, no annihilation, are you the ones who decide according to your feelings and emotions?? God has no say about it all!! Who cares about His Word, right??

[@colel.1560]

Romans is explicit that it is God who hardens a man by using the man’s own sins. He also softens a man by infringing in his / her life and showing mercy as he did to Paul. Neither man is innocent but it’s all Gods grace. He will show mercy to all because all have been disobedient. People can and will die as vessels of wrath only to be woken resurrected to a judgement full of mercy and purpose and truth about who God is. God never forsakes and is not partial!

[@williamoarlock8634]

Your god is partial to Christians.

[@leroybroun4106]

all this personal logic, mostly based on feelings...it doesn't matter what we feel! what matters is what the Bible says. most people that reject God already expect to go out of existence. Jesus created this universe for His pleasure. He will NOT create a universe for satan and evil's pleasure. He is giving everyone the opportunity to decide if they want IN or OUT. If they want OUT then God grants them that. Sounds reasonable and just to me. In Scripture God seems prepared the accept the consequences of people's choices, even if He doesn't like it or even hurts Him.

[@larrybedouin2921]

If you believe that the word of God teaches eternal punishment for the lost (who have been judged and found wanting) for a vapor of time here on earth, then you do not know God, and you even take his name [character] in vain. God's justice is equal to his great mercy.

[@PrairieChristianOutreach]

I don’t mean to sound fundamentalist, but I heard lots of philosophy and human moralizing, and not Biblical evidence. This is unconvincing. Our current societal constructs don’t dictate God. Also, if nonexistence is torture, was God torturing you before you were born? I’m open to hear otherwise, but I think evidence is in order. Blessings.

[@Eryk178]

I agree with you there’s no torture in seizing to exist and being Gods creation there’s a wage we must be paid for not obeying him. I’d say that’s an easy way out if anything.

[@alwaysadawg6488]

If you read a literal word for word translation of the original Greek NT text, you will see that, in Matthew 25:46, Jesus describes afterlife punishment as "aionion kolasin", which translates to "age-lasting correction". Corrective punishment that lasts for an age, which is an unspecified length of time. "Kolasin" is used to denote correction with a goal to restore the individual. God would not wirk ro restore someone only to then destroy them. God bless!

[@jordandthornburg]

@@alwaysadawg6488κόλασις doesn’t mean correction in the New Testament era.

[@PrairieChristianOutreach]

@@alwaysadawg6488 Interesting, I will look into that further. I don’t take Greek until next year, so I’m in no position to comment.

[@jordandthornburg]

@@PrairieChristianOutreachyes please do. BDAG lexicon is a good place to start and the gold standard for NT studies.

[@williamoarlock8634]

All this rubbish about 'full human beings' while all your text of graven imagery does is dehumanise.

[@Mrm1985100]

This is weak sauce.