Prominent New York Lawyer Socata TBM-700 Crash on 2 Oct 2020

[@VASAviation]

Always a pleasure to watch and listen to your analysis. Sad accident. Hopefully something to learn from it. Thanks, Juan.

[@donatedpants420]

As a subscriber to both of your channels its really cool that you're fine with Juan using your content as the collaboration really helps in understanding what happened. Thanks for doing what you do.

[@blancolirio]

Yes! Thanks Victor!

[@bernardc2553]

I'm "Old School ie; I learned flying from that. Fast forward 4+ decades, I respect & learn f/ both your channels,We learn f/others mistakes it's retention of those & application if & when a need arises,.I've had my share, yet there's still tomorrow. .Stay calm ..and FLY THE AIRPLANE, after all..in the end..that's ALL that really matters.Thanks & Hand shakes to you both. and Thanks for the great content ,Old low timers.

[@theetruth4267]

@@blancolirio what about the failure of his radio? You say he could still land while following some rules. How would someone know those rules in the event of radio failure? Is that well known to a pilot? What do you make of the sudden break to the right? Someone else speculated that something malfunctioning on the plane could have caused that.

[@pmh1nic]

@@theetruth4267 If he is an IFR rated pilot (which he was) he 2ould know these rules.

[@danmcconnon545]

This happened only 50 miles from where I live. The local news covered it immediately as it happened. I learned more from you from across the country then we will ever learn from the local news. Thank you for the service you provide.

[@davidheinzmann4403]

Ditto..... Amherst

[@craigpennington1251]

If your local news station is like ours I'm surprised you heard anything. They usually care more about their local high school & college football teams. Don't forget Trump bashing.

[@terryq9966]

Ditto from Tonawanda. Many moons ago I was dating a girl that lived on the corner of Boyce and Route 33 (Genesee St). Recognized the area immediately....

[@spmcfa12]

Thanks for all the details. I live 19 miles (direct) from the crash and have flown over, and driven past, the reported crash site many times in prior years. Local news reported the plane as a TBM 700. Eyewitness reports said they heard a loud whining noise, like a revving superbike, before seeing a fireball. Supposedly the largest section of the plane that remained was a 3'-4' x 1-2' piece of a wing. Such a tragedy. Hard to believe an attorney like Steve Barnes could fly enough to remain truly competent in such an aircraft.

[@nellermann]

I bet you the local news said something about the tarmac or if they had a flight plan or not? Why do they love to use incorrect terms all the time, to make themselves feel smart?

[@jimbomac55]

I’m a doctor and we suffer from the same disease as lawyers- I’m a great doctor/lawyer therefore I’m a great pilot”- it just don’t work that way unfortunately

[@brentsummers7377]

Another analogy a top tennis player who practices and plays nearly every day, thinks they can become a really good gymnast with only two or three hours of practice a month. At the gym they try a too difficult move on the beam...

[@skippynj1979]

Good for you! I wish many of students thought like you!

[@johnhanson9245]

You are so right

[@rocketman7774]

In reference to Bobby Garcia ......... I highly recommend that any attorney or doctor group that needs an aircraft for business, hire a professional pilot to fly your aircraft. If you can afford a multi million dollar aircraft, pay $50 to $100K per year for a pilot to get you to and from home safely. Even if you want to fly your own plane, great. Just hire a safety pilot to fly in the right seat as an insurance policy.

[@skippynj1979]

I had many guys hire me as a safety pilot before my airline days... those were my scariest most hated jobs... would have been easier to just fly and be PIC instead of instructing someone on a CJ3 going into a busy terminal area... realizing the person in the left seat has no reason being in that seat... just hire a pro or two and sit in the back and drink..

[@davem5333]

Even if your ego won't allow you to take instructions from a SIC, sometime hire a pro pilot and just sit in the right seat and watch the pro. See how he plans ahead. Compare his planning techniques to yours.

[@jimmyhaley727]

Ego , Ego and mo EGO

[@treylem3]

🎯

[@russell3380]

Great reporting Juan, Thank You. When this lawyer crashed he had issues.

[@cember01]

"Stop your decent, level your wings, maintain any altitude" OMG, that's haunting. The controller knew.

[@DavidDavid-jb1cy]

he can see the rate of decent. It was not a secret.

[@dcxplant]

They are trained to say that.

[@ChristinaChrisR]

I so much appreciate having found both your and Victor’s channel - almost at the same time, about a year ago - because between the two of you one gets the best information, delivered in the best and professional way possible, and with heart too. So glad to see two such great channels collaborating (or at least that you Juan is using Victor’s great content while giving us the explanations for what’s happening and/or your thoughts on it). Thank you, you really are one of the best channels on YT.

[@hamletksquid2702]

You missed the Oroville dam thing, then. Juan turned out to be the most accurate and sensible source of news on that.

[@ChristinaChrisR]

@@hamletksquid2702 I did! I found Juan through my aviation interest, and found he has so much other interesting content as well. It's funny how ppl has found his channel bc of different things! I'm not American, though, I live in Sweden, and I didn't know the first thing about the area around Oroville. Now I do, I little, lol. I have a close friend in SoCal, but his area has thankfully not been as affected by the fires. They mostly have smaller fires during the season. Anyway, yeah I missed his reporting on the dam, but everything he talks about is interesting even though my main focus is aviation!

[@DG-wu7ke]

The more I learn the more complicated it seems. Pilots have a so many responsibilities that they are required to calmly do almost automatically without errors. Just AMAZING!!!!! Great reporting as usual JB

[@phillyphil1513]

re: "The more I learn the more complicated it seems." that's because it IS complicated (very) and let no one tell you different. combine Dunning-Kruger with a "bleeding edge" aircraft like the TBM and situation complexity amplifies by a factor of 10.

[@18robsmith]

When KZbin demonetises a video I really hope they stop all adverts on that post as well.

[@charcounsel4432]

They don't. This one had two commercials.

[@18robsmith]

@@charcounsel4432 robbing bar stewards :-(

[@UncleKennysPlace]

Call a lawyer, quick! YT is making money of off Juan!

[@COIcultist]

@@18robsmith *"When KZbin demonetises a video I really hope they stop all adverts on that post as well"* Rob do you still believe in the Tooth Fairy too? Just as the privileged say "It is laws for thee but not for me!" ThemTube says it is demonetisation for thee but not for me!

[@russell3380]

YT wants their money and yours. Easy Peesy

[@dangryder3763]

There was nothing wrong with his radios...he missed a previous handoff from center then flew out of range from the one he had been talking to. This happens 50 times a day every day all over America. He had enough sense to check in with BUF approach so he wasn't hypoxic, he had to look up that freq and find it and dial it in, and he did that. I don't hear anything slurred and there is no suspicion of hypoxia in this scenario that I can see. The "error" is in ATC clearing him from FL280 down to 8,000 feet - which is an absurdly unorthodox clearance...and "that" clearance involved a phone call and controllers initials to get done. Now Mr. Barnes realizes how close he is and the 8,000 foot clearance is viewed as a crossing clearance, like somehow he has to be at 8,000 feet by the time he gets to BUF or else he will be in trouble. He didn't have enough experience to understand the ATC guy (that was being very helpful) where he said he would just box him around. This is by far the BEST help that ATC could have ever offered, and given to a seasoned pilot, would have been welcome words. ATC was saying "Hey no big deal, we will give you plenty of real estate inside BUF approach lateral confines to get you down and a nice vector for the ILS eventually, but lets get you down first." If you look at the Reno P-51 pics, you can see the failed elev trim leaving the plane and the subsequent roll and dive. This TBM airplane was VFR, and it exceeded VNE (never exceed speed) in the rush to obey ATC and with power on and nose down it will walk right through Vne and then just like the Atlas 767ER, its kinda hard to recover from that. Mr. famous lawyer did try to arrest the speed/high ROD scenario but something failed on the TBM at that point, causing the right turn and increased ROD. I'm sorry but this one is (again) pure pilot error by a rich lawyer who should have NEVER been PIC in this plane. FAA will not do anything about this category but insurance brokers have been, and are involved in going to NO QUOTE on turbine owner flown categories. BlancoLirio is 100% correct that there will be lawsuits and TBM, ATC, the FBO, PW, and everybody will all be defendants where a jury of sympathetic peers will award $25M to the family for pain and suffering and insurance will write the check. PI attorneys make a living out of making something out of nothing, they operate on fee contingent basis, and they encourage citizens to fabricate injury, damage, events so that the insurance company will settle. There is no down side to a PI firm for losing a fee contingent case. They roll the dice every time gambling their time and effort for that all important 40% of award day...which is how he got the TBM in the first place. Remember that there are four tests at work in this crooked world of ours: FAA, Insurance, Darwin, and Bernoulli. Bernoulli decides and rules instantly. Darwin may take some time to sift but is pretty consistent. Insurance responds slowly but on their own without much government guidance. FAA takes forever and will make the wrong action, make it cost more, and the action selected will have nothing to do with the problem.

[@AaronHawley]

The flight was IFR flight plan. KBUF metars suggest it might have been VFR on top. Loss of flight control suggests pilot error. How current was this pilot? How capable were they with handling a non-standard approach as a single pilot? One other consideration is icing, but the TBM has equipment. However, ice conditions do sneak up and surprise pilots this time of year.

[@dangryder3763]

@@AaronHawley We need more Inspiration, less regulation. How can we get pilots to become inspired about taking proactive self correction upon recognition of the problem. See article by Rob Mark in FLYING magazine where he asks that question (September issue Pg.40) My correspondence with FLYING indicates that they see this difference and are in prep mode for expert material coming immidiately that lean heavy on INSPIRATION. My correspondence with McSpadden at AOPA says status quo, GAJSC is all we need, and no changes are necessary. It should be noted that AOPA actually benefits from increased insurance premiums (A classic case of pure conflict of interest) because they receive a flat 10% "donation" to AOPA of all premiums collected through Assured Partners. When your insurance premium increases from $4000/year to $8,000/year...a little bell goes off at AOPA because they just went from $400/year to $800/year in free money. AOPA has no risk, no staff, and no costs in the game. Just a 10% referral "donation" See future videos concerning the state of AOPA and why it is no longer a member organization.

[@OMG_No_Way]

Dan Gryder - I have to admit, it’s so nice to read a comment like yours-regardless of content-where it’s written well, with correct spelling, punctuation, etc. Yes, your comment is speculation at this point, but damn, what a nice read. Thank you. I really wish more people wrote like you do/did. Instead of comments that are filled with miss spelled and made up words, topped off with run on sentences that don’t make a lick of sense. I always do my best to write like you do, and I don’t know if it always works. But hey, at least I try.

[@billg7205]

"They roll the dice every time gambling their time and effort for that all important 40% of award day...which is how he got the TBM in the first place." Yeah that says a lot.

[@billg7205]

The OP's comment also does a good job of indirectly making the point that a jury would need significant education and knowledge (seemingly not possible) to fairly rule in such a situation.

[@aviation3530]

Thank you Juan, I've been hoping you'd provide a video on this accident. I read an article in the Buffalo News earlier where Richard Barnes, the dad to the passenger Elizabeth and brother to the pilot talks about his grief after learning from others in their law firm that his brothers plane went down and he had to tell those people that his daughter was also onboard. Thanks again for your reporting. Thoughts and prayers to all the family members friends connected to this accident.

[@JimWhitaker]

VASAviation and your annotations make for a really insightful video - again. Thanks to both of you.

[@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043]

Tragic.. I’m sure any ATC who last communicates with any stricken airplane has trouble sleeping that night. ‘...how do you read..’ those somber words said. They train for this scenario, but it never becomes routine. RIP the barrister and his niece.

[@ivangranger8494]

Ken Clark Most people that have compassion, may. Just working in an ER and having a trauma or arrest before the end of ones shift, can leave one staring at the ceiling when in bed unable to fall asleep, after an evening shift. Adrenaline, and thinking of the other person, factors in. I am not sure what your career is, nor do I understand your comment.

[@kenclark9888]

Ivan Granger I didn’t really the prior comment either. I have been having some issues with my phone and my comment got released before I even finished

[@ivangranger8494]

Ken Clark 👍🏻 Yes, that happens. The phones are not always user, friendly. I have had that happen to me, also.

[@randyeno2525]

Thanks Juan. Tragic sequence of events. You do have to wonder what was going on in the background that caused the pilot to lose and have difficulty re-establishing comms with ATC. Physiological, pressurization or just distraction? The pilot sounded reasonably aware when he talked to ATC. Things clearly unraveled quickly once he started the descent from FL280. If I had to speculate, it would be that when the controller advised the pilot to continue direct to the airport (rather than a vector as he requested) he may not have understood what the controller had in mind and felt like he had to expedite the descent due to how close he was to the airport by that point. I can see a scenario where he disconnected the autopilot as a fast way to initiate the descent or it accidentally tripped off. The TBM is a slippery airplane and it may have gotten away from him quickly once the nose was pointed down. Obviously there could be other scenarios. Regardless, It will be interesting to see how much time he had in the TBM and how current he was. I highly suspect proficiency (in this class of high performance aircraft) will be a contributing factor. I hate to see these kinds of accidents. Keep up the great reporting and I hope your back to work flow is going well.

[@tonymckeage1028]

Thanks Juan, Great Update. Sounds like a true accident where a pilot was operating well outside his skills and knowledge, thanks

[@jamesharp3445]

Commercial Helo and former military pilot here...sounds like a classic right handed graveyard spin. Go off auto pilot with slight turn and inner ear tells you that you are straight and level...when you are actually turning and descending. I had an instructor do that to me with an emergency panel (no Art. Horizon) and no comms. It is a scary feeling when you realize your in a bad descending turn and when you try and correct it, your brain and body scream at you that you are wrong...put it back the way it was! It can get out of control in 15 seconds. This is where the phrase, "Trust your instruments," comes from. They will probably find this guy had low time IFR experience and flying the Lamborghini model of a private aircraft. Very unfortunate. Hope some good can eventually come of this. Condolences to his family.

[@blancolirio]

Good vfr wx....

[@monkeyboy4746]

I am not a pilot, so here's my question. In flying VFR in the daytime, pilots look out of the window for attitude control, but it would seem that pilots would also glance at the instruments occasionally to get an idea of how they reacted to various changes in the attitude of the aircraft so in time a pilot would learn to trust his instruments intuitively and disregard what his inner ear was telling him. I know that as the aviation field grew, new instruments were added to the aircraft and the pilots just learned to use them over time. What am I missing here? Thank you.

[@jamesharp3445]

@@blancolirio ouch...didn't realize he was in VFR conditions. Well, that adds quite a bunch to the investigation. Payne Stewart hypoxia or some sort of medical issue? This will be tough unless they find a mechanical issue...which is unlikely since all signs point to him being way behind in the aircraft. Back to you Mr. Blancolirio...

[@jamesharp3445]

@@monkeyboy4746 Hey...you are not missing anything...I didn't realize he was in VFR conditions. Which means daytime and can see fine. He was flying an IFR flight plan due to the flight levels but could see outside...I did not realize that...which adds real mystery to the crash. You are correct though, if you are flying instruments in the daytime, you can look outside and immediately get your orientation...unless in the clouds or strange VFR on top of clouds.

[@Trevor_Austin]

monkeyboy4746 - This comes down to training. When VFR the only gyroscopic instrument of any use is the heading indicator. The rest are not required. When flying solely on instruments you MUST trust the gyro instruments TOTALLY. The toughest time is when you transition from visual to instrument flying (and back) in poor visibility. A commercial airliner typically has three attitude displays. Only when one disagrees with another do you start to ignore their indications. In small aircraft you compare one set of instruments with another to confirm that you are being supplied with valid information. The reality is your life depends on the quality of your initial and recurrent training.

[@Tom_239]

7:27 the speed is spiky because it's calculated by multilateration (not ADS-B). Note the text "FlightAware MLAT" near the cursor.

[@bobferranti5222]

VAS aviation is awesome, I enjoy listening to his channel too. Thank you Juan, your coverage is always right to the point and accurate.

[@maximfdrv]

Thank you Juan. Good point about the lawyers! Great report!

[@macmedic892]

4:17 "Yes sir, everything's fine; TBM 965DM" Oh how those words would very quickly come back to bite him.

[@echofoxtrot4538]

macmedic892 agreed, but, also the odd part.

[@nikovbn839]

Maybe he knew something was wrong and he didn't want to scare his niece? One of my first thoughts when I've heard that.

[@first_last-]

@@nikovbn839 I highly doubt it.

[@davekey8630]

He could be embarrassed by the situation he found himself in?

[@wdonno]

The pilot sounded evasive to me in his communications. I was taught to prioritize Skin, Tin, Ticket , in that order when dealing with an inflight incident. There may have been nothing ATC could do to help, but if you don’t ask.... Minimally, they can reduce your workload so you can concentrate on the problem by being honest with them. Can’t do that if you are worrying about your Ticket.

[@macmedic892]

5:02 Just as an aside, I'm glad to see recommendations from the same channels... I love The History Guy. Have you seen the World War Two channel by TimeGhost History. They're doing a spectacular week-by-week breakdown of WW2; on 12/7 they're planning to recap the Pearl Harbor attack in real time, minute-by-minute.

[@Mach7RadioIntercepts]

I get a kick out of the ex-military guys calling their radios "Victor 1" "Victor 2" etc, short for "VHF." Because they also use "Uniform" frequencies which are actually a bit below the UHF spectrum. Civillians tend to use terminology "Comm 1" "Comm 2" or maybe "HF 1" and "HF 2". NASA's astronauts have different words altogether: "Air to Ground 1" "Air to Ground 2" and "Teedriss" (TDRSS)... Doesn't really affect the content here, but is an interesting aspect of the aviation lexicon.

[@rjtoten]

Yep, had an ex-mil copilot do that to me once. "Ground is on Victor 1", "What? (thinks about it for 2 seconds)...oh, got it."

[@rudolfabelin383]

First of all, my thought go to the family. My respects. Having grown up in aviation industry, I fully understand the lawyer part. I remember my father explaining the decrease in Cessna, Piper, Beech etc sales with the lawsuits. They sue the manufacturer of the aircraft, the fuel, the oil. Everyone. Remember how the insurance costs "killed" GA.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

"Losing party pays" is the law of the land in most countries other than the USA.

[@rudolfabelin383]

@@UncleKennysPlace I'm from Sweden.

[@larryfisher7056]

@@UncleKennysPlace Frank Herbert"s "Dosadi Experiment"...the losing lawyer is executed.....cuts down on frivolous law suits....

[@davidkitting6676]

@@larryfisher7056 Does the experiment address Judges who hire lawyers to keep prosecuting after the prosecution has dropped charges... would save the taxpayers billions...

[@Doxymeister]

@@davidkitting6676 Amen.

[@cember01]

Judging by the 3 or 4 advertisements that interrupted this, I'd say KZbin isn't demonetizing at all. They're just not giving you your fair share.

[@MikeBova1]

I'm getting the same non stop political ads on all videos now

[@MikeBova1]

@McFarland I'm using the app for android and another trick that works is play the last few seconds of the video and after it ends you watch it add free

[@lizj5740]

"Demonetized" doesn't mean that KZbin doesn't play ads; it means that Juan doesn't receive any income from those ads. KZbin is quite happy to profit from topics that they think the creator shouldn't profit from. Bit of a double standard.

[@MikeBova1]

@@lizj5740 I always let one or two ads play to drive some revenue to the creator but lately its non stop negative political ads so I just lower the volume let them play and go to the bathroom or something for a few minutes then come back a watch the full video

[@lizj5740]

@@MikeBova1 Perhaps the political ads are US-centric. I get ads for powdering gentlemen's private parts, Grammarly, and some online investment program. Usually, they can be turned off after 5 seconds.

[@rochellepaputsis7245]

Ty Juan Browne I share your videos with my grandson who will be 14 in 2 months. Much appreciated.❤ PS give a high five to Pete for me 🤗

[@cbshomebizplane]

This is getting crazy all the accidents going home for the last couple of months, thanks for the report Juan. God bless you.

[@kevinmathews3818]

Go Juan, faithful Patreon supporter!

[@TheRonKlimo]

I always enjoy your videos and with this one hitting close to home, thank you ! From someone who doesn't know much about planes, you have explained it so that us common folk can understand.

[@avflyguy]

Juan... news flash.. It doesn't have to be an attorney involved in a bad crash. Any bad crash will draw out well established and experienced aviation plaintiff attorneys. Under the owners insurance policy, the liability rests with the owners insurance which will no doubt pay policy limits to the passenger. Then or in conjunction with the primary a/c policy, the attorneys will go after every entity they can think of for alleged culpability. This will drag on for years before this one runs it course. Insurance rates will continue rising anyway as those markets are recovering from a 10-15 year unseen soft market with historic lows in premiums. Granted, the last 2 years or so have not been favorable for insurors due to some bad and expensive losses. But that's not the only reason.

[@marklipson]

Juan, I just wanted to drop you a note of thanks for these clear and informative videos. I'm not a pilot or even a wannabe, but just interested in aviation, flight protocols, the science and engineering, human factors, etc. Your explanations and insights are a righteous, edifying antidote for my technical ignorance. In this sometimes complicated world, it's a real pleasure to better understand a subject that might ordinarily be out of my reach. Even when you shine a light on darker subjects--perhaps especially when the consequences are so tragic--I feel I've learned something valuable and important. Thank you.

[@robinkuruda5249]

Same here !!

[@jaxjake95]

Like your new glasses Juan, they look good on you. They will look even better in that 777 cockpit. Thank you for all the effort you put into your informative videos.

[@dobermanpac1064]

Sad day for all. Thanks Juan for the report.

[@TwoSwedes]

If you are demonetized why are they still running ads on your content? This sounds illegal, and is at best unethical practice - collecting revenue on your content while giving you nothing.

[@BrilliantDesignOnline]

Use Ad Block Plus

[@davesnothere512]

Typical KZbin behavior. Nothing to see here.

[@jabbawok]

...just...don't...click...

[@mikercflyer7383]

TwoSwedes Google does what ever they want including censoring videos.

[@jamesmichaelfreer]

Thanks Juan! Always look forward to your insightful post!

[@richardschindler8822]

Too much plane for him, and it just got away from him? I’ve been flying for over 50 years, now retired, and the first thing you do when you haven’t heard from center for awhile is start chatting with whoever you can reach on the radio. Then get back to the correct freq. The fact that he said everything is fine is odd, then he stopped communicating again? Guess it’s up to the NTSB to sort through this one.

[@thomasholte1828]

Thank you for all the good info you put out.

[@Dandoesac]

You will be on the national news one day because of your fine quality reporting

[@jonathancurtin5291]

I live in Manchester and I took a pic of this plane before..Rip to both. Juan thanks for the content

[@plnmech]

i have said this before but I will say it again, this is a case of people with a lot of excess money and big egos buying expensive air planes that they don not have enough training and experience to safely fly but their egos tell them that they can. There is an old saying that goes like this, "what goes up must come down". As the person in control of the air plane once you get it into the air you must be prepared for it's eventual return to earth. The laws of gravity have not been repealed.

[@christainmarks106]

You make the information so simple to understand thank you Juan once again

[@lucifermorningstar4548]

Saw this over on VAS’s channel. Very odd crash. RIP.

[@recoveringsoul755]

Personal injury lawyer. I wonder who his clients were and what cases he was working on. Hmmm

[@AreeyaKKC]

@@recoveringsoul755 his firm was just broken up this spring.

[@recoveringsoul755]

@@AreeyaKKC Perhaps he was going to a new firm? If so, he may have kept the same clients. I imagine any lawyer may have enemies

[@AreeyaKKC]

@@recoveringsoul755 injury attorney. So enemies are the corporate elite and insurance companies.

[@speedlever]

No disrespect intended, but I wonder if the niece’s family will sue the estate of the PIC. It would be rather ironic.

[@suunto61]

First thing I was taught in ground school by a active duty Captain F14 jockey... Nothing can be fairer than to call it pilot error. He also took me ridge soaring.

[@Trevor_Austin]

suunto61 - “Pilot error” should be the start of the investigation, not the end. This is because you if you wish to prevent reoccurrence, you need to understand the type of mistake/s so that others can be trained to avoid it.

[@DavidDavid-jb1cy]

@@Trevor_Austin let's be honest, there is a 99.9999999999% chance the NTSB report concludes "pilot error"

[@neuropilot7310]

They teach Naval Aviators to eject if they get disoriented & out-of-control below 6,000 AGL for a reason. The jet is basically lost at that point, so the crew need to eject to save themselves. Also, The safety investigation typically call it 'human factors' because there maybe other factors that led to pilot error, and crash.

[@Casey_Schmidt]

This is great info, thank you Juan!

[@glennpowell3444]

Having had flying lessons that I had to quit due to divorce I came to the conclusion that flying is relatively straight forward if you understand how a plane flies. However navigation is a different ball game altogether! Not getting lost is very difficult! It ain't like a Sunday afternoon walk in the hills.Night flying has always fascinated me! Cheers.

[@echofoxtrot4538]

BTW, love the channel and good to hear you’re healthy!

[@andrew_culver]

ATC: "Stop your descent, level your wings, maintain any altitude." Is that anything like a common ATC instruction? Or is this controller trying anything he can think of to help this pilot? Seems remarkable to me.

[@coriscotupi]

Last-ditch attempt to help, typical of when the controller suspects loss of control is at play.

[@yippie21]

Yes. Especially with a experienced controller, anything to communicate a desired result

[@QemeH]

The thought process is probably something like: I can't figure out the problem for him and I can't fix anything mechanical from here - so on the off chance it's medical, I need to somehow keep him flying with simple instructions. [And "medical" can be anything from hypoxia to a stroke to a blackout to spatial disorientiation, etc...]

[@TWA-km9wt]

Not standard ATC communication. The controller at this point probably knew that something was wrong, as there was no response from the aircraft, after numerous attempts by the controller, to establish radio contact.

[@donmoore7785]

Doesn't seem "remarkable" other than the controller wants to be clear that he should stop descending immediately and is very concerned that he isn't.

[@TheJttv]

We had some really nasty weather roll through upstate NY yesterday

[@theetruth4267]

You’re lucky he didn’t park that shit bird through your house and 10 feet into your basement!

[@mikecournoyer]

Juan, Thanks for the 121.5 comment on comm 2. I fly single IFR all the time and nobody, including instructors has ever mentioned this. It makes sense.

[@bradsteele2013]

Sounds similar to TBM 700, N702H, unable to recover from a spin, which happened soon after starting decent into KMTJ, southwestern Colorado. 2014.

[@biketothetop]

Juan, very interesting analysis of the progression of events. I learned a lot of pilot stuff here. Pilot duty is very structured and for good cause. There are a lot of rules to follow because there is a lot of risk to manage. The rules are based on logical actions to keep everyone safe. When I was much younger I always thought piloting would be really cool because I love the visual perspective from the air. It wasn't so much about idea of being a pilot per se, but more about my love for the outdoors and the view of landscape with all its attributes. When I saw how much time and money to get a license, I never pursued it. I realized it would be a sustained major commitment of time to qualify and retain the pilot privilege... I spent my free time and money biking instead. It's so nice to have you review all this stuff, since it's your profession and post it for me to understand the intricacies of piloting and disasters. Thanks!

[@Dandoesac]

Mr. Brown I’m in Southwest Florida I met a lady tonight from Paradise California she showed me the pictures I explain to her what you are for aviation and fire safety protocol hopefully you got a new fan tonight

[@jebby6922]

Very good point you made with respect to insurance. Especially in the current market where owner flown turbines are seeing 30+% increases.

[@ToddLuvsGolf]

Very tragic what played out here. It’s painfully obvious he was not fully aware of what was going on. He failed to follow basic radio protocol by not acknowledging ATC instructions. Just his call sign back to them. Sounds like hypoxia or some other impairment. On TBM’s he would have simply updated autopilot with descend to altitude and heading...appears he turned off autopilot and lost control of the plane almost immediately. Truly sad.

[@wb6she]

Thanks Juan for a great explanation...very sad incident...

[@mervynmccracken]

New beard, new haircut, new glasses...... off to work I go ;-)

[@russell3380]

To tell us where the bear shit in the buckwheat.

[@codylapoint]

I think its a filter. It looks like one anyways which is comical from such a stoic all business type dude.

[@trishayamada807]

The music on this channel always makes me want to be up in an airplane going on an adventure. Love it! ♥️

[@lorialaways5827]

Really appreciating the info.

[@arshad8170]

It does give a better explanation ie listening to VAS aviation first and then your detailed video. Merci!

[@acw400]

Thanks for the great analysis. I fly a TBM and the plane can descent at a high rate of speed, like 6000' per minute, safely as long as the engine is idle and the speed is properly monitored. The big prop acts as an airbrake. This and being unresponsive on radio, I suspect hypoxia was a factor. Apparently he did not read back properly when asked to descent maintain 8000 (unless this was cut during editing). If he was lacking oxygen, it is possible that he started the descent with cruise power. That would overspeed the airframe quickly.

[@lesterawilson3]

The ATClive recordings are usually people feeding a scanner radio into the internet - so the radio could have been scanning through channels til it stopped on Barnes' last transmission. He sounded fairly business like and to the point in the recording. My guess is he wasn't watching air speed on his 5,000 fpm descent from 28,000.

[@DJ99777]

Awesome work Juan.

[@PowerArsenal]

The pilot was Stephen Barnes of Cellino & Barnes injury attorneys. Very reputable lawyer in the NY area. I can remember Their tv commercial jingle for 20 years now.

[@mikesliva4134]

Well done. Sad to hear about this accident. Hope we can learn from it. Situational awareness is always paramount.

[@jimbobthegr8840]

Sounds like premeditated carelessness rather than "accident" RIP

[@mikedoiron3372]

Been in the aviation business for almost 50 years with over 40 being in the safety and education side. Mixing professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc.) with high performance aircraft is always asking for trouble. I have met a few that were excellent pilots, but unfortunately the majority are not. Big egos and fat wallets will not make you a better pilot. I truly hope I'm wrong in this case but it's going to be very interesting when the NTSB looks at level and quality of training and actual hands on currency. Folks need to understand that this group of aircraft requires high level of skill, knowledge and currency. I personally flew for the government back in the day and when they restricted our hands on time to 48 hours a year, flying a corporate level jet, I stopped flying activities and soon left them because I had some serious concerns about being able to maintain real currency and not just the legatos level. Love the channel, Keep up the great work!!

[@madcratebuilder]

Retired ATC'er here, I started in a level II VFR tower, it didn't take long to learn that Doctors and Lawyers tend to be preoccupied, think they are infallible and operating a AC is a simple thing.

[@timcameron9023]

"When Lawyers Crash" unaware of the effects of such on the industry, makes sense.

[@tenpiloto]

Not only when they crash, but when ambulance chasers lock onto a GA crash. Started way back in the '70s. Extremely high rate of pilot error accidents that resulted in litigation against manufacturers. Greedy lawyers killed the GA affordable aircraft market.

[@HoundDogMech]

@@tenpiloto our 1977 C-172 full IFR was $25,300 with 100 hours on it had to replace the O320 H2AD at 377 hrs.

[@terryboyer1342]

Sad that his niece died.

[@tenpiloto]

HoundDogMech---not sure about the replacement relevance, but $25K in 1977 is $130K in today's $. A new 172 IFR equipped is well over $300K. Product liability lawsuits (which actually have been throttled back a bit by courts) account for much of that $170K difference.

[@HoundDogMech]

@@tenpiloto talk about dollar value first lesson in june of '7 was $10/ hr wet tach time in a 4 seat Aero Commander Darter and $5 for the instructor. I was making $2/hr so I had to work 10 hours for 1 hour of instruction.

[@SkyBaum]

Great video @Blancolirio, just heard the audio yesterday from @vasaaviation! Next time you have a change to talk to the Aerial Firefighting folks please do a video on Helicopter Aerial Firefighting . Be nice to see what it takes to get into that part of the industry. Thanks in advance:)

[@johnblecker4206]

Thank you a again.

[@Indy1977TX]

After missing the last one before it got the ads pulled, I tried to watch this one as soon as I saw it. Several commercial breaks, hope that helps JB!

[@martharetallick204]

Juan, I like the new glasses.

[@amateurshooter6054]

Thanks Juan

[@kenclark9888]

Juan the 850 is a slick plane and he obviously got well behind the plane. I am wondering with his what looks like little time in that aircraft what really happened with those radios. Did he mess it up himself or was there indeed an issue. As a pilot who routinely flies single pilot IFR on part 135 I keep 121.5 in comm 2 all the time like you said and it is a good plan. Will be interesting to see what comes of this

[@paul-johncharron7748]

THANKS. JUAN.....WELL DONE BROTHER....WE WANT SAFE AIR.

[@rodneyowen1850]

There were actually commercials on this video when I watched it, Juan. Very surprising.

[@DavidDavid-jb1cy]

he didn't say this video was demonetized.

[@rodneyowen1850]

@@DavidDavid-jb1cy All of Juan's other videos on aircraft accidents have been demonetized. That's why this one was a surprise. They'll probably demonetize it later.

[@markprange4386]

The pilot was unnecessarily rushing himself. There was no urgent need to get down. The descent was begun late, but ATC was acommodating and making allowances. The situation wasn't as bad as the pilot thought it was. Just follow the vectors out the downwind as far as need be.

[@Flyboyed]

FAA does not fly the airplane. Do whatever you have to do to stay alive and the rest can be discussed on the ground. This is starting to look like a rich lawyer error.

[@andytaylor1588]

Thanks Juan. I was wondering what was going on with the pilot, as he seemed unconcerned and not forthcoming. I suspect hypoxia, gauging by his inadequate responses.

[@Reach41]

That's what I'm thinking.

[@wewd]

Not the first depress incident involving the TBM if that turns out to be the case.

[@i.r.wayright1457]

@@wewd It's going to be hard to investigate that angle. It made a fair sized crater in the ground according to the policeman interviewed on TV.

[@aviation3530]

I don't like to speculate, however if it was due to hypoxia, I seem to remember another TBM hypoxia accident (which was brand new at the time) a few years ago. I believe it was a husband and wife enroute to Florida from NY and eventually the plane went down after fuel was exhausted.

[@jeffreyrosinbaum9636]

Hypoxia seems unlikely. Once you're knocked out, you're likely not coming back unless you get to a lower altitude (or get on oxygen). And if you do, you aren't forming coherent sentences.

[@njc1205]

I noticed something seemed wrong when the pilot stopped reading back ATC instructions , and just kept answering with his call sign..

[@joeg5414]

Yup. I think its because he didn't understand what they wanted and was hoping to just figure it out as he went.

[@raoulcruz4404]

Often the case with mental saturation. Interesting that ATC asked is everything ok.

[@ekbusdriver]

ATC did not say anything that required a read back, so acknowledgment with only the call sign was good, and actually helps cut back on all the useless BS some pilots spew on transmissions.

[@raoulcruz4404]

@@ekbusdriver "descend and maintain 8,000" requires a readback.

[@tomcorwine3091]

I once was listening to ATC while plane spotting at an airport. I heard a pilot from a major airline say, “I’m confused. I think I misunderstood something and aren’t doing what you told me to. I’m on heading _x_ and at _y_ feet. What are you expecting?” I’m paraphrasing as it was many years ago when I started my flight training. It helped me a lot to hear an experienced pilot admit he was unsure of the situation and fess up that he may of made a mistake.

[@tenpiloto]

Your summary statement soooo on the mark! Hear, hear!!

[@TheJttv]

Celleno and Barnes just went through a messy firm breakup. Also at one point Cellino lost their legal bar license for 6 months. Very very well know across NYS with their commercials and 888-8888 number

[@blancolirio]

Jttv Yep! Major distractions!

[@MikeB0001]

@@blancolirio the new Barnes firm was to be active 9 Oct...what timing!?

[@barbaralane9825]

Sadly ironic “The firm's practice focuses on multiple areas, including airplane accidents, dog bites, and wrongful death, according to their website.”

[@nancychace8619]

@@barbaralane9825 Rather strange irony. Any chance this was anything other than an accident?

[@Garth2011]

Personal Injury (wrongful death) claim to be handled by their own law firm? Ironic.

[@Igbon5]

It did help my understanding, thanks.

[@japc4326]

The pilot did not follow radio rules...when handed off he should have kept radio 2 on the old freq and radio 1 to whatever he thought was the assigned freg and leap frog your radio as needed....or at least just kept 1 radio on 121.5. As an ISL rated pilot he should have know as he was about 100 miles out that he would be given decent instructions soon, when at 70 miles from his landing point, he should have been calling center to find out why he has not. Pilot error, failure to maintain flight control and procedures.

[@rocketman7774]

Experience: Boeing 787,777,767,757, 737, Airbus A320, Naval Flight School Grad, Navy T34 Flight Instructor, Coast Guard Falocn20, GA Aircraft, roughly 18K Flight Hours. Upon further review The crash site details now indicate that plane hit a swamp in a nose low attitude at an excessive rate of speed so much so, it was submerged 10 to 20 feet in the thick watery mud. Essentially, the plane decelerated from a radar airspeed readout of 440kts (>500mph) to 0 in roughly 20 feet. The occupants were, on impact, sandwiched between the massive engine coming at them from the front and the rear structure piling on top of them all in a nano second. The entire crash was then covered almost immediately with water and mud - hence no post crash fire. This reminds me of the AirTran accident back in the 1993. I was a Coast Guard Falcon 20 search and rescue pilot based in Miami. The AirTran DC9 went down in the Everglades while the Falcon and Dalphine Helicopter were performing for the Fort Lauderdale airshow. ATC notified the crew and they immediate dispatched to the scene with the Falcon arriving on scene within minutes. My fellow Falcon Pilots reported that they saw nothing. They were miffed. When the HH65 arrived on scene, they too saw nothing and then lowered their altitude to roughly 30 feet and began scouring the area for any signs. A crew member spotted a small area where the saw grass seem to part away and as they flew closer, there was a hint of steam and a few small pieces of debris. The Everglades swallowed the entire wreck. The thing to look at in this investigation is the ADS-B speed readout. It’s erratic. This could mean a couple of things. First, the aircraft was experiencing what we call an Airspeed Unreliable condition. This happens when either you have a failure of your Air Data Computer (ADC) or a failure of the inputs to your ADC. The second condition is the equipment that transmits or receives the data is faulty. The investigation will sort this out. If there were issues involving the accuracy of the airspeed information presented to the pilot, this could cause major issues for a professional pilot and prove deadly for a part time pilot. I speak from experience. We were flying a 767 from Moscow, Russia to Washington DC in day VFR conditions. We had entered the Track System and coasted out over the ocean. I was reading something when out of the corner of my eye, both throttles began moving forward uncommanded and the nose began to pitch up. I said "What’s happening"? The captain grabbed the controls, addded more power and increased the climb saying were were 400 feet low and 50 kts slow. I looked at my instruments and said we are 300 feet high and ready to overspeed the jet. We both immediately called out "standby" and referenced our standby altimeter and airspeed indicators. It was clear the captains instruments were wrong and my instruments were correct. I immediately took control, turned off the autopilot, leveled the wings, reduced power, lowered the nose getting back on course, altitude and airspeed. We called our maintenance personnel via satcom, switched the captains ADC source to my source which eventually cleared up the problem, and continued with the flight. Our experience, training, systems knowledge, etc. helped us deal with this problem in a professional safe manner. We were lucky too that this occurred during daylight hours where we could see the ground and sky. The situation would have been more complicated if we were flying at night or in the weather with no reference to the ground. The interesting thing was the left autopilot, which was in use, references the left pilots (captains) instruments. Once it sensed the captains airspeed and altitude were both low, it added power and began the climb uncommanded eve though everything was fine. Every accident has many links that form a chain. We are always taught to recognize the links as they are slowly built and break the chain before it breaks you. The bottom line is if Mr. Barnes experienced an airspeed unreliable condition, in the clouds, with no other pilot there to assist, with no tech support available, the links were being built. The high performance nature of the aircraft and his experience level to manage this performance are also links in the chain. Human factors must also be taken into account. Was he fatigued, did he have personal issues the morning before the flight, was he flustered, in a hurry, did he eat, etc. All these factors are considered when looking at the safety chain. The key is to recognize the links as they build the chain and have the wisdom to break the chain and prevent the accident. This only comes with time, humility, and experience. Rule number one when becoming a professional pilot ....... check your ego at the door. As the old saying goes, there are bold pilots and there are old pilots, but there are no old bold pilots. Fly safe and God Bless.

[@stevet8121]

I watch a lot of aviation channels and for the life of me I can very seldom understand the control tower when they speak. They sound like they're doing crank. Take a breath and slow down. Some pilots are the same.

[@apackwestbound5946]

Understanding ATC (Air Traffic Control) communications is an acquired skill that comes from experience. It takes years of experience to function well in an intensely busy sector like Boston. I can understand it being difficult and confusing. With exposure and experience "understand the control tower when they speak" gets easier to understand. This is another area Juan does a great job, taking the mystery out of it and explaining things well in layperson's terms.

[@stevet8121]

@@apackwestbound5946 Thank you for the response. I agree, Juan is wonderful at explaining what we are hearing and looking at. It's why I like his channel going back to the Oroville Dam crisis.

[@donnyboy2589]

Thanks for saying this. I was thinking I’m the only one having difficulty. 🧐

[@jameslehnert5054]

@@stevet8121 Also, the audio quality of LiveATC.net is not the greatest. The actual ATC audio inside the cockpit is MUCH clearer.

[@Aerostar509]

On a typical flight you will come to know what should be the next communication from ATC, everything is standard unless there is a problem or weather issue. When you are ahead of the aircraft you are just waiting for the next command from ATC, turn, decent, slowdown etc.

[@BrianB14471]

One minor correction: Juan said at the beginning "prominent NYC attorney" which is incorrect. While they have NYC area offices, they are actually based in Buffalo in WNY.

[@MaShcode]

The Cellino & Barnes jingle plays after NYC metro traffic reports to the point where at least half the population prob has it memorized. My condolences to the families and especially thoughts go out to the ATC controllers involved. Unfortunate but everyone will need to lawyer up on this one.

[@geofiggy]

Interesting information JB. Thanks. Always learning from you. Nice haircut (by Jenny?). You clean up real good. Take care and fly safe. 🖖🏽🤟🏽

[@barryolaith]

Sad hey both died, the young woman passenger in particular. Even before Juan said it, I thought now her family will sue his estate, using a big law firm, and his law firm will contest. They'll both sue the radio manufacturer, the company that did the last service, Buffalo ATC, the firm that sold him the aircraft and the guy who cleans the floor in the hanger. The law firms will make hundreds of thousands of dollars, the families will get millions of dollars, and subsequent generations of nieces and nephews will be trust fund educated (and become lawyers). And every Christmas at family gatherings they'll raise a toast to their dead uncle and aunt who paid for it all by dying in a plane crash.

[@robertbennett6697]

WRONG! The law firms will make millions also.

[@billpotmesil]

Like the new look! As always very interesting!

[@arthenry498]

Again!! If this is demonitised, why am I seeing so many ads in it?? I think what you tube is doing is bordering on criminal. (not to mention STUPID)

[@paulmadruga9786]

Yes, completely agree!

[@stephenrich3029]

The video won’t be immediately demonetized, the last vid (KC135 incident) wasn’t demonetized until after more than an day of uptime I believe

[@calopii]

These f..ken mid roll ads are driving me NUTS.

[@russell3380]

I'll just go ahead and call it theft.

[@wayned1807]

You have a choice to go with KZbin Premium that's free of ads for about $10 a month. Also there is free software that blocks the ads. Do a search.

[@432b86ed]

As usual, compelling stuff, well presented, Juan. KZbin (Google) probably has enough money to pay everyone on earth. Generously compensating those who present original and popular content here should be a given. Best regards

[@ritaloy8338]

Cellino and Barns was also well known injury Attorneys in the Greater Los Angeles Area and The San Francisco Bay Area for their TV commercials before the breakup of the law firm.

[@JonathanSchwab2002]

Thanks for your wise comments!

[@stuartsmith8349]

Lack of proficiency is likely a factor. Looking back at the flight history of the aircraft, only about 9 hrs of flying in the last 3 months.

[@ouivalerie]

Yeah, is it a lawyer or a pilot? Oh both? figure he peaked out. Someone needed him to crash to collect.....move money around....money makes things happen.....

[@brentsummers7377]

And a lot easier to keep on top of things when flying something simpler and slower & lower like a Cessna 172 or Piper Warrior etc.

[@tropicthndr]

Yea it’s obvious, shoving the nose over destroyed the plane. We’re not interested in people who willingly destroy their planes hoping it will stay together, I’m more interested in the United pilot and his new bride that cashed in Telluride in their V tail Bonanza the other day, that’s a “real” tragedy we all can feel.

[@ronarnott1801]

Thanks. I fly the TBM 850. So sad for the pilot and his niece.

[@goldcfi7103]

This is why the insurance rates on owner-flown turbo props and jets has recently tripled. Recommendation: Professional grade aircraft should be flown by a professional pilot. No disrespect intended to the PIC of the accident aircraft.

[@duketoofor3098]

Sad irony. Personal injury attorney dies in a personal injury accident.

[@lyleparadise2764]

Sounds to me like he got " behind the aurcraft " because he had trouble with the nav/radio systems. At 300TAS, things happen very fast and if your not ready ( or properly trained ) with your onboard systems , things like this will happen,

[@kvan27]

Just a correction for you, the aircraft was a 2009 TBM 700 not 2016. It was purchased by Steve in 2016

[@etjason1]

Here in New York its reported TBM 700. Well know injury lawyers here.

[@motorcopjoe]

The TBM 850 is also known as the TBM 700N. I fly the 850. Just a variant with some small upgrades.

[@virginiatolles1664]

Thank you, Mr. Gryder, for explaining. You're right to develop a plan to better prepare private pilots. From all appearances, they simply know too little to feel comfortable flying in abnormal situations. A military pilot trains full time for a minimum of two years before s/he is put to work in the air. Too many mistakes (and the allowance is very slim), and out they go to ground duty. Maybe private pilot training should be just as strict. With so many planes in the air, we don't have room for frightened newbies using bad judgment.