Much Less Meh | Fender '64 Custom Hand Wired Deluxe Reverb Pt 2

[@fredlepan72]

I have one at the moment at home and what I can say is that it sounds wonderful without modification. the tremolo is incredible, the reverb is very usable and progressive. the normal channel is great.

[@kenster865]

I too have one and it sounds damn good in every respect. I suspect that every now and then, one that has issues gets by their QA folks and gets shipped off. I'm assuming Fender has quality inspectors checking what's coming off their assy. lines and looking at each one before it's considered complete.

[@TheOdizeo]

I own one and it is pretty noisy. Noisier than my 1968 AS763 Twin Reverb... I also had a couple of issues when it first arrived it didn't work. had to send it back to the shop I bought it from (Brisbane). funny thing is my twin cost me less than half of what I payed for the 64 DR. Also the pots crack a lot... there's DC leakage for sure... but I haven't had the time yet to try and fix it... or the energy. the whole thing is rather disappointing. I didn't know any better, and Fender saw me coming.. I agree 110% with Lyle on this one. I absolutely feel like I got screwed over, and because I live in Australia, HA! who cares! not Fender!

[@User57186-y]

@@TheOdizeofender AUS cares bigtime. If you have those issues and it’s in warranty call/email them and they will sort it out. -someone who cares

[@richpesce]

I don't understand how a company like Fender doesn't have a person like Lyle guiding them through making these amp designs.

[@zsebora]

They most probably have, they just do not listen to him, because of costs:)

[@zefferan0]

@@zsebora100% agree. I believe same happens in every big company these days. Certainly it is present in mine. Decision makers are not competent enough for the roles they hold but they’re aggressive enough to get those positions in firm. Sad and frustrating 🤷‍♂️

[@berniepruim7730]

The people in the offices do not listen to the people on the floor.

[@Robstafarian]

You seem to have a very different view of Fender than I have.

[@ToddRichmond]

products are typically built to a price point, not a quality point.

[@ourlifeinwyoming4654]

Agree completely. For the price, the amount of work needed to make it perform as advertised is pathetic.

[@TheOdizeo]

Agreed

[@samuelhatman8995]

At work, I described your work to a "professional" guitarist, he owns one of these amps from back then. I gave him the link to your channel. If I could drive my Fender down your way.... Your opinion would always be taken as "the" way. Like the work Ted Woodford produces, yours is rare and sets a standard we all wish to access locally. Mighty nice Lyle!

[@christophersambuco9414]

Bias wiggle trem is an improvement feature to me. I never cared for tremolo until I tried a Princeton

[@richardlynch5632]

If I was to get a new/used tube amp...I would have Lyle bring it up to it's most reliable and best sounding as it can be. Hats off to a master of his craft.😎👍👍

[@giulioluzzardi7632]

That is the only "New Fender" that actually sounds like a really good "Old Fender" amp, even better in fact since you gave it your "Once-over"! We don't really need to hear any-one else play it cos we can dig it just fine now!

[@PittmanCustomGuitars]

You sir are a master at your craft! You are very generous to share the wealth of knowledge that you possess. Keep up the good work!

[@jancreighton]

but that's just..... your opinion man :)

[@Gear-Play-Trade-dm5no]

@@jancreighton An about 47,600 other ppl ... duh 🤣

[@PittmanCustomGuitars]

@@jancreighton 😅😅😅

[@hekakain4108]

This is one Fender amp I will not be buying along with any other Fender amp unless it is an original one...great work Lyle.

[@crystallineanthology595]

Excellent work Psionic. WTH Fender Custom Shop. Disappointing to say the least

[@npet6842]

This is USD 2700 plus sales tax in Australia . I can get a damn good secondhand Matchless DC30 or Chieftain 212 for less . Your tutorials are marvelous . I'm very impressed with your approach .

[@omarmolina207]

That 220k/220k voltage divider might be dumping too much signal. The quickest path to AC ground at that point on the traditional circuit is through the normal channel mix resistor, the 0.047uF coupling cap, and the 100k plate resistor for V1B. This ignores the triode, which is the case with V1 pulled anyway. A 330k in series with a 0.047 in place of the added 220k should mimic the behavior more closely since the cap gives it a frequency dependency--but is likely large enough to mostly ignore. The added 220k is throwing away ~10% more gain than it should.

[@PsionicAudio]

I did a big spice model of this a while back, but I was modeling V1 with its triode. I can't find it now, but IIRC it suggested 280K was pretty much the ticket, so 270K closest standard. In practice I find 220K-330K all gives good results. Bear in mind the increased B+ with V1 pulled. so headroom increases a bit - it's kind of a subjective choice within that range. I want you to know I'm not arguing with you or saying you're wrong - this stuff is fun to think about.

[@sadlsore]

Great videos, Lyle! Thanks for posting all of these; they are so informative! I bought a used ‘ 65 Deluxe Reverb re-issue; it sounded great when I bought it. I had my local amp tech convert the app to hand wired and it sound 10 times better, and all in the cost of the amp + upgrade to HW was about a third less expensive or half as expensive as buying the ‘64 handwired, which, obviously, as Lyle has shown, is still a mess.

[@TheMoodyLoners]

Your careful work has paid off nicely. The sound now is quite a welcome contrast to what it was from the factory.

[@seanheilferty2998]

Sounds unbelievable after your hard labour. Thanks for sharing ❤

[@jameswhite5806]

Fender should use this as a training video for their design engineers and production team.

[@giulioluzzardi7632]

They should "invite" all expenses paid all year around any techs or students that want to learn how to maintain Fender amps "World-wide" and Lyle should be the "Shaman". Man.

[@RPSartre01]

The chime sounds so darn good. And the reverb is lush. Critics need to calm down - this amp is much better sounding than the other so-called boutique amps!

[@giulioluzzardi7632]

It's the best 1x12 you can buy off the shelf, period.

[@maxwhitten8376]

If it's working....

[@krisharrop3764]

Would you add the 220k resistor even if you did not disable the normal channel?

[@alexanderbechtold8208]

I did together with rewiring of the V3 socket the with very positive effect on hiss and noise floor. Anything else is unchanged to date.

[@MikeM-Colorado]

Sounds great…now. Thanks for the reverb tube wiring tip!

[@victorbeebe8372]

Aloha and Mahalo Lyle. Thanks for going through the layout and explaining the differences and short comings.

[@alexanderbechtold8208]

Thanks you so much for this! I added the 220k and rewired the V3 socket (normal channel is still active). Now I love my new Custom Deluxe Rev. with significantly reduced hiss and noise floor. Only thing I wonder is, what might be the altered mix resistors in the preamp you are talking about where the additional 220k is not needed. Can you please explaine a bit on that? Or is it in the clip and I oversaw that?

[@stringlocker]

What's the percentage of bitterness compared to the printed circuit board reissues. Is it worth the extra cost. And can you get the PCB to sound as good

[@Sheegog1972]

I’ve owned this amp since they first came out. Never been happier with my tone nor have I gotten more compliments on my tone in 35+ years of gigging. Fender did something right.

[@monstermax22]

A great and very infirmative video, thank you for this. Can't help but be disappointed, giving the billing the amp was given and it's price point. That being said. I've just swtiched mine on and sure, with the reverb turned all the way up, there is more 'urgent' hum, but no feedback, nothing actually - thats also on max volume. I kept the volume anad tone controls maxed with the reverb down the level I'd use it at and I all I had was a distant hum and the usual hiss. OK, its nowhere near Two-Rock quiet, where you'd think it's on standy until you hit the strings. I bought the '64 Deluxe new last year and gigged the amp many times now and its been fine. Maybe I've got a good one as it sounds fantastic, but its evident from the vid that Fender have cut some corners and that is really disappointing. Best start saving for one of Mark Bartels' products....

[@GolecLuka]

What a great job. Sounds heavenly!

[@terrydemol5354]

As usual - very nice job! For 10pF cap, if ceramic, NPO / COG are the best option these days. NPO / COG are superior to all other ceramic formulations in every way except physical size.

[@FuriousMess]

What a difference it makes with just a little TLC. I have to question the modern manufacturing methods. My 57 Custom Champ (bought used) is good but my SF Champ gives it a run for it's money. I re-housed my non-verb Princeton in a MojoTone cab with a Celestion G12M-65 and it is blissful. Thanks for ALL your excellent videos and brutally honest observations.

[@craigthomson3621]

Great choice of speaker. I have swapped out the stock Jenson speaker for a Celestion in my Fender amp.

[@godbyone]

I was thinking on hand wired. But the. Found a fargen. Wow. The fargen has beautiful vintage. Reverb sound. Not sure what he did but it’s awesome

[@BarriePatton-u7p]

Hi there, very interesting thank you, so would you say these Fender hand wired amps are no way near as good as they should be given the money they cost?

[@kenster865]

I found a mint used one on Reverb and it's perfect with no issues whatsoever. I also saved ~$1K off the new list price by going used.

[@Pstaines439]

Love the 'new' reverb. Did you stick with the OEM tank on this? It sounds so much better than the tank/circuit in my 80s The Twin.

[@PsionicAudio]

It’s the stock Ruby after the mechanical repair.

[@dividedbytimestudios]

Are Orange Super Crush amps any good? For $699 they sound well, but I mean Blackstar sound decent but I know their not that reliable. I’d like a sub $1500 amp, I mostly record with modelers though

[@francislalonde7843]

I've tried one at my local store and it sound fantastic!! But now I would like to know if the wiring inside is a mess or not!! I'm interested with the 68 custom deluxe too!! Would you recommend it?? The only thing I have to try is the blonde tonemaster deluxe reverb before I'll make my decision!

[@danielweinbaum]

Ahhhh....I wish I was a fly on the wall to hear Jimi record Little Wing through his 59 Bassman back in the day! I wish that I never sold my 2004 reissue! Oh well! Another awesome video ! Have you ever had a MARSH amp on your workbench? I have a Marsh Springfield (copy of a 65 Vibrolux) with the Overlord circuit! All handwired no PCB. The sound is amazing...all for about a quarter of the price of a boutique amp!

[@rustymohican8280]

Dripping with reverb - great job!

[@francislalonde7843]

I have my eyes on this amp but now I am a little confused. I’ve tried the 68 custom deluxe Reverb and love the sound. What amp do you recommand the most: the 64 handwired or the 68 custom? In both way does I need to understand that I will see my tech to get them in a good shape?

[@uncle_ike]

After hearing you comment on the presence of the F&T filter caps vs. Spragues found on a different unit, and then seeing your comment about the series 2.2nf / 250pf caps on the normal channel... I gotta wonder if electronic component part allocations affected Fender just like they did so many other electronic device manufacturers due to pandemic-induced supply chain restraints. Can't get a supply of the right value cap? Put a couple parts we have in plentiful supply in as an equivalent-value substitute! My work was heavily influenced by electronic part supply shortages, and like other electronics R&D labs and manufacturers, we had to get creative with what we were able to source to stay in business. And you probably already know that we're still not out of the wood yet regarding parts supply.

[@ElliotGKnapp]

Any thoughts on addressing bias trem clipping? I've fought that heavily on a 6G3 build and never REALLY got the clipping gone without the trem being super weak at higher gain settings.

[@TheOdizeo]

hey Lyle this video is full of truth, I only wish it came out before I bought one. I think that the quality does not meet the price tag, not even close. Having said that I'm not giving up on it. Any chance you'll a level 3 repair on one of these?

[@radomirblazik]

About LDRs, European here. I had to draw and 3d print myself the housing for a couple of double element LDRs for a Red Knob (the) Twin recently. I could source the LDR elements and LEDs separately no problem, but not the assembly. On top of that, those were the weird one led - two LDRs in one casing ones, so some fun... I think it is the Cadmium in the Cadmium sulphide cells, there is a kind of an exemption for the cells themselves but not for the assemblies. And I also know that fixing a red Knob Twin is an exercise in futility, but it belongs to a friend.

[@naterogers8703]

I just received a 64 custom last night. I was really nervous about placing the order due to the reviews about hiss and already had plans to send it back. To my surprise it’s absolutely quiet. Now I’m wondering if fender has corrected the problem or if the build quality is that inconsistent. The most surprising thing though is, it’s not much louder than my 64 Custom Princeton . Definitely fuller sounding.

[@monstermax22]

See my post today - mine is very quiet, really pleased with it. Maybe there is some inconsistecy in build.

[@steffenbrix]

Great video! Can you do a video on why all red knob amps are so noisy? 👀🙃

[@soapboxearth2]

I'm happy to hear you say f&t are better quality. I've never bought sprauges for any of my builds, just based on the insane pricing. F&t are bad enough haha

[@4amsolo]

Any new hand wired amps you would recommend?

[@GreggBennett-j3p]

I’m looking into getting a high quality clone instead of one of these things. Thanks for offering up that opinion, Lyle.

[@MattiasBrahammar]

@PsionicAudio Thanks for the interesting videos! So in substance, if we leave out (please!) for a while the sloppy build (loose bolts, poorly mounted internal fuses, "cosmetic capacitors" etc.) as well as the "value for money" discussion; the main DESIGN flaw of this amp, which has a direct impact on its sound quality, is the way the two channels are being mixed (generating the high idle white noise)?

[@fletches4084]

Looks like Fender are being strangled by modern project management techniques. Set cost and timescale to get to market without regard for the quality of the end result. It's a disease affecting most industries these days. Still, got to keep the stockholders and the VCs happy. Luckily there are still people left who do value quality. Always nice to see one such person in action.

[@dbass1276]

Makes me glad I got a tone king, what do you think of them?

[@cap217cap217]

What is the right way to add reverb to each channel?

[@BradsGuitarGarage]

Your playing is sounding nice, mate. Holidays do wonders for technique!

[@PsionicAudio]

Eh… I played A major instead of minor. Ruined it for me, lost steam after that.

[@sheephills510]

Does the reverb sound sandy or gritty to you sir? You mentioned the Princeton circuit, while my 65 FPRI sounds much smoother if you will. Thanks for your presentation Psionic Audio!💯✌️

[@maxpeck4154]

2:05 For me personally I MUCH prefer bias tremolo, but I understand it's not what originally came in the Deluxe.

[@allanschneider2416]

Could you give us an idea what the level 1, 2, and 3 services would cost? Thanks!

[@PsionicAudio]

Level one was bench fee of $150 and $5 in parts (prices as of 1-24). Level two would be $245-$325. Level three would be $330-$410. Probably the higher end of the estimates as I’d have to remove a lot of bad solder to then redo things properly.

[@johnfelser1164]

Excellent presentation, with so much helpful information!!! I wanted to ask for your brief thoughts on the Fender Chris Stapleton Princeton Reissue? I recently purchased one and found many of the same issues you experienced on this Deluxe Reissue, primarily the poor tightening of components. Totally not expected on a $2,400, 12-watt amp! I'd appreciate your insight if you're willing to provide it, as I respect your level of expertise greatly!!!

[@PsionicAudio]

Thanks. I’ve not had that model in but I would expect the build quality to be the same as the other RI amps.

[@johnfelser1164]

Thank you, Lyle! You provide an incredible kindness to those musicians who are blessed to have experienced the wisdom and knowledge you so willingly share!!!

[@matbouche]

I believe the '65 reissue has an opto trem and Fender sell them in europe so I doubt that was the reason behind the bias trem option for this amp. Anyway, great vid as usual, Lyle ! Will rewire V3 just like you did on this one next time I open it up and will also check if all the hardware is tight 😉

[@PsionicAudio]

The EU version of the 65 and 68 have a little solid state daughter board added on to replace the opto trem. No LDR in those either.

[@matbouche]

Thanks for clarifying this. Those EU regulations are crazy ! Stangely enough you can still buy LDRs from TAD...

[@seanweatherford1251]

​@@matboucheI think the EU allows the CdS Cell based trem roach as it is a repair part and not a new design/new manufacture.

[@jezmez68]

Who is the person you said was going to demo this amp and they have a KZbin channel?

[@brentstewart59]

What a sloppy mess of spaghetti inside. Good job fixing the hum

[@timmytVA]

Holy mizzoli! What a difference.

[@NewPraetorianBlues]

Given the apparent need for (or strong improvement dependence on) service and mods, would you recommend saving the money and getting a 65 Deluxe alongside a tech's expertise, or is it still 'worth it' in your opinion to cough up the premium for the 64?

[@PsionicAudio]

I don’t see the 64 as any kind of premium. Get a used 65 RI and have a tech recap it and move screens/heaters to the octal sockets.

[@NewPraetorianBlues]

@@PsionicAudio You're a gentleman and a scholar, thank you sir!

[@gdenson5894]

Would some of these issues with the gain, etc. be mitigated if the owner left a tube in V1? Almost sounds like Fender is counting on the end user not pulling a channel tube like is possible on the originals.

[@PsionicAudio]

It’s still too noisy in stock form with all tubes present.

[@tyrumblez4883]

Thanks for this, I've dodged a bullet as a result.

[@roberthurless4615]

The key phrase here is: "the cheapest possible." If someone wanted to give me $3000.00 I could build a much better DR than that.

[@TeleCaster66]

Yeah, a guy with lots of experience built me a Blackface Deluxe for $1,600 and it's really good. Looks a lot better inside than this amp.

[@TeleCaster66]

One thing I like about my Deluxe Reverb is that there is no reverb or tremelo on the 2nd channel and the 1st channel therefore doesn't have the extra gain stage, I really enjoy the sound of the 1st channel, sometimes I prefer it.

[@hotbrakepads]

Your playing is fine. I see you’ve changed your test lick to something more tasteful 😂

[@johnwilliamson467]

CDE on the silver mica . Nice on the wire relocation .

[@Dave-rk2nl]

That's really nice reverb

[@JimmyWatfordGuitar]

Yeah . ? .? . I liked the video cause it is truthful. Nice to see that even in 1970 fender, um, cough cough, America, did a great job in manufacturing. Nowadays, mostly money making/grabbing advertising. However that still is a clean looking wired amp that this video creator/amp specialist could work on and make it better. Fender is the one who should be ashamed and learn from this video. It's their responsibility to learn from this or lose their customers. It's simple for all of us in all professions. Do your best and do what's right. Be honest. Otherwise, good luck, cause someone else will get the money.

[@caryboudas4771]

I can't believe those blue/yellow caps are all show no go

[@gjohns1960]

They’re not, don’t take something someone says as fact. Do some research, and check it out for yourself.

[@gatormcklusky5850]

I don't remember the wiring looking like that in the advertisement photo for this amp.

[@ebikes2xs159]

Nothing like Fender reverb to my ears.

[@chrisquinn9104]

Love these videos. BTW, the CDE micas are at CD Distribution now! Did I catch that the normal channel is disabled? That is unfortunate option for a $50 dollar amp, let alone a $3k amp. Captain Obvious

[@PsionicAudio]

It was the least expensive way to remove the noise as the owner doesn't use the Normal channel. As the board doesn't have eyelets for the usual Normal channel output cap or its associated mix resistor, this was the least intrusive option, though it would not be my preference. It's a piss poor design.

[@chrisquinn9104]

No critique of you. It was a critique of the design for sure.

[@chrisquinn9104]

Could you build someone a Mojotone kit for under $3k? Just curious, don’t worry, I won’t ask you to build one.

[@MrTech337]

How do you think this amp compares to tmdr?

[@duncan.5228]

Sounds nice Lyle.

[@chickenlickin3820]

This thing is a steaming pos! i'll stick to my standard DRRI. thanks for making us aware its not so great x

[@colbyjack7074]

Sounds SO SO much betta!

[@Swine-O-Sonic]

Looking at that makes me feel much better about my lead dress.... 👀

[@stratrat57]

That tremolo!

[@andrewwebb1911]

Thanks Lyle.

[@mkii1964]

Nice job Lyle!

[@Tweed_Tone]

This amp was so noisy when I played it at my store. Only reason I passed on it. Never had an issue with their tweed reissues

[@erik2446]

Amp curmudgeon! 🔥🔥🔥

[@TucsonBillD]

I’ve owned one of these amps since they came out… but I want the amp Fender promised, not the one they delivered…

[@jutukka]

That 2n2 in series with 250pF: Perhaps if there is DC voltage to be blocked and that 250 pF cap is of poor quality, that 2n2 could just be a safety feature. 😁

[@PsionicAudio]

They used a solo 250pF on the other channel. For those new to series caps, 2.2nF in series with 250pF gives you 224.5pF. Extra expense to achieve nothing.

[@jutukka]

@@PsionicAudio God only knows what they were thinking. Well, maybe even God doesn't understand what they were thinking. 😁

[@kennethquintini658]

Fantastic work 👌👍👏🎸

[@gjohns1960]

Psionic Audio, I agree with you on one thing, this is all just your opinion.

[@PsionicAudio]

Drawn from working on hundreds of actual sixties era Fenders. But yeah. Just that.

[@gatormcklusky5850]

would love to hear the owner play it, a link maybe?

[@whatcher8151]

Sounds great

[@Gutbucket3000]

Bought the hoopla, promptly sold the hoopla.

[@JulianFernandez]

you know your stuff. kudos!

[@GregsGarage]

Scads of good info!

[@paulwatson8809]

64 Custom with 74 Spaghetti Western Mod...

[@papadelta1791]

Nice job. It is a shame that it has to be worked from the factory. Luckily it can be worked relatively easily.

[@clovergrass9439]

The Fender Marketing Corporation that also happens to make mediocre amps while co-opting a former legacy.

[@richardweza3369]

It nearly gets into your category of too well repaired for Fender to get credit. Sadly that’s before you solve the rest of its problems. You need an add on badge for mods. The Marshalls should get it too.

[@tonya4157]

Much better!

[@robertfair1770]

GREAT VIDEO MAN!!!!

[@nicholasberndt6224]

Soundtrack by Quentin Tarantino!

[@ghostface_grilla1155]

Totally proper now👊😎

[@camerond8176]

Sadly Fender of today is a modern company where cost is key, and minimizing it at all cost is the priority.................Quality plays somewhere down the line. Now we all know Leo Fender was indeed mindful of costs and keeping them low, but the build quality of his workers was top notch and was NEVER dropped to make a buck. Fender's under Leo's ownership were professional built and assembled instruments, and it's been a long falling level since then, with small bursts of hope here and there.

[@mamulcahy]

I’m surprised you didn’t replace the cap at C27 with a better cap.

[@m.charron]

That would be the next stage, if the customer wants to go that route.

[@grandudetonesnob7107]

Custom shop must mean more attention to the wrong details..