Psionics in DnD - New Rules

Here is a link to the original Mind Bender article: save.vs.totalp...
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[@wbbartlett]

My ears perked up when you said Massive Attack. Then I realised, not the band from my home city.

[@BanditsKeep]

🎶

[@strawpiglet]

I love it. Great balancing here to a troublesome ability. I also love the try, try again aspect.

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@grumpyoldslan]

Randoms thoughts I have a vague memory of a Psionicist class in some issue of Dragon -- I much prefer the name you chose "...dedicated to the study and mastery of the mind" -- this immediately made me think of the Mentat, the Bene Gesserit and the Reverant Madres in Dune If you've seen or read Akira, you can see a variety of power levels and the negative effects these powers could have on the user. (I swear I wrote that _then_ clicked on the link ot the Mind Bender article, then saw Tetsuo...) Wild talents: I love how you mechanically implemented what is often seen in fiction with ESP powers: the older men tor type character with a single power, but expert at using it, the young, reckless "newbie" who takes great risks but potentially gains greater powers and the idiot who has some power, but suffered from some trauma that permanently changed them etc...

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@SnowmanInHell]

Really like your take on psionics. Not an od&d bloke myself, but sounds like what you came up with would fit the system. For myself, it’s just not D&D without psionics

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@johnedwards5738]

Long live the Battlemind...my very first character was an experiment with a 1/2 Human 1/2 Planetar who's primary class was Druid multiclassed to Ranger who was also gifted with psionics, those powers were limited so as to balance the also limited 1/2 Planetar hereditary gifts . Had a solid career as a hunter of Rakshasa and Illithid.

[@trioofone8911]

That "Pushing" mechanics is excellent

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks 😊

[@CatMunroe71]

I love psionics. I prefer a class, but left D&D because so many people hate them that 5E made it magic. That really upset me as the character I have tried to play for four decades has no magic but psionics as an elf. I switched to GURPS.

[@BanditsKeep]

Gurps definitely seems fun

[@Rattus138]

I appreciate your effort in making a class for your players! Maybe the Gith (or some other flavour of "alien") could be a Psionic race-as-class as well? With fighter bonuses, just like what the elf is to the magic user.

[@BanditsKeep]

That could work for sure

[@jakynth]

I really like this concept and haven't used psionics in dnd in many years. I think this may be a good fit for my weird fantasy game currently in play. Instead of rolling at character creation I could have them roll the first time they are hit with a psionic attack to see if it awakens something in them.

[@BanditsKeep]

I like that

[@MrRourk]

if the players really want it. I pull out the Old Rifts Book and we use the Powers from there. I insist on no Bursters or Psi Knights. You can have a Psi Sword if you roll one up.

[@BanditsKeep]

Mega damage!

[@MrRourk]

@@BanditsKeep Juicer Football

[@aaronsmith5055]

That game had so much potential. Did they ever make a d20 version? I love the world building.

[@edwardtodd6160]

Thanks for this, I always loved this part of 1e, yeah,i was a kid then, but didn't care for game balance, I just wanted to play man! lol Thanks for the resources, it's always nice to see other perspectives on psionics

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@ShaggyShagz13]

I miss my Elan, Psion, Soulknife. I manifested a long sword instead of a knife.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@Impossible_Emporium]

One of the things I like in Rolemaster was the idea of Mentalists which intergrated into the magic system very well without over powering anything.

[@BanditsKeep]

So just another type of magic?

[@WizardJim]

I love this system you've come up with, is the PDF available to download anywhere to peruse? I wanted an OSR psionics system for a game based on The Night Land, but wasn't happy with any of the current ones I've seen about. This however is exactly what I'm looking for.

[@BanditsKeep]

I’m working on it, will link when I am done

[@edwardtodd6160]

@@BanditsKeep can't wait for this!

[@arheru]

Wait just a minute - why are there so few views on this video? Is it unlisted and I just tripped over it?

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes yes it is

[@sgtbigballs666]

Tell your friends to watch and subscribe, excellent knowledge here 🤔

[@aaronsmith5055]

It’s just brand new. Bandit’s Keep videos age like hard cheeses.

[@copperclockmaker]

The first D&D setting I played in was Dark Sun, back in about 1991. For those that don't know, psionics are integral to the setting, and Dark Sun without them just seems weird. About a year later I finally played in a "regular" D&D setting. Psionics seemed shoehorned in, and didn't really fit. After that I came to the conclusion that psionics can definitely be used in D&D, but they should make sense within the setting. If they are just a "bolt on" they can cause more complication and trouble than they are worth.

[@BanditsKeep]

Good point

[@dragonboyjgh]

People say psionics is redundant with magic. I disagree, I appreciate the thematic difference. People say it's theme is too sci-fi. Again, I disagree. It's Lovecraftian Horror, which is still very much pulp fantasy. Neh-thalggu, Neogi, Flumphs, Gibbering Mouthers, especially Aboleths and Mindflayers and all their (ex-)experiments and minions. It's not hard to see Gygax's inspiration. Psionics at its best is something that should not be, something invasive, unnatural, fundamentally alien yet corrupting the native, dangerous and unknowable. And PC psionics should reflect this. A psionic character should be one that through exposure to this aberrant force either intentionally, accidentally, or unwillingly, has become infected with it, and despite this mutation's intrusive and unnatural nature, struggles to reclaim it as their own, potentially even as a weapon against said sources, like the Gith and Derro did. A psionic PC is flexing a metaphorical third arm they started growing or had forcibly grafted, at some times vestigial and weak, sometimes monstrous and hard to restrain. A PC psionics should be noticably scarred and warped by their enabling encounter, if not physically then mentally, if they weren't permanently affected in some way they wouldn't be psionic. They should seem... Noticably Off.

[@sgtbigballs666]

Every time ive tried to play a character with psionics I've been shouted down so I let it go, old school only players of course 🤔 good take, Daniel, id run any version but I've never had a player bring it up haha

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes, for some reason many do not like psionics - I’m a fan, clearly

[@sgtbigballs666]

@@BanditsKeep me too, id like to run a character as a pc or dm, no luck so far haha

[@JungleRice]

I like psionics. I have a psionic order of knights that fly on griffin back looking for sensitives to bring back for training.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@ReadingDave]

I like psionics and I think that there is room in fantasy for more psionics than the typical categories. Your rules look like it can fit in to the Basic/Expert systems well. I would want something simple but reliable in the lore of the class. Wizards might have a rare expendable resource, like how you have the psionics, yet wizards also have things like use magic items, assumed engineering and arcane knoweldge, make magic items, make potions, design spells, and the intimidation of supreme possiblity. Clerics have things like make holy water, a social support structure, possible visitations and random powers from the divine, create and use clerical magic items. Would psionics have similar things? I would suggest some sort of set of skills which the psionist so the class isn't totaly like a wand of wonder. I suppose you could embrace the chaos and make reliable skills which have random results. Thanks for letting me ramble. Nice work.

[@BanditsKeep]

Really good point. Even in games without explicit “backgrounds” for classes, most people would agree what you stated about wizards and clerics is true as we generally have a shared understanding. Psionics (as a class) would stand to use the same

[@ericjome7284]

Very well done. Shades of Dungeon Crawl Classics...

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks- I’m actually not a fan of the DCC psionics system, the magic is pretty sweet though

[@joshuaward5498]

Very well done. I loved the 2e psionicist handbook back in the day. This reminds me of that only WAY less complicated. Maybe I missed it but where can we get a copy , Patreon?

[@BanditsKeep]

I will make it a available soon - I need to do some re-writing

[@millerdiamond708]

the mind is a weapon

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@RoDaGrier]

Taking your rules for psionics and Night Owl Publishing's, Warriors of the Red Planet, and I think you have a pretty good model for and OSR Darksun game.

[@BanditsKeep]

Ah yes, I love Warriors of the Red Planet

[@trioofone8911]

Cool system. A couple observations/ideas. You could do a campaign that is only your version of psionics: there may be a psion or two, but everyone else is just a martial class, but they all have a single ability from the wild talent table. Another: this could work very well for those settings that are the "Latter Earth" type of setting, mostly magic, but every once in a while things like robots or nuclear powered space ships anachronistically dot the landscape, a la Journey to the Barrier Peaks. Another, more extreme notion: use your basic mechanic described here for spell casting as well...

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@altersilentium]

I don't do discord or facebook, so I just say what I think here. I never liked psionics in AD&D as the rules were written. I had enough just trying to figure the game out when I was young. They are part of the Sword and Sorcery Genre and can be seen in the Robert Howard Conan and Solomon Kane stories. Not sure I like the class you created, but as a rare extra power, I could see that as being worth adding.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool, thanks for the feedback

[@michaelwest4325]

Perhaps psionics is too super power like for a system that has magic. But I do prefer your take, I think any such super normal power should be dangerous or risky with rewards and consequences. Your Class approach seems in keeping with old D&D balances to create a hybrid rather than super charging an existing class with a power beyond the abilities as magic or turning the Undead would to the fighter if just another ability. Sounds like you created more what it should be, a distinct way to play and the wild talent is a nice way to treat this ability as not exclusive similar to how the Thief abilities perhaps were in OD&D. But I think psionics is more for Sci-fi as the ersatz magic, so not convinced one needs an alternate magic when you have the MU or Cleric already being nerfed for being OP.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@TaintedBalance]

I like everything but the variant rule give/take balancing. While it is clever to have the breakdown be a feedback mechanism that reduces their chances for future gains, it doesn't feel in line with the vibe of the class or sited sources. I think personality quirks and mental ailments would work better. Some mix of wild magic, warhammer mutations, and DCC mishaps feels a bit more correct to me. In most genres with psionics or similar mental powers, those who reach beyond their ability or fail to expand their mind adequately become different, not weaker (except for real bad cases, which I think a second roll on a table to see what you ended up having happen does, functionally - roll to confirm crit basically). I think this also gives more opportunities at roleplaying and narrative development. Riffing off that, you could have some of the negative effects work similar to forced metamagic that kicks in randomly as you've lost control over your abilities, or semi-permanent effects to ability. Example: You've rolled a 20, and then on the "what happens" table, you rolled "Existing power flawed". You rng roll between your existing powers, and get Remote Viewing. Looking at the result you see that now whenever you use Remote Viewing, you need to roll a d6. On a 5-6, the target gets the exact same effect on YOU. You could play with this further and allow future rolls to see if you power up when you level up can be spent to "fix" the flaws that you gained, showing mastery (but also enticing the player to risk MORE flaws). Anyways, I should really just join the discord instead of megaposting on youtube.

[@BanditsKeep]

Sounds interesting

[@NegativeHeadspace]

Interesting. Cool vid. My players would love this.

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks

[@Nexusofgeek]

I like them, at first I did not understand how they worked in AD&D but after re-reading my 1st edition PHB and DMG, I understand the mechanic now and I am going to incorporate them into my 5e campaign. I don't think they are overpowered, just another cool thing players can add to their arsenal if they qualify for them

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@christianthatcher9644]

I have a darksun conversion for BX (im using old school essentials) that has psionics rules. They look pretty good.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@Spartanunit5]

We need more psionics

[@BanditsKeep]

I agree

[@shallendor]

Palladium still has my favorite Psionic system, also best spell system and alignment system!!

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@nosaurian]

This is Great. Also, I like psionics very much, but I don't like it to be a class either. I consider psionics to be magic, and back in AD&D we All REALLY enjoyed spellcasters with wild talents. I've always considered that many spells are actually mental, like charms and detection spells, as well as telekinesis (Force effects). but for the psion to be a separate class it would need to be woven into the whole world-building.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@MarkMcMillen2112]

I think psionics can be fun, but would need to be with a group that had some extensive experience with the game. It can be a lot to keep up with.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed - unless you make it just another form of magic with the same rules, which I am not a fan of.

[@TheEricthefruitbat]

I'm sort of on the fence wrt psionics. Sometimes I think they could be pretty cool, sometimes I think "no way". I guess it would depend on the type of campaign and group. I would tend to lean toward it being something someone might have, rather than a class.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@satturnine7320]

Nice work!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks

[@TKFKU]

Psionics were a muddied issue. Do they affect magic? Does magic affect them? Will dispel magic also work on psionics or vice versa. It was wierd and if your dm wasn't into them you didn't use them simply because they weren't very clear in the early days or were not d&d enough. 2e's complete psionics book made things much more playable and 3e basically ran with "the are basically the same" as magic, making psions just "other mages" instead of an interesting class. Personally no one I know has ever asked to play using them except for once when the dm had just bought the 2e book and wanted to run a psionics game which lasted exactly one session before tossing it out in frustration.

[@BanditsKeep]

Psionics are not magic in OD&D or 1e

[@jakehollingworth4226]

How can I get a copy of this to use for my game?

[@muker83]

Wait is it a reupload? I think I've already seen it or at least a part of it, in addition yt indicates progress somewhere in the middle. I didn't watch it yesterday nor is it in my history. Are you using some psionic power to mess with my mind?

[@arheru]

It was unlisted but part of a playlist. :)

[@BanditsKeep]

Yup 😊

[@BanditsKeep]

Magic 🪄

[@jakynth]

Maybe I missed it in the video but is there a place to get access to your homebrew psionics document?

[@BanditsKeep]

Not yet. I will post when they are finished

[@Arnsteel634]

Even said it was a mistake. But this is a nice system

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks

[@VAHelix]

Where can I get this, I looked on drivethru, but couldn't find it?

[@BanditsKeep]

I haven’t released it yet, hopefully soon

[@teddux]

What do you think about the ardent?

[@BanditsKeep]

Not sure what that is

[@teddux]

@@BanditsKeep the ardent was a psionic class of the 3.5 Edition that I think has an interesting mechanic which is more similar to the mana of video games

[@alexlore4716]

So is this ur self made system or what?

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed it is

[@artistpoet5253]

Never really used psionics in my games or encountered it in other games. Magic wasn't a thing either.

[@BanditsKeep]

Which systems did/do you play?