90 Day Fiancé - (Mike & Natalie #57) - Stonewall - Therapist Reacts

[@Hi-to-ri]

The irony of Mike getting frustrated by someone else not answering questions!!!

[@EnjoyLife-op5rn]

True. And the irony of Natalie getting upset by avoiding her issues with Mike

[@EnjoyLife-op5rn]

@@anikejulien7273 Natalie too. She complained about Mike not talking about issues, then she refuses to discuss her issues with Trish.

[@lisam2155]

Mike is simply a passive aggressive jerk.

[@Hi-to-ri]

@@anikejulien7273 I agree.

[@RedBunni1024]

Natalie should have just said “I don’t know, ya know. Hahahaha”

[@selins4442]

It's impactful that this segment ended with Mike stating "I'm sorry my mom had to experience that". We didn't hear him considering his wife's feelings at any point.

[@saras.301]

Yup, he is not husband material at all

[@nancylang7451]

@@saras.301 I agree that Mike could have handled the situation better by not taking his mother’s side. Likewise, Natalie could have put her relationship with Mike first and talked to Mike’s mother about what was said. Natalie’s stonewalling was definitely frustrating for his mother because Natalie withdrew without discussing her concern. Natalie, too, has wife material to work on.

[@BeckBeckGo]

Not to mention how his mother said how childish she was being. At then acted far more childish when Natalie left. She’s a passive aggressive asshole, frankly. I don’t doubt for a second that she called her a hooker and probably in a way she thinks she can spin doctor later.

[@StephSunshineArtistry]

When Mike said "you're so smart," it wasn't a compliment. What he said was basically, "you're so smart, so I don't understand why you're acting so dumb now." He's trying to shame her into submission. There's also a vibe of "I thought you were smart, but maybe I was wrong." Trying to instill fear into her that he's going to see her differently if she keeps "acting like this."

[@plsstfu3053]

Yup. It also comes off as condescending in a way

[@thedudeabides5695]

Disagree....it was sarcastic.

[@StephSunshineArtistry]

@@thedudeabides5695 listen to it again @9:55 he says "you're so smart, but there's a problem you create in your own imagination..." Maybe my perception of it is colored because it's exactly how my mother used to speak to me when she wanted to invalidate what I was saying. But I tend to think that I understand it better because I heard that kind of talk so much growing up and I learned from experience what was behind it. I'm guessing that he has told her in the past that she's smart and that's one of the things that he's attracted to about her. Now he's using it against her.

[@msheavnly77]

I feel like the mom knows how to push Natalie's buttons and she does it on purpose. Then pretends like she has no idea why Natalie is upset. It's as if she wants to trigger Natalie so she'll leave.

[@jojobee42]

YES!! I totally agree.

[@sarahdee374]

Makes sense, and then when Natalie responds with hurt and anger she is "crazy". This is crazy to a family of emotionally constipated people.

[@Marsha-at-Home-Endeavor]

It's that gaslighting?

[@amandaroberts3534]

She is very passive aggressive.Then, she plays little miss innocent. Mike is a mama’s boy, passive aggressive, and completely oblivious to his mother’s war tactics. As for the confrontation in the vehicle, I would not have even spoken as much as Natalie. There was nothing she could have said in that moment that would have allowed her to get her feelings across. She was completely ganged up on.

[@racharina]

True!

[@codysmovingcastle]

Whew, that tone Mike had was brutal. I'd probably have shut down or decided to keep my distance to avoid being talked at like that again. That 2 vs 1 dynamic fills me with anxiety.

[@MissMotita]

Me too. I felt he was too upset. I felt scared. I would have shut down too 😔

[@Williamfootsie]

For me personally this was hard to watch. When I get to a very triggered upset level and people come at me the way Mike was I shut down similar to Natalie. I stonewall out of fear, not resentment or anything. I feel like I physically can’t speak to this person because my body is in such a state of distress. Kind of hard to explain if you haven’t experienced it but maybe that’s how Natalie felt as well.

[@alyshiac.6420]

this 100%

[@mickymyko]

Same!! Also when that ask what is wrong i cannot answer them because my mind is frozen. And then they say "see? i knew nothing was wrong."

[@LilPotatoz]

Or when you know if you say something, it won’t be received in a healthy way and you are walking into a hurtful conversation. It’s hard to make yourself walk into one.

[@janinedc1]

totally agree!

[@jbow958]

These people don't even know you. I don't think you should be so emotionally invested. It's all a bunch of scripted bullshit anyways.

[@thelivingrisi7233]

Ugh. Natalie is not the nicest, but they treat her so badly. I'd rather be friends with Nat than these family. They dont take her seriously. Something is obviously wrong but they always act like she's just a kid acting out, she'll get over it. Even if her hurts turn out baseless, their reaction is to her is so dysfunctional.

[@NickyG_vz]

he thought he was getting a sex doll that could barely speak English.

[@janinedc1]

agree -and Natalie is alone in a new country, she doesn't have family/friends that she can turn to. Mike and his mom should be making the extra effort to help her feel welcome. Their actions show that they wanted to make Natalie feel bad and doomed the relationship.

[@BeckBeckGo]

The only good trait of that mother is that if she DOES like you, she will have your back. Like if someone she likes murdered someone, she’d show up with a shovel. …. Actually I don’t know how good that is…

[@asunnywebb]

Oh nooo, the "you're so smart" from Mike wasn't a compliment. It was dripping with pure sarcasm. He was saying "you say you're so smart but you can't talk". Which is actually laughable coming from him.

[@catspajamas2961]

Is "you're so smart" ever a compliment?

[@shelmie5]

Yeah, it was definitely a back handed compliment

[@BeckBeckGo]

@@shelmie5 it gives “you’re too smart to be this genuinely stupid so you must be playing games.” When she clearly should have boundaries against this foolishness.

[@TheMorcroft]

I'm also avoidant in relationship conflict. But pretending that you don't know why your wife is upset, rather than - at the very least - telling your Mom there was a missunderstanding over something she said, that's next level. If he wants to avoid conflict this is the worst way to do it. (Take it from an avoiding conflict pro!!!!)

[@thedudeabides5695]

"What did she say?".....COME ON! Just tell your Mom about the "Hooker" remark claim...Mike is freakin' unreal with his ignorance routine!

[@isgravybaby]

Mike acts like he hates Natalie.

[@bashmeesh]

I'm pretty sure he does lol

[@luvbutchfeetpix.1086]

He hates her behavior NOT her. This is the same old shit with her, nothing changes when nothing changes. Should have left her at home by herself then. She came to Trish's house with a chip on her shoulder. I guess you'll just ignore that little fact.

[@cinnamon4524]

Haha looks like we found the monster in law 👹

[@picho5553]

He does because he is over her. I vant, vant, vant. Mike I vont like dis house, Mike I vont like you're food, Mike I vont vant to vork. Would you put up with that?

[@thetransparentjerseygirl]

@@luvbutchfeetpix.1086 and what has changed with Mike?????🤔🤨 Mike also has issues and isn't helping the situations they have at all

[@MiMi-yt8nw]

He says “no one did ever do anything to you but you are mad” even tho she TOLD him what happened so why would she continue this talk by giving the reasons for being mad to them AGAIN. Mike won’t back her up anyways and now it’s two against one. That could be another reason why she doesn’t wanna say what the problem is again because she knows it’s pointless He discounts everything she says “I guarantee you it’s a misunderstanding”

[@thedudeabides5695]

Pure Gaslighting

[@selins4442]

I realized while watching your reaction, Dr. Honda, that I feel like Natalie may have inappropriately (and randomly, tbh) triangulated her mom with "my mom told me not to talk to you" type things because she could feel very ganged up on and was trying to finally have someone on her side. She's been battling her husband for a while, and after being alone in a foreign country with no supports, being faced with her husband aligning with his mother against her may have made her desperate to feel like she wasn't completely alone in her feelings and "right"ness. Also, I think it's interesting how so many are caught up on "did Trish call Natalie a hooker or not" as if that's the major issue here. It's definitely a point of intrigue because it's either salacious if Trish said it or made up by Natalie if Trish didn't, but it seems like this one thing has overshadowed everything else that has occurred. Regardless of if the accusation of Natalie being a hooker was made, there are still hurtful issues of Trish asking the neighbor to object at the wedding, taking Natalie to a butcher shop, demeaning Natalie about her age in regards to childbearing, letting Natalie step on a tack in her home then being completely unaffected by it, etc. That said, I can see both Natalie lying in hopes that "well Michael didn't think any of the things that happened were hurtful so maybe this'll be enough" and Trish saying something like that. If Trish could say "give her $5k and send her back", I don't get the feeling she's a super kind person.

[@musingwanderer2765]

Trish is trashy and underhand 🙄

[@Madmarsha]

Exactly. Everyone needs a soft place to land. Mike's is obviously Trish and no one took a step back and realized it was 2 against 1 ganging up on her. Now, Natalie hasn't done herself any favors to engender the soft treatment; but she doesn't deserve 2 people standing outside a car yelling at her and making demands on her to talk without giving her any hope of not being attacked for whatever she says.

[@jbow958]

Natalie is a damn nutcase.

[@artemythical]

Mike is so uncaring lol It feels like he hates her. How’s that a relationship?

[@jenloveslouis8819]

I agree with you 1,000,000%. I understand Natalie‘s being upset. Your husband should be your partner. He should take your word and be the liaison between her and his mom. Every man should. But instead of being caring he basically backed her into a corner with his mom beside him and berated her. It wouldn’t matter what she said he already made up his mind It was in her imagination that she missed heard something or made it up. Mike makes me thankful for my husband I’m telling you! LOL

[@nancylang7451]

@@jenloveslouis8819 I have a different perspective. Natalie’s issue was between Trish and her, not Mike. Mike should not be a liaison between the two. It’s up to Natalie to bring her issue to Trish since Natalie has the issue. Also, Natalie’s conflict with Trish puts Mike in the middle. If Natalie wasn’t so consumed by her own issue, then she could be emphatic with her husband and realize the predicament that he has if he takes a side. Instead of being emphatic with Mike’s situation, she refuses to process her issue with Trish, placing more stress on everyone. Trish is being very passive aggressive by stonewalling on her issue.

[@asunnywebb]

Petty side note: "My friends love those scarves I give them." ~Trish Do they, Trish, do they really?

[@thebowandbullet]

😁

[@birdie4084]

Lol!

[@brainfluidZ]

I don’t think they would say something if they didn’t ☠️

[@jojobobocake]

That comment Trish made me picture some really hideous scarves 😂

[@gandalf6830]

I said out loud to myself "No they don't Trish" and spooked my cat.

[@lucylohan8894]

Mikes mom: Natalie you should be a translator Also Mikes mom: I don’t think Natalie understands what we are saying. 🤣🤣🤣

[@khadijah3519]

Right!!

[@djregina6897]

Trish makes no sense ever. She told Natalie she had to get a job and make money and the minute Natalie told her what she wanted to do for a career she said she seems to be too career oriented... Like what !? Pick one.

[@BeckBeckGo]

@@djregina6897 I’ll tel you what that is. Natalie can’t do anything right according to that vicious childish woman.

[@djregina6897]

@@BeckBeckGo I agree. Mike's mom is just coming across as judgmental and not very educated about the rest of the world outside her little countryside town.

[@catspajamas2961]

I think with Mike and Trish ganging up on Natalie, yelling at her, looming in over her in the car, pretending that they need Natalie to inform them of what Trish said and did, that Natalie's silence could better be described as "gray rock" rather than "silent treatment." Silent treatment is mostly when someone refuses to talk in day to day life, not so much a situation like this. Gray rock is refusing to engage with toxic behaviors.

[@silvia-with-an-i]

Why do Americans think that they can send someone back to their country like they return delivery packages? You don’t hold the keys to the country. If you treat your immigrant significant other like a returnable good, you didn’t deserve them in the first place. Bye 👋🏻

[@katerineella274]

Bravo for that comment!!

[@Hi-to-ri]

Yes!

[@cheche9528]

Thank you ! Finally someone said it! When I was be cheated on while just had new baby. My ex threat to send me back to my country if I don’t agree to his terms! What make him think he got the power?

[@Irena-Irena]

YES!!!

[@silvia-with-an-i]

@@cheche9528 I’m so sorry that happened to you. No human being deserves to be treated this way. I’m glad you could overcome such a difficult time.

[@catspajamas2961]

Mike was pretending like he didn't know what Natalie was talking about when she said Trish was making fun of her. Mike just wants to humiliate her by making her recite back to them how Trish was making fun of her, in addition to wanting to bash her for having any kind of problem with the way Trish was acting. It's fair enough that Natalie triangulates her mother in at this point since Mike has triangulated his mother in big time. Why should Natalie be all alone against these two when they are plainly ganging up on her?

[@RedBunni1024]

And she’s alone in America with no real friends and no one who speaks her native language. I can understand Natalie feeling isolated and alone and turning to her mother for support.

[@catspajamas2961]

@@RedBunni1024 Plus she's even more isolated at Mike's mother's house without even neighbors she knows to get help from.

[@EnjoyLife-op5rn]

I have a different perspective. I don't think that Mike was pretending. He and his mother sincerely wanted to know what was Natalie's issue. Unfortunately, Natalie did not state the issue clearly and was unwilling to process it with Trish. So, Trish and Mike became frustrated that Natalie wanted to stay stuck in her upset. It seems that Mike's mother said that Natalie was a "good cooker," but Natalie heard "good hooker." Interestingly, Natalie could tell Mike, but not Trish. From my perspective, the issue was between Natalie and Trish. Mike should have stayed out of it.

[@RedBunni1024]

@@EnjoyLife-op5rn maybe, but as Dr. Honda stated Natalie already told Mike that she thought his mom called her a hooker. So Mike knew that was a possibility of why she was upset. Of course neither one was right or wrong but Mike has a tendency to act innocent and clueless when Natalie has already stated why she’s upset.

[@EnjoyLife-op5rn]

@@RedBunni1024 If Natalie was so clear with Mike about the hooker comment, why couldn't she tell Trish? Mike should not have been the intermediary between the two woman. The issue was between the two women, and Natalie needed to tell Trish what she heard so that they could address it.

[@irairod5160]

Natalie does not (yet) have enough fluency in English to work as an interpreter, and only monolingual people like Mike and Trish would think she could get a job translating documents or doing any type of semi-professional interpretation. If they spoke more languages, they would understand, very clearly, that being able to ask for coffee in another language does not a bilingual person make.

[@kristi_cat7943]

She knows that they’ll call her crazy. I’ve been in her shoes where I won’t open my mouth because it won’t be received well at all.

[@K119_]

Yes! I did this too and was accused of stonewalling. But I was protecting myself because my words kept being used against me.

[@loredanadincu7930]

She is crazy .

[@kristi_cat7943]

@@loredanadincu7930 omg, she needs a diagnosis and get some help. Seriously.

[@kat_likemeow]

Whenever I meet someone's parents, the person suddenly makes perfect sense to me 😑

[@lucymziri1130]

So accurate

[@RockStarKelly8118]

FACTS thats exactly how I feel!!!!

[@MartaValentin3]

Me tooo hahaha every time I meet a guy I’m like so when can I meet your parents

[@kat_likemeow]

@@MartaValentin3 lol absolutely

[@shelmie5]

Yep

[@thelivingrisi7233]

Mike's just trying to show off to his mom that he can be "strong" and "dominant" like her. I bet without his mom, he'll just sit around and have that stupid look in his face. They are just plain abusive people.

[@lillidaisyASMR]

😂

[@karenharrison6407]

Felt like 2 bullied attacking her. If my husband took his mother's side like that..his bags would be packed.

[@Fit_pharmacist]

Seriously! You and your wife are one now…as much as I dislike Elizabeth and Andrei, Elizabeth stands by her husband no matter what. He isn’t even trying to be on both sides! just latched on to mommy lol

[@Atomicqueen9]

@@Fit_pharmacist right!!

[@katerineella274]

I really dislike Mike and his mother. I can't imagine having to stay in the same house with them and be expected to fit in with their bizarre ideas of fun, eat their nasty food (while watching their horrid table manners) or act happy to be given one of those hideous scarves. Not to mention their conversation...

[@notjulianne87]

Lol the scarf is hideous

[@papitosabe]

I take it you like Natalie, since your comment was only directed at mike/mom. Natalie is just as bad in her own destructive ways. She was what started the relationship to turn sour.

[@everythingiseverything9920]

@@papitosabe Nobody needs to like or dislike Natalie to dislike Mike and his mom. I'm rather indifferent to Natalie, she's not perfect, I can see why one might find her cute here and irritating there but Mike is more and more insufferable (to me) every single time, and worse than ever around his mother, aka "the source."

[@papitosabe]

@@everythingiseverything9920 I can't stand Mike and his mother. My only point was that she only pointed them out, when Natalie is just as bad in her own ways

[@katerineella274]

@@papitosabewhy are you so insistent that I say something bad about Natalie? My thoughts and statements were about Mike and his mother and their wierd attitudes and homelife. I would be incredibly uncomfortable having to stay with them. Probably feel the need to shed my skin after getting out of there. I'm not taking sides, just saying how these two mean, unthinking people behave and live. Thus is reality TV. I'm not on anyone's side because I don't watch the program and don't think according to 'home team' mentality. Mike and his mother make my skin crawl and I would last five minutes in their "home".

[@moomoocachoo9025]

I wonder if Natalie mentioned her mom because Mike and his mom were ganging up on her and she felt like she needed someone in her corner in that moment.

[@djregina6897]

I think so too. She has no one there really and they were completely ganging up on her!

[@carmenmisiti7852]

@@djregina6897 I’d be calling my mom too!!!! Natalie’s mom is such a sweet woman.

[@nathalieiseli-chan4731]

I can't help but bring my 2 cents to the interpretation discussion: the fact that one speaks another language does not qualify anyone to be an interpreter (in speaking) nor a translator (in writing). Such jobs require an utter mastery of your native language as well as the target language(s), in addition to having a sound knowledge of specific fields like tourism, banking, medicine and so on.... Translating and interpreting go beyond just words, one also has to be able to convey emotions, feeling, idioms.... from one language to another. That being said, I understand where Trish comes from, she probably is monolingual and has no clue what these jobs are about. And by the way, the same applies to teaching one's own language.

[@thedudeabides5695]

Not only that, but who would her customers be in Sequim? I don't see too many Russians in the woods there!

[@rrdcreates]

Plus she already has a journalism career lol - as an artist I can’t stand when people tell me to get another job as if I can just decide to jump into another industry

[@methosimortal]

also interpreting requires you to be able to translate in real time. no one wants to sit around for 5 minutes waiting for you to figure out syntax and language appropriate interpretation while in the middle of an important conversation. Natalie's grasp of the English language is at about an intermediate level. That's really not good enough in order to efficiently work as a translator or interpreter. Also, as someone who has done a lot of translations to earn extra money while in collage, it's a very tiring and dull job that I would never want to do again.

[@Silvianamo]

Hang on, this woman called mike’s neighbour to ask her to object at their wedding cause she didn’t want him to marry her. Are these small matters then?

[@Hi-to-ri]

Exactly

[@codysmovingcastle]

"I dIdN't SaY aNyThInG dIsReSpEcTfUl"

[@luvbutchfeetpix.1086]

Auh yeah, there is a Pandemic. She couldn't be there herself. I would stand up against Natalie's agenda, now that is more clear what it is. She wants to be on American Television, any way she can. Just Look at BIG ED . Same agenda.

[@katthecat6657]

Natalie understood that being in a relationship can be challenging, which is why she stayed with Mike despite huge incompatibilities in lifestyle and general life expectations. What, in my view, tipped her off was Mike's siding with his mom. Suddenly she was no longer married to Mike but Mike & Trish. She verbalized it as if she was married to Trish and not Mike, indicating that this triangulated relationship was the dealbreaker. It was unfair of Mike to involve his mother to this degree, side with her, and leave Natalie feeling even more alone. This would be a massive dealbreaker for me. It must have been unbearable for Natalie to be in a foreign country with no friends and emotional support. Mike and Trish supported each other, validated and justified their realities. Natalie was alone until she found emotional support from her mom. I am glad that she left this toxic situation that was drawing the worst out of them all.

[@CaulkMongler]

I very much agree with everything you said, and I’ll even add on that she finally realized the mother was a major part of the reason she had to deal with everything she dealt with up til now - the fact that he deals with problems the way he does, because his mother is the same exact way. She realized that no matter how long she would stick with him, it would not matter whatsoever what she wanted him to see or come around to because as long as his mother were there he would 100% run to mommy when stuff got rough versus actually trying to improve and change for her because his wife isn’t even the number one person in his life.

[@emmalouise4864]

I don't know about the US, but in Australia to become an interpreter is not easy! Like its not that you just speak the other language, you need to demonstrate a level of competency in the language, study and pass and ethics test, pass a number of interpreting tasks and exams, apply and interview before a panel etc. To tell her to just BE an interpreter doesn't make sense to me! Its a lot of work and study.

[@princesstelevision67]

It's the same in the US. I imagine Trish doesn't know about that.

[@lavinder11]

Freelance. Natalie would have an easier time being noticed on fiverr for freelance work than becoming a influencer on YT and insta like she's aiming for right now

[@gunillajohnson5923]

No way Natalie could be an interpreter with her low English skills. You really need to naturally bilingual. Translation of text would be a bit easier, but it certainly doesn't pay well.

[@whocares2.039]

I was thinking the same thing. Natalie is nowhere near fluent in English and Interpreters require much more than being bilingual but I honestly don't think Trish has any idea what she's talking about anyway.

[@thedudeabides5695]

@@princesstelevision67 Trish is Trailer-Trash

[@evahomolova7940]

hi, professional freelance interpreter from Slovak (similar to Ukranian) to English and German....it is not as easy as you might think :D :D just speaking English is not nearly enough, we study 5 years to get Masters degrees just in interpreting techniques...from watching Natalie, I dont really see her doing or wanting the job...interpreters need to understand a lot of background, be passionate about the language, literature and culture and be sensitive to nuance, be exact and in control... our goal is to be invisible in the communication, not draw attention like actors (as she was), even though we are on stage next to them :) that is why therapy with professional interpreter can work, just have to find a really trained one :D

[@catspajamas2961]

(Outside of the legal system) Choosing not to answer a question someone asks you does not mean there's anything wrong with you, especially when that person is bellowing harshly at you and has been emotionally and physically abusing you.

[@fozzakawadom1482]

Would have helped if Mike had gone out to the truck to talk to Natalie - without his mother.

[@lagomorph770]

The umbilical cord couldn't stretch that far

[@lanagustafson2905]

And sat down next to her like “hey I’m sorry to see you upset. I want to help you”. But he really doesn’t seem to care about her feelings

[@LydiaLyon]

Why is Mike on a mission to be in this "cool kids" club with his mom? They even gang up on Natalie, as if it wasn't his own decision to marry her in the end. I'm confused. 😅

[@asunnywebb]

There are no innocents in this love story. No one has clean hands and everyone has some responsibility.

[@bashmeesh]

"Love" feels like a stretch lol but I agree.

[@shescalledirina]

If I had two people laying into me that way and one of them yelling at me that way, I'd shut down too. It's clear they just want to "win" rather than understand so what's the point? I could say anything and they'd turn it around. Edit: actually I think Natalie didn't want to repeat because of the cameras and the possibility of them turning around everything she says.

[@thelivingrisi7233]

This is what Anfisa said they do. She also said they made her sit with her legs up on the couch during some filmings so she looks spoiled.

[@ClintSevilla]

Mike’s mother couldn’t think of one thing she did to Natalie? That is a dishonest person. You break up someone’s wedding the day before and you attempted in different ways to stop it, but you cannot think of one thing you ever did to Natalie. Her mother must make amazing scarves to think that would mend such a slight.

[@hl91666]

I an not a big fan of Natalie but I don't think it is impossible that Trish did call her a hooker, we watched Trish needle Natalie repeatedly over dinner (by laughing about her being too old for kids), at the "meat store", during the wood stacking and in her house when Natalie stepped on a nail. Mike was in the room/next to them during all of the mom's crappy comments and not only said nothing but then towered over her and got in her space while she was in the back of the truck. Trish doing the "Oh I don't know whhhaaatt I didddd" is super triggering to me because my mother in law does the same thing- tons of snippy needly comments over a long period of time and if anyone reacts at all she is automatically the victim. Also- TLC does this sometimes, I imagine we will likely see the hooker comment at the tell all if it happened.

[@hl91666]

Also, I think Natalie knew if she started responding in the moment that the situation would escalate (which it did seem to when she started responding) I can understand why she may feel like not wanting to escalate while she is wedged in a back seat with both her husband and his mom standing in the door over her.

[@tracey6378]

Yes my father in law also does this! Subtle comments that they can deny the true motive behind it. And if you try confronting them you either triangulate, look crazy, or both.

[@luvbutchfeetpix.1086]

I'm pretty sure that when Mike came into the kitchen and groped His wife like Trump did random Women. Trish made him leave her alone and go outside. Trish probably said " Don't let him treat you like a Hooker ! " And Natalie turned it around on her, not Mike and she only heard " Your Mom called me Hooker " PURE SPECULATION... that makes sense. End of story

[@BeckBeckGo]

My mom does this too. So I saw it right away.

[@n.Lenice]

Natalie threw that engagement ring back at Mike and his switch was flipped from that moment on 😲

[@formicaforever]

100 percent agree. That was when he seemed to be done with the relationship and it's been a back and forth hurting each other. Both seem to not be able to let go of hurts and just keeps getting worse. It's past the point of repair if they can't work out the past and move on

[@n.Lenice]

@@formicaforever Yep, I think he's been getting her back and feeding his burised ego the entire time: acting totally indifferent with her, withholding the ring, calling off the wedding last minute; all that was to humiliate her, make her gravel and sweat. He more than likely was at least emotionally cheating on her (naked pics from 'friends'), but it may have been more. In the beginning, he 'seemed' to be a very nice, open and emotionally available man up until THAT point - which was obviously WAY OUT of his comfort zone. When she disrespected him like that (on national television too!) he 'turned off' and it was over right then, in my opinion.

[@ang_ro]

When someone has been gaslighting you it's pretty difficult to tell them what's wrong because you know they'll likely invalidate what you say

[@ClintSevilla]

Mike is always trying to say it is Natalie’s problem. Even his mom does it. Therefore, why would anyone think Natalie explaining anything would go positively

[@nyxnecrodragon4256]

Mike's mum: "It's not disrespectful to try to help you" Mike's mum 15 seconds later: "Giver her $5,000 and send her back to Ukraine" As for 'Consider the source' that to me is a very indirect insult to where Natalie comes from and how she was raised it's a socially acceptable way of saying "what did you expect from someone who is not American".

[@crazycrackinchick]

This!!! Its just plain xenophobia. Trisha is older so cold war era mentality is a factor but it's still wrong & uncomfortable as hell to hear her say it so confidently

[@angelalurtz3638]

When I hear "Consider the source" I take it as the phrase "Consider the source and disregard the remark", meaning essentially that Natalie is a person whose opinion is not to be valued. I had a friend who said that all the time when people who didn't know her had something critical to say. In this situation, in reference to her son's wife, I would hear that as a major belittlement and disrespect.

[@evelynoprea6665]

There is definitely a language barrier situation here... Natalie can’t express herself properly and Mike and the mom take advantage of that and pretend they don’t understand her... 😒

[@asunnywebb]

Remember how in love these two were when we first met them and he visited her? It was so promising. Watching them slowly kill their relationship when it could've been so easily helped along the way with minimal therapy has been really hard to watch.

[@shuddle82]

They weren't in love, just in lust and she saw a way to get to the US to become a STAR. LOL. When the neighbor told her how beautiful she was when she was dressing for the wedding she said "Yes, I know I am" this woman has a VERY inflated opinion of herself!!!

[@namuseraici]

It's always so sad when this happens... I agree with you. It's so horrible how people's past traumas keep hurting them for years and years.

[@damolaa1599]

I'm so glad Natalie stood up for herself. Mike and his mom just ganged up on her and that was unfair. It's insane to me how Mike and his mom say that nothing has gone on when Natalie has stated what is bothering her.

[@sunny-pe2uo]

Mike is never a good husbamd. Treats his wife like a combative enemy

[@musingwanderer2765]

He’s not even a good person🙄 so passive aggressive, avoiding and dodgy nude pics received and half naked in friends house

[@rosyf123]

I’m here for the rare eye rolls

[@diaryofanotdgirl89]

Was waiting for you to get to this point. I am a survivor of domestic abuse for 17 years and felt very triggered. The way Mike and Trish physically stood over her when she was in the car is already problematic. She seemed to disassociate when they were throwing questions and demanding answers immediately from Natalie. It’s hard to think clearly when backed into a corner and being surrounded by two huge angry people. Also how ironic is it that the same man who has spent an entire season mumbling “I dunno” suddenly grows a backbone because mummy is next to him and expects her to respond fully on the spot. If you didn’t know any different you’d think Mike and Trish were in a relationship and Natalie was the naughty kid they were berating. Disgusting behaviour from both of them and Trish saying ship her back!!! You kidding?? Nahhhhhh they’re awful people.

[@musingwanderer2765]

Mike is so hostile to Natalie that it’s unbearable! Talking down to her, condescending words “ what’s your malfunction”, “ All your imaginations etc” , she’s so attack at this point, poor thing! She need someone her corner to attack them back by listing how terrible they behave in this trip 😹

[@senarobinson7839]

Mike and Trish are the major malfunction.

[@diaryofanotdgirl89]

Can we all take a moment and remember how Natalie’s mother treated Mike….. what a difference….. the love she showed Mike was beautiful. Trish could lead a thing or two from her.

[@Fit_pharmacist]

Great observation!

[@thelivingrisi7233]

Ugh. She didn't even know what happened between Mike and Nat that time, she just instantly hugged him when she saw he's upset and let him cry on her shoulder. Now he let's his mom emotionally abuse his wife.

[@FabiolaRVela]

She even treated him better than Natalie 😅

[@diaryofanotdgirl89]

@@FabiolaRVela ikr 🙈

[@luvbutchfeetpix.1086]

Don't kid yourself. She wanted him to take her and go to America , so she can Leave a Communist country. Get real. I would smile and coo to get out of Putin's way too. It meant nothing and was part of the plan.

[@tinktaylor444]

Natalie divorced her second husband when he went bankrupt. Her admitted life goal on film has been to get herself to America and become a star. She never ever intended to stay there with Mike in the first place. She has left Mike and now posed for Maxim, been confirmed as a cast member for 90 Day the Single Life, has had cosmetic surgery and is pursuing her dream. I just can't watch any more of them! I wish them all happiness and peace in their lives.

[@luvbutchfeetpix.1086]

THANK YOU FOR THIS INFO Tink ! I've been saying all along she is an Opportunist just like Julia and her saying on camera she will get her way no matter what !

[@perit7140]

The mum was telling her to work and do house chores, indirectly saying that’s she’s doing nothing and is just using Mike. That’s what triggered Natalie, also she was being passive aggressive to Natalie ever since she met her, with her little digs and telling her what to do like she’s a child.

[@nobordersforlove6385]

Excuse me but where on earth is being an interpreter considered a bad or shameful career? That's a complex field of studies just like journalism, psychology or maths. It takes 5 years of learning linguistics, including grammar, phonetics, history of languages etc. It is not like any bilingual person can become a translator all of a sudden. It's a difficult job requiring special skills, knowledge and experience. And for sure Natalie's level of English is not good enough to be in interpreter, to say the least. Who said that she is qualified to do that kind of job? And even if she was, where on earth would she find a job of an interpreter in Sequim? Is it really the easiest job to find in the US? Even in the suburbs? Are there many tourists from Russia or Ukraine visiting Sequim who may need an interpreter? I doubt it. FYI, an interpreter performs oral translations. The one who does it in a written form is called a translator. And even then, how many vacancies for a translator are there in a town like Sequim? Is Trish out of her mind to make up such BS? Why the heck do Americans think that anyone who speaks 2 languages can translate? That is so disrespectful to professionals interpreters. That's like telling a hairdresser to be a practicing therapist without a license because they are "such good psychologists". In comparison, Brandon actually sounds more reasonable now accusing Julia of speaking English not well enough to be a wedding planner.

[@CariRuth]

Hmm I didn’t think Natalie was knocking the whole profession. I figured she was more offended because it’s a path that just doesn’t suit her personality, values, or goals at all.

[@astrobymina36]

Mike is def gaslighting Nathalie in this clip. I know that term gets over-used and misused, but every time Mike says "what did my mom even say to you?" even I'm thinking "wait, I'm confused. Do I remember correctly what happened?" Nathalie might be genuinely confused why Mike and his mom keep saying "what did I say? what did i say?" like they have no idea. especially, with the language barrier, it might make Nathalie question her own memory and understanding.

[@vercoda9997]

I have mortal neighbours - the loathsome students who live next door - with whom I've better chemistry and more prospects than This couple. I have literally no idea what they're doing together.

[@seashells1460]

I totally get why Natalie shut down and didn't want to answer the question, because she already had!! And the fact Mike kept ignoring that and acting like Natalie was the only person wrong in the matter. So unbelievably hurtful and frustrating for them to gang up on her like that. Idk yeah Dr Kirk is right I really wanna take Natalie's side here. Maybe cuz I'm a woman? Also I hold some contempt towards my bf and his mother because he fails to stand up to her at times. Especially when she is laying into me in a way I feel is uncalled for. Also the comment about give her money and send her back....ew. I know she was heated but still.

[@kristinekemper2899]

Kirk- I think Natalie is still working through a language barrier, which puts her at a big disadvantage in these tense situations where communication is really delicate. Mike really has a lot of power in these situations because he has the upper hand linguistically. I think your assessment of Natalie's communication in these situations could be more generous given these factors. I love your content though, please don't stop making these videos!!!

[@asunnywebb]

I cannot imagine, without being asked, telling another grown person, what they should do with their life. That's presumptuous and entitled. Interestingly because I feel this way when random people tell me how I should have my dogs groomed online, it makes me think that social media is at least partially to blame for people feeling entitled to share their opinion on every aspect of everyone else's lives. Apparently some of us now think our opinion is far more valuable than it is. No one asked. If Natalie went to her and said I'm trying to plan my life, what do you think, then sure. But she didn't.

[@luvbutchfeetpix.1086]

Just like what you're doing Sunny ? Heaven forbid ! Hypocrite Much ? And WTF is wrong with grooming your Dogs ? If Random people are suggesting you NEED to groom your dogs, that would suggest your dogs are filthy and need more looking after. If I noticed your Children were unkept and unbathed, I would report you to CPS ! Mere Speculation LOL

[@catspajamas2961]

Mike and Trish both used the Thanksgiving trip as a means to get revenge on Natalie while she had no way to escape. With how Mike technically assaulted her by throwing logs at her and all the creepy intimidation Mike and Trish were engaging in, it would have made sense for Natalie to call the Ukrainian Embassy. She said that she told her mother "everything" as a warning to them that if anything happened to her, that her mother knew what they did, probably more than what was recorded.

[@nancykalman9232]

I had a mother-in-law exactly like Mike’s mom! She always let me know I wasn’t welcome & that her son could have married “better!” Some of it was actually spoken & some of it was her endless rude attitude! Never once did she say, “It’s nice to meet u! It’s nice to have u here!” I was young & terribly shy & afraid to speak up to her. In retrospect, I should have told my husband that I’m NOT going there if his mother can’t b kind & gracious!!! But I grew up in a family where I wasn’t allowed to say what I was thinking & feeling, without a punishment accordingly.....

[@stellannie86]

Reality TV -participants are usually allowed to take their mics of when they go to the bathroom. Maybe the mom somehow took advantage of that. Something that popped into my head was that she could've been talking on the phone with a friend of hers and talking about Natalie. I wouldn't put it past her.

[@27blackkitty]

While I’m sure that Trish thinks she is a hooker, I have serious doubt she called her that. 1. Television like this LOVES to see and create drama, so I find it hard to believe that production didn’t catch that exchange on camera. 2. We all know Natalie is the type of person that thrives on bringing up problematic situations as “take that!” when she feels slighted - no matter who the person is or what the situation is. So I find it interesting that she completely refused on confronting Trish, unless it didn’t happen. 3. Once again, very interesting how now when confronted about what happened she is now “too high to repeat” what was said. It’s just a simple situation of Natalie is overwhelmed and just wants a reason to leave instead of just admitting that she is done.

[@leanitegmann9486]

I’m sorry the mother is awful I feel for Natalie

[@nathalieiseli-chan4731]

I was soooo looking forward to this one!

[@MelanitaVilla]

Me too! 😊

[@bearswithglasses]

Here's the thing about differentiation- you can understand everyone's point of view while recognizing abusive behavior. Two people ganging up on someone inside a car, screaming at them, yelling obscenities, and asserting that a human being can/should be treated like an object, is visually akin to dogs barking at a rabbit cornered in a hole. Nothing about this interaction was okay. Sometimes I think Dr. Honda tries too hard to stay differentiated and ends up not fully addressing problematic behavior.

[@catspajamas2961]

He assumes good intent that is not necessarily there.

[@tracythomas343]

Every time the interpreter thing comes up I just shake my head. It’s not as easy as one might think to be an interpreter. You have to get all kinds of certifications to be one. Just because you speak two languages doesn’t mean you can be an interpreter. 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@brendabarron237]

I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT MIKE PUTS ON A BIG "POWERFUL" GUY ACT AROUND HIS MOM! ENOUGH TIME HAS PAST FOR THESE TWO. BOTH SO IMMATURE AND THE LACK OF SUPPORT FOR EACH OTHER IS SAD. TIME TO REALLY ACCESS WHERE THE "LOVE"IS???

[@patriciamaeanthony3838]

It was not my impression that Nathalie considered the interpreting profession as a step down. She just objected to the mother suggesting a profession about which she knows absolutely nothing. Most people have no understanding of the difference between an interpreter and a translator. In fact, TLC consistently refers to those interpreting as “translators” which they are not. Furthermore, those who are “interpreting” are violating the professional standards and ethical codes repeatedly, making omissions, including their personal opinions, and much more. It isn’t “helpful” to repeatedly suggest a profession that you know nothing.

[@ControlTouchMaster]

Natalie has a right to behave the way she does. Mike doesn’t respect her at all.

[@TheGamingFilly]

I get so, so angry and so, so sad every time I watch this scene. The way Trish pushes her buttons on purpose and then feigns innocence like a textbook bully. The way Mike doesn't give a rat's ass about Natalie's feelings, EVER. The way the two are cornering her, ganging up on her and shouting at her. I didn't think I could ever be made to root for the woman who called her own fiance "low class, low IQ drunk man", yet... here i am. 😩🤦‍♀️

[@RedBunni1024]

Epitome of disrespect Michael?! How about taking her to a butcher shop on purpose to make her uncomfortable. I’m a meat eater but that is so rude and extremely disrespectful!

[@rrdcreates]

I was so disgusted by that - I’m not vegetarian either but I’d never force someone to go with me to a butcher shop, like wtf

[@RedBunni1024]

@@rrdcreates well as I’m learning in therapy myself, not everyone is as respectful and conscientious as you will be to others so you have to lower your expectations for the masses or you’ll constantly be disappointed. Sad but true. But yes to me it was extremely rude like they were purposely poking at her and trying to get a rise out of her.

[@fashionbeautyrocks]

Just discovered this channel and I've binge watched 9 videos... you're absolutely fascinating/entertaining and educational - you'll have millions of subs soon

[@thetransparentjerseygirl]

Mike seems to be comfy having his mom as back up!!!! Smh....Mike is his mother's twin(behavior wise)...watching Mike and Natalie is exhausting at times..he isn't sympathetic to Natalie being upset at all smh Mike & Trish truly lack self awareness!...I can't stand when a person ask why I'm upset and they are very aware of the situation 🤨

[@reena9334]

The producers of 90DF will likely show the conversation between Natalie and Trish during the Tell All. We'll find out then if Trish actually said hooker or something else.

[@johnreed4401]

this was so confusing to me when i first saw the episode.. if my wife came to me and told me my mother had called her a hooker, i would have immediately taken my mother aside and simply asked her if it happened or if it was a misinterpretation.. what Mike did just does'nt make any sense

[@KQueen305]

I just love how he has so much hope people will do the right things😂😂😂😂 it’s inspirational Doc😂😂

[@evanjuleen]

Dang..... Michael and Trish = Colt and Debbie? Working together to alienanate the wife.

[@jennaalden3658]

Ive been waiting ever since I saw this scene to see Dr Honda's reaction. I will say, as someone who experiences emotions to some degree the way Natalie does, that sometimes stonewalling is involuntary. For myself if I were in her shoes being talked to that way, I would be frozen with my thoughts and probably wouldn't be saying anything. I would wait for them to stop yelling because they are really intimidating in their level of excitement in this moment. It would totally overwhelm me and make me unable to process my own thoughts.

[@colombi1anjay]

I think Natalie has never healed from the hurt of Trish trying to break up the wedding. I could see her making up the “hooker” thing.

[@bashmeesh]

Agreed! She might even fully believe it to be true. The past has made her paranoid probably.

[@OksanaOksana1]

Natalie doesn't even try to clarify anything, she just too overwhelmed with her emotional traumas triggered by bad relationship with Mike and his mother. But you cant blame Mike for everything, it's extremely difficult to be around people like her and be a subject for her projections all the time. Plus at this point they already were feed up by each other and their marriage didnt work out, so why would Trish apologies when she sees her son isnt happy with her? who would be honestly?

[@rainstorm571]

Isn’t it shocking that these two used to be amazing to watch when they were in love? Like I feel all the love was lost at the end of the Ukraine trip

[@luvbutchfeetpix.1086]

That's because she's an Actress playing a part. Do You remember Ceasar And the girl who milked him for thousands of Dollars. Russia is a Communist Country, everyone wants to come to America and be free of PUTIN. TRUST & Believe !

[@rorirm]

@@luvbutchfeetpix.1086 She is from Ukraine and it is not a communist country.

[@ClintSevilla]

Natalie was mostly just stating that she didn’t want to be treated a certain way. Mike was acting as if him and his mother did nothing wrong and that Natalie is making everything up. That is not taking sides. Those are facts. If you treat each side equally no matter the circumstance, there will be an imbalance especially when one side can be manipulative. However, if you treat the situation based on the facts, you are not taking sides, but assessing the situation based on what happened. Natalie opening up and saying what she felt most likely would not have went well even if did it in most diplomatic and differentiated way possible. Mike and his mom are not ready to admit that they did anything wrong even when they are calm.

[@thenewmexicantexan]

I was interested by the Pillow Talk episode that covered this scene. Many were on the side of Mike saying Natalie was being a jerk, and many on the side of Natalie saying Mike and his mom were relentlessly rude.... not a lot of in-between. Thanks for showing us both sides, Dr. H!

[@evanjuleen]

"you having a major malfunction" um.. Somebody watches zenon girl of the 21st century. 🤣

[@selins4442]

Zetus lapetus, that's a throwback!

[@gandalf6830]

That was 100% a Full Metal Jacket ref

[@vividwolf6247]

I grew up around a parent who would corner me yell at me tell me I'm crazy or I'm over reacting and judge me and I can relate to Natalie in this moment of feeling frozen in the car afraid to speak expesually with both adults hoovering like that attacking her just puts me on edge. This was very helpful to understand where that comes from for me.

[@el-erso]

The way he was talking to her made me so anxious, I would’ve started crying then and there lol Sounds like being scolded, not like they’re actually open to listening, so whatever you say you already know they’re going to dismiss it

[@Delilah2112]

This situation is intriguing and confusing. The cameras were there and they were all micced up, why not show the footage of Trish calling Natalie a hooker, wouldn't it be good TV drama? And also how is Mike always able to buy her a same-day plane ticket on command whenever they fight

[@politicaltroll8920]

Last season at the tell all, Natalie claimed Tamara told her Mike went to a bachelor party and Tamara said she never said that. Then Mike’s friend Sarah said Natalie called her some pretty bad names and Natalie denied it. I’m betting that Mike’s mom never said it. Mike’s mom was a bit abrasive, but I don’t see her saying that.

[@joywebster2678]

Someone suggested it might have been a conversation about if u aren't interested in working or having babies did you have Mike pay for you to come here just for sex? And Natalie sums that type of comment as she called me a hooker. Ignoring the context no matter how abrasive.

[@reena9334]

They are probably saving that footage for the Tell All.

[@luvbutchfeetpix.1086]

@@politicaltroll8920 I soo agree !

[@Angel-hm9so]

You are assuming it was said when the crew was there. They aren't there every hour of every day.

[@NancyRuthDeenBreakupCoach]

The rare eye roll!! Yesss

[@annieclarf5367]

I think they are actually filming them a lot less frequently than you are imagining. Thus the need to set up scenes. It’s not like the old days where they follow them all the time like on The Osbornes. Production companies all realized it’s a lot cheaper to stage scenes and film less

[@keikowatt-GoldenFairy444]

If you don't speak English as a first language, it's really hard to express the feeling especially when you are faced with anger. Mike is just protecting his mommy, in my opinion. If Trish was not there he may acted differently.

[@shannontrent3702]

Mike is back to 'We/I need to figure stuff out'. Would you get to it already? Dr. Honda, I've been pulling for this couple also. But, whether his mom called Natalie a hooker or not, she told Mike to give her money and send her back to Ukraine. That signals to me that she doesn't like her, just doesn't say it to Natalie.

[@ClintSevilla]

I really think you are missing the manipulative nature of the mom. The mom doesn’t care about Natalie. Period. Calling her a hooker or even apologizing is too much for her. Do you really think the mother would even consider therapy? Honestly? The mother is acting as if she is completely innocent, 😇 an angel. If that is true than why does Mike have so many walls? Mike is extremely close to his mom to the point of calling off a wedding based on her advice and still goes to his mother’s house for an important US holiday even when his mother has so much animosity towards his wife. Really?

[@chanelkouhanim4069]

I didn’t understand what she meant by “Consider the source” either.

[@lagomorph770]

I think she's implying Natalie is crazy/unreasonable

[@luvbutchfeetpix.1086]

@@lagomorph770 She has clearly shown that to be the case. Agreed.

[@jillianb825]

If the 90 day fiancé producers have the “hooker” comment on film or anything they are definitely saving it for the reunion.

[@MissTasseled]

Trish's persistent comments about Natalie becoming an interpreter came off strongly as implying that she is sitting on Mike's neck and not contributing to the marriage. The mom directly stated that she thinks Natalie is not being a good wife to him (apparently the concept of a "good wife" to her is limited to cooking, cleaning, and serving her husband's every whim), and she is only using him to come to America and become a famous tv personality. I was so uncomfortable watching both Trish and Mike gang up on Natalie, screaming in her face, while she was trapped in an enclosed space.

[@lavinder11]

When i saw this, I felt that it's horrible that Mike *only* felt comfortable to speak his mind in front of his mother. He's outspoken amounts his friends and mother, but shuts down when it's just the two of them regularly. It's clear that something about that relationship has changed his personality. Anyway, his tone was hurtful, but I figure that that's 2 or 3 years of pent up frustration.

[@andressalombardo3125]

That was quite hard to watch. I get it that none of them is great at communicating, but it just felt like Natalie was in disadvantage. Mike and the mum both yelling, accusing and disregarding her. No wonder she shut down.

[@selins4442]

Some random thoughts: I understood "consider the source" as a shortened version of "consider that the source of these complaints and accusations is Natalie". The implication is that Natalie is the source of these issues and Natalie is untrustworthy, unreliable, dramatic, etc., so these issues are invalid. Kind of like... getting into a conflict with the boy who called wolf and saying "consider that he's the one who keeps lying about the wolf, he's clearly overdramatic and attention seeking so I can't be in the wrong". I also wouldn't recommend the stonewalling approach Natalie took in ignoring the issue but I also couldn't blame her. Michael ended up yelling things like "my mom did nothing wrong so why are you so angry", and with that being so invalidating and hurtful to hear from your spouse (who should have cared and respected your hurt feelings in regards to the butcher shop, wedding cancellation, etc.), that presents a further issue for you to talk with your spouse separately. Given the issue became Natalie vs. Mike, Natalie vs. Trish, and Natalie vs. Mike & Trish, I can understand why Natalie might have just chosen to shut down, particularly when Mike and Trish didn't seem to want to talk and understand but rather argue and defend (which, to be fair, many people approach conflict with the latter).

[@dianamares7065]

Being an interpreter is not nearly as easy as they think!! Yes, she can communicate in English, but interpreting and translating is just way different

[@deservinglistener245]

It is an insult to interpreters

[@JB_II]

There was a part where Natalie was cooking for the thanksgiving dinner and Mikes mother said ‘you’re a good cooker’. Natalie already pre judging and hating mikes mother probably either heard ‘you’re a good hooker’, or used it as a springboard to claim she was insulted by Trish. Either way Natalie acting like a child and not speaking up to clear the situation, or defend herself is her just placing the attention on herself. I think Mike is just tired and fed up with her attitude. Either way, Mike needs to take control of the situation better as he is clearly stuck in the middle.

[@shescalledirina]

Oof see I would read into it too because an English speaker would say you're a good cook. Cooker is the thing you cook on, cook is the person.