Programming the Midnite Classic 200 MPPT to charge a lithium battery

[@reddivrbob]

I want to thank you for this video. Very clear explanations and demonstration. I just replaced a failing flooded battery bank with LiFePO4 rack batteries. I have a Midnite 150 Classic, and this video made the reprograming very easy (took 10 minutes, maybe). Thanks again

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

We find short videos usually seem more helpful than pages of manuals. Glad it helped

[@daffyduck8244]

Been watching you for years. Your advise got me to buy the Midnite Charge Controller it was expensive 3 years ago but it has held up like a champ. Sent it in once for a tuneup but very satisfied. Looking to buy a 9.4KW Lithium batteries now to upgrade my system I have AGM's but they only lasted two years. Thanks for all your videos

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

I was always a skeptic of lithium but after living with them for a while I am sold on the way they work vs lead acid for sure

[@JasonWeir]

Great info. I have 2 midnight classics and was trying to figure out programming. This was a great tutorial. Thx!

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

glad it was helpful

[@offgridinthepacificnorthwe3210]

Great job. I have my Midnite classic 200 set up the same way. I also have an Outback flexmax and a Tristar. The Tristar is a pain but actually has a float disable setting. The thing I don't like about having the absorb setting 1 volt above the float setting is it causes you to micro cycle the battery bank. My system is Lithium ion NMC 24 volt nominal. I charge below the thermo runaway threshold. Which is above 4.2 volts per cell. I only charge to 4.04 volts per cell. I do have a BMS modules on every battery. I have Tesla batteries from a Mercedes E class car. Thank you for confirming my setpoint theory. There 8s not a lot of information out there for charging lithium.

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

We are glad it helped and yes we agree Lithium still seems to be a mystery in some places and I think some of the people in the industry that have used Lead for a long time are still nervous when they hear lithium

[@todalavida1454]

Appreciate you, made me feel better about programming for liFePo I have. I am wondering about the float setting, I hear people saying not to float lithium batteries. But the manufacturer gives the float voltage setting and even a max current for float charge. So is it wrong to float a lithium or doesn't it affect a liFePo to have a constant float charge while under load?

[@jacobgreen6939]

off topic question pls. does the GFI basically make every appliance coming off your inverter gfi protected?

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

No, Ground Fault devices in the pv system watch for fault current in the solar array only.

[@michaelsadach5401]

Nice video, but I am looking for how to change to programming ( it had lead acid batteries) AGM on the system. Can you help?

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Sorry just saw this, It would be similar except you want to use temperature compensation, I suggest if you haven't already calling or emailing Midnite Support [e-mail] or 360-403-7207

[@lincolnwalker270]

Your helpful, thanks Ryan

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Thank You glad you found it helpful

[@rafaelmt1000]

Hello, at the tweake menu, would it be good to do the calibration when the batteries are completely full or at the beginning of the day? What do you recommend?

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Generally speaking it should be done at rest and with the battery voltage on the higher end if possible as that is when you want it as close as possible

[@bestillandknowthatuaregod]

For CTL70- 12V battery what is the battery charging voltage to set it up on the classic charge control. ?

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

You would need to ask the battery manufacturer, generally batteries come with some instructional documentation to give you those setpoints but unfortunately every battery is different and you can not just assume these values or you risk damaging the batteries. As expensive as they are its best to get the proper info. I would call them and ask them for Equalize voltage and time if they want an Equalize, Absorb voltage and time, Float voltage.

[@a68k_de]

Thanks for this great informing video! I also have two Classic 200. My 5EPzS fork lift battery blew up last week, what a mess ... now I want to go safe way and thinking about buying LiFePo4 in Server Rack Modules. I have read about it is possible to setup for LiFePo4. But now seeing it makes it better to understand. Thanks again! I will also link to your video, when I have made my video installing and setting this all up. I have a MGPT and a "lite" Classic, so I will use the software for it (they should make a new version... this software is so bad ...) Is there any limitation to the amps? The BMS should handle this all? How does the BMS know, how much amps it can use for charging?

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

I agree the lite was tough to use some times, if you send us a DM on our facebook page I can get you some better info on making that Lite better. As for the Amps and BMS, It is up to you to limit amps to what the battery says is allowable. The Classics can do that but would need a WBjr to do so.

[@rafaelmt1000]

Hello, in one of your videos, you explain the tweaks menu, and you mention that you use a multimeter, so far so good, my problem is that in the controller the battery % is always unbalanced when it is charging with a lot of sun and when it falls Sun.

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Battery % as in state of charge? Or are you referring to battery voltage? If battery voltage goes further out of line when charging hard this is usually caused by voltage drop (It will be a rise in this case as you are pushing not pulling)

[@tonyjohnson1068]

Thanks for the video, I just got a midnight classic 150 and doing a DIY system. I'm not very tech savvy I'm hearing that you have to down load and program it . do I really have to do that or does it come set up. Because I heard these are the best thats why I got it. But I would have got a simple unit if I knew that .

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

You have to program the specific charge parameters for your battery but thats the case for any charger, You do not have to download anything though.

[@tonyjohnson1068]

@@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497 Thanks for the info. then it don't have to be hooked up to the internet or to a laptop to do that. It's all done on the screen of the controller.

[@grmccray]

Thank you very much for this! I have used it to produce a write up of how to set up a MidNite controller for 24 volt 100AH SOK LiFePo4 batteries - for my system. I include it here for your and your patrons perusal and use. Please comment as you see fit. Program Midnite Classic MPPT Controller for 24 volt SOK LiFePo4 batteries (Double check all wiring and ensure all breakers are off). Necessary controller settings are derived from the Lithium Battery specifications. Lithium batteries do need to include a built in Battery Management System (BMS). The SOK 24volt 100AH LiFePo4 battery's recommended charge voltage is 29.2 volts. 1. Switch on PV panel breaker or combiner and ensure PV panel voltage is OK. 2. Switch on the Battery + to MidNite Controller and the PV+ to MidNite Controller PV in breakers. (If things are installed correctly the MidNite Classic Controller should power up and display the setup screen.) 3. Push the Main Menu button on the MidNite Controller Using the right and left arrow buttons scroll until (Charge) is highlighted then press the enter button. Note: SOK LiFePo4 batteries have built in BMS (Battery Management Systems) and do not use the external Equalization function so these instructions effectively disable equalization mode. 4. Select (Volts) and press the enter button. 5. Select (Float) and use the up and down arrows to set the voltage to 27.6 volts. Current Connected recommends 27.6 volts for SOK 24 volt 100AH battery 6. Select (Absorb) and set the voltage to 29.1 volts. (Need -.1 volt for MidNite) Current Connected recommends 29.2 volts for SOK 24 volt 100AH battery 7. Select (EQ) and set the voltage to 29.2 volts. (Do not set higher than this.) Current Connected recommends 29.2 volts for SOK 24 volt 100AH battery Note: you can set EQ to as little as a tenth of a volt over Absorb = 28.9 volts. 8. Hit the Enter button to save the values. 9. Press the Main Menu button to back up 1 menu. 10. Select (ChgTime) and press the Enter button. 11. Set the Absorb time to 15 minutes (00.05) and set EQ to zero minutes (00.00). Current Connected recommends Absorb 15 minute for SOK 24v 100AH battery 12. Hit the Enter button to save the values. 13. Press the main menu button to back up 1 menu and select (T-Comp). 14. Ensure the number in front of mV is highlighted and use the down arrow to move the value to zero (which will now show as (DISABLED). 15. (EQ Comp'd) should say (NO). 16. Hit the Enter button to save the values. 17. Press the main menu button to back up 1 menu to the (Battery Menu). 18. Select (EQ) and press the enter button - EQ STOPPED should be highlighted. 19. Push the upper right keyboard button to select (AUTO EQ). 20. Ensure that under (AUTO) it is set to (MANUAL) which disables Equalize. 21. Press the main menu button twice - Should be complete.

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Nice, Looks pretty good to me

[@Whitewolf4869]

Shouldn’t the batterie power be turned on first and then the solar array? Turning on array beaker first is a good way to fry a charge controller.

[@keithahlstrom176]

Hey man! I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction. I attempted to launch a simpliphi bank yesterday. So I connected the two batteries to the system and did the settings as described in the info sheet. They were both at 52.2 prior to connecting to the system (if my multimeter can be trusted ...I tested a 9V and got 9.4V so I'm assuming its relatively accurate) When I hooked them up to the system they never went into bulk, they went directly into a float charge - reading 53.9 volts on the CC's (three midnite classic 200's) So I disconnected them and went to the old bank for the evening. This morning, I read the new batteries at 52.3 and then connected the system to them. Sun comes up, the CC's go into Bulk and I'm getting a reading of 53.8v. on the CC's. It charges for a while getting up to 55V...I walk away for a moment and I hear it click. It went into float. When I put the multimeter on the bank (still connected to the system) I am getting 52.8. Am I guessing that all three CC's are giving an incorrect Voltage reading? or am I approaching this wrong? I'm a three hour drive to the closest anything so I'm on my own for all this stuff. Thanks.

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Hopefully you got this sorted already. My guess is the lithiums are close to full and the 3 classics are a little more push than a pair of simpliphi want. Essentially your classics will charge to the absorb voltage and stay there for the absorb time so if you set absorb for say 56v and absorb time for 5 minutes this would be pretty realistic especially on 80ish AH of battery and 3 classics charging.

[@anifsolomon5727]

I am seeking a controll board where can I find it

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

The control board can be ordered through any Midnite solar distributor, there is a list of "where to buy" on Midnite's website. Below is a link to the control boards so you can let your distro know what part number you need. www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=619&productCatName=Charge%20Controllers%20-%20Classics&productCat_ID=21&sortOrder=1&act=p

[@TheJunkShot]

So, I’m an electrician and don’t my first off-grid solar setup for a customer and I am totally out of my element here. Do you set Absorb and Float according to one battery or all four (in my case). Totally lost

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Sort of a tough answer to give in writing, I might suggest you call the manufacturer of the charge controller to follow up but generally speaking you put batteries in series to make the nominal voltage you want. For example we have qty8 6 volt batteries in series for 48v system. So you would take the charge parameter of each 6 volt battery and multiply it by 8. But then if you put say qty4 12 volt batteries in parallel and stay with a 12 volt system you would not multiply the settings by 4 as the bank is still 12 volt. Usually the support staff at the solar manufacturers are really good at assisting on the phone so for sure reach out to them to double check

[@TheJunkShot]

@@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497 Ok great, thanks for the quick reply. I’m finding off grid more tricky then a straight grid tie with no backup.

[@Lykapodium]

Will this charge controller work for NiFe cells?

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Yes it should work great

[@franklarimore4555]

Thanks you all helped a lot

[@funksparky]

Great video. Thanks!

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Thank You

[@davetippel9380]

I have 2 classic 150s. I think they work the same? great clips injoyed them learn a lot thank u so much u are awesome!!!

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Yes a classic 150 would program the same as the 200 just accepts a lower input voltage

[@mmeyer9317]

Thank you 😊

[@ursodermatt8809]

lifepo4 batteries have end amps, typically 0.02C. it might be different with the "boxed battery" where the BMS does more than just control and emergency shut off. if you have a large array, V absorb can hit at below 75% SOC so 6 minutes in absorb absolutely will not charge the battery. hence the end amps.

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

That is a great point, I think this is true of any chemistry but with lithium the charge rate can be a lot higher so it is more noticable.

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497 with lifepo4 not only are the charging rates a lot higher, their voltage is also a lot stiffer. that is the reason we ask for sensing wires. it is very difficult for the midnite classic to sense largish currents to flow out of the battery in float and then takes a long time to bring it up to 99%, unless you rebulk.

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

@@ursodermatt8809 Good point on sensing wires and I know Midnite is adding them to future products. I suspect other manufacturers will also. I also know closed loop communications with any BMS that has a port is high on the list of things to do also. Lithium will change the way we think for sure

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

@@rafaelmt1000 This will depend on the battery, the manufacturer will specify that as it varies for each brand of Lithium

[@ursodermatt8809]

@@rafaelmt1000 also depends on the setup you have

[@JonOffgrid]

I talk to yea long time ago yea help me to set my midnite 150 s i sold my Edison batteries a got some sever rack batteries the video on lithium was helpful thanks for the video

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Glad I was helpful LOL

[@RandomPsychic]

only 5 minutes of absorb?

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Depends on your battery, always set your absorb time to your battery manufacturers specs.

[@RandomPsychic]

@@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497 too right. just curious.

[@rafaelmt1000]

I was thinking the same thing, only 6 minutes? the midnite 150 is originally 1 hour, it can be programmed up to 2 hours.

[@RussLinzmeier]

Thanks for the video ! Exactly the information I was looking for . I knew Midnite Solar would work with lithium but they are scared to use the word [ lithium ] in their manual .. It's not a critical charging parameter ... in the Tesla electric cars the motor turns into a generator every time you press the brake pedal and fills the lithium batteries like a fire hose filling up a bucket . They are not that delicate .

[@aroundthehomesteadwithsuer3497]

Yeah, I think the issue is the differences in charging requirements from some of the different brands as well as the liability if things go wrong. Long and short is Lithium is here to stay unless something better comes along and all manufacturers need to work hard to support the major brands.

[@EndlessBatterySolutions]

I love you

[@anifsolomon5727]

Classic 150