USB reclockers

[@PGRPGRPG]

Dear friends, I can say I’m not a believer at all regarding Hifi gear. However, I’ve been really impressed that how great an USB reclocker with a proper alim did positively impact my system ! For 350/400 bucks, this is for me a réal deal (ok you have also to add an extra usb Cable).

[@LuxAudio389]

That's nice that he thanks Paul for creating it for him.

[@dondotyGR]

I wonder if they could make a device that would report the percentage of bad packets (crc errors I think?). That would give an indication of how bad your connection is

[@randomtube8226]

A phone is like a pocket computer. Is it just as noisy as a laptop or desktop?

[@ranseus]

In my experience, the AQ Jitterbug ("FMJ" model, if that matters) _can_ make a difference. It seems to make the biggest difference with DACs that use USB for power (AQ Dragonfly Black/Red, Schiit Fulla), and less of a difference for DACs that have their own power supplies. The AQ Dragonfly Cobalt already has the Jitterbug circuits in it, so it made VERY little difference there.

[@Skye_the_toller]

Do we have the same problem with RJ-45 (network) connection?

[@JonAnderhub]

No. Truthfully, there is no problem with a USB connection either. It's just more "Audiophile" snake oil.

[@Evertb1]

Yes of course. Why do you think they sell audiophile switches and audiophile patch cables? It's not that the industry want's to make all the money they can, do they?

[@Evertb1]

@@Douglas_Blake That was sarcasm. I have a NAS (TrueNAS) with a lot (I mean a LOT) of flac files. I have a cat6 network and the cat6 cabling is of a good quality but otherwise nothing special. Just like the cat6 patch box and wall outlets. My server is connected with a good but ordinary switch and good, but again ordinary patch cables. I would not dream of buying a switch of several hundreds of dollars just to transport my files to my streaming device. I don't see any added value of expensive "audiophile" network equipment. Of course if you believe in that stuff and have the money to spend, go right ahead if that's what makes you happy.

[@jabezhane]

The folks that designed USB and Ethernet are far far smarter than anyone in the Hi-Fi industry. Rest easy. Any messing with the standard formula of operation for such devices (pointless hi-fi tinkering) is a downgrade.

[@LuxAudio389]

Kind of expensesive is everything in high end audio

[@JonAnderhub]

Most of it is snake oil and doesn't make any difference.

[@LuxAudio389]

@@Douglas_Blake lol itrust me I have found it is. I tried pre-owned and new. When I first got my current system I had Burnester preamp, BelCanto amps and it still wasn't as good as what I first listened to and now own. But it's all about finding the right fit. It can be done. The refinement and tonality of instruments really comes through now.

[@PanAmStyle]

My dealer gave me a Jitterbug FMJ to try. I inserted it into my system and immediately texted him, and bought it. There was bad language, preceded by “holy”…

[@JonAnderhub]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKbPcpaCp9ODoaM

[@PanAmStyle]

@@JonAnderhub Audio “Science” Review - 😂. They don’t believe *anything* matters. The Jitterbug works, and no, it’s not confirmation bias on my part. And yes, cables make a difference.

[@JonAnderhub]

@@PanAmStyle It's not a matter of "believing" it's a matter of fact as proven by scientific testing with the evidence given to you and that you can repeatedly replicate yourself. Cables can have absolutely no effect on the digital files being transmitted down the cable. Jitter is controlled by only two factors. The first is the quality of the clock signal by the analog-to-digital converter used in the capture the original signal. The second is the quality of the power supply and clock signal used by the digital-to-analog converter to reproduce the original signal. The USB cable only passes data, no audio, to a buffer used by the digital-to-audio converter so the converter doesn't care what clocked rate it receives the data.

[@PanAmStyle]

@@JonAnderhub Here we go. I’m a scientist by training and I disagree.

[@JonAnderhub]

@@PanAmStyle You disagree with what? That USB cable is used to transmit data and not audio? That a DAC uses a buffer and its own clock to convert digital data into analog audio and therefore requires no additional "clocking" of the USB data? What exactly do you disagree with? As a trained scientist aren't you someone who systematically gathers and uses research and evidence, to make hypotheses and test them, to gain and share understanding and knowledge?

[@artyfhartie2269]

I have picked some good tips on your video. The tip about leaning tower speakers by raising the back feet a fraction forward to mitigate frequencies sailing over your head and splitting cables and twisting them together. Works a treat and not placebo effect as I tend to listen to the same cds, records and tapes. I bi amped my Klipsch RF 63 (hidden gems) placed on adjacent walls, 11 feet apart, 8 feet from me ,using my Marantz SR 7500 as per manual (hidden gem too) using Kimber cables for lower binding posts and generic cables for upper posts. The cables need a few hours to settle. Pure magic at no cost!!

[@ThinkingBetter]

You said “The cables need a few hours to settle”. What does that mean?

[@artyfhartie2269]

@@ThinkingBetter The sound became more solid like the low frequencies got more kick in it and tne highs and mids more body and clearer, with depth and stage feel . This is not an exact science, mind you. Just my system where my cables lie together with power cords. It is just something that happened to my system.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@artyfhartie2269 Cables are made of conducting metal. There is no such thing as burn-in (settle) for audio cables. The idea that some audio components need burn-in is however true in some other cases, for example, speaker drivers are often involving glue in the surround material that softens after some hours of use and burn-in will help reduce distortion. Everything in audio follows science strictly 100%.

[@artyfhartie2269]

@@ThinkingBetter Look, like I keep telling to all these assholes who preach shit to me. I fucken know what I hear. End of story.

[@richardsmith2721]

Do the pricier USB cables make any difference?

[@marshall2.015]

I upgraded my USB cable going from my PC to my Marantz receiver with an Audioquest carbon cable. It gave the midrange more clarity and added depth to the soundstage. But I was comparing it to the $5 cable that came with my receiver. If your system is already bright, a high end cable might make it too bright. Now is the part where the comments will flow in below telling me I'm insane, stupid and an "audiofool". Enjoy!

[@davidfromamerica1871]

@@marshall2.015 Computer USB’s are typically noisy in many computers, especially low budget PC’s. That is why there are USB external sound cards sold. You don’t need an expensive one. Just make sure it works with Windows or Mac in the specs. Check for firmware and software updates when you first plug them in. ✅ I have an old one I bought when W Vista first came out. It has Windows firmware and software files downloaded on it. Without getting into too many details. I use it for my Acer Chromebook. It eliminates the 12 volt fan noise bleeding thru the USB connection. Works great..✅

[@marshall2.015]

@@davidfromamerica1871 That's how I run my main system. PC to Creative Sound Blaster X4 to Gustard R26, sounds amazing. I was getting strange artifacts when I went PC straight to DAC. External sound card fixed all of it.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@marshall2.015You are not insane. It’s normal for our brain to imagine such differences. USB cables transfer data and errors in those data won’t occur even with a low cost Amazon cable. Technically, the cable might cause noise transfer through the ground or 5V pins in the cable into the receiver analog electronics, but a good receiver would not have such problem.

[@marshall2.015]

@@ThinkingBetter If I'm hearing things that aren't really there, then that means I'm insane. Go ahead, you can say it.

[@ThinkingBetter]

Bad audio engineering makes jitter an issue and a USB reclocker is only making a difference if the PCM master clock is not designed properly (= it audibly fluctuates).

[@JonAnderhub]

Audio engineering has little to do with jitter. The vast majority of jitter issues have to do with the quality of the power supply in the playback DAC and USB "reclockers" have absolutely no effect on jitter because the DAC uses buffers and its own clock to set the digital to analog conversion process regardless of any additional clocks in the chain.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@JonAnderhub Audio engineering on electronics nowadays is as much about digital design than analog design. Jitter in a digital audio path on the consumer side is the result of the DAC not clocking precisely the samples out. Best is that the USB audio is clocked with the DAC in full control and the data flow is asynchronous and buffered (implicit feedforward to the sink) and the DAC buffers the samples to fully manage the clock precisely and independently of the source. Bad is when the flow is synchronous and you end up having to lock the DAC clock to the the USB SOF (start of frame) clock. Jitter is a non-issue for any carefully designed digital audio path.

[@JonAnderhub]

@@ThinkingBetter While I agree with some of what you are saying I would like to clear up a few things. Audio Engineers may have input into how they would like the electronics to behave, it is Electrical Engineers who design and build the electronics, not Audio Engineers. More importantly, capturing analog audio is absolutely the highest priority in the design of analog-to-digital converters. Next, there is no such thing as USB audio. USB is merely a standard use in the transmission of data from one device to another. The data can be anything from text, video, audio, controller information, pictures, or anything else that conforms to the data protocol. Any external effects such as RFI, power fluctuations, or noise generated by sources has no effect on the transfer of the completely digital data.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@JonAnderhubDifferent companies use different definition per job title. “Audio engineeri” is a very broad title. Development of speaker drivers, cross-over filters, speaker boxes, DSP layouts, room correction, and audio circuit architecture/designs. Usually you want an audio expert to be involved in all the pieces that can impact audio quality including the oscillator circuit. It doesn’t mean this engineer will do the electrical engineering itself incl. layout and deliver Gerbers.

[@ThinkingBetter]

”USB audio” is obviously digital audio via a USB connection following one of the standard protocols for the data transfer. The term is commonly used when discussing this subset of the overall USB standard. Different modes exist for how the data is transferred as synchronous, asynchronous and adaptive. The USB audio protocol allows automatic interoperability by the protocol choosing the mode automatically to ensure seamless connectivity. Still you can have settings such as sample rate. E.g. I run my KEF LSX II speakers connected to my iMac at 192kHz 24 bits via USB as a Mac configuration. This unfortunately means sample rate conversion happening on the source and destination side (the KEFs run DSP at 96kHz). The sample rate conversion algorithm is also an example of audio engineering btw. Different SR algorithms can sound differently. It’s a subject of potentially more significance than some imaginary clock jitter or USB cable quality issue.

[@allansh828]

I highly recommend Holo Audio Titanis USB Regenerator. It’s bus powered and performs better than Uptone ISO Regen on LPS.

[@smokingsnowman7838]

Jsut look at the measurements and you know all the usb filter is in the best case snake oil in the worst case a snake bite

[@brandonburr4900]

I have both the audioquest jitterbug and the uptone usb reclocker and both will improve the sound out of your pc/phone as a steaming source. The uptone reclocker is definately better than the jitterbug but at multiple times the price and requires an external power supply. It performs better when using better power supplies (linear ones and not the wallwart ones). What's cool is will improve the sound using headphones or more expensive 2 channel dac. I don't care for all the many boxes, cords and external supper supplies to improve usb from a pc, but that is what I have found. In the future would like to go to a more dedicated streamer with a more optimized usb out. Question for Paul. Had any experience with mutec usb interfaces in your studio? I have heard they might be good as well and folks use them in stuio/production areas. Thanks Paul!

[@CarlVanDoren61]

So a good DAC doesn't need one, duh

[@agentbrown321]

I added a jitterbug fmj that plugs into pc and it made a HUGE difference. It's like a veil was lifted. Could hear small details in sound I never knew were there. This is only plugged into a geshelli labs jnog3 akm, a saga+ preamp and to elac navis bookshelves/svs sb1000 pro. Incredible.

[@mikkol79]

You mean jnog2?

[@Dj-Jon-E-C]

I like some of pauls vids but some of it is just over the top to point where there would not be any difference. USB noise floor is so low no one with even notice it. Most of it is to point where if you hear no difference then it's pointless wasting loads of good cash to improve something that you can't hear or tell the difference by. Having said that I like some of his vids just not to the point where should have isolate power and things. If there is a difference in sound I love to know though but to me it's at a point where you can't.

[@is1dre]

But USB is flawed for computer audio - why use it at all? Ethernet is so much better.

[@morbidmanmusic]

Hit the gym.

[@JonAnderhub]

Awww more "Audiophile" mumbo jumbo. USB "filters" and USB "clocks" have absolutely no effect on the USB signal and in some cases actually make the signal worse. First, let's dispel the 'Audiophile" half-truth myth about "noisy computers". Computers work with digital files and audio in a computer is a digital file. If the noise in computers affected digital files your computer wouldn't be able to work. The information that gets sent down a USB cable is digital information and any electrical noise in the transmission is totally disregarded by the receiving DAC. Second, let's dispel the "Audiophile" myth that the USB signal needs to be reclocked. The original conversion of an audio signal into a digital file uses a clock and the DAC will use its own clock to convert the digital signal back into analog. There is no need to reclock the USB signal and reclocking the signal has absolutely no effect on the resulting audio because the DAC will use its own clock for the conversion with no regard to any other clock in the signal chain. So save yourself a bunch of money and don't buy into this snake oil "Audiophile" mumbo jumbo.

[@geddylee501]

Like baking the same cake in different ovens expecting it to taste different

[@dontcare563]

You can discuss this at any audiophile forum and get 100 different opinions. This by no means is the only valid opinion or that you are even right. USB interfaces are different with every DAC and some are much better than others. My DAC has Galvanic isolation so may do much better but that doesn't mean everyone's USB interface is good!

[@JonAnderhub]

@@dontcare563 This is not an opinion, this is factual and can be proven repeatedly regardless of the type or price of the equipment. Incidentally "galvanic isolation" is just isolation for incoming power and is just using a transformer which even cheap equipment does. The quality of the USB interface is almost irrelevant because it is just being used to pass on digital information to the DAC.

[@dontcare563]

@@JonAnderhub The jitter and noise from using the USB on the Holo Audio MAY KTE is almost non-existent! I don't know how I can make it any clearer for you! MANY things in High End Audio are opinions and yours are no different! Stop acting like a know it all and assume you have all the answers and everyone else is wrong! My God some Audiophiles are so arrogant it drives me crazy! The bottom line is implementation of the USB on a DAC is extremely important! Not all are created equal!

[@JonAnderhub]

@@dontcare563 The jitter and lack of noise have absolutely nothing to do with the Holo Audio MAY KTE because the receiving DAC is only looking for the digital information sent over the USB so no noise on the USB connection affects the DAC. Additionally, the DAC uses its own clock to determine the timing of the samples regardless of what clocking has been done previously so the only place where jitter can occur is in the DAC clock. I act like I know it because I DO KNOW IT! Stop acting like you know what you are talking about because obviously you don't

[@arthurott4561]

USB is crap, I2S is the way to go.

[@robgallos4669]

I use both connections on my system and I have to concede that USB has come a long way. I absolutely love it on my Aurender / Holo May KTE dac combo. 😀 (I use the I2S with a PS Audio SACD transport.)

[@arthurott4561]

@@robgallos4669 Unfortunately, most streamer/bridge manufacturers have not adopted I2S and are still using the god-awful USB interface. I was using the USB input on a Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic DAC, initially with a Auralic Aries G2 and then with a Signature Rendu SE optical Tier II and I hated the USB interface so much (even after spending a small fortune on high-end USB cables trying to polish the turd that is USB) that I bought a Aqua LinQ Network Interface so I could use the AQlink, an aqua I2S proprietary connection over a Ethernet cable. It sounds better and it's much more stable than USB.

[@dontcare563]

@@robgallos4669 I also own the Holo May KTE and the USB interface is exceptional. With its galvanic isolation I would guess it won't benefit at all from any reclocker. Great DAC even with my computer feeding it with Tidal/Roon. I honestly believe this is so dependent on your DAC and many people don't understand how good USB can be.

[@arthurott4561]

@Arpad Toth I don't know what you mean.

[@dontcare563]

I2S was never meant or designed as an external connection. It was meant for connections of not more than a few inches internally (Usually traces on a PCB) to connect internal boards and parts together. I'm not saying it doesn't work or isn't good, but this is why it isn't a standard! USB has come a long way and has matured very well for audio!

[@ianorigbo7617]

First

[@RoderikvanReekum]

Great work 🥇🏆🍾🥂👏🇺🇸

[@tnarch]

Second

[@RoderikvanReekum]

Good work! 🥈🏆🍾🥂👏🇺🇸

[@JonAnderhub]

Do USB Filters Make DACs Sound Better? kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKbPcpaCp9ODoaM

[@jimwood1584]

I have Schiit Bifrost 2 AudioQuest USB Carbon sounds great with Schiit Unison USB