Hot Rod Deluxe IV | Is It Really Better Than Previous Versions?

For more info, Subscribe to this channel, join us at PsionicAudio, or email us at [e-mail].

[@MarceloDurham]

These videos relax me for some reason.. better then sleepy tea.

[@Idontlikethisever]

Since I started watching these videos I feel like I can’t by a used amp anymore feeling good about it really sucks. 😂😂😂

[@SwedishMeattball]

most amps are reliable

[@mcbacau9315]

i am scarred to buy a new one olso :)))

[@savadorp9948]

I'm so glad I found your channel before I bought one. I was seriously considering one of these.

[@retread1083]

*Marketing department:* Sales are softening on the Hot Rod Deluxe III, we need a plan. *Engineering department:* We can make a few minor tweaks to the preamp and reverb that will cost almost nothing. Also, reliability has become a serious issue. We need to abandon the cheap-ass electrolytics for some properly spec'd ones, upgrade a few resistors with higher power, lower mass units, and upgrade a few zeners. It'll cost a bit to retool the assembly process to allow mounting the resistors and zeners with an air gap, but we can amortize that cost over time. *Accounting department:* Okay to the tweaks but we're vetoing the 'lytics. We have too many caps in the pipeline. Also no to retooling the assembly process. Our supply of black chicken head knobs is nearly exhausted. We'll change those to WHITE! Have Celestion create a new model speaker with an enormous A on the magnet that can be easily seen. No one will be able to see the internals of the amp so the lack of improvements in reliability won't be obvious for years. Marking the amp with a IV will imply improvement. And the total increase in cost will be pennies, not dollars. There's your plan.

[@garygratzer9670]

Love your post. 😊 One thing I wouldn’t take the Celestion A lightly. It made a huge difference in one of my customers DRRI amp along with a few other mods that Lyle recommended.

[@arkybeagle6159]

If it were common enough knowledge, they could add five bucks to the price to cover all that and nobody'd blink. It's a thousand dollar amp now. That's half a percent. But it's not common knowledge.

[@gerrykavanagh]

This reads like someone that has been heavily traumatised through dealing with accounting. I hope you have gotten the help you need.

[@changestrangers]

I bought myself a used HRD IV over the weekend from an amp tech who had upgraded the electrical wiring and replaced the capacitors. Plays wonderfully.

[@johns4751]

Demonstrating reality and sharing extremely useful information, time and time again. Thank you Lyle!

[@Tonetwisters]

I have a 1994 Blues Deluxe that I bought brand new; outside of some noisy pots early on, it has been a fabulous amp, and I played out with it for years.

[@georgenaha1001]

I was never a huge fan of these amps, but I played through a HRD IV last summer on a U.K. tour, and it sounded really good.

[@BamTechVids]

was thinking of buy one.. this vid opened my eyes. would only buy it used if I could open it up and inspect the boards.

[@jamesprice6381]

repaired n modded these amps since 99, they took my r/c combo at the 4th stage plate n moved it to V2 input grid ..its nice.. clear.. they also run cathode to grid resistors on 1st stage and grid ( Dumble tweak found at 3rd stage or first stage of OD) i blv, really brightens it up, course many other ways ta skin the cat...cheers,

[@MOAB-UT]

Nice. Do you recommend a Limited Blues Deluxe over the Hot Rod Deluxe? My priority is quiet and reliable- or a Vibrolux? Any year better than others? Hoping to stay around $1,000-$2,000 range.

[@TheRecordist]

Man I love your videos! I wish you were local to me. I/m picking up a used Fender Hot Rod Deluxe IV soon and I wanted to get it modded and upgraded. Fantastic work, Lyle!

[@MOAB-UT]

Did you grab one- how do you like it?

[@TheRecordist]

@ hey. I did end up getting a great deal on one. It’s the half and half tweed/tolex one with the creamback in there. It’s been fabulous. Really loud. But I use it for recording only. I wrote and record songs a lot to test audio gear and I’m always miking it up. It’s great!

[@MOAB-UT]

@@TheRecordist Waste for recording- use Neural DSP. And it's mic'ing.

[@TheRecordist]

@@MOAB-UT why would I do that? I literally test mics on my channel. I mic the speaker. Same sweet spot every time with a host of different mics. I also test different outboard preamps the exact same way. This gives a clear reference point across all types of gear. Why in the world would I ever use Neural DSP for that?

[@MOAB-UT]

@@TheRecordist You said you were recording personal songs. Testing gear did not seem like your focus. Neural will still get you great results for the former. We all know which mics are good- no need for that testing IMHO.

[@1Dougloid]

It's a good argument for shotgunning certain weaknesses of these amps if they've never been serviced before.

[@vincenzocucinaitaliana8168]

no issues and sounds incredible

[@antholbrook3985]

Very useful video. I think I will look at something else… Thank you 👍👍👍

[@theguitaramptech]

I found the same problems Lyle. You think fender would have learned after thousands of failures of the 16v supplies. Elevating the 470s is ok, but I now mount heat-sinked 470 directly to the chassis permanently removing the major heat source and then elevate the zeners. No returns…yet 🙏

[@paulstaffordcook8799]

Such valuable info, thanks Lyle, your channel is like gold dust !

[@captainfineweather5610]

Isn't it indeed! But your work, Sir, is no less valuable. I regularly rewatch your "Cranked AC30S1" video, partly because I own one myself, partly because I love your playing. And I do love the accent!

[@paulstaffordcook8799]

Well thank you Sir, I appreciate that! Cheers 🍻

[@paulstaffordcook8799]

@@captainfineweather5610Well thank you sir, I appreciate that! Cheers 🍻

[@r.weaver3769]

While I'm not a fan of the drive side of the Hot Rod Series, I do like the amps, I have Mesas, PRS, Fender, Peavey...My Blues Jr. Is a work in process, but my favorite grab-n-go amp. I could sell them all but the Blues Jr and Deluxe Reverb.

[@barbmelle3136]

From Leo: I agree with you, the corp types have no desire to make better amps. In addition to the board burning resistors, I really don't like the solid strand wire in those grey ribbons connecting the tube board. Once an amp has been apart three or four times they are the cause of some weird problems. The old blues deluxe amps had the extended legs on the power tube sockets, protecting against heat build up. I have seen more than a few Hot Rods where the tube heat weakens the soldier joints. They get really good money for those amps, it would not cost $6 per amp to make production changes to fix all the problems.

[@bradt.3555]

Something I noticed. I worked on my buddies deluxe same overheating resistors, burning board n traces. I heard that all deluxes, devilles, etc had same problem. He just got a used deville 4x10 and I noticed they slightly changed how they tap the power for the control circuit. It results in a lower voltage so it uses lower ohm resistors to achieve 16v. The resistors don't get anywhere near as hot as before. Not sure if it's a revised design or just used on the bigger amp.

[@JJGuccione]

Great VDO • Thank you. If the Illinois Caps are of poor quality, who manufactures a high-quality replacement?

[@blwnova4155]

Thanks for info - putting me of from buying!

[@Maashauu]

I also had problems with the pilot light where it would sometimes work and sometimes didn't (usually flashed if the amp was hit). I think it was the pad under on the spring under the bulb which didn't make good contact. I also had issues where reverb and presence would suddenly either go 100% or 0% and their potentiometers didn't do anything. This problem went away after I did near complete resolder to the pcb.

[@Merraldooo]

Thank you for this. I’m researching a new amp to get.

[@drewdemaio4162]

Hey Lyle! Love your videos man and thank you for an incredible job on my AC30 head a few years back. The JMI mods were so worth it. I happen to scoop up a Brand new Hot Rod Deluxe today for an really good price and after watching this video, I cracked her open just to peek and interestingly enough, the two white 5w 470 ohm resistors were in fact, elevated about 1/4" of the board and had some type of waxed cloth around the leads just like the resistor I see in the video in the R74 slot. Additionally both the resistors were pushed and glued together. Same IC brand caps though. Any chance Fender is starting to address these issues? Would love to hear your thoughts. Anyone else seeing this?

[@amaturemusicians]

Somebody needs to compile a list of issues that could arise and the parts. Leads me to believe that if I purchased one of these (pick a Fender), I have to take it straight to the tech!

[@MOAB-UT]

That has been done- it's online and easy to find. NO I will not spoon feed you the link. You are a big boy.

[@orionwarren4244]

I was fortunate enough to sell my 10-year-old HR DeVille for $100 more than I paid for it during the early months of the pandemic thanks mainly to those 'stimulus' checks!😄 I had used it for 3 years as my main gigging amp and only had to swap out the crappy 6L6 Groove Tubes (that smoked at a gig) with a nice used set of TADs. Like most Fenders of the 'HotRod' designation, it left a lot to be desired in that regard (pedals got it over the line) but the cleans were typical Fender pristine. Would I buy another? A Fender yes. A 'HotRod'? No.

[@SwedishMeattball]

hotrod was redone entirely ot has v\good gain now

[@TeleCaster66]

Love your vid's!

[@MarksGuitarsCom]

Having owned a new first addition F.A.T. HR Deluxe and then a tweed Mexico version (both long gone) I recently bought a blond IV with the pine cabinet. The reverb is disappointingly shallow. Almost in parallel with the dry signal as opposed to the previous “drowning in reverb” versions which I loved. Is this an “improvement” or perhaps a crappy tank or some other “one off” malady of my particular amp? Thoughts?

[@themonk51]

Thank you.

[@lars-fenin]

bravo, fender!

[@GregoryHillSr]

Now you got me thinking now to check my HRD3....(sigh)😒

[@sythan2000]

Is a vishay ac05 good replacement for the 2 cemented 5 watt 470 ohm resistors pointed out? What you you recommend for replacing the 5w zen diode on cr13, 14? And lastly the 2w r97 replacement that was pointed out? Could you beef the resistors up so they don’t get as hot? Thank you for you videos, I just started watching 2 weeks ago and subscribed.

[@paulcargo4233]

How much could the upgraded zener diode part cost...freakin Fender

[@SkyscraperGuitars]

I always wonder why amp makers don't make a "pro line" of amps like this. They could feature better components and simple fixes to keep the amps functional for longer... They could bump the price up to cover the difference in manufacturing and most of the guys who play out would gladly pay for the reliability... Keep the cheaper version for bedroom players and everyone wins.

[@PsionicAudio]

I think it would be an admission of fault on the existing models. They've already spent so much money trying to convince you the existing ones are perfect...

[@vl292]

V L 1 sekunti sitten In reality it would not be that simple. It practically means you introduce whole another product line and majority will buy the cheap crap, unit price would be high. It would not look that good on paper either, we sell you crap or something borderline ok if you pay 50% more. Much better is to introduce product line below the price point, like really cheap and really crap, makes the crap appear less bad. True story.

[@renodavid]

Doesn’t Fender already do this with their “American Hand-Wired” series? There’s 5 of them and they range from a ‘57 Custom Champ for $1200 up to a ‘57 Custom Twin-Amp for $3500.

[@Murry_in_Arizona]

Lyle how's the tapper on the volume pot? A useable (home) range between 0 and 1-1.25 before pissing off the neighbors was something Fender said they fixed.

[@BradsGuitarGarage]

Gee, why am I not surprised!? The only thing they added was the heater fuse, eh?

[@threeonamatchventura]

Calls it like it is. Wouldn’t it be nice to lay down another 50 to get good components? Cmon Fender!

[@ctcards2636]

Where would you recommend buying new 500v caps for these Hot Rods and Blues Jr amps ? I need to recap a Blues Jr for a friend and I use to buy Bill Ms mod kits with the caps etc and I dont see them anymore sadly.

[@mrbigg7255]

I have a couple of these amps needing your professional touch. Everything you do to make them right. I don’t mind throwing cash at them, because I’ve gotten my money out of them and they’ve served me well. What’s the best way to contact you? I

[@DiogenesCaulfield]

Fixed the dirty sound (some) and potentiometer sweep range not the inside design flaws

[@BITESIZEJONES]

Buy it new or forget it

[@weschilton]

Years ago I came SO close to buying one of these. Seemed like a great pedal platform. But, I just couldn't get past the awful drive channel tone and lack of usability in the volume knob... 0 off, 1 off, 2 holy crap that's loud!

[@voided76]

that's the charm. get it to around 6 on the clean with some humbuckers. ;)

[@tommyoriley4174]

What did you end up buying?

[@motodanny3972]

Looks like these low voltage supply issues only seem to affect the deluxe and not the DeVille. Every one I've seen thats burned the board this bad seems to always be the Deluxe

[@michaelf6492]

I have a question if I bought a version 4 and sent it to you would you change out everything before I even started using this amp. I don’t minded spending a couple hundred to cure the problems before they start. Where are you located.

[@SirLoinMagroin]

Guess I'll wait for version V. Lol.... I think it would be cost prohibitive to get an "upgrade" of all of Fender's existing flaws and increase reliability and roadability. The simple circuits make better sense. No boards with micro parts, or ribbons, etc., need apply. Or just go digital. Wish Fender would have just modded their prior tried and true platforms for today. A Champion 100 has all that Fender clean ready for pedals and two 12" speakers. Just buy two haha. And save a couple hundred. Or a Marshall DSL40CR tube. Or an EVH Iconic Series 40. Or a Blackstar. {All for less}. Maybe if Fender loses market share they will start making better products.

[@stringlocker]

They were a good choice when they were $500. They're creeping up and up. Now they are a thousand and more.

[@patwagon8008]

So if this amp is bad i don't know wth should I buy for this price

[@strumminronin]

IMO The Celestion A-Type is almost "American" enough sounding but still have a noticeable Celestion "body" in its sound. I quite like it. I am so grateful for these videos though. I "hit the amp lottery" with my Pro Junior, but looking the issues its stablemates have, I am hesitant to roll that dice again. I am not anti-Fender, I am just wary of their new amps.

[@DanielBobke]

I have presented two well-recommended amp techs in the SoCal area with a list of preventative items for a Hot Rod Deville ML - both said I was nuts and refused the work! I can't seem to find anyone who thinks this is worthwhile to do. Is the ML version (made in 2019) different somehow?

[@PsionicAudio]

The Landau is the same as far as what fails.

[@DanielBobke]

@@PsionicAudio I don't get why I can't find a tech to do this work... I guess I will keep looking.

[@electricurinal]

@@DanielBobke I think that sometimes, authorized Fender repair people can get in trouble for modifying Fender circuits. An authorized Fender tech I knew told me that they frown upon it, and you can lose your Fender affiliation if you do certain things. Might try a non-Fender-paid person.

[@DanielBobke]

@@electricurinal I am not even asking them to modify a circuit - just replace parts. At least one of the techs I reached out to was not a factory authorized repair center for anyone. The other one may be Fender authorized - not sure. I did find another KZbinr amp tech who is in the general region of where I live, but it is a hike to get the amp to where they are. I will keep looking.

[@MOAB-UT]

They likely think you are a paranoid and will be a difficult customer. I don't think you are. I think it's smart.

[@johnwilliamson467]

R74 is up off the board with sleeves yet the other heat producing failure points are not . This is an odd half way done approach . Zenors do come with crimped legs . IC caps are the accounting department reducing the quality of the product . Cost controls are important to stay in business however the cost between these and much better cap in production sized buys are not that much .Well the ba4560 yet again an obsolete IC yet the ne5532 is still used with better slew rate and at 50 some cents per chip made by a few different companies . I do think that odd chips where chosen to add to the oh ah of the fan boys.

[@smartlevel1450]

The C45 capacitor of my Hot Rod Deville (the one that is on top of C40 and C41) is liking. Please, do you have any idea of what kind of fail will or should manifest?

[@PsionicAudio]

Yeah it will screw up channel changing.

[@smartlevel1450]

@@PsionicAudio Thanks so much! Its a relief to know since I use just the clean channel

[@Noumenon4Idolatry]

Too bad. I live the clean tone on this.

[@J.C...]

Hey Lyle. I asked you this before and I apologize if youve answered already. Are you an authorized Fender repair shop? Thanks.

[@PsionicAudio]

No, I’ve declined that and a few other companies. They don’t pay well and always want fast and cheap, which leaves out the option of good.

[@J.C...]

@@PsionicAudio Makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[@Mark70609]

Don’t you think 60mA (30mA per valve) is a very cool bias measurement.

[@Idontlikethisever]

Why they don’t put a vent to cool it down into these amps?? Would that makes sense or is that not helping? I just wonder

[@PsionicAudio]

A vent wouldn’t help. The existing air inside the cab/chassis would be enough - IF there was an air gap between hot components and the board.

[@Idontlikethisever]

@@PsionicAudio oh I see. thanks

[@williamknell864]

Is the "revision" anything more than the black control panel?

[@PsionicAudio]

Nope

[@elbowjames7625]

Lyle, I just have never gotten comfortable with all those push-on connectors in Fender amps these days. Is it just paranoia on my part? Are those connectors a weak spot or the source of many problems? Or do you find that they are stable and trustworthy?

[@darwinsaye]

You mean those ribbon wire ones? Those have been used in synthesizers and other electric keyboards since the 70s so I think they’ve proven themselves. What bugs me is tube sockets mounted directly on circuit boards, control potentiometers mounted directly to the boards, those cheap modern plastic input jacks mounted directly to boards… Anything you routinely manipulate, crank, jiggle, or pull on. Want to make shit not last? Cause that’s how you make shit not last.

[@elbowjames7625]

@@darwinsaye No I mean the spade lug connectors like auto wiring. I do not trust them, they depend on a friction interference fit and I don't see how they can be very resistant to humidity, corrosion or oxide buildup. They go on fast but it seems to me like a cross-your-fingers-and-knock-wood proposition.

[@jonnyz5772]

@@elbowjames7625they are fine - if you use the amp daily and it goes through many hot cold cycles just may proactively remove and re-install every couple of years . you can also very carefully add a tiny bit more crimp to the female one however i would only do that if it was obvious one of them was looser than the others

[@zachtheguitarmaniac]

I wonder how the Hot Rod Michael Landau version holds up in comparison?

[@PsionicAudio]

Same flaws.

[@christopherventer6391]

So...why DON'T they mount those resistors and diodes with airflow? It probably wouldn't even add any cost to the process...

[@musicrepairs]

No improvement with the 470ohm 5 watt resistors. They cook the board and damage tracks. The only way to repair these is to take them of the board. I’ve done so many I’ve lost count

[@motokev2727]

I've got a fender bassbreaker 007 head that I bought new. I've tried a few new ones, they all have an annoying hum. Anyway to get rid of that hum. It's a single ended amp.

[@zbaby82]

This is an example of why I won't buy a Fender amp.

[@SwedishMeattball]

some of greatest amps are fender

[@watkinscopicat]

seems like the only thing they actually improved was the speaker

[@jameswhite1450]

How do you feel about the Fromel kits for the Hot Rod Deluxe?

[@PsionicAudio]

They're great. People put them in and F up the pads and traces and then they grudgingly bring them to a tech to fix, so they generate a lot of income for guys like me. Seriously, orange drops don't physically fit these amps. See my preventative maintenance on the HRD video for more info on this. It's not that Fromel's ideas are bad, but the execution is usually terrible. PS increasing the first filter cap to 100f doesn't increase low end as forumites claim. That's another spot that leads to bad traces and gobs of hot glue.

[@jameswhite1450]

@@PsionicAudio I’ll look up your other video. I hadn’t planned on doing the job myself but more taking the kit to a tech as a “group” parts to replace etc. That was my thinking.

[@PsionicAudio]

A good tech won't want any parts provided by Fromel. Just a heads up.

[@jameswhite1450]

@@PsionicAudio ok, thanks man.

[@DeadKoby]

I get enough of these into my shop for repair... same crap over and over again. The accountants got into the manufacturing process. Had they opted to use Stand-Off resistors for the big droppers... the kind with REAL legs....... it would have made a world of difference... The board itself has WIMPY traces... good grief.

[@dwaynemullett9462]

Not to knock your expertise but you seem to say always always always fail. And every other place I've looked about this amp and previous models I hear maybe one out of every hundred has issues. Some guys say they've drove around with theirs in their trunk of their car for 5 years anywhere between below zero to 100° temperatures and they haven't had a single issue or Tube replacement in that entire time.

[@PsionicAudio]

By the time owners notice a problem the board has burned. Right before critical failure it still works so they think they don’t have a problem. But all the while the low voltage supply is cooking their board/traces. It’s not me. It’s Ohm and Kelvin.

[@dwaynemullett9462]

@PsionicAudio I wish I could afford hand-wired versions of these amps. I'm actually thinking about purchasing one of the Blues Deluxe amplifiers. I think I like the tone of that better than the Hot Rod Deluxe especially for blues. I've seen guys actually put silicone over top of these to keep them from heating up so much I don't know how well it works. I actually had one of those black star studio 10 6 L6 versions. that amplifier never let me down . I'm thinking about getting something a little louder in case I want a gig with it.

[@glenndavis6793]

Work and save all that money for amp not so reliable you think they were to fix the problem by now

[@davidward2209]

Why do peeps continue to buy flawed Fender Tube Amps which continue to fail b/c of low quality components, poor assembly practices, and poor designs? I am in the market for a tube amp but refuse to buy known flawed Fender products. An enterprising lawyer needs to initiate class action legal charges against Fender for continuing to market known garbage amps which will fail after some usage.

[@capitanvonchickenpants8492]

Overpriced junk

[@d-rosejames4553]

you poor mate? 😂this is already a cheap amp. Try Two Rock Amp. 😂

[@SwedishMeattball]

​@@d-rosejames45531200 isnt a cheap amp

[@TheJudy79]

Yes it better a lot better than previous versions

[@SwedishMeattball]

they have flaws but the latest 1 sounds good better distortion better speaker they are super loud

[@KidAgainHobbies]

you cant go by what someone says on youtube. there is nothing wrong with these amps other than they are too expensive.