Proxmox VE vs. XenServer Plus OpenXenManager for Linux - Hak5 1820

[@baltmatrix]

My company has been using Xenserver for a few years now to great effect. It's been working so well in fact that I'm considering taking out our ESX 4 and replacing it with Xen (instead of paying for the esx upgrade). Darren, what laptop are you using now? You were on an older Lenovo but that laptop looks like a either an X1 or a Dell XPS 13.

[@cdoublejj]

***** doesn't SSH and web management cost money on ESXi/VMware?

[@fmslickful]

+cdoublejj Yes

[@dvanremortel]

What's the possibility to take the virtualization discussion to the next step. VDI? I'm working on a VDI strategy with work, BUT I'd like to see some open source solutions in action. I found some references to ulteo but have not tried it. cheers

[@srvadmin9503]

I've been debating between Proxmox and Xenserver. I'm migrating from VirtualBox. I tried both Proxmox and Xenserver and so far I'm leaning towards Proxmox as I can quickly migrate VM's from VirtualBox to Proxmox. I can convert VDI and VMDK into QCOW2 and copy them over using a flash drive VS with Xenserver the only way I can migrate is over the network using Xen Center import feature. Is there any better way to migrate VM's to Xenserver?

[@05zacwhi]

I must ask how would you set up arch linux for pentesting/forensics use. I currently use kali but I want a more bare bones system with more of a I have control on every detail feel.

[@JoelWilhiteKD6W]

If the tow company uses their dispatch radio to transact business, they have the right but as pointed out by the observer, ANY person with a receiver is free to receive public airwaves without incrimination, its public airwaves in America. But the smart person would realize the dispatch radio is for just that, and not for handling credit cards and quickly hand the tow driver their smart phone and let them transact over that system (so the NSA can swipe your private data) as it is more we secure. Though there are digital radios which are secure against analog receivers, there are now digital receivers (scanners) which can now decode clear digital. But with the flip of a switch, the digital system can go scrambled much easier than trying to obscure an analog system.

[@JamesThoenes]

It's more than that: Business band radio channels are shared frequencies. There may be many other businesses using that same frequency and repeaters in that area. All of which can hear those conversations when the squelch is off. This is like shouting out the card numbers in a crowded room of strangers. There is no privacy.

[@tallgeese1]

Is Hyper-V on par feature wise with the virtualization products you mentioned here?

[@WizardNumberNext]

You cannot install KVM as such It is part of kernel and it is either built or not. It is not matter of installing. You can install supporting software

[@onyxhammerhead6499]

Proxmox did not work for me, it installs host verly slowly and console access is terribly slow, not sure if it was misconfigured.

[@ThibaudLopezSchneider]

Bummer. I missed the pentest event. Where/when was it announced so I can tune in for the next one?

[@WhitentonMike]

I've been running Proxmox for several years on my home server. I watched a couple of episodes of TekSyndicate where they made a very compelling case for FreeNAS using ZFS. I have one Windows Server VM and one Windows Desktop VM. There are Jails for VIrtualBox so Windows VMs etc are doable. If I make the move to FreeNAS it will be next month most likely. I will be switching to 16GB ECC memory and an AMD FX-6300. 6x2TB HDDs and 2x60GB SSDs for caching I have on hand. Any gotchas I should be aware of?

[@vincentvandermeijden9481]

Would love to see an update on this item!

[@J2897Tutorials]

12:44 Couldn't we just script the updates? I've wrote many Python update scripts. See "J2897 TOR Updater" (GitHub or Pastebin).

[@davidprock904]

What if I want to create my own Linux phone, like an example of the Librem 5, but better, and for the Linux do something similar/ like qubes os

[@Lagggerengineering]

Finally somebody with a nice, short intro animation. I instantly like these guys!

[@darthnael]

TL:DR: Yes, if it's open airwaves which most company radio traffic is. It's perfectly legal to listen to. Transmitting on any frequency that requires a specific license from the FCC without a proper permit however, is illegal! The FCC has bands of frequences carved up for different types of traffic, and permits can be aquired based on the needs of the individual or company. As for PCI-- they could get into trouble if the FCC were to have heard their conversation or if someone who knew that company's unique information reported them openly relaying CC information. I can transmit on certain Amature/HAM frequencies, but only ones that my level of license designate. This is just a comment on open air wave audio traffic. As long as the communication is broadcast over the open air whether on public frequencies or even business/private frequencies it's totally legal to listen in. It's one of the main reasons that a lot of public first response has moved to microwave closed system radios. it offers some voice encryption, and requires special setup equipment and authorization to access that network. Hope this was helpful!

[@DarinLawsonHosking]

Hey Hak5 for the problem of OpenXenManager not doing updates also as huge admin plus just drop salt into the mix. SaltStack does all your devops tasks quick and painless.

[@buildfrom]

Can you advise how to go about getting OpenXenManager installed on a Windows box please? Thank you.

[@AlteHotte]

Where do you get your Club Mate from? Self-Imported?

[@BowenMarmot]

Definitely Proxmox for me. Running a 2 node cluster at home and the live migration is tremendous. I am using 6-7 yr old consumer hardware (2 core cpu, 6 GB ram) running 6-10 VMs of linux and Windows depending on what I am playing with. I have tried many different shared filesystems over the last few years but ultimately settled on a homebrew NAS and NFS, primarily for performance.

[@CarsAndGadgetsAu]

Hi Darren, I trusted my techno budget and went Hyper-V (yes I know the while of the KZbin commenters just bood me) but since Windows Server 2012 R2 came along and considering we get it for next to nothing being an education institution, I've really grown to love it. We use Hyper-V clustering and it just works.

[@jcusantos]

You're correct. In an Enterprise environment, ESXi is King. We've tried to deploy XenServer in an Enterprise environment and many anomalies happened; loss of network binds (literally just disappeared... poof), dom0 maxing out on primary hypervisor host hosing the whole cluster, etc. This has probably been fixed as I've deployed it earlier 2010-2012. I would most definitely use XenServer for home lab use to avoid licensing and fees... save a lot of $$$$

[@ItsTonyAldo]

Where do you guys get all those stickers? I want some.

[@basmagic]

Is it legal to use Proxmox (I'm in EU region) without a license to sell VPS to customers through Proxmox? The license is just for support right?

[@unijabnx2000]

You gonna show us in the next video how to put them (the remaining NUC's) in a cluster/high availability setup?

[@FrankBarcenas]

VE 4 no longer uses openvz. It uses LXC.

[@WizardNumberNext]

Oh thank you for letting me know. I was thinking about proxmox. Now I can discard it from listy of interests. I use bare qemu/KVM from command line therefore proxmox would be limiting factor.

[@MultiMegaMaxx]

5 euro is like 6 dollars....

[@yuudai1400]

Love the show guys, this is K7SAK. That was definitely a commercial enterprise, because HAM radio cannot be used for pecuniary interest. That being said, I think it was a huge mistake to air credit card info. Darren is right, that puts it out there for anyone to hear, and it is completely legal to hear (if it was supposed to be hidden, it would be encrypted or kept off the air).

[@crimsonbytes]

I can compare the whole ham radio credit card number thing with sitting in a restaurant and overhearing someone spewing their credit card number over the phone to pay a bill. You'll get one of two responses when you tell the person "You shouldn't rattle off your credit card number in public where anyone can write it down." One, you'll get an "oh crap" or two, you'll get a "You shouldn't be listening!" The legality is cut and dry for me. It's in a public space, and therefore me calling them out is not only legal, but should be encouraged. Several years ago before they changed their system I called out my local Subway for taking their credit card receipts with full numbers and just impaling them on the receipt spike where anyone could grab it. Their response, put it under the counter until I leave. Full disclosure would have won out there.

[@ncbmullan]

Proxmox VE 4.0 has now switched from OpenVZ to LXC (www.linuxcontainers.org) now for container management. To me this is great news...

[@ELGee1]

when will we see the server pool with live migration

[@MelodicMurder]

For business server virtualization i would recommend Vmware ESXi for the main reason that when you buy it you also buy support. This way if the day ever comes when shit hits the fan you have someone call for help. If you cant fix it when it breaks you will lose your job.

[@sirishgi2597]

What can I do with my virtulization machine?

[@benjiepr]

No matter if i go to proxmox site or to citrix site, both software require licensing. It there a way to download the xenserver software?

[@majorkuso6720]

+Benjamin Alvarez go to xenserver.org/

[@KenDogNI]

The question about the CC# over open air was interesting.. im in the UK and theres hosting company (a very well known world wide company) and there sending pocsag data with usernames and passwords for servers.. interesting stuff eh ;)

[@matthiasurankar6354]

When it come to the Army we classify in 2 ways. Plain text: this is unencrypted radio communications. Anyone can intercept and hear it. The other is cypher text: this includes many security features that I can't talk about. Just know that its secure (mostly). Every day Joe's can't intercept the communications.

[@the_original_dreamer]

im setting up xen today for a networking test lab... thanks guys

[@Alex-je6od]

XenServer is pretty solid and is my favorite esx killer. The windows only console is normally what kills it though.

[@Utking3]

Tried XenOchestra? It's free from sources :)

[@D3ltaLabs]

I hope you keep running the courses indef, I won't be able to make it to the states for some time, and would love to attend one..

[@captaink118]

My big complaint with Proxmox is their docs are extremely out of date.

[@SuperKotatube]

proxmox 4 docs are very up to date

[@adamcopley7418]

Hi Guys, firstly great show, as always. I've been watching HAK5 for the last couple of years over here in he UK. Anyway I work for a digital media company and recently we've started to look at openstack. Have you considered this for your virtual environment? Adam

[@BobbyEshleman]

5 years later in 2020, you can't have a conversation about Proxmox and XenServer without also mentioning XCP-ng and Xen Orchestra. If you're looking for a virtualization platform that is open source / free, XCP-ng / XO are definitely worth looking at. Lawrence Systems has great videos on it. Full disclosure that I am an engineer on XCP-ng.

[@markkelley2981]

So why can't you bundle XO with XCP-ng? That way it would give comparable functionality to ESXi, Proxmox.

whats the yellow usb port number? usb 4? cus blue is usb 3! lol

[@nahoskins]

Was using ltsp for a computer lab. Will look into xen, looks simple enough!

[@masterblaster3397]

can i use a vm server as a pxe server to boot other machines from? probably a simple question.. i would just like to know ahead of hours on messing around... starting now anways lol... cheers guys

[@awake31337]

On the SDR tow company credit card thing.. The very first thing they should do is find out the law regarding radio in that area. If it's illegal to be listening to those frequencies in that area, then (in the eyes of the tow company) you shouldn't have been listening and that's all the security they need. If receiving is legal, and in most places it usually is, then certainly do it anonymously. Personally, I would lie and say I was listening to an antique AM/FM radio and heard it, because then the mindset of "This person is eavesdropping with his illegal tech stuff" changes to "Oh crap, I wonder how many other people hear it too." And that's the reaction your really looking for.

[@trilobyte3851]

Just don't give cc number to the driver but you call directly to the dispatcher - you cant force a change of policy in other people's companies...

[@johnshellenbergerteacher]

Can I have your PenTest training camp teaching materials? I want to host one here in my village in Thailand. Thanks,

[@WizardNumberNext]

You misrepresent KVM and Xen Both can do full virtualization and paravirtualization and even mix of both like PVonHVM or even other way around (virtualised devices on fully virtualised machine) You even do not do over simplification, you just misrepresent those solution

[@HorukaMorishima]

In my privat lab and in business i have used vmware ... but the last 3 years we only use hyper-v, doenst matter if the free version which cost nothing (yes ms software for free!) or the full licence. Live Migration and Replication is so easy and solid, without extra payments.

[@JasonCtutorials]

I used to not know what you guys were talking about. 5 years laters I do. I blame learning programming. haha!

you dont need to be a ham to get a ham book and learn the rules and stuff just go on amazon and order 3 ham radio books for all 3 levels in your country!

[@v1rtu4l]

i am a little late to the party it seems, but let's just note that your description of paravirtualization is incorrect and might lead people to think about it in a very wrong way.

[@TheRangeControl]

whew... no episode number in title... No wonder I couldn't find episode "1820" after viewing 1819.

[@1mrhamel]

OK timeout... Xen PV can run PyGRUB inside the VM so the VM can have its own configured kernel, initrd and other special parameters. It's used like that all the time. Also Xen PV does not share the actual running kernel with any other VM's, they each boot their own copy of the kernel if you define it in the config file. Fun Fact: *NIX is better with KVM and Windows is better with Xen HVM (with the virtio drivers installed) As for radio communication, it is possible to encrypt transmissions if they so choose to but reading it over the air for anyone to pick up with a scanner... wow. I should also say that the encrypted technology used with certain radio manufactures, it can be decrypted.

[@AdHdEntertainmentLLC]

working on my degree in computer forensics and love following you guys but I am in Philly so I cant join you for pentesting.

[@NowPleaseNot]

Dont forget the MOST IMPORTENT part KVM and thus proxmox makes it possible to use PCIe/GPU passthrough. THE SOLUTION if you whant to run BSD/linux on your workstation but then easy and superquick launch a windows game without restarting etc. you only loose 2-3% CPU power and NO GPU power with passthrough.

[@katanasteel]

I really liked the ESXi's ease for setting up bare metal Virtualization... however I hear that they are currently in a GPL violation lawsuit in Germany... so now i don't know.... I currently primarily use kvm on CentOS these days.

[@RichardBuckerCodes]

There is a problem trying to get the intel nuc to startup that was not addressed. Here are the instructions when trying to boot other OS. www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/boards-and-kits/000005471.html

[@YuriMoore]

Listening to signals over the air, as long as they weren't encrypted, is publicly available information with no expectation of privacy.

[@SindicatoLinux]

Proxmox for Fun and Profit! Great work!

[@therealdjflip]

encrypted radio is the answer

[@therealdjflip]

flip failing that RDLAP or data terminals

[@tcindie]

Geez, that screencap was apparently recorded with a potato.

[@tectubedk]

esxi is the good old safe way but i think xenserver will take over

[@buerger3]

Citrix Xenserver really seems to me have a bad stand on the market. Despite the fact that it is really good, has a better performance and is cheaper from a licensing point compared to vmwares vsphere (you can even install it private and comercially for free), does not mean that it grows much in marketshare. Aaaand no, i am not affiliated with Citrix, i am just a I-Techi :D Well, i guess the old german saying fits:"What the farmer doesn´t know, he doesn´t eat!". :P

[@88888shibu]

buerger3 it is cheaper.. but is the performance better? I saw a video where someone said Xen server took ~1Gb of memory compared to 175Mb of ram with ESXi on the same hardware.

[@myozone]

In the UK you not 'supposed' to receive anything you don't have a licence for ...

[@mridulmridul]

VMWARE needs to change if not they are going to be another NOKIA.

[@RichardBuckerCodes]

While proxmox looks like an interesting platform and there are a few features that really caught my attention there is one serious flaw in the segment. LICENSING. The proxmox ve project is licensed under AGPL which is the absolute worst of all of the GPL options. That said, I was influenced to make an Intel NUC i5 6th gen yesterday. I loaded it with 32GB DDR4 and 500GB SSD. My only complaint is that the BIOS failed to configure the ethernet port so that I could update the BIOS. It also took a lot of BIOS setup to get it to boot the OS I installed. First Ubuntu 14.04, then 15.10, and finally CoreOS.

[@SuperMarkusparkus]

There is nothing wrong with AGPL.

[@RichardBuckerCodes]

Not sure if that was rhetorical or not... AGPL is for non-commercial use-only and also covers "as a service" businesses. So you should check out the commercial pricing before you begin as there are some more free with cheaper production costs.

[@SuperMarkusparkus]

AGPL is a free software license so you can use it for commercial use as long as you comply with the license. Just like with other free and open source software licenses.

[@RichardBuckerCodes]

Just because it has GPL in the title you should actually read it: "Both versions of the Affero GPL were designed to close a perceived application service provider (ASP) loophole in the ordinary GPL, where, by using but not distributing the software, the copyleft provisions are not triggered." -- wikipedia

[@SuperMarkusparkus]

AGPL does not prohibit commercial use.

[@tecragegaming8690]

Despite the price i use vmware esxi 6.0.0 with vCenter.

[@JasonBailey76]

Anything can be listened to over the air. Sdr is nothing more then a fancy scanner. Scanners are totally legal from a FCC standpoint. If you say it on the radio, it is in the public domain. Same as over the air TV. I would say that saying the CC number over the air, IMO, should be a felony. Not cool. Cell phone coms would be more secure then radio. Even that is iffy IMO.

[@JasonBailey76]

KG7RZX

[@redfox-80]

esxi is great, but very expensive in enterprise environments.

[@zakariajouimaa]

bla bla bla , with no single info good

[@chaplinux]

... very much bla bla bla! aff dislike!

[@WizardNumberNext]

very much blah blah blah their info is to put it mildly wrong 5eur makes "50 dollars or something like that" in USA claim like "VirtualBox,which is desktop virtualization system" is utterely WRONG - please read manual and make such statement again and I shall call you analphabetic (for clarification - person who cannot read with understanding) I have used VMware WorkStation (this is desktop one!) from version 3 (I have access to free time-unlimited beta-testing VMware Workstation), KVM, Xen, VirtualBox and who knows what else. I did not use anything like OpenVZ or any other virtual server How can you compare OpenVZ to Xen or KVM? This is nothing similar (even remotely) maybe we shall compare UML to Xen? Are nuts?

[@TUnit959]

But Shannon, it's Canada Day :(

[@fmslickful]

At the end of the day its all about what you prefer? lol

[@WizardNumberNext]

I disagree I understand you have not read VirtualBox manual, as you claim it "desktop" virtualization You cannot be further from truth Basically you can do pretty much everything what you can do VMware, KVM, Xen and HyperV on VirtualBox and there is no requirement for any window (graphics)

[@lilp4p1]

Jesus! I am eating a salad while watching this and my salad is amazing!!!!!!! love ur videos btw

[@abes.4040]

He drives a Ford F-150.

[@derikdietel]

Soda.... Is snubs having a baby?

[@globaltalent1868]

Cool

[@ВасяПупкин-ь4о4г]

He drinks beer?

[@FrankBarcenas]

To bad their isn't a LITE version of the episodes, too much non essential chatter, about nail polish and other such nonsense.

[@nowpwning]

does Darren wear braces?

[@Caxap2212]

Oh for the love of God! WHY YOU BLA BLA BAL so much^

[@a3-82]

wow.. u have "big" server

[@charlesdean03]

I just searched this and what a load of BS.... Proxmox always had the free repos I mean WTF man if you call yourself a learning channel dont give false information!!! its been about 5 years to this nonsense video and man I accidentally jumbled on to it was the last nail on the coffin.

[@a14266]

why can't you just tabulate it out ? rather than keep talking talking..

[@DarrenRainey]

3rd !

[@bee8396]

first

[@Captain-Smokey]

well if tow truck driver was use their own frequencies but it stupid to say stuff like u say air open heheh

[@FrankBarcenas]

To bad their isn't a LITE version of the episodes, too much non essential chatter, about nail polish and other such nonsense.