Upgrade external clock or power cables?

[@BSD2000]

In my own experience in the audio recording world, using a single, high quality, low jitter, external master clock for all AD/DA devices such as audio interfaces with word clock inputs, digital recorders (like the Korg MR-2000S), external analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog converters (like a Black Lion Audio Revolution EXP ADAT expander, RME ADI-8 DS) - makes a significant and quite audible difference. In fact, the majority of major recording studios (recording digitally) will use a high-end master clock for all of their digital devices. Upgrading my master clock made a big difference in my studio in both the recordings I make and playback.

[@thomasgunn4146]

I think that’s the trick. Having a master clock for just one device, I’m not sure it would make that much difference; especially when your DAC probably has a good enough clock in it already. However, when the clock is connected to multiple devices, and it gets all of those devices on the same page? That’s where the magic happens if I had to guess. I’ve been wanting to pick up a clock for a while now, but the only device I currently own that can take that 10mhz input is my network switch unfortunately.

[@marcinwielgus9824]

I truly like your sense of humour and your audio advice. Thank you

[@toneysunny9283]

neither

[@poserwannabe1]

I ran 3 runs of 4/0 welding cable to my rack, both the wife AND the dog heard a HUGE improvement...👍

[@PraxZimmerman]

nah man, you need 10mm x 100mm copper bussbars.

[@poserwannabe1]

@@PraxZimmerman 🤣🤣😆

[@geoff37s38]

Don’t forget the Magic Beans. Put one on top of each loudspeaker.

[@laurentzduba1298]

Canadian quarters oriented to certain mystical directions on top of loudspeakers - worked on Alon speakers since 1997.

[@grahamstevenson1740]

'Better' bass surely ?

[@CaveyMoth]

I'm happy with the Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC. It has separate clocks for 44.1khz and 48khz integers, and a switching relay that clicks to let you know when the audio frequency or bit depth has changed. It's just one of those things that satisfies my OCD for bit perfect sound. Now if only it supported ASIO.

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

A little of what you said is correct, but the overall conclusion is likely out of whack. You are correct that long term stability is meaningless. It is all about close in phase noise. The impact of improving this performance in digital audio is MASSIVE. If I am not mistaken, Chris speaks to the importance of this in PSAudio blogs. He cites the impact of the clock choice on the Direct Stream DAC. So I checked. It uses a Crystek clock. Like most sub $10k DACs. It is a good clock, but entry level in audiophile land. The Crystek CCHD-957 24.5 MHz clock has a phase noise at 10Hz of -97.950dBc/Hz. The clock I use measures -150dBc/Hz at 10Hz. Let me tell you the difference in sound is reasonably good digital sounding DAC vs natural nuanced analogue playback. It is a dramatic improvement. Every step up in close in phase noise on the same DAC yields more of the holly grail we all seek. Of course, the rest of your system has to be transparent enough to allow the good stuff to come through. But most peoples systems are severely limited in the source. By comparison, a power cable can make a nice change. Is it worth $5k. No way. Could a clock be worth $5k? Absolutely. Mine is a DIY DAC. The Crystek is about $35. My clock might be $200. But my DAC with that clock will smoke any commercial DAC under $20k. A commercial clock with these phase noise numbers will be over $10k. So your advice is IMHO dead wrong. Your own DAC designer Chris would fully agree BTW.

[@zijunai8020]

i agree with you. however this channel is geared towards entry level people with entry level gear.

[@drdelewded]

@@zijunai8020 no it's not

[@SatanDynastyKiller]

I was thinking of building my own DAC- any good suggestions to get me started incl your clock details etc ? Thanks in advance.

[@spacemissing]

The most responsible AND most logical thing to do is forget about both of those options.

[@nickwilson2318]

haha yep

[@ryacus]

What's next hiring a necromancer or medium to contact dead audio experts of yore?

[@wyup]

I think however good is an external clock, if the input source has jitter, no perfect clock is going to help cleaning it. The external clock is useful to sync an interface to another, a DAT.. Best clock is the one that generates AND decodes the signal, such as a standalone CD Player. The moment you introduce a dac with another clock you have got to lock to the input clock signal, and you need tricks such as resampling or PLL (correct me if I'm wrong), that degrade the signal, because sooner or later it's going to drift. Optimal thing would be an external clock that manages both the input and dac clocks.

[@jeremyhughes6485]

The best option is to hand wire the electricity transformer that serves your house and buy low jitter coal for your local power station.

[@grahamstevenson1740]

Yup, that would work. Mind you, it would need to be 'point to point' wiring !

[@arkaitzcarrasco2216]

Like you say, I don't think accuracy is that important like people say in a two channel DAC device... Other ways.... If you think in a studio environment, where let's say you recorded drums in your studio, then the guitars and bass are recorded at home using different gear, vocals in an other one, and then again mixed and mastered in the first studio I say, holding up 100+ tracks.... that's when I think there is a different because of stability. Not in a long term of playing music during two years, but because you get more accurate (or more equal) reproduction compared to when it whas recorded. Like in live situations, having different digital consoles, stageboxes and interfaces in the same time, sync them with one clock or another, sync them to the more accurate one seems to always sound better. And in theory it makes sense. Thanks for your videos and posts.

[@fotobrell9593]

The idea of external clock is to synchronize multiple converters in a studio environment

[@bilguana11]

Analysis Plus sounds better than Nordost anything.

[@justanobody4983]

Power cables are my next “to try” product. Wasn’t a believer of cables before but now i upgraded my interconnect and speaker wires. I hope power cables can improve my modest system.

[@dudemastermaster8944]

In my experience they can have the most noticeable impact.

[@Harald_Reindl]

@@dudemastermaster8944 lol

[@isacatt99]

A Power cord can make a noticeable difference if you have a revealing system (PMC/Naim here)…. But in our experience, a dedicated AC line (AWG 10-14, as a dedicated circuit) makes a HUGE difference, far bigger than the power cord, and is a lot cheaper. Cheers

[@justanobody4983]

@@isacatt99 i wish i could do that but its not currently possible in my living situation. I have to settle with power cords for now.

[@Harald_Reindl]

@@isacatt99 it is laughable to pretend the last 50 cm in a hundreds of meters power chain make a difference - come on - common sense

[@scarabeo500gt]

Interesting - I have a Prima Luna Classic Tube CD Player with a "TUBE CLOCK" and it is the Best sounding CD Player I've ever heard on my system...

[@dimebag667]

Jesus Christ, I love you Paul! You're authentic (first and foremost), informative and just a great dude. Having you in the world makes it that much sweeter. Thanks man 👍

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

Thank you, Chris! What a kind note. Made my morning.

[@francois-xaviergonnet7216]

Modern clocks are so precise... If your equipment is good, the upgrade should make no real difference. You can test it but don't expect that much. Powercables could be a better option, but it's all about matching, not about price. A good match is far better than a random expensive cable. Take care of the placebo effect...

[@2ChannelAudio]

Haha... Love your videos 👏🏻👍🏻

[@ProfMScHaroldoLRibas]

heloo Paul, Im Haroldo Ribas from Brasil. i have a question: for Hi-end music, whats the best model of tweeter ? silk dome, ribbon, titanium dome, or diamond dome?

[@Roamany-Jones]

The one that sounds the best to your ears 👂 not other people’s

[@Scopolamine46]

Ann Arbor Michigan is a great college town!

[@Scopolamine46]

@@nopinionocomnt really? What happened? The Pandemic? I haven’t been in Ann Arbor since 2009.

[@QoraxAudio]

External clock or power cable? Neither. Save up for better speakers!

[@Harald_Reindl]

and after the speakers treat your fucking room - but wait: first treat the room because you don't even hear your current speakers before

[@QoraxAudio]

@@Harald_Reindl Do you have a fucking room? Strange house you've got.

[@Harald_Reindl]

@@QoraxAudio yeah - I have a fucking room with fucking 300ms reverb time over the fucking full range - it sounds fucking better then fucking expensive gear in a fucking untreated room at least 50% what you hear is your room and not your speakers, amplifier and for gods sake not your cables

[@hopje01]

We call it the bedroom.

[@QoraxAudio]

@@hopje01 Ah yes, we call it the bedroom too, because it's not just for fucking, there has to be slept too lol

[@allansh828]

I am pretty sure most Hi-Fi clocks are made for low jitter. Nobody ever mentioned long-term error.

[@johnolson4977]

Gerald , Buying some jewelry for your wife maybe money better spent.

[@peterr.7429]

I have an old Soviet wind up clock, it keeps time just ok so I will try hooking that up …..

[@Bassotronics]

This clock thing is new to me and I’m confused. I will need more research.

[@BrianSu]

Good digital audio equipment have a clock signal coaxial connector at the back. You’ll need a clock that matches the frequency the device is expecting. Some clocks have frequency selection. Having said that, modern systems use a standard 10 MHz clock signal for easy compatibility.

[@Bassotronics]

@ *Brian Su* What would happen if I set the alarm of the clock to a certain time?

[@BrianSu]

@@Bassotronics yup

[@RasheedKhan-he6xx]

So like a CD recording is sampling the music 44,100 times a second. There are that many data points that your player needs to read and transmit in exactly a, second. So now imagine what happens to the sound if the timing on your player doesn't match the timing of the recording? Basically youre either speeding up or slowing down the playback. Secondly what if its inconsistent, ticking a little faster sometimes and a little slower sometimes. The music will now be warbling all over the place. But my examples are extreme. As Paul said, if we're talking femtoseconds, you definitely can't hear it.

[@BrianSu]

@@RasheedKhan-he6xx This is a very good explanation. Again as I mentioned, the idea is that an external clock is called a 'world clock'. You want your CD transport and DAC to tick according to the same clock so they are in-sync. You're right about not being able to hear the effects of the audio pitch changing due to the clock speeding up or slowing down by such a little amount.

[@CyberBeep_kenshi]

Just to throw a wrench, i have seen, in person as well, measurements on power cables, expensive and even rusted ones. And there is just negligible difference in what they deliver to the equipment. Unless your house has a crap electrical system, then look there. But living in a modern house in the Netherlands, its a waste of money. Fun fact, or rather a red flag: i asked to loan cables from a supplier who said it would work. And he refused..... letting you draw the conclusions

[@vmpty]

A good DAC should have a good clock inside already. On the other hand, audio switches can benefit a lot from a good external clock and power supply.

[@mat.b.]

should, but dont always. DACs often dont have the best clocks they can have in them, and are often voltage controlled rather than temp compensated, etc.

[@Detailguy101]

external clock wtf? Never heard what the hell is external clock!

[@slowpoke96Z28]

Where does it stop? Rip the wires out of the wall going to the breaker panel? Use audiophile circuit breakers and audiophile wiring to the meter? Call the power company and tell them to have one of these power cord companies redo the wiring from the transformer to the meter??

[@jean-paulschweitzer6211]

French says, you never made a racing horse from a donkey! Unfortunately, that´s the fundament of today audio business.

[@rw3915]

Valhalla 2 power cable…. I’m guessing that’s about a $5,000+ dollar cord. No one buys a top tier cord like that, unless you have an equally top tier DAC or CD spinner from the crowd like dCS, MSB, Esoteric Grandiose (sp?), Luxman D-10X and the list goes on. If one has equipment that starts at around $20 large, it’s already got the top of the line DAC-clock combo in it, so getting a better clock would make likely little to no difference. Let’s say one has a spinner from 2010 like an Esoteric K-1 which was a $20 large spinner in its day but the DAC is no longer up to say an the resolving capability of an ESS Sabre DAC with 8 channels, or the TI 17XX chip set, then getting a new DAC would definitely help, as the transport in that K-1 is super solid. Back to that power chord, have a good power conditioner like a Synergistic Research UEF/FEQ combo, and put some Black Diamond cones underneath it, and put a Symposium base underneath it all.

[@ryacus]

Sounds like they are intentionally making inferior products so they can convince you to buy more accoutrements.

[@CyberBeep_kenshi]

Meanwhile using regular power cables of 2 euros does exactly the same thing....

[@johnnytoobad7785]

"Let's work the problem people. Let's not make things worse by guessing.." --- Gene Krantz.

[@MSw-ht9xm]

It's called a digital to digital Re-Clocker...denafrips makes the best for the money...

[@bjrnhee1646]

A stable clock has an effect on the sound quality, I have experienced, but it is better to invest in a good DAC, which has a low jitter level or no jitter at all, eg Benchmark DACs, which have an amazingly good sound and do not care with how much jitter it is exposed to from external devices such as CD transports, music streamers etc.

[@HiFiInsider]

my vote is for Nordost Vahalla cable. I auditioned the USB cable and it's amazing. Wish I didn't try it - cannot unhear it. If you have a good DAC, it should have a good clock.. external clock is snake oil. lol....

[@AccuphaseMan]

I think the idea isn't that the dac doesn't have a good clock, and more to do with upgrading the existing clock. I think of it like a preamp might come with a good MC/MM phono but a better quality external phono will be an upgrade.

[@fkaptijn7111]

I am a fan of NBS cables. But not all are real good.

[@richardt3371]

"I auditioned the USB cable and it's amazing" - hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. That's not me laughing - that's the salesman. I bet they had a wager on who could get some moron to buy a £3000 USB cable. Did they at least offer to burn it in for you? Ahahahahahahaha!

[@AccuphaseMan]

@@richardt3371 Cope harder

[@HiFiInsider]

@@richardt3371 have you tried the Nordost Valhalla USB cable?

[@unicornsqueezins7906]

Directions unclear, blender caught in ceiling fan.

[@BrianSu]

I thought the idea of using a world clock is so all your digital boxes tick with the same signal that comes from a single source??

[@BrianSu]

just to add, the reason all banks, the stock market, utility companies etc. use GPS time is for synchronisation rather than accuracy. We want a single source of truth when processing financial related things.

[@Harald_Reindl]

different world! world clock and synchronised time is relevant for servers but not for audio - your music don't give a shit how late it is

[@BrianSu]

@@Harald_Reindl but the audio ones are called world clocks which to me implies that they provide a single source of time for all the equipment. Clocks have multiple output connectors.

[@amb3cog]

I would ask this question to Hans Beekhuyzen. He's the digital audio expert, and he's definitely knowledgeable enough to know which choice is best. This isn't Paul's specialty, as you can tell by his answer that made very little sense to me. I've never ever heard of a clock for digital audio being advertised for long term error avoidance.

[@amb3cog]

@@HenryLaw19891024 Did you actually read what I wrote? Or are your reading comprehension skills really that awful? I guess there's also a very possible third option, which is that you just felt like being a jerk, and/or starting trouble. But either way. Why I'm here is none of your business anyway. So I wouldn't be too concerned about it, if I were you. Thank God I'm not though. Have a wonderful night sir. ✌️

[@AccuphaseMan]

@Taco Cope harder

[@ToadStool942]

Hans Beekhuyzen? Are you serious? Apparently you, like Hans, think MQA is a superior digital format when in fact, it's been an inferior format since the day it was released. Obviously, this isn't your area of expertise either. Nor is it Hans. Many of the comments in this channel on this topic really seem to bring out the true colors of mainstream high-end audio. And it ain't pretty.

[@andydelle4509]

"I would ask this question to Hans Beekhuyzen. He's the digital audio expert". I too would strongly disagree.

[@amb3cog]

Two critics, and not one positive word offered between either one of them. No alternative offered. No explanation on why you're attacking the man, other then one of his opinions. On one single little subject. Not very strong arguments by either of you. With zero advice given by either of you. You both may as well have on a t-shirt that says "I'm an internet troll", because your behavior reeks of it. Probably a couple of ASR Cultists with too much time on your hands. At least I was trying to offer a hand, and help. You've both offered nothing, but negativity, and attitudes. Didn't your Mother ever tell you that if you've got nothing nice to say? Say nothing at all. I'll stick by Hans, myself. At least he has the courage to put himself, and his opinions out there to be criticized on a weekly basis. What have you two done to help out the audio community lately? I think we all already know the answer to that question though. Don't we? Nothing!

[@ZZ-yv5ux]

The rest of your house are wired with just plain old wire, adding 1m of $2k power cable to that makes no sense. Add a power conditioner/regenerator or power your house using solar and call it a day.

[@CyberBeep_kenshi]

Exactly. Same for 600 euro network cables..... which is of course a digital signal, but the source can be 10000 km far. Going through switches, routers, cables, satellites etc. That last meter doesn't do anything. 0, zilch, nada

[@krismichalsky]

Please show me on a scope or some type of testing equipment that changing out power cables actually makes an audible difference. It does not, and never will, unless the OEM power cable was extremely inferior, which most are not.

[@Roamany-Jones]

Try hooking it up, take a reading then bend the cables at a 90 degree angle then look at the difference then you won’t have any doubts that they make a difference!

[@johnsweda2999]

I think he's a systems analyst If you run your DAC through an chord m-scaler it sounds a lot better did you know that? producing 1 million taps

[@edd2771]

The clock has an oven? Now I’m more confused.

[@amb3cog]

Yes some do. To keep the crystal at a constant temperature, for accuracy.

[@user-od9iz9cv1w]

Every crystal oscillator has a temperature at which it performs best. Typically around 85C. So an oven is employed to keep the device at its optimal temperature improving its close in phase noise and delivering a noticeable improvement in sound quality in a digital playback system.

[@stevescudder1507]

My oven has a clock.

[@BrianSu]

Atomic clocks do

[@BrianSu]

@@amb3cog Crystal? I thought these were atomic clocks?

[@janinapalmer8368]

I totally agree ... what a waste of money buying a high stability clock to hook up ... if your ears can tell the difference then your ears might have other problems.lol 😀.... people often spend too much time and money trying to squeeze the last tiny drop out of their home systems .. you must be more objective rather than subjective towards listening... or you are defeating the whole idea ... as Paul says : " I hope that helps .... byeee 😆😆😆.."

[@ryacus]

I honestly don't believe that many people are hearing it one guy was probably trolling one day to see how many people would follow his prank.

[@nervouscough7115]

Trying to find a power cable that goes from my amplifier to the wall then continues through the wall and breaker box and to the poll. That would be optimal.

[@AccuphaseMan]

I got a better idea Chance, try getting a power conditioner, then you can isolate the problem. Makes life a lot simpler than your cable quest.

[@richardt3371]

@@AccuphaseMan Irony not your strong point, I'm guessing.

[@Mark-lq3sb]

@@AccuphaseMan Not a power conditioner, but a power plant.

[@editorjuno]

@@Mark-lq3sb -- Dispensaries in places like CA and AZ will happily sell you some real power plant, which will be have a much more beneficial effect on your listening experience than that of supposedly superior AC.

[@Mark-lq3sb]

@@editorjuno The keyword in your statement is: "supposedly" Which means you haven't ruled it out completely. ...and all that shit does is "cloud the experience"

[@markwilson6286]

if your electronics are not highly resolving forget all these upgrades ? cables or clock LOL if you have a real high end system then start with cables / most people do not know what real sound even is ? when they hear real sound they dont like it they are so used to ss amps colouring music x

[@mr.b4444]

My vote is to listen to the performance, not the equipment.

[@crventura]

I read a few of these comments and they are a laugh :). External clocks ARE NOT an upgrade of the internal clock found on a DAC. They complement the DAC's clock in long term stability and lowering its jitter. This kind of add on, only makes sense on very high end systems where you can really hear the improvements, believe me !! No wonder most people make jokes of this, they don't know better and should be forgiven for they're ignorance. This is a case were "Ignorance is bliss". Adding an external clock is fine tuning and should always come after all the cables in the system are chosen. What to expect from this upgrade ? Only resolution, for those that didn't experiment it yet; imagine a choir being played through your HiFi system, by adding an External clock, you can differentiate all the individual voices in that choir, if remove, you would only listen to the choir mass of sound. Another improvement is with instrument separation and voices, they became a lot more natural (silky smooth) Hope this helps

[@Mark-lq3sb]

"red" Funny, all I see is 'black' print.....................

[@matzeflamingos]

Both But first power cables

[@ThinkingBetter]

A DAC that needs an external clock does not deserve one...as it's not a well-designed DAC.

[@ACM1000000PT]

+1.

[@zijunai8020]

take a look at dcs vivaldi

[@AccuphaseMan]

Never heard him say his dac needed one. Think you're putting words in the guy's mouth.

[@ThinkingBetter]

@@AccuphaseMan I’m sure PS audio’s engineers are designing excellent internal clock circuits. Concerning dcs valdi, we are talking over-priced snake oil. Paying US$15,000 for a clock generator driving a DAC is nothing more than idiocy.

[@AccuphaseMan]

@@ThinkingBetter Why so?

[@bluesfish55m51]

🙄

[@rusedgin]

Oh my god... When you don't know what to do with your money...

[@mat.b.]

AC power cables dont do crap

[@bikemike1118]

Power cable first…not necessarily Nordost though. Try a higher PAD instead for example!

[@mat.b.]

why lol

[@bikemike1118]

@ … because it often times brings more remarkable improvements. Nothing to ‚lol‘ in that case!

[@drdelewded]

As soon as BS Audio starts making external clocks this video will be pulled..

[@raffiequler7510]

I hope you didn't mean (bull) Schiit Audio. They make some really good schiit.

[@drdelewded]

@@raffiequler7510 No I meant PS Audio

[@Mark-lq3sb]

They won't. Bet a frosty 24 pack on that.

[@johnholmes912]

not even wrong SIGH

[@PraxZimmerman]

Upgrading the power cables without doing anything about the house wiring seems pointless. Install a good power conditioner first at least.

[@ChiefExecutiveOrbiter]

4 minutes and 20 seconds of feel-good audio vibes

[@kennethlee1818]

Paul, I enjoy your videos but in this video, you clearly show that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. May I suggest that you do some research prior to making a video on this very important topic for audiophiles with high-end audio equipment. For audiophile with lower quality equipment, this topic may not be relevant (ie they may not be able to discern any improvements in the sound quality). In general, I would start with power cable which do improve the sound quality in most systems but the cost of the power cable should match the quality of the equipment and the hearing ability of the individual. There's no point in upgrading the power cable if one cannot hear any improvements in their sound system or don't really care about any improved sound quality at all.

[@ToadStool942]

Most of your comments here are nonsensical. But certainly indicative of a mainstream "high-end" audio mindset.

[@raffiequler7510]

Kenneth, you need to spend more time watching videos about Schiit Audio products on their channel.

[@ryacus]

I don't believe most people can hear improvements even on the most expensive gear sure they claim as such but people usually feel the need to lie when large amounts of money are involved.

[@ToadStool942]

@@ryacus You're exactly right. That's because many cannot audibly discern / interpret what they hear. For some reason they think they're born with such discernment perhaps because they have 2 ears and passed a hearing test 2 years ago. It's by far the greatest weakness in this industry and that's why so many cling to high cost equipment and to measurements including audio reviewers and even editors-in-chief. Nobody expects a critique of the fine arts to be born with the ability to discern what he sees without an eduction and training his eyes. Yet, in "high-end" audio, there are seemingly highly-educated types who think it's an in-born talent. In fact, I have every reason to believe that the creators of MQA banked on this lack of listening skills among the masses such that if they could get a couple of editors-in-chief to endorse the MQA product with claims like "experiencing the birth of a new world" by John Atkinson of Stereophile and similar crap from Robert Harley of TAS, the masses would follow suit and many believed. Thank goodness the MQA effort seems to have failed so far but in the process have convinced so many that it was a superior format to anything else when in reality it wasn't much better than mp3. All because so many have checked their brains and ears off at the door. And frankly that's why I commented above about Kenneth.

[@ProfessorMatic]

Anyone claiming power cables can change sound I have zero respect for.