Ceriatone 2204 | Part 1 : Evaluation & Strange Issues

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[@maxpeck4154]

"There's never a reason to use a flathead screw..." Amen. That needed to be said.

[@tellusthetruthmedia5525]

For the price of those amps the quality of the build looks very very good ... nice tips

[@axessmario2052]

Thoroughly enjoyed this one Lyle, cheers!

[@brianaaland5263]

I love this one, can't wait to see what you change as you do a good job explaining it for people who know just enough to follow along.

[@chadvitale1567]

What a pro. Love the videos.

[@NikolausBrocke]

Excellent clean sound. I can tell it already from the seconds you play it.

[@maxvockner]

Great video! Nice to see Nik get some wiring and lead dress credit. This makes me question my last build where I took a ground out of some Romax wire to use as a buss bar. I preemptively sanded, heated the crap out of the wire and tinned the hell out of it to avoid this problem. I wondered at the time about a micro bus solution. Good to know that’s acceptable and likely better.

[@stevieraysantana6159]

Hey Lyle , what a way to make the amp a lot better ! And the ground problem with the bus bar was pretty much jaw dropping for me , the high gain stuff always needs a very good chassis ground . Keep on kicking ass ! This channel is fucking great !!! I own a ceriatone hrm model and all the lead dress and electronics are on par . It’s a very good clone of something ( d ‘ style , Marshall ) . I love it .

[@Geopholus]

Yes I was looking at the ground and deciding before You got into it that it wasn't the greatest grounding scheme, several local chassis grounds from the bus wire from Power supply end back down toward the preamp end, tend to squelch the possibility of osc at high frequencies. I use a 350 watt gun for chassis grounds, or a propane torch!

[@edwardhannigan6324]

Great video Lyle, and cool fix getting rid of that noise..Amazing how you find this stuff..Learning still..Ed..uk..😀

[@scottrojko715]

Lyle, I am blown away every time I see what goes into these amplifiers, but more so the knowledge that you have gained from all the years of working with these different types of circuits. I would love to send you what I have and just let me know what you think ? Thanks

[@robertdyer8517]

Great video i was surprised to see the build quality

[@Auen73]

Excellent mods & fix.........

[@steveclark9370]

I like your honesty and candidness. I'm sure you can find something wrong with every manufacturer of amps (or anything else for that matter) but some of the repair people I used to watch liked to shit on every amp...except there he sit in his Kentucky basement not being Randall Smith, Dave Freidman, George Metropolis, etc...

[@fiddlix]

Nice is an understatement.

[@middle_pickup]

Ceriatone amps are cool. A friend has a Matchless chieftain clone of theirs. Sounds quite good. If I found one, I'd buy it.

[@MADRE-GUY]

Wanted to thank you .. I’m really enjoying your critique of different amps and your ability to troubleshoot using your past experiences . 👍👍 I thought your feedback on the Suhr Hombre was very interesting and informative.. ( as 10 years ago I’d sold my favorite amp an original 6G3 as times were tough ~ medical $$$) I’ve looked for an affordable kit built 6G3 combo but nothing was available locally that was within my limited budget..well I’ve recently saved enough to purchase a mint preowned Suhr Hombre head & cab.. at 1/2 retail price 19:44 as a pseudo replacement) .. now saving for a 1X12 combo cabinet to drop the chassis in....

[@AHGrayLensman]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (...or possibly just ~10 years ago in Knoxville...), I had Ceriatone build me a 2204 copy on their Jubilee chassis with "channel switching" (taking the V1B cold clipper stage out of the signal path, which turned out to be less useful than it seemed on paper) and a switchable SIR #34 mod. It was probably the best sounding Marshall-oid amp that I've been in the same room with, and I regularly want to kick myself for selling it.

[@qua7771]

That sounds like an amazing, expensive, and well constructed amp to have owned. Lately, I've been trying to learn about the SIR #3X circuits. There seems to be a lot of disagreement in discussions as to what schematic is correct. Builders seem to have their own version, so I guess I will keep on researching.

[@AHGrayLensman]

@@qua7771 It wasn't really all that expensive, honestly -- I think Nik charged me what was the going rate for his 50W Jubilee head at the time. (I'm not sure if he could still do that with their current order volumes, though. I get the impression that they're a *LOT* busier now than they used to be ~10 years ago.)

[@qua7771]

@@AHGrayLensman I just purchased a Ceritone King Kong. Essentially a two channel plexi/ hot rodded plexi amp. It has a bunch of switches for various tone shaping features. It sounds amazing. Now I know what you meant in your first comment.

[@adamscottv]

That's a nice sounding amp. Good video.

[@majortwang6211]

Good detective work🎯

[@VIDS2013]

I always use tinned wire for bus wire if I need it. Works great, never had a problem.

[@stevelark9840]

What mysterious transformers. The rest of the build quiality and components look great, so I'm intreged about the iron. Great walkthrough and once again, I've learned something from your video... this time around oscillation trouble shooting and the 2204 grounding scheme, so I thank you, Lyle.

[@alanlyons1195]

Lyle says "The fit and finish on them feel pretty cheap" ! LOL! Personally, I could care less about the finish, they SOUND GREAT!!! According to the Ceriatone web site: "The 2204 uses our specially designed, custom transformers for superior reliability, frequency response, and feel."

[@clintn6677]

I've had a ceriatone 2204 that had classictone iron and I've owned a 2204 from them that was completely built. The Ceriatone iron sounded and performed every bit as well with the classictone. In fact the ceriatone iron was heavier and stayed cool for the most part.

[@johnwilliamson467]

It better if you are tuning it for the customer. It about customer good or bad it better since the customer likes the changes. Nice tuning. Had very good luck with eutectic solder not cheap but work well cheap copper bus wire looks like house wiring. Very nice fix.

[@danielsaturnino5715]

Looks better to me. Nice.

[@erichemard7066]

Had the same issue with a ceriatone 2204 100w. Major oscillation at 8 on the gain. My fluke 87 kept showing 0.5 ohms but I wasn’t believing it. I used my gator clips to verify proper ground. Removed the buss wire and ran a twisted 22ga across the pots and boom oscillation was gone. If it wasn’t for the fact that I picked up the amp on the cheap I would’ve shit canned the thing. Replaced the xfmrs for mercury magnetics and changed a few resistor values….freaking amp is now worth the money I got in it.

[@phillamoore157]

I purchased a Yeti 50 from them just over a year ago, and it showed up DOA. Apparently a tube issue, although once replaced it still sounded anemic. The idea of taking a brand new amp to a tech to troubleshoot, what may very well have been another tube, put a VERY bad taste in my mouth. Especially, after having waited close to 11mo for it. At the end of the day, Nik is a very good man, and very honest, when there’s a problem. But, he’s obviously no longer involved in the QC process. Frankly, I think the company grew beyond his control on a number of levels (how many times have we seen that happen). Although, usually that stuff only happens once the company has been sold. But, I digress… A P-2-P amp at this price, that sound this good, is astonishing, given today’s $4K-$5K amps. In my case, this wasn’t a case where the amp was beat-up during shipping. It was a case of it leaving the factory in that condition (which Nik apologized for). I’m happy for the guys that dodged that kind of bullet with Ceriatone, and wound up with a great amp at a really good price. For those that didn’t…I feel your pain. The good news is that due to the wait times, these hold their value very well. Mine sold instantly, and I was able to get my money back.

[@clownhands]

Damn, that’s a fine-looking internal build.

[@russellesimonetta3835]

I've been watching your channel since about 1000 subs. When I saw the copper ground bus I thought ,,,hmmmm, noisey?? I thought about your great, good enough and bad ground schemes. Dedicated stage chassis grounds are coming !!

[@Soloist1983]

Knew that bus bar was coming out right when I saw it. Btw, that distortion channel sounds fantastic, at least through my speakers here

[@weschilton]

I think I need to take a look at one of these, really impressive!

[@skeeterbuck1355]

WOW! Good find Lyle. Wouldn't have thought that Ceritone would have done such a nice build, yet the ground buss solder joints were bad.

[@alanlyons1195]

1. Why would Lyle even recommend (to his customer) modding a Ceriatone 2204, when they could choose one of the many other Ceriatone models which already offer more gain than the Ceriatone 2204 model? 2. Lyle is criticizing a USED amp that someone has obviously been inside before! 3. Nic makes a great product and "modding" his product is a shame. 4. Ceriatone not only sells amps, but they also sell unassembled kits! Notice its NOT autographed by NIC? This amp could have started as a pile of parts for all we know. VERY well done regardless! 5. The bias trim pot that scares Lyle...It is inside the shell! Screwdriver required! Much safer than an external location if Lyle is scared about someone unknowingly adjusting!

[@luthiervandros]

Nik does good work. Nice job debugging that mod 🤜🏼🤛🏼

[@KB_Joys]

Every one of the jcm 800 style amps I've built, each seemed to have their own little weird issues. Ive built all sorts of different style amps, but the 800's yeah, lol Thanks for the video

[@merseybeat1963]

Sounds good

[@audiomsg]

Regarding those filter caps, I've just had a Ceriatone TMB 36 Watt on my bench, and the issue was 1 section of the multi-section can cap. A JJ, quite new, and now totally open. Nice big hum.

[@PsionicAudio]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of JJ caps. Way too many bad ones.

[@patrickstover8766]

I laughed aloud at the screwdriver bias adjustment comment, "where you have to take the time to get a screwdriver... gives you enough time to think, should I be turning this?"

[@leiferickson3183]

Haha! Bias adjustment on the outside of the amp. I once set up an am for a friend who had one of these on his amp. I was talking with him about everything I worked on with the chassis out of the amp on the table. The first thing he asked when he saw the chassis was "What is that control?" I told him that it was the bias control and then FIRMLY told him to never ever touch it because the bias will need to be reset if it moves. I even put a label on it that said "BIAS! DO NOT TOUCH!". As we discussed the amp about 5 mintes later he absentmindedly started turning the control! I started laughing and he didnt know why - I said "You were turning the bias control just now" - he didnt even realize it. No big deal and I showed him how to adjust the bias when I reset it. Controls like that are irresistible to fingers. It was even on top where you would normally need to take the back cover off to get to it, but still I wholeheartedly agree that a screwdriver adjustment helps - or at least a locking nut version - which are hard to come by without a custom order.

[@qua7771]

That control is near tubes, where anyone who swapping them could unintentionally bump it. Every one I have seen is too hard, or to easy to access. You would think manufacturers would have established a better means over the years.

[@thebostonguitarist7886]

Have you looked into the Wangs 2204 Hand wired Chinese made amps? Thoughts on the quality? They're even less money than the Ceriatone and even more of a "carbon copy" of the Marshall master volume tone. Thank! Love the content.

[@samnewcomb8623]

I'm not a fan of the solid ground bus, and this is one of the reasons. The multi-star scheme you replaced it with is superior.

[@Ireland831]

LOL...pentode/triode.....sounds good....sounds bad. Great vids. I love them.

[@paulwillett7115]

have a yeti 50 that had great tones, but the volume dropped off and just has some light sounding fuzz. Has the same buffered effects loop as the amp you displayed. The tubes checked good, voltage levels are good, thinking issues with the effects loop......Who knows :) I contacted Nik from that company - he is very nice and good to talk to and help.

[@jasonstone1046]

Looks like a nice little amp... looks like.

[@Starcrunch72]

Jeepers, from my recliner that looked like a piece of coat hanger rather than copper--looked rather oxidized as well.

[@historiclp4577]

I just built a ceriatone, Plexi 101 all access 100 watt.I just turned it on today and all the tubes light up but i get no bias reading, and the a loud hum from the speaker when the amp comes out of standby, would you be able to fix it

[@goodun2974]

At 14:00....do you normally wear glasses, Lyle, or are those just reading glasses for closeup work? I'd be lost without my magnifying Opti-Visors for soldering and close-up assembly....

[@jimbeaux4988]

Weird ground problem. Was the wire just too thick? I always thought bigger would be better.

[@97warlock]

do you think it could be because these amps are "taking off" in sales & overloading the workers is why something like this could happen,maybe the QC isnt being heldup?

[@HiHello-ku1fl]

Have you worked on one of those little studio JCM 800's yet? The 20 watt ones but they still have EL34's. I hear sonic drive studios comparing a bunch of amps and I was impressed with the 20 watt studio JCM 800. Made in England and not too much...maybe around 1200.

[@clintn6677]

There is a company called V2 Amplification from Canada and I had their Caldera for awhile which was 20 watts with EL34's. Great amp and really versatile. I tried the Marshall Studio but if I had to do it over and had $1200 I would get another Caldera. Check them out.

[@analogblues9606]

Sounds good! What speakers/speaker are you using? Thanks

[@toasteroverdrive1097]

That bus wire seems like a good idea but its not. Creates a ground loop. Best is to use the "Larry" grounding scheme. Also I ground the inputs at the first triode which have its own ground. Nice vid.

[@PsionicAudio]

Notice what I did. Somewhere, Larry is smiling.

[@tedmich]

Nice one, aren't 2 combined equal gauge wires equivalent to the component AWG minus 3 ? So 2 x 20AWG = 17AWG? Thats what I always thought!

[@bobbihomo2517]

Their build quality is exceptional as are the tubes and components good ....but the transformers (hugely impacts tone) and "Holy Grail" rebadged caps are all questionable. Likewise, as you had issue...the bus bar was a problem. The FX Loop with the incorrect cap size and not sitting flush and I've had some that came across my bench and the switches are cheap (case in point, accidentally dropped a tool and hit the switch and the plastic/phenolic material SHATTERED)!

[@incubism]

The quality of my ceriatone has really turned me off the big name brands for what they sell at higher prices.

[@Mr.Owl9]

Thank You for your channel, I was wondering if you could tell me what your workbench cover is called and where I might purchase one , I've checked all my local hardware stores ,they are clueless , craft stores, clueless, even electronics stores don't know?

[@PsionicAudio]

It's a self-healing cutting mat.

[@johnneider6159]

If I'm not mistaken Nik, the owner of Ceriatone mentioned the transformers are coming from Singapore

[@alanlyons1195]

From his web site: "the 2204 uses our specially designed, custom transformers for superior reliability, frequency response, and feel"

[@chillpillology]

so singapore then? also, if he designed that bus bar what is that supposed to make me think about the xformer?

[@giarebig474]

maybe just a simple ground loop? That happens if there are different ground-"niveaus" or potentials (my English is not that perfect) appear. Result is very often oscillation... - that easy! The pots are already grounded to the chassis and then you had a second ground loop over the big wire...

[@blazelarson1427]

Shouldn’t the xformers be mounted away from each other? That’s not close together. Frugal amps made me a 2204 clone about 10 years ago. Sounds like a plexi. It’s been very reliable,I’m not complaining one bit

[@roberthurless4615]

The F/X loop board looks like the Metroamp design.

[@IamtheFerryMan]

Metro Zero Loss. I have one in my JTM45 clone. Great loop.

[@lespaul667]

Why is it, that every single clone I try doesn’t even come close to an early 1980’s 2204? Never as mean, tight or as round and gainy. It’s a shame, I’ve had around 4 of these Ceriatones and they don’t have it. Also, the B+ voltage is over 100 Volts less at like 450 on a 2204 with Drakes.

[@waynegram8907]

Why does very low capacitance shield cable causes microphonic issues? Was the buss wire issue to thick of size or had a coating on it that was preventing a good solder connection?

[@PsionicAudio]

I don't know why, but it's a real thing. The buss wire was both very thick and had an enamel coating.

[@waynegram8907]

@@PsionicAudio The enamel coating seems to be preventing a good connection. I didn't know you put separate ground lugs for each front panel pot for the ground lugs to the chassis.

[@robertbarnes9745]

Another " gronk" free amp!

[@fletches4084]

Coherent oxide layer says, "Nothing gets through me!".

[@TheStimpy60]

A shiny, red, candy like button. 😆 It’s the history eraser button you fool ! I knew you had the same twisted sense of humor when you referenced Monty Python, but obscure Ren and Stimpy takes it somewhere else entirely.

[@voxpathfinder15r]

Completely irrelevant question, but just curious have you ever come across those fender bassbreaker amplifiers in your business? Do you tell those customers to go bounce - or do you embrace the job? Seems like an amp that is too cost prohibitive to take apart, maybe there is a trick to them everyone is overlooking?

[@PsionicAudio]

Those are hot garbage. A real repair would quickly exceed the value of the "amp." Hard pass.

[@voxpathfinder15r]

@@PsionicAudio ok, you reaffirmed my opinion on this amp. Too bad, because I really like it’s tones.

[@1markooo99]

Hello Enjoy your videos very much. I did send an email with a question and no reply at all???

[@salahbaker4089]

Coated Buss bar?

[@balijukka9963]

A bus ground in a high gain amp is asking for trouble. Especially in this kind of circuit where the tone stage signal is in/phase with pre volume signal. You can clearly see that all the currents are going via the same wire to the pre amp power supply node. Simply bad design, which is shame, as otherwise the workmanship and quality looks very good. Probably would have even been cheaper to wire the pots directly to relevant stage ground node, than to assemble a clumsy ground bus. Only reason I can see for the use of a bus is that it allows assembling all the pots in to the bus and then the whole lot to the chassis. You may save half a minute of assembly time.

[@fiddlix]

Grounding definitely separates the men from the boys.

[@geezberry8889]

i'd replace that pentode triode switch with a depth pot

[@digthisbigcrux]

Could that original bus bar been oxidized and could that have caused the isssue?

[@PsionicAudio]

If so, it oxidized within the "solder joints." Which kind of proves one of my points - these were never good connections to begin with because that huge wire is very hard to solder to properly.

[@digthisbigcrux]

@@PsionicAudio absolutely. I deal with grounding in a different sense for my job. When we ground telecom racks we have to use a scouring pad on the ground bar before we make connections. The way the wire looked when you pulled it out reminded me of the way a dirty ground bar looks on a telecom rack.

[@Pilotltd]

A bit of paste or liquid flux would have fixed those joints to the copper..

[@PsionicAudio]

Aside from flux spattering into the pot openings, a buss ground isn't optimal for a Marshall amp anyway. Your point is valid and I did consider it.

[@Pilotltd]

@@PsionicAudio Original Marshal JTM 45's used a tinned bus wire. Repaired a few over the years here in UK.

[@antonix_81]

wouldn't be better to secure the buss to the turrets? isn't it bad to put weight on pots pins?

[@PsionicAudio]

Best not to use a buss wire. But the original implementation didn't stress the pots.

[@antonix_81]

@@PsionicAudio yeh your solution,with dedicated grounds ,is the best 👍🏻

[@ghostfacegrillla6272]

Here's some frustrating sh#t 😂😂😂

[@paulanderson771]

Why were you saying that Holy Grail capacitor is not-a-thing and I was able to google search and find one instantly? It's a 10 dollar cap.

[@PsionicAudio]

Because it is an off the shelf cap that gets a different plastic covering and the price goes from $2 to $10.

[@thesoundpurist]

wait did you say JJ not great? I just ordered a quartet

[@thesoundpurist]

John Suhr swears by them afaik

[@robertb8539]

Can I ask why you think the half power mode sounds bad?

[@PsionicAudio]

Triode mode always sounds mushy. It's not Ceriatone, it's every implementation of the idea.

[@robertb8539]

@@PsionicAudio Thanks for the quick reply. I have this exact amp and I really love it. To me the half power mode sounds a little softer. More sag I guess. Not bad, just different. Great for blues! Very versatile amp. Love your videos!

[@NitroModelsAndComics]

The Jolly, candy like button!

[@AHGrayLensman]

I mean, who puts an unlabeled History Eraser button in a guitar amp?

[@NitroModelsAndComics]

@@AHGrayLensman It could be considered "Space Madness".

[@rasjase1]

I didn't realize ceriatone were turret board construction......I guess I just assumed they were pcbs........do they make anything original? Seems like they are all a clone of something

[@aquilarossa5191]

Check their website. They began as kits for DIY types who wanted to build clones, kind of like Mojotone do etc. They do clones, but also do their own takes on combinations of all the Marshall mods, plus lots of other stuff like Dumble or Hiwatt etc. They build custom order where the buyer can have all the mods they need etc. They do the same thing Friedman does taking the classic Marshall circuits and adding his versions of things like Jose mods etc (A BE100 is just his fav Marshall mods in one amp). The difference is that Friedman amps are mostly PCB with not much hand soldering, while Ceriatone is turrets and all hand soldered. Which is best depends on implementation and ironing out bugs I think. PCB can be more consistent once the bugs are ironed out perhaps (Turret builds hand soldered depend on the soldering person to get it right every time etc -- which is impossible, so the QC has their work cut out for them looking for bad joints etc). Speaking of clones, Ceriatone make one of the most highly regarded Klon clones. None of my fav players used one, but I do wonder what the hype is, so may get one. They also do this thing called All Access Plexi. It is every Plexi circuit in one amp, so you can go from early Hendrix, to EVH '68, thru to the most aggressive early 70s ones. That's the one they all rave about on their social media groups etc. They are very popular in Aussie and a bit here in NZ too. Ceriatone home base is closer to us than the UK or USA and in the same time zone for support (Nik is famous for his support. He answers every question in comments and emails etc).

[@rwdplz1]

Wire hangers don't make the best bus bars.

[@johnmiller9219]

Nik? Thoughts?..

[@alanlyons1195]

I cant wait for Nics reply! So much wrong with this video! 1. Why even recommend (to your customer) modding a Ceriatone 2204, when you could choose one of the many other Ceriatone models which already offer more gain than his 2204 model? 2. Criticizing a USED amp that someone has obviously been inside before! 3. Nic makes a great product and "modding" his product is a shame. 4. Ceriatone not only sells amps, but they also sell unassembled kits! Notice its NOT autographed by NIC? This amp could have started as a pile of parts for all we know. VERY well done regardless! 5. The bias trim pot that scares Lyle...It is inside the shell! Screwdriver required! Much safer than an external location if your scared about someone unknowingly adjusting!

[@retread1083]

I was certain you'd point out the pointlessness of the slotted screws and the bias pot with the protruding shaft. As usual, you did not disappoint.

[@wonderbars36]

Long time ago I remember finding that company's rather sketchy looking site. Was tempted to buy one of their ODS clones. Now after building several home made amps, and after seeing this video...the build quality of these is....yeah. Definitely wouldn't pay what they ask lol. Screw. That. Way better off cloning one yourself. Slotted screws is just ridiculous to have on something like this.

[@breakfastbuddy5]

this is just a noncense video , we all know that ceriatone delivers ,

[@chillpillology]

well, at least you can rule out a career in public relations. and stay away from the paint chips.

[@RozsaAmplificationLLC]

Yeah, you hit everything on the head! The manual construction is some of the best. The tubes seem very good and in the preamp. However, the transformers are questionable quality. Likewise, you question the caps as rebadged. There is some question of the buss bar. From my experience, I've been in and played 6-8 Ceriatone's and many different amps...Plexi, 2204, King Kong, Chupacabra....and could not for the life of me get one to sound good or as good as I would expect!! The only thing I can point my finger on is the transformers. They always run at lower voltages also (maybe because if they designed them to run say at 480 or 540VDC, they'd explode!?!?? The switches seem to be crap in my experience. Have dropped by accident the wooden handle of a screwdriver and hit the Power or Standby switch and the plastic is very brittle and switch exploded and needed complete replacement. I believe I had an issue with a small switch also and shaft broke off the end! I'm uncertain of the caps as they are like you said rebadged. The rest of the components appears good, Vishay, Dale, etc. loose component. The buss bar is thick and appears copper, but color seems off so wonder if just not a good quality and high copper content so doesn't wick well and why poor connection? In the end, sounded ok or good, but not great or expected and not where a real Marshall would sound, soo I think you're limited to the transformer set, which is the largest chunk of money and how they may be keeping pricing down. I try to steer people away do all of the above and likewise, issues you had...but you know people...they are always on the cheap, but don't understand...When you BUY cheap....you GOT cheap!!! Soo, you get what you pay for.

[@daniwardani8877]

Nothing wrong with that Caps,, or must be american made and you say thats the best? 😁😁😁