Vertical Bifacial Solar Panel Performance Results Part 1

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Vertical Bifacial Part 2 - Summer results and Reflector Results: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnWUfodjmtBja9k Link to Bifacial Solar Panels on my website: projectswithdave.com/solar-panels/ Signature Solar has free shipping on there Solar Panels till 2/27/24: signaturesolar.com/shop-all/solar-panels/?ref=SALE FREE Solar Financial Calculator on my website ProjectsWithDave.com: projectswithdave.com/

[@BackFlippingBaldi2391]

why not south north?

[@mattmill30]

9:34 - You touched on it about using reflective rocks, but would a mirror in-front of the vertical panels, or possibly adjacent at a vertical+horizontal angle or a vertically angled curved/conical, solve the mid-day dip in performance? If so, what if the vertical panels are placed in-front of the 45° panels? The light would be reflected towards the vertical panels.

[@joeycad]

​@@BackFlippingBaldi2391 yes, north/ south would be best in winter,. Would not collect much in longer days though. Just turn them twice a year

[@dizzlethe7346]

@@BackFlippingBaldi2391 because your able to put up more rows w,o interfering with the other's light, Nor do you get the reflection benefits.

[@dizzlethe7346]

I really need to write a script for this with how often I seem to be replying to videos on this...

[@WillProwse]

So glad you got to test this!!! Awesome results. Especially with the snow on the ground. I need to do a desert, high temp test

[@ProjectsWithDave]

That would be great to compare. If you have sand as a background it would be nice to see how the reflectivity compares. Probably much better than grass but not as good as the snow results.

[@chrislaf89]

Desert would have the reflectivity too, so it should be interesting

[@Skyhanger]

One interesting thing i read about vertical bifacials is they stay cooler under midday sun, thus suffering less power loss at noon.

[@MyCabinLife]

Hey Will glad to see you here! I just finished watching your last video and this came up as a suggested video. It's hard to know whose information to trust because there are so many people out there doing solar now and you don't know what is safe or isn't safe. So I always look for answers on your channel first LOL

[@hobbes1069]

I'm wondering if we'll see better results in hotter climates? With the panels not directly facing the sun they may run "cooler" and perform better.

[@mb-3faze]

Going to be interesting in the summer because one of the (apparent) advantages of vertical mounting is that they do not get so hot and heat reduces panel output considerably.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

I'll track it and see what happens.

[@Zorlig]

They don't get as hot because they don't get as much sun :)

[@mb-3faze]

@@Zorlig There's a joke that because the panels like being cool the best place for them is in the shade😊

[@mb-3faze]

@@Zorlig Are you in the States? In the UK where I am now, we can buy 425W longi panels for just less than $100(US) equivalent each (including our 20% tax) and that price includes delivery to the site. What's the price of panels in the US?

[@Zorlig]

@@mb-3faze I lot more than that. They've basically banned the cheap Chinese ones here. I can get a 535 watt Canadian solar bifacial for $203 plus shipping. That's a great joke btw.

[@stephenbrent2605]

I have had similar results with one of my experiments. I use older bifacials, mounted them vertically on a concrete pad and alternately used mirrors and then white paint underneath for reflectivity. The results have been very good, getting as much as 209 watts from 157 watt panels. These were partly cloudy to mostly cloudy days. At midday the numbers were approximately 35% lest than rated. Enjoy your channel immensely!😊

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Nice! Thanks for posting your results!

[@Tailss1]

Do you find that you get more watt hours total over the course of the day?

[@cerberes]

What if you gave them a slight tilt? Say there’s a hinge point at the top and the panel could swing 15 deg both ways as the sun passes overhead?

[@stephenbrent2605]

@@Tailss1 yes, 15 to 43% more depending on conditions. I am still fine tuning my setup so I keep making small changes from time to time.

[@Tailss1]

@@stephenbrent2605 I'm going to try this with mine - I have an experimental off grid homestead and used solar all last summer with okay results. I'm going to try using white gravel underneath mine (marble) as it's plentiful where I'm at.

[@malloott]

It's amazing ppl like you share these things for free with the rest of us, truly what KZbin is for! Thanks Dave, good research, consise information and great presentation!

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Thanks!

[@GilliganRocks]

I mean, he is making money off the affiliate links and views, so not completely altruistically. Which I'm 100% for just saying facts.

[@malloott]

@@GilliganRocks the information is free, his making money of us watching it for free doesn't change that right? And I pay premium so it isn't actually free for me 😅

[@PandorasFolly]

Im out in New Mexico. I have a former coworker who used bifacials to build a "ramada" but the panels were mounted like 25 feet up. He saw so much gain from a month where snow was on the ground he decided to duplicate it. Painted the concrete pad and then put white painted gravel 15 feet out in evey direction. He is still collecting data but says it looks like a 20% increase

[@old_H]

what about installing mirrors on the ground?

[@PandorasFolly]

@@old_H you can do mirrors but they are expensive for what you get and require tracking motors. Easier and cheaper to just paint everything some highly reflective color and be done with it. Kind of like why solar tracking solar panels have fallen out of use. It's cheaper to add more panels than do anything fancy to increase their gains However Their is a Russian dude on youtube who does a BUNCH of stuff with mylar blankets and cheap building components. His biggest thing is he built a cheap solar water heater system. It's a long parabolic mirror made of scraps holding a mylar blanket focused on heavy pressure rated pipe. Heats his house in the middle of a harsh Russian winter just using the few hours of sun light they get. I'll look it up and post it in another comment

[@k87upkid]

Have you considered testing a south facing vertical panel? My dad's array in northern Michigan is on an adjustable rack. In mid-winter he has them tilted to a few degrees above the horizon and, with the additional reflection of the snow, his system produces far more during the winter than it does during the summer. It also provides the benefit of easily shedding snow, he never has to brush his panels off.

[@TheRenofox]

I'd like to see this too. Despite the reduction of diffracted light behind the panel, the effectiveness of the sun-facing panels implies this would be way more effective use for vertically mounted panels too.

[@leifhietala8074]

I bet some of his improved performance is due to the cooler operation of the panel in winter.

[@TheRenofox]

@@leifhietala8074 Obviously, but I'm curious whether it would be even better facing south and north instead of west and east. Obviously the backside would be getting less light, but the south-facing horizontal panels won every test until snow covered them so I'd like to know if a south facing vertical panel would be the best of both worlds.

[@vencdee]

For south facing vertical panels you don't need bifacials, because the added power from adverse side is low. Therefore the overall cost of such installation is much lower and you can mount it simply on walls or fences pointing south.

[@Mnluda]

I'm also curious about sun tracking panels. I'm guessing the additional infrastructure makes it not worth it, but I would love to see the data.

[@KaelHankins]

This kind of direct, data driven, to the point video is an absolute credit to the creator and one of the only reasons I still bother with youtube.

[@ABaumstumpf]

So for most home-users just normal south-facing on the roof and a bit vertical east-west to push up the morning/evening power.

[@jasonbroom7147]

This video is nothing less than a profound service to the community. I will be installing solar on property around the 45th parallel, where snow is a very real likelihood throughout much of the winter. It's now crystal clear why bifacial solar panels are the only choice to consider! :)

[@ProjectsWithDave]

I'm glad this data was helpful for you!

[@hewydewy2164]

On the Utility scale it’s all you can buy

[@natehill8069]

I like your pile driver; the Kubota with a bucket full of rocks!

[@thingamabob3902]

when you are all out of cave trolls its the next best thing .... unknown orcish engineer ^^

[@Roll2Videos]

It will be interesting to see summer results in higher temperatures. Great video, Thanks

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Yes, I'm curious. I may take temperature data on both panel orientations to see if there is a significant difference.

[@danielnicholls6868]

will be nice to see if mornings and evenings make a difference in summer with the longer days with sun more behind main array. and also facing south with a white wall behind . the farther north longer sunny days in summer. two shine walls at 45 deg at north post might make a fair difference. i see a lot more tests👍👍

[@Sekir80]

@@ProjectsWithDave Temp monitoring is a great idea! I'd like to see the results, so I've subscribed!

[@Kytetiger]

Imagine replacing the wooden fens in gardens with these 😮 it doesnt take much more place, and applied to a whole neighbourhood, it could be significant

[@Tysto]

I love seeing vertical bi-facial panels used as fencing. It would be cool to see them between bike lanes and car lanes.

[@bradleylong3230]

May not be a great idea, cars kick up a significant amount of dirt and dust, and the panels will need to be cleaned often. Plus you've got a lot of heat coming off of pavement which may not be good for panel life, and you'll have a lot of shading from nearby buildings >3 stories. There are much cheaper and efficient places to put solar panels right now.

[@nlewis1111]

​@bradleylong3230 Panels are getting so cheap that even with significant shading, I wonder the cost/benefit of using them as back yard fences- those fences can be very pricy.

[@lolwtnick4362]

nlewis1111 thats cause they are grossly subsidized. personal fences are silly and will just get damaged by people, rocks, animals etc not to mention all of the trash these things produce to kill the environment. heating up grass starting fires.

[@Vakilando]

I think this changes dramatically in the summer and in hotter climates, because from what I've seen so far, the better cooling of the vertical panels also has a huge effect. And especially in places where you would not want to install traditional panels, such as on farmland, it is a great option to install panels at all AND it even provides a better microclimate and conditions for some farms. I guess as always: The mix is important and choosing the right orientation for the individual situation. Thanks for the video and these insights. It's really helpful to see this real life measurement.

[@CountryLivingExperience]

I love your analytical approach to this! Thanks for this test.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Thanks for the feedback Eric!

[@DFPercush]

Thanks for the awesome science! So many youtubers are doing the hype pieces, but you put in some real work to bring us the raw data.

[@veizour]

Thank you!!! I've been contemplating vertical mounted panels on a rig that I could wheel around. I don't have much money (or land) so knowing results of actual tests is VERY valuable to me. Thanks for your thorough testing and detail!!!

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Glad I could help!

[@chublez]

If you're doing a mobile rig why not just face the sun? These solutions seem tailored for permanent installation.

[@sc149]

​@@chublezMobile isnt the same as automated! A wheeled and anchoring rack will get a lot more if you optomize it even only once every few weeks, with minimal added conplexity. But a fully self orienting system is a lot different work.

[@vorgon]

Not likely a problem in the cold areas, but sun heating of horizontal panels is also a factor because as the panels get hotter, their output goes down. From what I have heard, the reduced output due to hot panels is another plus for vertical panels. they don't heat up as much.

[@PandorasFolly]

Research simulations also theorizes their is an increase of cooling because one side is in shade. Also the vertical arrangment creates a kind of "chimney" effect in the air allowing more passive coolsing.

[@SetitesTechAdventures]

This is a point I'd like to see tested as I've seen that research too. Everyone is on about spreading the output and the albedo which is great. But I am most excited about the cooling as heat is the big enemy in solar output and lifespan

[@ProjectsWithDave]

The chimney effect is probably significant.

[@MadRat70]

@@ProjectsWithDave how about the impact of wind?

[@miked412]

Interesting. Great to see the tech in solar is alive and well!

[@MadMaxZ06]

OUTSTANDING topic and FANTASTIC presentation!!!!!! IMPRESSIVE Dave!!

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Thanks, glad you liked it!

[@Andrew-jm4tp]

I have found the same thing in my testing. Not having to clean snow off my panels is a huge benefit to me. I live in northern Montana. Sometimes I have to clean my south facing panels several times a day.

[@dave882]

Way up there it would be great to see the results after a year of half the panels hung vertically facing south vs whatever racks you have. Seems like a simple idea to replace long fence lines with vertical panels, low maintenance and no land lost.

[@whatthefunction9140]

Put some Mirrors 🪞 on the ground

[@lovewenwin]

I want to see that

[@LP-MeAndMyShadow]

Or two tilted 3"x36" mounted just under the panel off the ground.

[@jasonz7788]

Great idea

[@mattg432]

Water will do.

[@artsmith103]

​@@jasonz7788Are you going to pay for the silver?

[@justahologram2230]

Solar fencing sounds like a great solution for suburbs and possibly some livestock farming (ie goats, sheep and fowl)

[@kitsurubami]

your channel is so valuable to all who view it! Thank you.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

I appreciate that!

[@bluedistortions]

I worked on a guy's system by the ocean. We installed a newer, bigger system with conventially mounted panels, and we laughed at his two older vertically mounted panels (Maybe tilted 15 degrees or so). We figured he must make little to nothing off them. I asked him about them, and he said theyre hooked up only to the hot water heater, and they make all the hot water he needs. The power of the sun bouncing off the water is not to be underestimated!

[@ProjectsWithDave]

I haven't tested it, but I've heard systems near bodies of water have a noticeable benefit from reflected light.

[@NitePHX]

Spent my first 40 years in the Cleveland, OH area and the past 20 in the Phoenix, AZ area. There does come a point where we start praying for cloudy days :-) Would loved to have seen the output results from horizontally mounted panels or horizontal minus 10 degrees towards the South during the winter solstice. Thinking about building a pergola type structure in the back yard and using bi-facial panels for the top of the pergola. The pergola would be 11' on one end and around 7' on the other which gives me about 10 degrees of slope over the length. Would provide some much needed filtered shade from the sun as well as power my house. Unlike your situation, I need the most power during the summer months for cooling. I really do enjoy and look forward to your videos. Thanks for taking us along on your journey.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Great idea, I'll consider how to test this for a future video.

[@Hansen710]

buildings with round roofs provide all angels needed for all seasons.. we need to start to build our houses so the look like greenhouse tunnels a garden rack would probetly also make sense to some people in a more round/bended version

[@papparocket]

Interesting. I spent my first 28 in Phoenix and my last 36 in Cleveland. I actually prefer Cleveland weather. Summers are really nice and in winter I can put on an extra layer if it gets cold. In Phoenix there is an absolute limit on how much I could take off. The one thing I absolutely do miss about Arizona is the mountains and the long distances to the horizon. In my last house in Phoenix I could lay in bed and see 4 Peaks 40 miles away through my bedroom window, or standing on top of Camelback Mountain and see the entire city. Here in the western suburbs of Cleveland, the horizon is the first row of trees. A person can get a little claustrophobic and so every couple of years I have to go back if just to get my "mountain fix" as my wife calls it. BTW, love the idea of a putting a pitch on the roof of a pergola as a place to put 100 ft2 or so of solar cells.

[@NitePHX]

@@papparocket Grew up on the West side of Cleveland in Lakewood. Now live in Mesa. One of the first things you notice here is how far you can see. At night, from our back yard, we show visitors the red tower lights on South Mountain and they are in disbelief when I tell them those towers are 26 miles away.

[@papparocket]

@@NitePHX I grew up in Scottsdale and now live in Westlake.

[@jameshancock]

Anyone tried this on a hill or mountain where you have clear visibility to the horizon below you east and west? I’d guess that it would dramatically expand harvest and change the metric. But would love to know for sure.

[@nlewis1111]

Also probably a good place for a wind turbine.

[@jameshancock]

@@nlewis1111 they’re basically never worth it at small scale.

[@DiakosDelvin]

There's also the benefit shown at 1:32, way more compact and can be integrated into/onto structures, if you're going to build a barn/vehicle shed anyway.

[@TheGuruStud]

I've noticed something that NO ONE does even when they have tons of room like you. Space bifacials 6" or so from each other allowing lots of sun to reflect on the back (of course using white rock underneath would maximize benefits). Shading problem solved! It also relieves some wind force. Small scale testing could be done with plywood used to simulate panels on the edges. Vary the gap size to see what's the best size vs performance curve. I bet on sunny days there's a huge boost.

[@spankeyfish]

It makes racking them more complex and expensive, though.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

I believe the increased cost of racking would negate any benefit.

[@TheGuruStud]

How so? Most people don't have more than 20 panels (double row so 10 wide). Total width would only increase 4.5 ft with 6" gaps. Yours would increase 9.5 ft, but with all the money you spent on that metal, it's not much of an increase, especially if your output is boosted 25% in winter. (looks like you'd have to add in 2 more sections). DIY wood mount would be negligible increase.

[@evrythingis1]

@@TheGuruStud DIY wood mount would also be worthless.

[@simonmeszaros2770]

What you brought up is amazing. I love simplicity and you dig into core. Definitely bifacial panel is something which needs attenation and broadens user cases for installation. Thanks for making an effort to share your findings. Cheers.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@PeaceChanel]

Thank You for supporting Solar and for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤

[@diySolarPowerFunWithRay]

Awesome test. During the summer I would have the front of the every panel facing west. For me, anyway, this would be nice because my air conditioning runs at night and it would be awesome to have that extra solar boost right before the sun goes down. In the morning it's cool so I don't need the air conditioner at that time.

[@youme4391]

Honestly this the first channel where someone got into his mind to make his own lab to testing PV panels performances, according different factors including positions (Vertical, leaning, East, West...). Really I enjoyed watching that video. I wanted to make the same test unfortunately I have no yard...What about the optimizes? How do you qualify them in increasing production? You gave us a huge informations where even no one did before...Big thanks

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Thanks! I would not use optimizers in this setup, they just add cost. I need them to monitor performance at the individual panel level and they allow me to have panels facing all different directions connected to the same inverter.

[@BrookerDynamics]

One of the claims is that horizontal panels start overheating and dropping in efficiency. This clips the output similar to what you mention for an undersized inverter/solar charge controller. You may never experience this loss of efficiency in Ohio even during summer.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Our summers aren't supper hot, but probably hot enough to see the effect and extrapolate. I'll collect some data this summer.

[@stuartburns8657]

This is the explanation I've read. Apparently an extra 2%. Doesn't sound a lot, but for large solar farms, it adds up. Makes sense, as here in the UK, my Solar is most productive April /May. Once we hit June /July they never quite match the early months. Heat I guess

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

How about a combined array single sided at thirty degrees at the bottom. And bifacial verticals along the top? It puts the bi facials where they can catch the most light from both sides. The single sided units are on top of the ground anyway so very little light gets reflected up under that narrow low triangle. 🤔 Having tried that you might try the same high low line up but you could space your bi facials E-W as well but to get meaningful results you would have to set up the Two new configurations ..they would have to be constructed and run at the same time in the same field.. The panels themselves would also need output calibration checks before and after just in case of any production faults or fall off after installation.

[@Hansen710]

this hype started longer north then ohio A group of researchers at the Netherlands Organisation for Applied Scientific Research (TNO) has conducted a series of tests and simulations to understand why vertical PV systems tend to provide unexpected yield gains compared to horizontal arrays and have found that vertical installations have much lower operating temperatures. after all the panels needs to be black to work best and the lower angle also works better in the northern part of the world im not sure this kind of experiment makes any sense in the equator area

[@michaelolayinka441]

I think horizontal panels will suffer long term, irreversible damage that will reduce their efficiency, while vertical mount panels will have more longevity as they'll suffer less from direct solar ray

[@Neberheim]

A solar tracker with the ability to tilt fully vertical would be interesting to see. Obviously this becomes significantly more complex, but the ability to tilt and slew not only for the most advantageous sun, but also weather conditions, like snow and hail would be pretty cool.

[@denisnepveu3997]

I looked this up because I'm interested in mounting bifacial panels vertically on a white standing-seam roof. I'm highly encouraged by these results; basically, every day should be like your snowy days. If I do it right, I think I can get around the problem that the long side of the building is not oriented to solar south.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Putting vertical panels on a roof would be challenging from a structural mounting viewpoint.

[@dailyrider2975]

I think longevity for panels is increased in high sun areas like the desert as the vertical panels stay cooler. Something your area doesn't have an issue with.

[@michaelbuckers]

Pretty cool results. So the takeaway is that vertical panels produce a lot less power, but it's more stable over a range of weather conditions, they produce the same duck curve as the power consumption does, are not sensitive to snow accumulation, and take up almost 0 acreage (with an asterisk).

[@captainobvious9188]

I’ve had separate arrays on my East, West, and South facing roofs for about 7 years because I live in a municipality that didn’t have grid-tie solar so I just use it throughout the day and wanted even power production. The East and West total 18 panels with 9 on each side and the South facing is 18 panels. The East+West outperform the South facing, significantly. So treating the East+West as bifacial and taking out the tilt, I could see it performing similar to pure south pointed panels. (In the northern hemisphere obviously)

[@etiennec8139]

Very interesting results. Thanks for sharing

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Thanks for watching!

[@Emundas455]

Looking forward to those summer results.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Coming soon....

[@JohnThomas-ou2rn]

Fascinating. Perhaps the further north you are the more vertical a solar panel should be? Smart testing guys.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Seems like a reasonable conclusion.

[@ericapelz260]

Thanks for posting this. The verticle option is exciting from the perspective of dual use in agricultural settings. I have heard the term agro-voltics used to describe it. I'm also intrigued by the results because I have a few locations where I could have a verticle array with the back side not accessible to sunlight (the vertical south-facing side of a building.) While payback would be much longer, it could still be worthwhile. I'm not far from Camp Ravenna in Ohio, whose site was chosen because it's the 5th cloudiest place in the US east of the Mississippi. I chose to install panels on both the north and south roofs of a building (I don't have good locations for a ground mount), and because of the cloud cover, I often see similar output from both arrays.

[@fckfascism]

Try google for "AgriPV"

[@wtfpwnz0red]

Need to see another one of these done in summer when heat is causing reduced efficiency. I wonder how much the added air flow helps vertical orientation compared to south-facing panels.

[@andremanicke8534]

You should also think about optimizing the average during the year. For this, vertical panels facing south will be best. Because in the summer you always have enough energy, but in winter the energy from a low sun will be maximized and you will have almost no snow on the panels.

[@stewgjeff]

I have a small 12v 400w setup , two 150w standard and one 100w bi facial . Since installing the bifacial I definitely see a difrence I my collection on those cloudy winter days

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Thanks for posting. As you have experienced, bifacial panels shine in cloudy weather.

[@PacoSS67]

I think that there is a good combo for your weather: 60º panels in East/West azimuth, like the vertical ones. Very good and clear info, thanks a lot.

[@jwalkerC21]

looking forward to the additional results

[@mattbrew11]

How do yall watch these videos without ad blockers? It would be insufferable

[@evrythingis1]

The only people who can tolerate youtube with ads in any capacity are children and boomers.

[@SjaakSchulteis]

Simply buy a subscription. It's very cheap and you don't see ads..

[@evrythingis1]

@@SjaakSchulteis Ok Boomer.

[@SjaakSchulteis]

@@evrythingis1 So everyone is a Boomer? You just wrote that anyone who can watch with ads are children and boomers. I say to buy a subscription, then you call me Boomer too? So who is it? 😂😂

[@mattbrew11]

@@SjaakSchulteis I dont see the ads I just know when they how often they would have occurred

[@ExitSpeed40]

Install narrow mirrors at the bottom, to reflect sunlight during high noon.

[@JosefSimon-fb9ix]

Great results we need no peak at noon moer Energy in the Morning und evenigg are importened best regards from Germany

[@martiechris7703]

I have mounted my 12 kw panels on rotating frames. I turn the panels facing east in the morning, north at mid day and west in the afternoon. Doing that allow me to utilize the sun to the fullest.

[@CNCAddict]

Excellent video, it really seems like as panel prices drop it will make sense to just stick them to any unused surface and collect every drip of solar energy. The future is so awesome.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

The inverter technology is also getting more flexible allowing us to take advantage of "random drips of solar" as you proposed.

[@OperationDarkside]

If you live in a snowy area, you can use the vertical panels to produce power to melt the snow on the south facing ones.

[@SmallVansBigWorld]

Very fun experienment! Still impressive that vertical panels can produce 80% of normally positioned panels!

[@davethepak]

Great video - but as others have stated - supposedly the biggest gains are in the summer in hot climates - where the vertical panels do not get as hot. Will be interested to see our results then. thanks for the video.

[@krslavin]

What I have found is that pointing regular panels directly up to the sky works best on cloudy days. I get about 20% more power than pointing them towards where the sun would be. This also has the advantage of minimizing wind forces for Winter storms. We can do this because we made our panel angles adjustable. On sunny days, they need to point towards the sun at solar noon, but over the Winter, we get so many cloudy days that we just leave them pointed upwards.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

So you don't get much snow?

[@krslavin]

@@ProjectsWithDave Not much, and when we do, I can temporarily tilt the panels to let it all slide off.

[@peterschouten9911]

In the Netherlands there is another factor to recon with, wich made things even more complicated... Because of the succes of solarpanels on domestic locations, there is a surplus of solarpower around 12 o clock at sunny days. Because of that, the voltage in the grid is getting too high and solarsystems are shutting down at this peak moment to prevent system instability an malfunction of the grid in total. Our normal grid voltage is 230 Volt AC and at 253, the solar systems won't allow higher voltages. At this moment, batteries are too expensive, but are getting more and more interesting.

[@RayleneCawood]

You might want to check out Sand Batteries to store heat for house and water heating as they are cheap and easy to make.

[@teaohar2]

I started living with PV about 40 years ago in northern Maine. Pretty quickly, I realized that my roof mounted panels were going to be a problem due to snow cover. So, I made a mounting system that allowed me to stand the panels vertically for the winter months. Though the days were considerably shorter during the winter than during the summer, the reflected light off the snow, the lack of snow cover on the panels and, I suspect, the reduced resistance in all the circuitry due to the cold, meant that on sunny days, my max amps in winter were as high or higher as were the summer days. Plus, because the winter sun came up and went down closer to a useful angle to the panels, I really didn't lose much efficiency due to day length. The big issue was that there were more cloudy days during the late fall and early winter. That was when energy to the system was challenging. I love the bifacial panel idea. I wonder what effect having some of the vertical array facing southeast and some southwest would do to enhance smoothing out the midday dip.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

There are lots of solutions with panels and mounting, now we just need to get rid of the clouds in the winter... : )

[@FuncleChuck]

Honestly this is such a good thing for solar - vertical panels are so much simpler, I’d love a solar fence!

[@peterjol]

It will be interesting to see summer results as well when they won't get as hot as the south facing ones do.

[@aditya.k.kochhar]

For noon time, just put a v shaped mirror at the bottom of the panels, a little above ground, that reflects sunlight back up to the panels. Also, if the panels get covered by a transparent hydrophobic and oleophobic coatings, you can also decrease loss of energy due to dirty panels.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

What about snow accumulating on the V?

[@aditya.k.kochhar]

@@ProjectsWithDave Make a spring loaded mechanism that flips to vertical orientation temporarily if the weight of snow on the mirror gets heavier than a pre set weight. This way, snow will fall off the mirrors. It shouldn't be difficult to get around the snow problem, but, yes the mirrors will need a bit of cleaning from time to time to remove dust. Also, if the mirror is convex, it should spread the rays more broadly on the panels, which should increase output. Please give it a try, i would love to see you experiment with this idea.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Ok, I ordered some Mylar to run some trials.

[@am-fil]

Well this is a fantastic study, I certainly wish I could find a study for the equator. Since in a few short months I will be building there.

[@ll1881ll]

Wow dude, awesome work and data

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Thanks!

[@DasSkelett]

I just felt like watching a 10 minute ad for referral links where 5 minutes were basically the infinitely repeated statement "the vertical mounted panels are mounted vertically"

[@evgeniyevstratov1198]

the snow-covered result was expectable, I'd love to mount vertical panels on roofs of multi-flat apartments like mine as no one would go there and clean snow anyway, and it would still provide some power in winter

[@milos_radovanovic]

Here's an idea: Vertical bifacial panels mounted in a zig-zag alternating pattern row front-facing to the southeast and southwest directions, and spanning east-west(or perhaps north-south). The downside is you can't drive a tractor in a straight line between them and reach all the way. Upsides are potentially better energy profiles in most of these tested situations. The exact optimal angle should be optimised as a compromise between panels picking up reflections of and shading each other.

[@Matt_on_life]

In orchards, they often lay white tarpaulin material down the rows to get color on the apples. One could utilize this material to bolster the output on the non snowy days… And he’s talking about the same idea now 😂 only white rock.

[@Londubh]

I think that the most important thing about vertically mounted, west facing panels is that they neutralize the Duck Curve effect: they produce the greatest amount of power when there is the highest demand for power.

[@thomaswwwiegand]

Thanks, the important part for me is to stretch the solar income over the day, and as of some time hard thunder storm gusts I prefer a until yet only theoretical solution: a row 45 degree east, another 45 degree west ... that lower the feed at lunch time, and also the need of batteries as of more time the day with direct electric usage. Didn't test it yet ... but keep your hints in mind.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

I tested some off angle positions in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGjbn4xuaaibZ6c

[@David_Mash]

This method extends the life of the panels.

[@alenasenie6928]

What I see here is that automatic snow cleaning would make the most sense to get ecuator facing panels without the snow covering them problem. Although the optimization of farm available land is a huge benefit that should be hyped out.

[@lylestavast7652]

looking forward to more results here as we hit late fall!

[@justgivemethetruth]

This is a very cool video. Did not know about this alternative. Seems like to be really complete you would have to factor in cost too though.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

There are a lot of factors, this is just one data point of many.

[@bastiat691]

There is another consideration that makes vertical panels make sense - you can mount the vertical panels as a fence on your property, which potentially if you are space limited means you can fit more panels on your property than if you didn't mount some vertically.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Exactly, this opens a lot of opportunities for new applications that previously didn't make economic sense.

[@Isaacmantx]

I think the biggest benefit for this array orientation is continued agricultural use of the land.

[@danb708]

Thank you for such thorough tests! Very complete and clear. The thing I appreciate the most is your crisp presentation without delays and repeats. Well done! I had a thought. Perhaps galvanized roofing laying on the ground on each side vertical arrays would work well. The corrugations would produce reflections throughout the day (perhaps).

[@ProjectsWithDave]

That's actually a unique proposal, I haven't heard that one yet. Thanks!

[@rodrigomohr1277]

Great analysis!

[@nnation]

buy a few rolls of 48" reflectix and mount it at an angle to the backside of the south facing panels, to reflect sun to backside, like a mirror..

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Some reflection testing coming soon....

[@loiclavanchy5018]

what I miss is multiple rows of vertical panels to see if the second row reflects back to the first panel. but all in all thanks for compering theme

[@ProjectsWithDave]

There are some larger studies with that information. I will likely included some of that analysis in my summer follow-up video.

[@Ted...youtubee]

Midday issue. Fixed with 45 degree upside down V reflective film/mirrors between rows.

[@truckerlarry7345]

It seems the east west panels mounted vertically with reflectors at the bottom on either side would help Relieve the midday sag. Very interesting concept

[@AllanSitte]

Thank you for taking the time and effort to do this. Not an easy project to conduct for sure. Very interesting results for sure. I see a different benefit to using vertical mounted arrays: applicability to agriculture spaces. In Wisconsin, we have a few formerly agricultural properties that have been completely converted to vast 30deg solar array spaces. Although I am totally into generating energy any way we can to reduce carbon footprint, I see the consumption of viable agriculture spaces as counter productive. The mounting of 30deg arrays consume space that previously could be used for a variety of agriculture scenarios seems counterproductive to me. The implementation of vertical mounted arrays could change the paradigm. If vertical arrays are deployed on an agricultural property fence line - especially eastern and western perimeters, the space inside the perimeter could be maintained for agricultural purposes. Obviously, the field size array would generate more power versus a perimeter model, but I feel that it is important to maintain agricultural space for obvious reasons. But... a standard for vertical array mounting would need to be formalized to address strong (storm and gusty) wind scenarios. Weather in some areas can get some very substantial winds that could be detrimental to vertical arrays not engineered to stand up to the forces involved. Certainly, 30deg arrays have a similar risk already, but vertical arrays would likely capture the wind in ways that the slanted 30deg arrays would already mitigate.

[@Tysto]

I used to read a lot of stuff about the "duck curve" but immediately realized that if we put solar farms across the continent, and if the angle some to favor the east or west, we can fix the duck curve easily. Bifacial panels do even better. These techniques combine to reduce the amount of battery (and gas peaker) backup we need for a clean grid.

[@Aelfraed26]

There are places where snow is constant, like the north of Japan. That's where vertical panels would definitely make more electricity throughout the winter.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Yes, most likely.

[@GREGGRCO]

Crazy. Look look ! Blue sky in the back ground ! --- Fellow Ohioian. Thank You for these tests !

[@michimannes7822]

One thing to consider too, is if you want to make money with solar, you only could sell mid-day production in south facing Arrays regularly for almost 0 cents since (at least in Germany), on sunny days energy is literally free mid-day - only few do notice that bc only few ppl use dynamic energy delivery contracts. (let aside, that there are options for guaranteed prices of 6-8 cents over the whole day, which are only goodies from the govenment) If the array harvests energy very early and late, these are the times where there are peak demands of energy, while the most solar energy production in the country is almost gone. In these hours, you regularly can earn up to 20 cents per kwh compared to 0-2 or so in the midday. You as well can save up much money if you can get your own energy production in these hours

[@markwilliamson9199]

Great to see the cold scenario. I am in hot part of Australia, and my panels face North and get very hot in summer. Vertical bifacial panels would be cooler, so would get a boost in performance. Also for half the year there is so much sunlight the panels are overloaded, so vertical wouldn’t drop as much. The real advantage I think is they can be used for fences and on walls which saves so much space

[@ProjectsWithDave]

As you mentioned, the bigger advantage in southern climates may be the reduced clipping and lower operating temperatures. I hope to check some of that this summer.

[@JasonBlack66]

yeah, I can see some use cases for this. Especially Solar Fencing, or on farms where you want to still be able to use the land in between the solar, or in a back yard or front yard where the owner wants to retain use of more land than regular rack mounts would allow (this is assuming the owner cant mount on the roof).

[@james2042]

I did my college capstone project on solar tracking. With just off the shelf panels, putting them on an X and Y axis that follows the sun, I was able to net out 42% more power per panel per day, and there was no curve, just when the sun was up and shining, I had 90%-100% and the line was relatively flat. When it was cloudy, they'd hunt for the spot in the sky that had the least amount of interference. The servos are so power efficient for how little they'd have to move, that the losses were around 3%, so the net gains were about 39%. The peak in the middle at solar noon were near identical to fixed panels, it doesn't magically generate more power. But if you have a battery to store the power, you get a lot more output per sqft of panel, and to me thats huge as it reduces materials used. Plus its more incentive to have full time maintenance crews on large scale projects, minimizing the effects of snow as you'd already have staff to clear them. It's no where near as cheap as fixed panels, but its much more efficient land wise and resource wise, which for a green energy, should be the goal.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Thanks for posting your project results. Do you have a website with the details?

[@james2042]

@@ProjectsWithDave No this was just my personal project, I do not have a website or anything. Like this was a very crude demo that was put together out of wood and toy servos on basic swivels, I was in college I had to improvise. The other part of the findings was that the X axis mattered more than the Y if you do only 1 axis. Doing both axis had a diminishing return, the benefit for just the X was like 65ish percent of doing both, while reducing the mechanical complexity drastically. Unfortunately this was years ago and I have since moved and most of that hard data was lost, but once I get some land I was going to try and re-create it at scale, rather than just a cellphone charger

[@id104335409]

Now THAT is valuable content. If only all of the KZbin videos were like that ..

[@mathehack1]

A cool use case for these would be to buy used panels and use them as a solar fence. You could use Wood or wire for the North facing section but panels for the rest.

[@damagepy]

With 2 row vertical panel, the frontal sun can be reflected to the backside of the other row

[@madmaximus2836]

There is a physics concept that in the case of solar panel translates to: Output power of a solar panel is directly proportional to the cosine of the angle between the incident sunlight and the "normal" of the solar panel. In this case "normal" means perpendicular to the solar panel's face. The implication is that for a monofacial panel you will always get the most power if the face of the panels track the sun. For fixed mounted panels there is essential only a few minutes per day day to extract the maximum power from the solar panels. For the rest of the day you do not utilize the panels optimally. If this was my installation I'd modify the vertical mount system with a pivot that runs horizontally along the center of the panels and use a tracker to adjust the angle of the panels to always face the sun. You can optimize it even further by installing a pivot at the base (ground level) of the mounting system to enable the panels to rotate like a merry-go-round. This is to adjust for the sun's path across the sky for different times of the year (2-axis tracker). Alternatively just buy a tracker from amazon. They seem cheap enough.

[@hopehope938]

Thank you for both your research and your data you shared with us! I could see in a small older home that was built before 1950 on a small lot where both systems could work? I do think where the vertical solar panels could be cooled with water to increase there energy production on an extremely hot day! I am no expert I have been trying to understand solar energy power production for the last four years.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

There is no perfect solution, at some point you just have to decide if it makes sense for you or not and move forward. I installed a system and realized later I could have done it much cheaper, but because I moved forward it is now payed off and producing free power. You can see my video going over my mistake here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHSampJ9iNd6os0

[@Simonb1977]

@ProjectsWithDave. You can also place some cheap mirrors to maximes the input..

[@keithcress1335]

Dave, another outstanding video! You answered all my immediate vertical mount questions! Thank you very much.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

Excellent!

[@richardservatius5405]

radiant heat barrier is like double aluminum foil spaced apart. It's not too expensive. You could make frames for it and mount them behind bifacial panels pointed any direction you want. the reflection would really power up the panel.

[@Cody_Ramer]

Also don't forget about having an adjustable south facing array, that way in winter they can be at the proper degree and because of that it also lets snow slide off easier. I would be interested to see the power difference between upright panels and panels on an adjustable array.

[@ProjectsWithDave]

I plan to do a vertical south facing test.

[@e6ensperception]

This guy is one of the mvps for solar knowledge