Prusa XL - 0.6mm vs 0.4mm Nozzle Comparison

[@handsofrhythm3415]

30 seconds in and you give it to me straight. That's why I stay for the other 18 mins. Clear, accurate, to the point information. Don't stop this train, you are awesome.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Ha, thanks! I just want more people riding the train, tell your friends.

[@lattitude01]

I completely agree. no beating around the bush. just straight answer and then some honest comparisons so you can see for yourself if the differences are going to matter for your use case.

[@ratlinuxgamer2855]

Thanks for not doing a click bait video!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Right?! There's already plenty of that on KZbin already. Sure, it might get me more clicks, but I need to be able to live with myself ;-)

[@s0d4c4n]

But I wanted a status update on your beard and the backstory of the fire extinguisher in the background

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@s0d4c4nHA! I mean, my beard grows out of my face. Not much of a backstory there. As for the fire extinguisher, my lasers are to the right of where the extinguisher is mounted, so it's nice to have there. It's also close to the door going outside.

[@seanrohde5477]

No kidding. Well organized and the big info was shared right at the beginning

[@Clough42]

​@@RobertCowanDIYNext to the door is good design for the extinguisher. You have one place to run and a few extra seconds to decide whether to run or fight.

[@ygk3d]

Nice video Robert. Thanks for the shoutout! I’ll be sticking with 0.6 mm nozzles on my XL for now. I have other printers I’ll use for fine detail stuff. The 0.6 shaves some time off the objects I normally print (flat signs), so it’s worth it for me to stay with it. With the latest firmware releases and dropping the temperature 10 degrees, the stringing is minimal and the overall quality is quite acceptable for me with the 0.6.

[@Shadrackc]

Complete agree. I have other printers for small fine prints and this is to do larger objects that need the .6 for print times.

[@Murgoh]

The same thing with me, I have a fast printer with a 0.6mm nozzle for the big prints and a slower one with 0.4 for smaller stuff with more detail. 0.6mm is just so much faster,especially as it allows bigger layer height too. And in a big part, especially one of geometrical shape, the difference in resolution is really not that obvious.

[@MrUntermieter]

Thank you for the video - you got a new subscriber just by your honest introduction and not clickbaiting.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Thanks! I'm really trying to avoid the clickbait crap. Just because it works doesn't mean it should be encouraged.

[@DataCab1e]

Prusa now agrees with you. Starting yesterday, all XLs ship with .4 nozzles, and existing XL owners get a 30% discount on nextruder nozzles.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Nice! It's a real shame they didn't give people the option, but I feel like people would have just gotten the 0.6mm nozzles and then had issues with it. But at least we would have figured out sooner.

[@hitf5]

I got the 5 tool XL and I have been running the 0.4mm nozzles from the very start and have not had any issues with stringing at all. I keep one of the tools at 0.6mm so I have it ready for large models. My only complaint was that Prusa did not allow me to purchase more than 2 hardened nozzles in the same order so I had to place 3 orders and they flat out refused to combine the orders even though all 5 nozzles would easily fit in one box and they shipped at the exact same time. But this is typical with their customer service in my experience. This all being said, having a tool changer has made a very large difference with how I make models now. I am no longer worried about avoiding overhangs or making multi-color options while trying to avoid the waste and time issues with multicolor on the X1. I would like to thank Robert for this excellent channel. I always feel like I am watching a professional educator and filmmaker when watching him.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Awww, thank you! Tell all your friends! Like, comment, share, something about a bell?

[@grepmonkey]

I grabbed 5x 0.4mm and 0.6mm ObXidian nozzles on Black Friday and had to do the same 3x orders. I understand the attempt to ration sales but when all it takes to bypass this is to make multiple orders it is kind of pointless. Fingers crossed that the ObXidian nozzles don't throw a wrench in the works and I see the same quality results.

[@hitf5]

I have had no quality hits when using the hardened nozzles, I anticipate that I will never need to change them@@grepmonkey . I got them because I regularly use CF, GF or glow filaments.

[@kipsimpson2332]

I wish people like you were running the country. I really appreciate your even and open-minded take in your videos. Thank you for these tips! I have an XL on order for next year.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

HA! Thanks, I appreciate it. If it makes you feel any better, I'm a CEO for a tech company as my day job. So I'm technically running something. ;-)

[@kipsimpson2332]

@RobertCowanDIY Please tell me three of your favorite leadership books. I'm newly in a similar role (not tech) and would be interested in what a fellow like yourself would suggest.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@kipsimpson2332It depends on what you're trying to do. Most business books are just there to get you excited and to frankly sell books... Shoot me an email (you can find it in my channel about section). It just depends on what you're after in life.

[@colinfielder6695]

I agree with your nozzle choice given that most people print small objects on their printers, however the .6 would be great when fully turned in for larger projects and save some time.

[@RyoHazuki224]

Yeah, I was going to say I usually switch to a larger nozzle when I'm printing larger objects that don't have fine details. Saves so much time when I cut down on the layers/walls/etc.

[@BeefIngot]

Whats even better though, is just being able to max out your volumetric flow on a 0.4mm nozzle so you get the higher precision AND you get the faster speed.

[@Clough42]

I've been running my XL for a couple of weeks, and so far I'm happy with it. It is definitely sensitive to stringing and oozing. Filament drying seems more critical on this machine than any other I own. Even stuff like Ninjatek Cheetah that claims it doesn't absorb water must be bone dry to get good results. I have a set of 0.4mm nozzles on the way, and I'm looking forward to the comparison.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

For sure. It seems VERY picky about filament quality.

[@BeefIngot]

I wonder if this has to do with the really long heat zone, combined with a more open than normal nozzle, which leads to a long section where the filament will be cooking and thus, a proportionally larger build up in pressure as the filament off gasses within the hot end, which due to the easier release of the 0.6 size, results in more ooze than normal, to the point where it even has a notable effect whilst printing in the slower regions (I imagine this could be test simply by getting a filament with a wide temp range, and printing slowly, and very hot, and then slowly, and very cold). You know, maybe this is actually the cause of a lot of issues in prints because it's just a variable no slicer is accounting for. I've always thought we were missing the compensation for this in software, and have just been using mediocre solutions like unnecessarily having smaller heat zones when we should just be estimating the "anti offgas" value similar to input shaping, and simply run the extruder motor in reverse when not extruding to account for it (very very slowly). Anyhow, I don't have the time, nor working open source printer setup to try that, but it actually sounds doable just in the slicer with gcode. Heck, its the perfect thing for the slicer because the slicer knows for just how long the filament will be sitting getting cooked (and therefore expanding). It doesn't even sound super difficult to implement. I mean I've done the barest of tests with manually running the extruder back while filament cooked to test this before so I feel like the idea is definitely sound. If only I could freeze time to have enough time for all the things I want to do that are _totally easy ideas that wouldn't spiral into multiple month efforts_

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@BeefIngotThere's certainly SOMETHING going on here, not sure what it is. But since switching to 0.4mm, I haven't felt the need to 'improve' upon anything, I just want it faster now ;-)

[@MaxGoddur]

I chuckled watching you swap out the nozzle with a 0.4. I had no idea it was that straightforward. Now, with an allen screw loosened, the nozzle backed out, and following the reverse procedure for the 0.4 nozzle, I'm good to go. Oh, and thanks for pointing out where to adjust the settings for the 0.4 nozzle in the menu screens. Excellent job!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Nice! Glad it was helpful.

[@ruizhang9469]

Tnanks！I'm struggling with my DIY ratrig which using volcano 0.6 Nozzle for a long time. Same issue with your print model. Now I will give up 0.6, and back to 0.4.

[@SarahKchannel]

I think some of the differences are to be expected when the models or details are so small. Printing thinner walls on a 0.6 nozzle means it will extrude less or drive faster. That can be fixed by fine tuning the profile. 😊

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I would normally agree with you, but there are several KZbinrs (myself included) that have been trying to track down various issues and it's not that straightforward. Even at larger sizes, the printer still does strange things with the 0.6mm nozzle that don't happen with the 0.4mm.

[@SarahKchannel]

@@RobertCowanDIY that is indeed interesting. Rounding errors in path optimizations within the firmware, after all there quiet a bit of math involved in turning gcode commands into actual motion on the machine.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@SarahKchannelYeah, something else is going on. Clough42 and I were troubleshooting something really strange where everything looked fine in the slicer (printing a single or double walls on a thin object), when it went to actually print, it would leave out several mm at the ends. It printed the walls just fine, but for some reason gave up early. With the exact same file, same slicer, same machine, but with different nozzle, it printed fine. You'd THINK it was just an issue with part geometry, but the slicer looked identical, the machine was just retracting or coasting way too soon, causing it to not print anything in that area. You can kinda see that in the fish, the roof of the benchy, and I've seen it elsewhere. Several of us have been trying to dig into the profiles to see why it's doing this, but can't really seem to figure it out.

[@SarahKchannel]

@@RobertCowanDIY would have to compare the gcode. if the commands in both files, 0.4 and 0.6 are present, than the firmware does some interpolation/optimization that does not work. Same pointer in that direction is, the separate setting on the machine for different nozzles. While I was thinking that that setting was just a logistical component to avoid user error when using multiple heads. One thing I could think off has to do with acceleration, that the printer tries to estimate how much a head would overshoot once a path completes, then subtracts that from the path. If that compensation is wonky it could lead to some strange effects.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@SarahKchannelYep, it's something like that. It seems that with 0.6mm, it's undershooting the target and missing some extrusion.

[@tada3dprinting]

Great video!! Thanks so much for the shout out! If switching to a .4 nozzle helps at all, I'm in! I've ordered them and hope to be able to test them out soon! Thanks!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Nice! Yeah, I'm curious to see how it goes for you.

[@VincentGroenewold]

Did the same on my MK4, that does come with a 0.4, but I figured I also give a 0.6 a try. I think the main thing is, layer width. A 0.6 nozzle simply prints "wider" lines and this is part of the benefit, mainly in speed as you don't need as many perimeters. But as soon as I print a small figure, the 0.4 definitely wins hands-down, probably also because of this. Stringing has been a bigger issue with 0.6 here as well, there are a few new features in the latest firmware that may help, which I'm going to try as well (the helical z lift and angle).

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, line width is increased, but there are other issues happening that should be independant on line width. Even on larger models where it shouldn't matter, it just doesn't seem to work as well. On the fish model, I have NO idea why it would have those artifacts on that particular spot on the cheek. Looking at the slicer, there's no reason for it.

[@MrWachowsky]

​@@RobertCowanDIYin my experience layer width directly correlates with quality of overhangs, especially those with direction change. Also it all depends on the setting which perimeter is laid down first. This might be the cause or one of them. Profile tuning and Slicer should accomodate that though.

[@bluerider0988]

I don't even have my XL yet and i ordered .4 Nozzles for it on Black Friday as they were on sale. I make parts on my machines and since my other machines use a .4 mm nozzle and the parts have been proven out at that nozzle size I never planned to use the .6. I suspected that it would fix a lot of the issues people were having and your video confirms it. Thanks. 3D Print Dogs have had some great videos too.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Nice! Yeah, I really do feel like 0.4mm nozzles are the way to go here. I didn't include 3d Print Dogs since I don't follow their channel and the g-code changes they proposed actually caused more issues than they solved. They're doing some interesting stuff, but I just haven't been actively following them.

[@krollmond7544]

Did you receive it yet? Any issues?

[@bluerider0988]

@@krollmond7544 It's supposed to be delivered on Tuesday.

[@TotallyGlitch]

As far as this being a single data point, i can say with confidence that the swap to 0.4 and conditioning my filament i get these results. It has been a reliable printer for me and my only regret is that i was between jobs so i could only swing the two tool instead of the 5 tool. I love that printer and love using it for my llc. Big thing i recommend is surface prep and cleaning. Only print failures i ever had came from not cleaning the bed effectively.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

YES! With the larger bed it's much easier to put my fingers all over it! I've been much better about NOT touching it, ever. Now it's great. I just wish I had ordered all 5 toolheads, but I ordered within the first hour and mine shipped before I got the option to upgrade :-(

[@BaioWithMayo]

So good news, the 2022 pre order date XLs are switched to order today, and seems like all new XLs will come with 0.4mm nozzles. Shame prusa fumbled at the start, but looks like this past 9 months of issues should come to an end for all new orders going forward. Big gamble it feels like but time to drop the cash on my 5 head and hope the value is here!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I'd love to think they watched this video, but I highly doubt it ;-) It's still not perfect, but I think it will continue to improve over time.

[@BaioWithMayo]

@@RobertCowanDIY haha maybe they did, you need to get royalties haha! Seems 0.4 will be much better so i feel comfortable completing the order. Will get mine likely mid Feb! Love the content you continue to make across all areas!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@BaioWithMayoThanks!

[@ChrisMasto]

Thank you for the well-made video and comparison. I came here because Prusa seems to have switched to 0.4 today and I was curious about the difference. I've had my XL (with the 0.6mm nozzles) for less than a week, but so far I have found the print quality to be excellent - but I'm not an aficionado. I'm kind of hoping not to gain the ability to spot small imperfections, as it makes it easier for me to be happy with what I have. 🙂

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Thanks! I want to do a test on larger parts as I suspect the differences will be less obvious. But at least on the parts I (mindfully) chose, the differences are easy to see.

[@ame7165]

excellent work as usual. ironically i got bambu's 0.6mm nozzle when they released it and had the exact same issue. they have very few profiles for it and they weren't tuned well. needless to say, i just went back to 0.4mm and adjust line width between 0.2-0.6 and that gets me virtually the same outcome with one golden nozzle.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

That's a bummer. Well, once Prusa figures out how to tune the profiles better for 0.6mm, I'm sure Bambu will release better profiles ;-)

[@ame7165]

@@RobertCowanDIY 😂 touché

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@ame7165Hehe. "I made this!"

[@carolynhudson6858]

As a 2 printhead head XL owner I appreciate this. I also have a Voron 2,4 that I throw all the evil filament at and going from a Klipper Screen + web page to the Prusa scroll menus I prefer the touch screen likely because anything complicated i just use my printers web interface. That said the Prusa XL despite the occasional hiccup has been a pretty solid printer for me. Though i am tempted going 0.4mm as i have seen a similar sort of imperfection in the dimensionality of the prints and flow.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, I'm keeping the 0.4mm on there for now, it just seems like a 'better' printer with it. I'll probably swap back if I see some updates/improvements specifically addressing it.

[@peterwalker5413]

Great video! ❤ I watch the same KZbinrs as you referenced in your video. I was really worried about our XL once I viewed their videos showing all these issues. Now that we have used ours a few days and have had zero issues. All prints look like yours after tuning. Not sure if some of the issues that their have is assembly issues, filament or profile settings. Nonetheless it’s a great printer. Sure it would be nice if it ran a little faster. But, still faster than a MK3s+ MMU2. I wouldn’t get your hopes up for the XL to have CX1 speeds due to the weight of those heads. VzBot printer is a great example of what a core XY can really do. Anyways… All the possibilities of things you can do on the XL. Different nozzle sizes, materials, size of prints, fine tuning each head for a different configurations, etc; just endless. I put in an order a few days ago for the 5 .40 nozzles. Your hard work just confirmed what I thought could improve the print details even more. I am still not used to the .06 differences but, I am sure overtime. Great video that’s for putting in the time. ❤😊

[@kodiak2fitty]

This seems odd. I modded my MK3S+ to use the Revo 6 nozzles about a year ago. I generally only run the 0.6mm nozzle and the quality is perfectly fine. I rarely switch back to 0.4 mm for fine details. I got the 0.8mm nozzle but,as you mentioned in another XL video about volumetric flow, 40 watts can only melt so much volume of plastic and I don't see speed increase from 0.6 to 0.8 on the MK3. I don't think it is the nozzle itself as the XL nozzles very similar to the E3D Revo and Prusa worked with E3D to develop it. Thanks much for your videos on the XL. My pre-order is still pending and I'm glad several YTers like you are sharing the good, the bad, and the ugly.

[@mariueg]

I dont have a Prusa, but I use the 0.4 for decorative prints and 0.6 for practical prints because of the speed and possibility for taller layer heights. Each to their own

[@crazyairborne]

they are shipping the new XL's with .4 nozzles now! I got my email yesterday, doing research on if its worth it in todays market compared to when i preordered almost 2 years ago. Thanks for the video!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, I saw that. Interesting stuff!

[@grepmonkey]

A wonderful sumary of your experience. I'm looking forward to testing the .4 ObXidians on a 5T system this week. Fingers crossed for similar results.

[@GarethLewin]

This is like the best video for me. My experiences with my XL mirror yours, I am getting "good" results, but not as great as my MK3s, so I have been considering trying a 0.4 on my XL, and now I will. That said on my MK3s I have a revo and use my 0.6 on it most of the time and it's great! Another test I would like to try is the adapter and a CHT 0.6 nozzle

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, same boat! I had a MK3S and Bambu X1C and the XL just wasn't really keeping up in terms of quality. It was 'fine', but nothing all that notable. Now I'd say it's the best of the three. I'm very much considering testing an adapter with a CHT!

[@alanb76]

Interesting experiment and a reasonable result. One of the primary reasons for having a 360mm size printer is to print large things. This is where the 0.6mm nozzle shines. It generally cuts print time in half compared to the 0.4 at normal layer heights for each nozzle. Printing tiny benchy boats is not what the XL is optimized for. I have the MK4 for small print jobs.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

OH! That's why it's so big! Yeah, I get it, but there are other issues going on besides fine details. It's just not printing properly at 0.6mm for some reason. I made this video for the people struggling to get good quality results from the XL. Myself and others have noticed strange artifacts and just odd behavior (missing walls, problems with even simple models, etc) with 0.6mm. All of that seems to be gone with 0.4mm.

[@AlexSAndroidRadio]

On a 0.4 you can tune your profile for Infill and massive Infill up to 0.7 Layerwidth, which saves a lot of time. On the other hand, you can do the same thing with a 0.6, but then extruder is on his maximum flowrate. A 0.5 Nozzle is a good compromise between quality and speed. @RobertCowayDIY thanks for this video. I will try it on my single toolhead XL.

[@Shadrackc]

Thank you for saying what a bunch of us owners of the XL were thinking.

[@Those_Weirdos]

I appreciate you outright giving the result in the beginning. I'm new to 3D printing, and I thought it was almost universally known that smaller nozzle apertures means finer details, and larger would be for higher flow for faster printing. I'm not sure how this was ever a question?

[@aarMess]

Thanks for this tests, it gives me back a lot of trust into my soon delivered printer... 😊

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Oh yeah, it's great, it just has some initial hiccups. I suspect it will only get better.

[@dekurvajo]

Finally an adult (matured) channel. Shame on you KZbin, offering me bullshit over bullshit. But channels like this i run into by mere accident.

[@finlay9260]

Cool video! I think people really underestimate how important drying your filament is when going for perfect prints. Yes, even PLA. Yes, even fresh out of the box.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

CORRECT. What I didn't say is that all my filament was properly dried ahead of the first 0.6mm tests, but about a week went by before I got to the 0.4mm tests and I didn't re-dry everything. I should have, but didn't. I think the temperature adjustment made more of a difference though, but I should have actively dried it the WHOLE time. For any critical prints, I always print directly from a filament dryer.

[@finlay9260]

@@RobertCowanDIY Right, I tend to forget about temperatures as I'm printing mostly one brand of filament and I've had temperatures dialed in years ago. Anyway, good into! And thanks for being open about this.

[@aronseptianto8142]

with the context of prusa not originally planning prusa XL with movement speed in mind i think the 0.6 nozzle makes sense, you want to print faster but you don't have a fast gantry, you can solve that by just having a bigger nozzle. with 0.6 nozzle at 0.3 layer height, you can reach 15mm^3/s volumetric flowrate at 125mm/s. with a 0.4 nozzle at 0.2 layer height, you can reach 15mm^3/s at 187.5mm/s

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I could have sworn when this was announced, they talked about input shaping and high speed printing (which meant something a bit different back then). I could be wrong, but this was announced pre-Bambu and I remember considering this or Voron.

[@eugene3d875]

I also had decent experience with my XL. Using prusament or Protopasta PLA. Great points on benefits of drying PETG

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yep. If I care about a print, I dry the filament, period. PLA takes a lot less time to dry and it's less critical, but it can still make a small difference.

[@sindyfpv9869]

Great videos about XL! Thank you ☺️

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@exodous02]

I wasn't sold on drying when I got into 3D printing but now dry everything and everything comes out of a drybox. In fact that is my favorite thing of the Bambu AMS, I don't really print multi color but it's an excellent drybox. That and if I have two of the same spools then when one finishes it goes to the next spool without me doing anything. I wish Prusa would make a AMS for each tool head that would only hold two spools for keeping them dry and for backup.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, once you integrate it into your workflow, prints start coming out more consistently and failures go way down. I really wish we could rewind time and make dryers standard features of 3d printers.

[@BeefIngot]

I appreciate the bit at the start. Like, you were completely honest in your video, but it turns out that a lot of other people didn't get lucky with a golden sample so you warn everyone to get multiple opinions. Thats a nice move, like it still has value for sure, but "hey, it might not be as smooth as you expect". Seeing the first impressions has left me a bit disappointed in the XL, which I initially was on the fence about purchasing especially given that I've tried a few flexibles in the AMS despite best judgment and their advisement not to, only to find myself having to fix a few jams (which is totally expected, I dont blame them). I really hope we start seeing more MihaiDesigns like options, because I really think the perfect Multi Mat option will be coming out in the next few years. I've gotten lazy/felt I have not the time nor energy to make it myself as I know its perfectly possible to have a good system as I've seen a few channels roll their own, all one or 2 steps away from perfection, so we've seen open source designs over time that all the tools in the shed exist to make it happen. We just need to put them together and honestly I would expect it only would take a sufficiently motivated person with klipper experience a few months and probably a thousand bucks to do it. I'm going to add this to my list of "I already have too many projects going on at once and will never get to it" project ideas LogSeq PKM page. As for your viewer interaction call to action: I think its a combination of things that stem from Prusa sleeping at the wheel for too long, followed by rushing to implement an ambitious project while hamstringing themselves by avoiding typical mass manufacturing methods just to have the appearance of open source buildability (which as far as I know, this thing isnt even open source yet hardware wise, and they seem to have kinda just silently stopped doing that). As a general conclusion though, this is why to me, I've felt it really is worth it to have the super speed input shaping zippyness. While you can make a small nozzle go really fast, you can't make a big nozzle print really finely, (well you actually can to a degree from a video I remember watching where they simply made their line width a lower amount than their nozzle diameter and it worked surprisingly well though less well than a natural 0.4).

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yep, I'm not trying to oversell anything, I've absolutely had good luck, but I'm not the majority here.

[@leinadreign3510]

I have only room for my prusa mini. But I still like watching the stuff about bigger ones. Maybe I pick up one or two things which could help improving my quality ^^

[@Karyn451]

I found the same issues as you with my 5 head XL. I now run 2 heads with 0.4 for "detail" stuff and use the 0.6 for "primitive" components and supports.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Nice. I really wish I had gotten all 5 heads. I just wanted to 'test it out' initially, but that was before I knew it would take forever for them to ship.

[@BenRyherd]

I suspect shipping with the .6mm nozzle and it not being tuned for it is because the Bambulabs printers came out between when they announced the XL and when they shipped it. Not wanting to be cast aside as a relic of older days simply due to speed they quickly swapped to the .6mm to keep things at least close. Theoretically you could slice it for .6mm in the slicer, manually edit the gcode so it thinks it was generated for a .4mm nozzle so it doesn't throw the error about mismatched nozzle size (I'm assuming the firmware scans the gcode for the nozzle size it was sliced for to generate that error) and then you could see if it was a slicer profile issue, or a "firmware profile" (when change the nozzle size on the machine interface)issue.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I suspect the same, but that seems so sloppy from Prusa.

[@Arcadenut1]

I switched to .4 about a week after I bought the printer due to the issues you've pointed out. My .6 are in the box and will probably stay that way unless I need to print something very large with little detail.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

You should have told the rest of us! But seriously, I'm in the same boat. I wanted to buy a hardened nozzle and wasn't sure if I should get 0.4mm or 0.6mm and now it's obvious. I don't think I'll go back to 0.6mm unless I print something really huge. Then I might try 0.8mm or just get a CHT insert with an adapter?

[@MikeKobb]

Great info, and excellent sleuthing on the temperatures. TADA 3D Printing also ended up turning the temperature down on her XL. I'm starting to wonder whether the XL runs hotter than its settings.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I suspect they were trying to mitigate any issues for running it at higher speeds. If you go up to 125% or even 150%, you can get away with some of their stock profiles, so maybe they have higher speeds in mind? I'm not sure. It's unlike them to be sloppy with the print profiles.

[@MikeKobb]

@@RobertCowanDIY By the way, are you still a fan of the Sunlu S2? I need a dryer suitable for PLA.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@MikeKobbI am! There are some things I don't like about them, but I have yet to find something better. You can see them to the left of the machine. I like them because they're silent and actually get up to temperature.

[@MikeKobb]

@RobertCowanDIY Thanks! It looks like Sunlu has added a fan to the S2 now. I guess we'll see how that does.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@MikeKobbAwww, bummer! I liked the fanless design.

[@wafflecart]

I switched to 0.4mm on my XL after a few weeks just to try it and I've stuck with it, as there is not much difference in print time and then you get better quality.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Nice. Lots of people saying the same thing. Makes me wonder what Prusa was thinking shipping it with 0.6mm?

[@Shadrackc]

Not much difference in print time? Sorry huge difference on a 5 color full size iron man helmet that takes almost 3 days with a .6. Huge difference in time.

[@wafflecart]

​@@Shadrackc Of course there will be hours saved over a 3 day print as it scales. Normal prints though that are not huge I'd prefer it to take ~10min longer with more detail with the 0.4mm nozzle.

[@Shadrackc]

@@wafflecart I have a Mk4, Mk3S, as well as others to do normal prints. The XL is built to do a certain type of print and seeing people put it against the quality of the mini for example, is ridiculous. I bought this machine to be the workhorse tool changer that it is. Not a 300 dollar mini printer.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@ShadrackcWell, it VERY much depends on what you're printing.

[@MelSavageKiller]

Nice video. Most of my prints are large prints so i think i will be sticking with the .6 for faster print times, definitely going to look into switching to .4 for more detailed prints though.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

For sure! I need to test this out with larger prints though too, as I'm still seeing some strange quality issues with larger prints.

[@mariuszstanisz9070]

Thanks for the test. Can you test the ObXidian nozzle vs a standard one? My worry with the ObXidian nozzle might have more oozing because of the coatings, which could lead to more stringing artifacts, especially in multi-tool prints.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

If they would come back into stock! I did order another diamondback nozzle which I will use with an adapter.

[@Benctmoi]

You have an n=2 now. I was working on a similar thing on my XL and got the same results. PETG is PETG and we know it isn't for detailed work. I can print PETG with PLA support in 0.4 more easily than in 0.6. I agree that the XL isn't tuned yet for 0.6. Again, 0 6 isn't made for detailed small pieces but for volume. It is a compromise to take. Thank you for what you do.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

You're very welcome, thanks for watching! I've tried printing larger objects as well with the 0.6mm and something just isn't right with the profiles. It's a whole new printer with 0.4mm.

[@Benctmoi]

@RobertCowanDIY I agree, something isn't right with 0.6 on the XL, other than the speed compared to other machines, the multi tools rocks with the 0 4 nozzles.

[@Clough42]

A better clickbait title: I couldn't fix the Prusa XL even if I wanted to!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

geez, damn.

[@crussty3d]

Great Video! A bit of information I didn't catch that would be useful to spell out is what version of firmware you are running, what version of the slicer, and if you are using default profiles or your own. With all the changes Prusa is making to all three at this early stage on the XL, those details are very important for anyone doing comparisons and will make a HUGE difference on the results.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, sorry, I was trying to keep things simple. No custom profiles, it's just the stock profiles and the most up-to-date firmware and slicer at the time of filming. So it's what a normal user could expect, without having to tune. Once I start tuning, it's not apples to applies, since it relies more on my skills rather than what you would get out of the box.

[@Leo-yh1lj]

Really liked this one. I have a XL with only 1 (for now) toolhead. Still have some issue's with the 0.6mm nozzle, especially with IS. Encountered several print fails now during printing the infills on those prints, it seems colliding with the infill patern (maybe because of the higher speed?). I wonder if changing to a 0.4mm nozzle will solve this or just go back and not use IS for now. It's a relative new machine so hopefully these issue's will get addressed by Prusa. My Prusa Mini+ is flawless in that regard. Great work and keep it up!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, I'd give it a shot. Like you I had some strange issues with the 0.6mm that I never saw on any of my other printers. Now that I switched to 0.4mm all the issues are gone.

[@Leo-yh1lj]

I wanted to get the Prusa Nozzle ObXidian from the store, but out of stock. The brass one is still available i see. Not sure if it is worth it to wait. Suggestions? @@RobertCowanDIY

[@awilliams1701]

one of these days I need to try 0.25 in my mk4. I have it. I just haven't used it yet. I'm already impressed with the 0.05 profile. I didn't expect the difference between 0.1 and 0.05 to be that drastic.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Oh wow, those are some tiny layers!

[@awilliams1701]

@@RobertCowanDIY yeah and it's nice! Even on 0.1 layers curved surfaces don't look great, but when I did 0.05 I can't see the layers anymore. It feels very smooth.

[@AezothPlays]

Maybe the way to go, if you ever get a 5 tool head XL is to have 3-4 tool heads being 0.4 for the print itself while having a 0.6 on 1-2 tool head(s) for supports.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm just hoping they come out with some sort of high-flow option so I could just stick with 0.4mm for everything.

[@WonkoTSane]

The video from Teaching Tech and his follow up to it felt like he was trying to shill for Bamboo. I think that he and a couple of other people have gone down the rabbit hole of trying to tweak the gcode and are not willing to give up on what they think should work. I primarily print PETG with PLA as a support material. I print both 10C cooler than the default and have no issues with a .6 nozzle. I had a ton of issues before the 5.1 firmware and the 2.7 slicer. I think that people are leaving in gcode changes that are at odds with the changes made by Prusa in the 2.7 profiles. I agree that the XL is not as fast as some others in pure print speed. Where it makes up the difference is when you are printing with more than one material. The speed of the tool changes without having to do a full purge of an MMU like on other machines makes it much faster. That is why I bought an XL and not a Bamboo. Couple the issues with data privacy on the Bamboo and it was a non-starter from a business perspective.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Eh, I don't get that from Teaching Tech. I've been chatting with him personally though his evaluation of the XL and he's having legitimate issues, as have other people. I started the video off mentioning other channels and how my experiences are far better for that very reason! I don't want people thinking I'm trying to oversell the quality of the XL, others aren't as lucky. But I do agree that all these gcode tweaks are doing more harm than good. I still see people trying to print filament that's not properly dried, trying to print too fast, etc, etc. I 100% agree, when you start printing more than one material, it's WAY faster than anything else out there. I think for the marlin/fish model, it was 3-5 times slower on the Bambu.

[@davien628]

I have the MK4 and with a 0.6 nozzle I found that switching to the “Classic” instead of “Arachne” setting made my prints better for some reason. I did not have to do this with a 0.4 nozzle to get good prints I’m not sure why.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Good to know!

[@jmsether]

Fun fact. The nextruder was designed with .4 in mind. Its gearing is not fast enough for highspeed retraction.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Do you have any facts to back up this claim?

[@jmsether]

@@RobertCowanDIY did my own testing.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@jmsethergot it.

[@InnesPort]

I think Prusa’s decision to run a .6mm nozzle stock on the XL is they simply thought a big printer will print big parts so it needs a big nozzle. While that makes sense to me, it doesn’t make sense that Prusa didn’t get a .6mm to perform as good or better on the XL, and we still have to resort back to .4mm nozzles for the quality. Hopefully a fix will come soon via slicer profiles and firmware upgrades.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, I'm curious what the impact is on larger prints. I feel like I've noticed it on bigger prints as well, but maybe a test for large-scale prints is warranted.

[@ManIkWeet]

To me the .6 issues seem mostly related to cooling. Especially on the Marlin fish model, those overhangs simply don't get cooled enough. Relates to the fact that you lowered your temperature by 10°C.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

You might be right! I'm not necessarily trying to track down the 'smoking gun', I'm just trying to show that the 0.4mm prints the way you'd expect. But cooling has never been something Prusa does well.

[@sandervanvoxel3d]

It might come down to material flow properties. The hotzone of XL is quite large, with a large volume of molten plastic. It flows by gravity thru the nozzle, which happens easier on the ,60 nozzle... I think it might get better with HF nozzles, such as CHT. This does flow the same/ better, but the filament has much more resistance and friction

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, I wouldn't argue against that. I'd be really curious to try out a 0.4mm nozzle adapter with a CHT nozzle in it... That might end up getting the same benefits as a 0.6mm nozzle, but with the quality I'm seeing from the smaller diameter.

[@muddymaker3721]

Apparently a lot of the stringing issues that people have been experiencing with their XL's have been attributed to faulty hotend thermistors. People have been noticing immediate elimination of the stringing issues after they have installed a new thermistor!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Huh, I haven't heard about that from anyone, but it would make sense.

[@muddymaker3721]

@@RobertCowanDIY Prusa identified a bad batch on early iterations of the XL that were sent out. I think the present day models being sent out have QC thermistors installed but I may be mistaken. If anyone is experiencing bad stringing on their XL’s, presuming they have eliminated bad filament, wet filament etc, should reach out to Prusa😀

[@johnpapiewski7022]

Does the nozzle size issue really come down to flow, and how much material the nozzle can deliver at a given print speed? Would lowering the speed or increasing the filament rate solve the artifacts with 0.6mm?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

It's something worth investigating. Myself and others have certainly seen strange behavior independent of speed or flow with the 0.6mm however.

[@Kregorius]

I speculate... nah. Got 0,25, 0,4 and 0,8 mm nozzles with my order. Plus some bigger nozzle x version. Its a new platform. I want to see what can be squeezed out of it. Maybe it has amazing small detail capability with 0,25. Maybe i need to get some big parts and 0,8 is better. Hopefully theres gonna be possibility to mix different sizes in one print in the future. There is no need to limit myself with "what came in the box". Its a platform to test out. Would not be the first time the climents figure the flaws out over time and stuff gets tuned on the profiles. That filament dryer though. Could be worth to set it up so it prints directly form it.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, I print directly from my dryer, but a week went by between tests and I got lazy. The filament was most likely dry, but I just wanted to be honest that I did dry it alongside changing the temps.

[@stephans891]

Big Thank you, for printing your test subjects in GREY, grey is the best color to identifies print issues. Im always lauging when someone prints in red or oder funny color and talks about this failure and that....

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, or white! You need a grey so you can actually SEE any problems. It's the least forgiving. Thanks for getting it ;-)

[@h.y-chen]

the 0.6 PLA fish looks much more matte to the 0.4 , this may indicate flow rate issue, try CHT nozzle or higher the temperature

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Correct, I didn't properly control that variable. It should have been about 5 degrees hotter.

[@MOVIEKICKS]

Thanks for the video. Have you tried input shaping yet?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Oh yeah, here you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2HLaYWHibimhaM All these tests were done with input shaping firmware. FYI, subscribe and follow my channel so you don't miss any content ;-)

[@billstech1715]

My MK4 and my MK3S+ have .6mm nozzles for my ASA and PETG prints. I am not as concerned with minor imperfections as I am with strength. I still think the Z direction strength between layers is better with the larger nozzle size because of its ability to melt into the previous layer and adjacent layer more effectively. I sacrifice some precision for greater durability and print speed. I would really like to know if others have experienced the same thing with there prints. I make latches, brackets, handles, spacer blocks, lots of parts out of ASA-carbon because of the UV qualities in the sun and temperature.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

You're right about the strength. Beyond cosmetic issues, I was having problems with some basic geometry and you can clearly see it's retracting too early (causing under-extrusion and missing filament) and other issues that WOULD impact strength.

[@billstech1715]

Thanks for the response, I have had some tolerance issues on a few parts. Normally not to bad but one was over .035" off. I had to change my dimensions to compensate. I am on the list for an XL, might have to move back to a .4mm nozzle for some things. Prusa uses the .4 to make their parts.@@RobertCowanDIY

[@BennyTygohome]

Very nice👍 i think TADA will be changing to .4 soon too, but she has a 5 tool XL and needs to get at least that many .4 nozzles. Also, have you tried the hardened nozzle and adapters? Curious to see how XL does with exotic filament

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I haven't, but I have a diamondback nozzle on the way, so I will use that with the adapter to try out some abrasive filaments.

[@woodwaker1]

Thanks for the video. I have had my 5 head XL for about a month, no prints yet. I had a stripped screw in Nextruder 1 - have been working with Prusa for over 3 weeks - to get it fixed. TADA has had some big problems, hope she will switch to a .4. This is very similar to using a pen vs magic marker, If you have a fine tip pen you will get great detail at the cost of speed, the bigger marker will give you speed at the cost of detail. Could you share the times of your prints?

[@bechti44]

have you tried using a .6mm nozzle with a .4 print profile? Im using that all the time and works great for me. This is especially useful for materials which tend to clog smaller nozzles, such as Woodfill

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Huh, I haven't. I should try that.

[@Matrixas]

Interesting.. I want to see if Prusa's gonna be able to fix this issue with an update. Also I think that a 0.4mm nozzle should have been included with the printer in the first place!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Agreed! I have hope in them. I've only had my machine for a few months and there have been multiple firmware and slicer updates and most things are being addressed and getting fixed. But yeah, it would be nice if you at least had the option for the 0.4mm nozzle instead of 0.6mm.

[@zwei.r]

Thank you for this great video. Two questions arised for me: 1. What were the print times of the items? - I mainly use 0.6 to get out prints fast. 2. There always seems to be a difference in „shininess“ between then the same model with the different nozzle size. Is this just because of the video or also in reality? For example the 0.6 PETG fish looks a bit like the 255° part of the temp tower on video.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Good questions. I didn't include print times since it's a bit of apples and oranges. the 0.6mm nozzles tends to produce heavier prints (line width is bigger), so even though the infill is the same, it's heavier in-fill. I've found with most modern printers, you're up against the max flow of the extruder, so even though 0.6mm can lay down bigger layers, you need to extrude a bit slower to compensate for the volumetric flow. ALSO, every model is completely different. My advice is to just add the XL into PrusaSlicer and load up the models you tend to print and check the times. With the new firmware and slicer version, I've found it to be fairly accurate. If you're seeing a difference in shinyness between prints, you're not properly melting the filament with the 0.6mm nozzle. In theory you can increase the heat or slow it down and the shinyness will come back. Most filaments should print shiny, so when it's more matte, it's not getting enough heat (or you're extruding too fast). This was the case in my video, I should have increased the temp a bit.

[@Hilmi12]

Hi, been printing since the Mk 2 was released, and while I haven't had much experience changing nozzle sizes except last week, I would say your issues are all to do with print profile tuning and cooling issues

[@RobertCowanDIY]

There's more to it than that.

[@karlosss1868]

Very interesting....thanks. I'd love to know what the issue is with the overhang defects on the fish. Maybe a cooling tweak in the profile but I agree. Not sure the 0.6mm profile is quite there. Some of your benchies were outstanding!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Thanks! I didn't go into it in the video, but the slicer/printer just do strange things at 0.6mm. It makes no sense, that cheek area on the fish should be REALLY easy, it's not really even an overhang. But on multiple attempts it was always there, but disappeared with the 0.4mm.

[@TonyNaggs]

Thanks for doing this comparison. It does feel like the XL should maybe have a selection at purchase between 0.4mm nozzles for those mostly printing detailed smaller objects, and 0.6mm for those printing mostly big objects that fill the volume. (Not that I have budget for either.) Hopefully the obsidian nozzles will be available soon, they featured prominently on the E3D poster at SMRRF at the weekend.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, I think the 0.6mm should be an OPTION, but it seems strange to include it for all extruders.

[@logicalfundy]

The ObXidian nozzles have been going in and out of stock, I have 0.4 and 0.6, just keep an eye on the website.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@logicalfundyAh, good to know, I'll have to keep my eye on it.

[@zakeller]

Great video. What were the differences in print times?

[@bernardtarver]

I wonder why the printer would check the nozzle size "noted" in the G-code. Plus, at 6:54, the difference in seam quality is very noticeable.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

It's just to prevent issues if you are running multiple nozzle sizes I think. For example, tool heads 1 and 2 are 0.4mm, the rest are 0.6mm, and you might forget which is which. It's just a sanity check. And yeah, the seams were MUCH worse with 0.6mm, which doesn't make a ton of sense.

[@bernardtarver]

@@RobertCowanDIY That's understood, but it doesn't seem foolproof as you can swap out a nozzle and forget to update the slicer settings (as I have done before), and the printer wouldn't know the difference.

[@TMS5100]

Prusa was warned that 0.6 default nozzle was a mistake for exactly these reasons but they ignored everyone and did it anyway. What's the point of saving time if it looks bad?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I think for much larger models it would be less of an issue? I should maybe do this same test but with really large-scale models. But that would take forever :-/

[@LilApe]

Prusa was never warned about anything.You just made that up lol. It's a large format printer with a lager nozzle to match which makes sense. People were pleased to hear it comes stock with a .6 because it only makes sense.

[@tonycaliva6502]

How is the difference in print time between .4 and .6 nozzles with input shaping? 5%, 10%, 15%? Is .4 still suitable for larger prints?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

All of this is using input shaping. Of course 0.4mm is still usable for larger prints, they'll just take longer.

[@jackwhite3820]

I want to point out, that the layer height is definitely not the same 7:26 I count 9 layers on the roof of the 0.6 mm Benchy and 11 on the 0.4 mm Benchy, which would fit, if it were 0.25 mm layer height on one and 0.2 mm on the other.

[@Rob_65]

Nice video. I came to about the same conclusion. The XL, with 0.6 nozzles, does well for me with a bit of stringing. Nothing that cannot be wiped away by hand or with a hot air gun at low setting. But the 0.4 nozzle makes it perfect. Doing a temp. tower and tuning material makes any good printer into a perfect one. Drying PETG - yes, that does a lot for me too. Funny enough, I never needed to dry PETG on the other printers but on the XL this seems to make a larger difference. Did you already install the new firmware and slicer ? I still need to do so on mine but I understood this will even improve things more.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I should have mentioned, for every XL video I make, I'm using the newest firmware and slicer. I have not seen any issues when upgrading firmware, it's always gotten better.

[@BaconFase.]

I havent done any testing myself but while I was poking around PrusaSlicer last night I noticed Prusa has two different filament profiles for .4 nozzles: regular XL and XLIS. The only difference I noticed at a glance was the XLIS profile has a crazy PLA temp of 230, maybe to push filament through faster?? The .6 nozzle doesn't have a similar XLIS filament profile. Have you messed with or compared these two profiles at all? Only mentioning this because you brought up the issue of speed at the very end. Otherwise, great vid. My experience with my 5T tracks pretty well with yours and your 2T.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Thanks!

[@itsfester2917]

I use a 0.6mm nozzle size pretty much exclusively. The only thing you demonstrate here is you did not calibrate for it. I make very very nice models with both my P1S and Ender 6 with a 0.6mm nozzle. Edit: As sort of a disclaimer, my Ender 6 is far from stock and prints just as fast as the Bambu.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I didn't calibrate? I'm using the 0.6mm profiles from the slicer. There's no 'calibration'.

[@wolframherzog636]

Did you recalibrate the printhead with the Center pin after changing the nozzle? Or is this unnecessary?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I did just in case. In theory there should be minor variations. With tool changers, it's critical that the offset is as perfect as it can be.

[@AirsoftAbominations]

the old diameter swap process from my mk3 was way better than the mk4/xl, which is ironic since the mk3 didnt havbe quickchange and the others do

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I don't think the toolchanger has much to do with it, that part seems to work quite well and I don't see any issues with it.

[@AirsoftAbominations]

@@RobertCowanDIY it's just the same on the mk4 tho. It used to be if you loaded an incorrect diameter file you could with one press get to the menu to reconfigure it. Total like 4 presses to modify the set diameter. Now it's buried in a tool sub menu despite nozzle changes being easier than ever

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@AirsoftAbominationsGotcha, interesting.

[@TheBekker_]

Pretty sure that the "wrong nozzle size" is just a "sanity check", to make sure you don't run gcode for one size on another size by accident.. So you can just choose to continue without changing it, if you know you have the right nozzle on. At least that's how it works on the I3 series.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Gotcha. I guess I never changed nozzle size on my MK3? I just hadn't seen that message before, but it's absolutely a sanity check.

[@skywardsoul1178]

Thanks for the detailed evaluation. I'll definitely look into buying a 0.4. I'm hoping input shaping when it properly lands will compensate for the loss in print time. The quality is definitely important to me, and I'll keep the 0.6 on my other printer. I'm just putting my single tool XL together at the moment. I may be tempted to try a 0.5 at some point also. I have a standard 0.5 and the adapter, but I'm hesitant to use it as I rather like the idea of cold swapping nozzles, and the adapter removes that benefit and adds the risk of leaky threads. Would you mind telling me what filament dryer you use? Most of them seem rather poor in both function and quality. Cheers.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I use the Sunlu V2. I like it enough to recommend it. Check my channel, I have a full review of it and a comparison to the Printdry or whatever it's called. I like the Sunlu because it actually gets up to the target temps, whereas others don't actually get to the temps they claim.

[@philipp2104]

i did the test model with my XL and a .6 nozzle (Bondtech CHT BiMetal ) and the same with the mk4 and a .4 (Bondtech CHT BiMetal). the difference is not as big as in your video. also, all the cylinders were loose with .6 (used prusament pla) did you use the lates FW and profiles ?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yep, I have the latest slicer and firmware. I was actually using the 5.1 alpha for this, since the final release wasn't out yet.

[@rokkz]

It’s clear, prusa panicked when they saw the Bambu Labs kickstarter and the speed versus quality, and pivoted to a .6mm as standard from tried and tested .4, along with the increased isize of the prints the XL can produce and the extremely lengthy print times that will accompany it.

[@Danny-pp1gk]

Does anyone know if Prusa is planning to do an XLS upgrade anytime soon?

[@ScytheNoire]

There is definitely something wrong with the configurations and 0.6 prints. Never seen such bad 0.6 prints, which is my go-to size for many of my mechanical prints on an MK3S+, and results are often hard to tell apart from 0.4 prints at a quick glance.

[@kurtXhecticXpl]

If you didnt know you have to change the nozzle size in the settings I wonder if you knew what is arachne algorithm and did you used it?

[@Ender_Wiggin]

Will you do a quality and speed comparison with the bambu again with the .4 mm nozzle? It would be really cool to see if you can run each g code form the different slicers on the other printer directly. Also I had been getting a feeling that .6 mm nozzle was the problem. I ordered some .4 mm during black friday and also picked up the diamondback in .4.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

MAYBE. Comparing to Bambu always gets a bit tricky since they're really optimized for speed and not much else. It would be tricky to do an apples to apples comparison. I could modify the slicer to get the same part though. Maybe...

[@gltovar]

So I am unsure if it is mandatory to change the nozzle sizes. I think it is there to provide the user a warning that their gcode doesn't match the machine's known setup, but I don't Believe it prints differently. But I can't say that with certainty

[@RobertCowanDIY]

You're right, it's just a warning, but interesting nonetheless.

[@LaKemper]

Kinda wanna know what the ambient humidity of Teaching Techs' room is. Cause I know here in colorado, it is likely much dryer, especially in the winter. Which could have an impact on your results, compared to his.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

He claims that his filament is dry and moisture isn't an issue. But the stringing he's seeing is beyond anything I've ever seen from a printer in the last 5+ years. That's some early rep-rap stuff.

[@42436freak]

Where they sliced with classic or arachne ? I know arachne helps 0.6 nozzles keep better detail in many scenarios.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Arachne.

[@Qui-9]

What does the nozzle size setting in your printer do? Mine doesn't have that setting. My slicer uses the nozzle setting I give it in the computer to generate the G-code, so I don't know what the printer setting alters?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

It's just a check to make sure the settings match. I don't think it alters anything.

[@Qui-9]

@@RobertCowanDIY kk thanks for the insight 👍

[@goldfingerdash]

You really do make great videos! Thanks for the investigate. I've been running the stock 0.6 nozzles in my five head with good results. I bought five 0.4 nozzles during the black friday sale but not had a chance to compare. I am used to 0.6 nozzles anyway as that it what I have alway used on my MK3S. I agree that this seems to be a tunability issue. I wonder if Prusa switched to 0.6 nozzles late in development due to competition, or if 0.6 nozzles were planned from the beginning. Based on the number of field issues I would think the nozzle diameter was changed later in development, but this is just speculation. Maybe I missed it in your video, but did you slice with or without IS?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Yeah, it seems like they switched over to the 0.6mm late in the game like you said and didn't get everything fully ironed out. I've been running the 0.4mm for a week or so now and the print quality went WAY up, it's incredible the difference it made. This is all with the newest firmware and slicer, so I AM using IS. (Alpha firmware and Prusaslicer 2.7.0) Also, thanks!

[@OmDeLaTara]

@@RobertCowanDIY, why alpha fw? Stable release of firmware 5.1.0 with Input Shaper for the Original Prusa XL was released more then a week ago.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@OmDeLaTara OH! I should update that. I just wasn't aware. I updated to the stable release of Prusaslicer, but apparently not the firmware. So yeah, everything was printed with the alpha firmware 😕

[@JonathanRansom]

I run 0.6mm nozzles on 3 out of 4 of my Prusa printers, but I'm just printing stuff quickly with little detail.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

I was liking the extra speed, but now that I've switched to the 0.4mm, the bigger nozzles might never go back in there. I'll wait for some sort of high-flow solution. The quality difference is noticeable on pretty much all prints.

[@JonathanRansom]

Can't argue with those results on your printer!

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@JonathanRansomYeah, it basically feels like a new machine now.

[@shenqiangshou]

Right on with your assessment, I think one of the things that really bumed out the community is after so many years of waiting, and at such a high cost, Prusa delivered this, a half baked printer. But thankfully the community saw the potential of the hardware, and started tuning it. As one of the people who preordered a 5 head XL, but then got a X1C+AMS, I'm gonna wait a bit longer. I do wonder, maybe the .6 nozzle is just too large to be used effectively for a tool changer? Not sure if anyone who built E3D's platform can comment any experiences with a .6 nozzle on a similar platform. Maybe Prusa knew this and but figured the .6 nozzle makes sense for this printer's giant print volume, but honestly I wish they released a toolchanger that is smaller (where the .4 as a default nozzle would make sense).

[@ivyr336]

Looks like part of the issue is that the toolhead can't provide enough cooling for the 0.6

[@RobertCowanDIY]

That's a possibility.

[@agrariancraftsleather]

A number of reviewers, especially those who do large prints (cosplay, etc…) often comment in their reviews that printers should come stock with a 0.6 nozzle. I suspect that influenced the manufacturer of this large printer to go this route.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

OH yeah. I've seen so many content creators push the idea of 0.6mm, but then complained when it actually DID come with 0.6mm ;-)

[@qwertyqwerty9587]

What size nozzle are you using on your bambu, for your cf prints?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

For the Bambu, I use the standard 0.4mm nozzle. I've heard there's not much reason to get a larger nozzle for them.

[@qwertyqwerty9587]

@@RobertCowanDIY Ok good to know, I was about to buy one and they had a little disclaimer about blockages at 0.4, I guess they're probably just playing it safe thanks.

[@RobertCowanDIY]

@@qwertyqwerty9587Gotcha. Yeah, they claim you want to use larger nozzles for CF filaments, but I haven't had an issue with it, yet.

[@celeron55]

What if the problem here is that slicers are through and through optimized (both intentionally and unintentionally) for the behavior of plastics at 0.4mm nozzle size and for that reason any attempt at using a 0.6mm nozzle will perform worse compared to 0.4mm?

[@RobertCowanDIY]

Other printers seem to handle 0.6mm well enough.